Palin won't call abortion clinic bombers terrorists

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

No, sir, that is not what she said. I know that's what Brian Williams was hoping for, but it isn't what she said.

really? when she refused to use the term "terrorist" what exactly does that say?

your defense of palin in this matter reveals a blindness on your part.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

oh, yes, if palin was found to have served on a board, or entertained in the home of, a person who in their past bombed an abortion clinic, and palin also denounced that act of the abortion bombing, all of which is the case with obama and ayers, I'd say that palin's association with that terrorist isn't important.

the question tho is if she would call the abortion clinic bomber a terrorist, like she is fond of saying about ayers.

I know what the question is, and I won't defend her avoidance of the term in this case. I'll defend her reply, which seemed to associate Ayers, abortion clinic bombers, and all who would destroy innocent American lives.

But I wasn't clear till now that you are willing to call Ayers a terrorist, and recognize Obama's ties, and are just writing it off as "in the past." That, in itself seems like a bad idea to me. But While we are parsing personal lexicography for political purpose, you do know that Obama and Ayers were more than political "associates," they were more like political "allies", right?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I know what the question is, and I won't defend her avoidance of the term in this case. I'll defend her reply, which seemed to associate Ayers, abortion clinic bombers, and all who would destroy innocent American lives.

But I wasn't clear till now that you are willing to call Ayers a terrorist, and recognize Obama's ties, and are just writing it off as "in the past." That, in itself seems like a bad idea to me. But While we are parsing personal lexicography for political purpose, you do know that Obama and Ayers were more than political "associates," they were more like political "allies", right?

I should be clearer, ayers never bombed any buildings, and was not responsible for any bombs that took innocent lives.

I would say that ayers associated with terrorists.

as for being "allies", I guess that is accurate. they did work on initiatives together.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

I should be clearer, ayers never bombed any buildings, and was not responsible for any bombs that took innocent lives.

oh, so abortion bombers are not terrorists if no one dies?

''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough. '' Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970's as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, ...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9679C8B63

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

has he been asked the question?

edit: btw ayers never bombed anybody or anything.

Hitler didn't gas jews and Bin Laden didn't fly planes into the WTC either. I can't believe you honestly would try to make that distinction.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

oh, so abortion bombers are not terrorists if no one dies?

where did you pull that one from?

I think I know....

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hitler didn't gas jews and Bin Laden didn't fly planes into the WTC either. I can't believe you honestly would try to make that distinction.

what? you're comparing the weather underground to hitler and bin laden?

wow, you've really gone off the deep end.

pull yourself out of it before it's too late....

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

where did you pull that one from?

yeah, it came from questoning some poster who said that abortion clinic bombers and the weather underground are the same kind of thing, and that Ayers is not a terrorist because no one died in his bombing, but that Palin is a boob (roughly paraphrasing) because she won't apply that term to abortion clinic bombers.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

what? you're comparing the weather underground to hitler and bin laden?

wow, you've really gone off the deep end.

pull yourself out of it before it's too late....

Mr. Ayers, who in 1970 was said to have summed up the Weatherman philosophy as: ''Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that's where it's really at,''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...5AC0A9679C8B63

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

yeah, it came from questoning some poster who said that abortion clinic bombers and the weather underground are the same kind of thing, and that Ayers is not a terrorist because no one died in his bombing, but that Palin is a boob (roughly paraphrasing) because she won't apply that term to abortion clinic bombers.

you're really adept at making up statements and putting words in people's posts that are not there....

ayers was a member of a terrorist organization, hence he was a terrorist.

the part about palin could be right, although I never called her stupid.

[dude1394]

I'm not necessarily comparing Ayers to BinLaden/Hitler...but arguing against your ridiculous statement

edit: btw ayers never bombed anybody or anything.

Manson didn't kill anyone either. Since when does someone directing/assisting actions not have responsiblity for them.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

I'm not necessarily comparing Ayers to BinLaden/Hitler...but arguing against your ridiculous statement

Manson didn't kill anyone either. Since when does someone directing/assisting actions not have responsiblity for them.

dude, manson did kill people.

you did compare ayers to hitler and bin laden.

the complicity of ayers to the people in the weather underground who actually carried out the bombings and the attacks on police was never established. what is known is he was not involved in the activities, which he himself has volunteered. did he support these people in their acts? yes.

[Murphy3]

Yes, he made a comparison.. but not the one you're trying to make. You're smarter than that.

didn't Ayers basically admit that he was guilty?

[rmacomic]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Yes, he made a comparison.. but not the one you're trying to make. You're smarter than that.

didn't Ayers basically admit that he was guilty?

Just jumping in here, but if Ayers is admiting wrong isn't that more than abortion bombers are willing to do.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Do we really want to compare the coherence and thoughtfulness of the replies made by the two vice-presidential candidates? Really?

Joe Biden makes major gaffes virtually every time he speaks. When I see you start to criticize him on a regular basis, then I'll take your criticism of Palin a bit more seriously.

You were saying something, KG, in another thread...about deflecting and dodging?

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

You're missing the point, which is that you only criticize the VP candidate that you oppose.

As you like it.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

you're really adept at making up statements and putting words in people's posts that are not there....

I think that's a fair description of your crazy postings in this thread. When you say things like this

ayers was a member of a terrorist organization, hence he was a terrorist.

right after you say this

I should be clearer, ayers never bombed any buildings, and was not responsible for any bombs that took innocent lives.

I would say that ayers associated with terrorists.

you have to realize that you are not making things clearer.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by rmacomic

Just jumping in here, but if Ayers is admiting wrong isn't that more than abortion bombers are willing to do.

Ayers admitted to the bombings, and said he did not regret doing it, but regrets not doing more. He's quoted in a previous post. I think that's about what the abortion clinic bombers end up doing. Obama's relationship with him continued after he said those things. I don't think Palin has the same relationship with any abortion clinic bomber.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You were saying something, KG, in another thread...about deflecting and dodging?

As you like it.

I was referring to Obama, who is running for President, not a poster on a message board. But anyway, the reason I haven't responded to Mavdog Colmes is that there is no point in arguing with him on this issue. I could waste my time and point out a bunch of Biden's comments that were neither thoughtful nor coherent, but we're not going to get anywhere. He has a blind hatred toward Palin which I've seen evident, unfortunately, in far too many posters on this board.

EDIT: BTW, if you really want some specifics, watch (as but one example) Biden's recent interview with the Orlando TV news anchor which has been discussed in another thread.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

dude, manson did kill people.

You sure about that, him personally...I don't think so.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

EDIT: BTW, if you really want some specifics, watch (as but one example) Biden's recent interview with the Orlando TV news anchor which has been discussed in another thread.

I did watch it, and I did comment on it in the other thread. I have zero idea what your point is. Biden handled that badgering like a seasoned boxer keeping his weak opponent at arm's length. Palin has never faced a barrage like that, but she still gets TKO'ed by the soft punches.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by dude1394

You sure about that, him personally...I don't think so.

I recall manson killed a man before the tate and labianca murders.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

I think that's a fair description of your crazy postings in this thread. When you say things like this

right after you say this

you have to realize that you are not making things clearer.

do you not understand the very clear difference between a personn who themselves bomb and kill versus a person who associates with that person yet does not themselves bomb and kill?

pretty easy point of difference in my view.

[Murphy3]

Yep... iwhich is why Hitler was brought up in comparison.... how many did he actually kill?

Good point as always Mavdog... very, very good point. You're really on a roll. I cannot believe the high quality of intelect that you're showing in this thread. It is 'astounding' to say the least.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

I recall manson killed a man before the tate and labianca murders.

Nah I don't think so. ...It's been alleged that he killed someone before the tate and labianca murders but he's never been charged with it. Manson was a braggart...and I expect that's what he was doing.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I was referring to Obama, who is running for President, not a poster on a message board. But anyway, the reason I haven't responded to Mavdog Colmes is that there is no point in arguing with him on this issue. I could waste my time and point out a bunch of Biden's comments that were neither thoughtful nor coherent, but we're not going to get anywhere. He has a blind hatred toward Palin which I've seen evident, unfortunately, in far too many posters on this board.

EDIT: BTW, if you really want some specifics, watch (as but one example) Biden's recent interview with the Orlando TV news anchor which has been discussed in another thread.

very clear dodge of the question kg, where are the biden responses that are comparable to palin's?

well? if they are so prevalent, bring 'em on.

as chum has pointed out, biden did provide clear and direct answers to the obtuse reporter...

as for the "blind hatred towards palin", that's crock of bs. there are times when I defended her.

when she acts like she did on this issue I'll call her out on it.

does your blind adoration for palin stop you from seeing her faults? apparently so.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Ayers admitted to the bombings, and said he did not regret doing it, but regrets not doing more. He's quoted in a previous post. I think that's about what the abortion clinic bombers end up doing. Obama's relationship with him continued after he said those things. I don't think Palin has the same relationship with any abortion clinic bomber.

nope, he didn't, and it was said in the very story you parsed from earlier:

''Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,'' he writes. But then comes a disclaimer: ''Even though I didn't actually bomb the Pentagon -- we bombed it, in the sense that Weathermen organized it and claimed it.''

[chumdawg]

I guess what I am left to wonder is why the Palin supporters are even bothering anymore.

[Murphy3]

edited for civility

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

do you not understand the very clear difference between a personn who themselves bomb and kill versus a person who associates with that person yet does not themselves bomb and kill?

you said those things about the same person.
I would put into the same category everyone who attempts to destroy innocent American lives. When Ayers puts himself in that category by saying "I don't regret the bombings, I wish we'd done more," I don't see any reason to quibble his way out of it for him.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I did watch it, and I did comment on it in the other thread. I have zero idea what your point is. Biden handled that badgering like a seasoned boxer keeping his weak opponent at arm's length. Palin has never faced a barrage like that, but she still gets TKO'ed by the soft punches.

Biden handled it like a bitter old politician, and I'm shocked that you would call it badgering.

In response to a question about ACORN, he lied and said that Obama's campaign hadn't paid ACORN "one single penny" to register one "single, solitary voter", when in fact they paid ACORN over $800,000.00 for "get-out-the-vote" projects.

In response to a question about Obama's relationship with ACORN, he gave some nonsensical answer about McCain speaking to ACORN and lied by saying that Obama isn't a benefactor of ACORN. You and I both know that Obama told ACORN last December that they would be coming to Washington as soon as he got elected to help him shape the agenda of his Presidency.

In response to a question about Obama's "spread the wealth around" comment, he inexplicably said that the only person spreading the wealth around is George Bush and John McCain's tax policy. He then went on to explain that rich people make more money under George Bush than they did before (of course, they didn't take that money from the middle class, but that wouldn't stop Biden). Talk about lacking "thoughtfulness" and "coherence"! Those are Mavdog's chosen standards for analyzing the way that VP candidates respond to questions by the press, and Biden failed miserably.

In response to the legitimate question about whether "spreading the wealth around" is really Marxism, he actually had the audacity (after a smug "are you joking?" remark) to state that Obama didn't intend to spread the wealth around. Say it ain't so, Joe! Why don't you listen when Obama speaks?

In response to a question about Biden's comments that Obama would be tested and that there would be an international crisis, he lied and said that he said that what he meant was the next President -- regardless of who it was -- would be tested. Of course, any objective listener who heard Biden's prior comments knows this.

When you're listening to Biden talk and you hear him say things like "those are the facts" or "the fact of the matter is", you can pretty well guarantee that either he's about to lie to you or he just did.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

very clear dodge of the question kg, where are the biden responses that are comparable to palin's?

well? if they are so prevalent, bring 'em on.

as chum has pointed out, biden did provide clear and direct answers to the obtuse reporter...

See my response to Chum above. As for some additional examples of Biden's "coherence and thoughtfulness":

• In the primary he said (in reference to Obama) that "the presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training"; upon his selection as VP, he said, "Barack Obama is ready. This is his time."
• He said that we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon.
• He said that Article I of the Constitution defines the powers of the executive branch.
• He said that FDR went on the TV in 1929 after the stock market crashed and told the American people what happened.
• He said, “Look, John’s last-minute economic plan does nothing to tackle the number one job facing the middle class, and it happens to be, as Barack says, a three-letter word: jobs. J-O-B-S.”
• He now famously said that an Obama victory would invite a global crisis because of Obama's naivety. “Mark my words. It will not be six months [after the inauguration] before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy." And, of course, then he told his listeners that he could envision 4-5 scenarios or somesuch, and in a separate appearance told the audience to “gird your loins.”

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Biden handled it like a bitter old politician, and I'm shocked that you would call it badgering.

In response to a question about ACORN, he lied and said that Obama's campaign hadn't paid ACORN "one single penny" to register one "single, solitary voter", when in fact they paid ACORN over $800,000.00 for "get-out-the-vote" projects.

In response to a question about Obama's relationship with ACORN, he gave some nonsensical answer about McCain speaking to ACORN and lied by saying that Obama isn't a benefactor of ACORN. You and I both know that Obama told ACORN last December that they would be coming to Washington as soon as he got elected to help him shape the agenda of his Presidency.

In response to a question about Obama's "spread the wealth around" comment, he inexplicably said that the only person spreading the wealth around is George Bush and John McCain's tax policy. He then went on to explain that rich people make more money under George Bush than they did before (of course, they didn't take that money from the middle class, but that wouldn't stop Biden). Talk about lacking "thoughtfulness" and "coherence"! Those are Mavdog's chosen standards for analyzing the way that VP candidates respond to questions by the press, and Biden failed miserably.

In response to the legitimate question about whether "spreading the wealth around" is really Marxism, he actually had the audacity (after a smug "are you joking?" remark) to state that Obama didn't intend to spread the wealth around. Say it ain't so, Joe! Why don't you listen when Obama speaks?

In response to a question about Biden's comments that Obama would be tested and that there would be an international crisis, he lied and said that he said that what he meant was the next President -- regardless of who it was -- would be tested. Of course, any objective listener who heard Biden's prior comments knows this.

When you're listening to Biden talk and you hear him say things like "those are the facts" or "the fact of the matter is", you can pretty well guarantee that either he's about to lie to you or he just did.

I am extraordinarily disappointed--and even discouraged--by your hackish partisan repsonse to the question. I had hoped that we could have a substantive discussion about the issues at play. It's clear that you have no interest in that.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I am extraordinarily disappointed--and even discouraged--by your hackish partisan repsonse to the question. I had hoped that we could have a substantive discussion about the issues at play. It's clear that you have no interest in that.

Deflect and dodge -- as you like it.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Deflect and dodge -- as you like it.

You really don't have anything, do you?

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

You really don't have anything, do you?

Dodge and deflect indeed. Anything to avoid having to substantively respond.

[Epitome22]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Biden handled it like a bitter old politician, and I'm shocked that you would call it badgering.

In response to a question about ACORN, he lied and said that Obama's campaign hadn't paid ACORN "one single penny" to register one "single, solitary voter", when in fact they paid ACORN over $800,000.00 for "get-out-the-vote" projects.

In response to a question about Obama's relationship with ACORN, he gave some nonsensical answer about McCain speaking to ACORN and lied by saying that Obama isn't a benefactor of ACORN. You and I both know that Obama told ACORN last December that they would be coming to Washington as soon as he got elected to help him shape the agenda of his Presidency.

In response to a question about Obama's "spread the wealth around" comment, he inexplicably said that the only person spreading the wealth around is George Bush and John McCain's tax policy. He then went on to explain that rich people make more money under George Bush than they did before (of course, they didn't take that money from the middle class, but that wouldn't stop Biden). Talk about lacking "thoughtfulness" and "coherence"! Those are Mavdog's chosen standards for analyzing the way that VP candidates respond to questions by the press, and Biden failed miserably.

In response to the legitimate question about whether "spreading the wealth around" is really Marxism, he actually had the audacity (after a smug "are you joking?" remark) to state that Obama didn't intend to spread the wealth around. Say it ain't so, Joe! Why don't you listen when Obama speaks?

In response to a question about Biden's comments that Obama would be tested and that there would be an international crisis, he lied and said that he said that what he meant was the next President -- regardless of who it was -- would be tested. Of course, any objective listener who heard Biden's prior comments knows this.

When you're listening to Biden talk and you hear him say things like "those are the facts" or "the fact of the matter is", you can pretty well guarantee that either he's about to lie to you or he just did.

These were not in any way "legitimate questions" they were hackish to the nth degree. The woman in question is married to a GOP media consultant, and in stark contrast to the completely unprofessional interview with Biden, there's another video of her interviewing McCain circulating where she just tosses up a series of softballs.

I could always tell we never agreed much on anything but I always had a high degree of respect for you. However, although you may not be as childish as some other people here, you have shown yourself to be no less of a shameless partisan hack lacking in both shame and scruples. And on that front, it will make watching the continued demise of your party that much sweeter.

[Burn this City]

You guys fight like an old married couple...

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Epitome22

These were not in any way "legitimate questions" they were hackish to the nth degree. The woman in question is married to a GOP media consultant, and in stark contrast to the completely unprofessional interview with Biden, there's another video of her interviewing McCain circulating where she just tosses up a series of softballs.

I suppose we could have this argument all day long. You say she's hackish because she doesn't lob Biden softballs. I could make the same rather obvious point about Charlie Gibson and the disparate treatment he gave Biden and Palin. Either way, Biden's responses to the questions were telling.

I could always tell we never agreed much on anything but I always had a high degree of respect for you. However, although you may not be as childish as some other people here, you have shown yourself to be no less of a shameless partisan hack lacking in both shame and scruples. And on that front, it will make watching the continued demise of your party that much sweeter.

See, this is the problem with the Political Arena, and the reason I'll probably take a hiatus soon. It's impossible to have a discussion without people getting offended and taking things personally. Posters that I really like (like Mavdog, Chumdawg, and yes, you) start talking about how they "had" respect for me, etc.

Sorry you feel the way you do.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Dodge and deflect indeed. Anything to avoid having to substantively respond.

As I said, you've got nothing.

It is sad to see you reduced to this.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

See, this is the problem with the Political Arena, and the reason I'll probably take a hiatus soon. It's impossible to have a discussion without people getting offended and taking things personally. Posters that I really like (like Mavdog, Chumdawg, and yes, you) start talking about how they "had" respect for me, etc.

If you have lost respect, it's your own fault. Don't try to blame it on others. Be a big boy, KG.

Take a hiatus. Maybe it will do you good.