Palin won't call abortion clinic bombers terrorists

[Silk Smoov]

Palin won't call abortion clinic bombers terrorists

Palin won't call abortion clinic bombers terrorists
Apparently, not all domestic terrorists are created equal. At least, not according to Sarah Palin, who got tongue-tied trying to get away from questions posed to her by NBC's Brian Williams Thursday night. Williams was specifically wondering about her description of former Weather Underground member Bill Ayers and whether she'd extend that description to other people who've used bombs against civilian targets in the United States.

Here's the exchange between the two. Video, via Think Progress, is below.
VIDEO: Palin won't call abortion clinic bombers terrorists
Apparently, not all domestic terrorists are created equal. At least, not according to Sarah Palin, who got tongue-tied trying to get away from questions posed to her by NBC's Brian Williams Thursday night. Williams was specifically wondering about her description of former Weather Underground member Bill Ayers and whether she'd extend that description to other people who've used bombs against civilian targets in the United States.

Here's the exchange between the two. Video, via Think Progress, is below.
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hu1NeI4M1k

WILLIAMS: Are we changing -- it's been said that to give it a vaguely post-9/11 hint, using that word that we don't normally associate with domestic crimes. Are we changing the definition? Are the people who set fire to American cities during the '60s terrorists in -- under this definition? Is an abortion clinic bomber a terrorist under this definition, Governor?

PALIN: There's no question that Bill Ayers, via his own admittance, was one who sought to destroy our U.S. Capitol and our Pentagon. That is a domestic terrorist. There's no question there. Now, others who would want to engage in harming innocent Americans or facilities that it would be unacceptable to -- I don't know if you're going to use the word terrorist there, but it's unacceptable, and it would not be condoned, of course, on our watch. But I don't know -- if what you're asking is if I regret referring to Bill Ayers as an unrepentant domestic terrorist, I don't regret characterizing him as that.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm just asking what other categories you would put in there, abortion clinic bombers, protesters in cities where fires were started, Molotov cocktails were thrown, people died?

PALIN: I would put in that category of Bill Ayers anyone else who would seek to campaign, to destroy our United States Capitol and our Pentagon and would seek to destroy innocent Americans.

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Palin is just showing us exactly why she is not the right choice for a Senator, Governor, Mayor, VP, President or even a Girls Scout Leader..

So, by her definition, the 911 attackers were not terrorists, because they did not say they were terrorists.?....GO figure...

[Kirobaito]

Thank you for bringing this up. What is there to say to this? Not only does she show a profound lack of understanding of Bill Ayers, she shows that in her nutjob world, it's only those people who are terrorists. People who bomb empty buildings to protest the Vietnam War and a government that refused to listen are unrepentant domestic terrorists. Those who bomb abortion clinics aren't? Good gosh, Sarah Palin, there is no end to your idiocy.

Either both are terrorists, or neither are. They fall under the category of those who use violent means to achieve political ends. That is either terrorist or it isn't. You cannot pick and choose.

I am so happy your political career will be over in a week, you brainless, pathetic human being.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

Thank you for bringing this up. What is there to say to this? Not only does she show a profound lack of understanding of Bill Ayers, she shows that in her nutjob world, it's only those people who are terrorists. People who bomb empty buildings to protest the Vietnam War and a government that refused to listen are unrepentant domestic terrorists. Those who bomb abortion clinics aren't? Good gosh, Sarah Palin, there is no end to your idiocy.

Either both are terrorists, or neither are. They fall under the category of those who use violent means to achieve political ends. That is either terrorist or it isn't. You cannot pick and choose.

I am so happy your political career will be over in a week, you brainless, pathetic human being.

Notice how so many skip over this thread? This thread hurts, and hits them on the core issue at hand. There is no way to spin this one around, not only we have her on print, we have her on tape, as McCain sat there.

[Murphy3]

Umm, she says it's unacceptable. I can agree that there's a difference... a huge difference. I won't justify either by any stretch of the imagination. But, I can come alot closer to understanding the thinking that goes on in someone's mind that would bomb an abortion clinic. That's a little too extreme for my tastes... However, I wouldn't shed a tear for any of the doctors performing the surgeries... or any of the nurses.. or any of the patients. No, I wouldn't be happy about it,... but not emotional enough to shed a tear.

I value human life..I just value some alot less than others.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Notice how so many skip over this thread? This thread hurts, and hits them on the core issue at hand. There is no way to spin this one around, not only we have her on print, we have her on tape, as McCain sat there.

It is easy to spin.

She doesn't consider the killing of mass murders (and those helping them) to be domestic terrorist.

All you have to do is consider the unborn to be human beings, and it is EASY to see her point. Regardless of what the "laws" of man are.

Men go through an awful lot to justify their sin. Bombing these clinics is definitely killing, and that is a sin. Saving the lives of possibly hundreds of unborn children --- I'll let God decide on the punishment and crime here. Killing these unborn children -- I consider to be a sin as well. Should they kill to stop the killing -- BE CAREFUL HERE, because I can argue easily both sides of this one with mans laws, and the bible.

Is there a bill to be paid to man (government), sure. Might their be a reward in heaven -- I don't know that either way. It awaits to be seen.

Justifying sin is just that though, and doesn't make it "right" by Gods laws.

[Murphy3]

She said that it's 'unacceptable'. She didn't say that it wasn't a sin to blow up the abortion clinics... unless I somehow missed that part.

I'm sure she believes that it's unacceptable.. just a little less unacceptable than abortions. She probably thinks like I do. You don't want to see anyone die. It's obviously not a good thing. But, you have less sympathy for someone that dies in the middle of aborting a baby. That doesn't mean that you're trying to justify anything. It just means that you feel worse for the aborted child dying than you do for the doctor dying that performs abortions.

It's perfectly logical.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

She said that it's 'unacceptable'. She didn't say that it wasn't a sin to blow up the abortion clinics... unless I somehow missed that part.

I'm sure she believes that it's unacceptable.. just a little less unacceptable than abortions. She probably thinks like I do. You don't want to see anyone die. It's obviously not a good thing. But, you have less sympathy for someone that dies in the middle of aborting a baby. That doesn't mean that you're trying to justify anything. It just means that you feel worse for the aborted child dying than you do for the doctor dying that performs abortions.

It's perfectly logical.

Farther proves the theory out there on you. IMO

I am pretty sure NOBODY on here agrees with your last two posts.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

She said that it's 'unacceptable'. She didn't say that it wasn't a sin to blow up the abortion clinics... unless I somehow missed that part.

I'm sure she believes that it's unacceptable.. just a little less unacceptable than abortions. She probably thinks like I do. You don't want to see anyone die. It's obviously not a good thing. But, you have less sympathy for someone that dies in the middle of aborting a baby. That doesn't mean that you're trying to justify anything. It just means that you feel worse for the aborted child dying than you do for the doctor dying that performs abortions.

It's perfectly logical.

No argument from me. I believe the right to life far outweighs the right to choose to kill for personal convenience.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Farther proves the theory out there on you. IMO

I am pretty sure NOBODY on here agrees with your last two posts.

Well your opinion continues to be pretty much worth...not much. As the post above testifies to.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

No argument from me. I believe the right to life far outweighs the right to choose to kill for personal convenience.

Your standard endorsement on this is kinda disheartening since you claim to know the bible so well. Clearly the issue on being afforded rights at conception or birth is an issue that can be supported both ways. But, to put a value a human life according to how they feel about this issue is inhumane at best.

[Mavdog]

it is illogical to differentiate between those in the weather underground who used violence in an attempt to stop the vietnam war and those who use violence to stop the availability of abortions.

anyone who argues they are different is just fooling themselves. they aren't.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well your opinion continues to be pretty much worth...not much. As the post above testifies to.

Should any of us be surprised at your response?
It is sad to hear you put a value on human life for Pro-Choice believers according to your beliefs on abortion. This in fact makes you inhumane in my book. It is very clear that Pro-Choice believers are afforded human rights.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Should any of us be surprised at your response?
It is sad to hear you put a value on human life for Pro-Choice believers according to your beliefs on abortion. This in fact makes you inhumane in my book. It is very clear that Pro-Choice believers are afforded human rights.

You have a problem with actual facts. You stated no one agrees, then someone does...I didn't even respond whether I did or did not, just noted that your opinion on this like so many others imo, is quite faulty.

And you talk as if "any of us" is some signficatn part of the board that agrees with you, you're opinion on that is faulty also.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by dude1394

You have a problem with actual facts. You stated no one agrees, then someone does...I didn't even respond whether I did or did not, just noted that your opinion on this like so many others imo, is quite faulty.

And you talk as if "any of us" is some signficatn part of the board that agrees with you, you're opinion on that is faulty also.

Actually, I just baited a couple of people in so that we all know who the real illogical thinkers are

Count me in on the ones who bait on abortion bombers being terrorists...LMAO!!!! LMAO!!!!
I see you started your back track once you figured out I baited you in.. LMAO..

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Farther proves the theory out there on you. IMO

I am pretty sure NOBODY on here agrees with your last two posts.

Here is the bait in bold above..They say things come in 3's...The bait was set out to see if 92Dad and Dude would take the bait and show their true inhumane side. Yes, they did, so I am waiting on that third person as well. Any takers?

I am glad to see that we only have two inhumane posters here.

On a serious note: Palin was chosen as Republican VP running mate.

OK, I guess I was not serious, OR "Was I ?"

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

it is illogical to differentiate between those in the weather underground who used violence in an attempt to stop the vietnam war and those who use violence to stop the availability of abortions.

anyone who argues they are different is just fooling themselves. they aren't.

I'm saying that it's different...not justified..but slightly different.
That's all.

I make distinctions between abortion and executing someone on death row. I don't remotely agree with either. However, I'm sickened less by someone being executed that's on death row than by the act of abortion. That does not mean that either is right in my mind. But, I do see the difference.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Silk Smoov

Your standard endorsement on this is kinda disheartening since you claim to know the bible so well. Clearly the issue on being afforded rights at conception or birth is an issue that can be supported both ways. But, to put a value a human life according to how they feel about this issue is inhumane at best.

humane to which life?

You state you are against the way that Blacks were treated, early United States -- I am appalled as well.

If the laws of man (government) said that Blacks weren't human -- so it was OK to kill them -- if they wanted to because they CHOSE to -- Would it still make it OK? (No it isn't)
Would you be appalled if someone killed the person who was doing all the killing of Blacks? (I don't think you would)

Would it be OK, to bring all those people who killed at that time to justice?

If your answer is YES, as you have so proudly spoken -- then is there a reason we shouldn't be bringing all abortion doctors, nurses, and those who have had them to justice?
I mean, you value life don't you. All life.......no matter if it is different than you.

We have to be very very careful here. I don't condone or think it is right to kill abortion doctors, nurses, or abortionist. Since I consider life to be at conception though and don't really care what man (government) says -- then I probably have less problem with someone who "killed a mass murderer" than those don't see life as happening then. I mean, if life really begins at conception, then our biggest serial killers are legalized by our government.

If you tell me that it is OK though because that is the law, then please don't be a hypocrite when it comes to killing of others that weren't considered people by the law at the time.

Like I said, Men will go a long way to justify their sin.

If you believe that no life should be taken, then where is the line drawn. Is it with humans? Animals (as some PETA and others believe) Plants? (they are living and growing)

I mean -- careful thought needs to come before decisions can really be made. Without plants and animals, how do we survive as a human race?

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

I am so happy your political career will be over in a week, you brainless, pathetic human being.

You should find an outlet for your hatred.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

it is illogical to differentiate between those in the weather underground who used violence in an attempt to stop the vietnam war and those who use violence to stop the availability of abortions.

anyone who argues they are different is just fooling themselves. they aren't.

It's funny to me how every single thing Sarah Palin says gets parsed to the nth degree.

She said that both things were unacceptable. I think you have to really split hairs to get upset with her answer to Williams' gotcha question.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

You should find an outlet for your hatred.

Oh, please. I do not hate Sarah Palin, nor do I hate Republicans. You seem to be setting up a strawman of some kind.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

Oh, please. I do not hate Sarah Palin, nor do I hate Republicans. You seem to be setting up a strawman of some kind.

You called her a "brainless, pathetic" human being. If you had any degree of objectivity at all, you'd realize not only how wrong you are but how angry you sound.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

It's funny to me how every single thing Sarah Palin says gets parsed to the nth degree.

She said that both things were unacceptable. I think you have to really split hairs to get upset with her answer to Williams' gotcha question.

wow, it seems the metaphor for anyone asking palin a question which requires her to actually think is "a gotcha question".

ridiculous.

it isn't difficult to respond with the very easy and correct answer of "any group in our society using violence to acheive their goals is a terrorist".

what the response by palin shows is she isn't very good when she has to go off script.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

wow, it seems the metaphor for anyone asking palin a question which requires her to actually think is "a gotcha question".

ridiculous.

it isn't difficult to respond with the very easy and correct answer of "any group in our society using violence to acheive their goals is a terrorist".

what the response by palin shows is she isn't very good when she has to go off script.

Ridiculous is right. Do you realize how silly you sound?

*in best Mavdog Colmes voice*: "It's unacceptable for her to call abortion clinic bombers unacceptable! She's not sufficiently indignant! What a blathering idiot!"

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

You called her a "brainless, pathetic" human being. If you had any degree of objectivity at all, you'd realize not only how wrong you are but how angry you sound.

I am angry. Anger != hate. I'm angry that the second largest national party in the US has brought about a person as seemingly anti-intellectual as Sarah Palin to the position in which 45% of the country will vote for her for Vice President. Sarah Palin does not understand national issues. That seems more than evident by the last month and a half to the majority of the population who have been completely put off by her. I actually feel sorry for John McCain that a man who has served as much as he has has been forced to put up with her.

I called her brainless because she doesn't show any kind of intellect, and in fact shows a significant lack of it, in my understanding. None of her family seems to aspire toward college, her husband didn't attend college, and she took 6 years to graduate with a BA. I called her pathetic because I have pity for her. I have pity for her because she's way the hell in over her head, and it's evident at every interview she does. Perhaps you thought I meant a different kind of pathetic, the one that tends to mean 'despicable.' I called her a human being because she is one.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Ridiculous is right. Do you realize how silly you sound?

*in best Mavdog Colmes voice*: "It's unacceptable for her to call abortion clinic bombers unacceptable! She's not sufficiently indignant! What a blathering idiot!"

no, I'm not the "silly" one.

the silly person is the one attempting to gloss over the inability of a candidate for vice president to offer a coherent and thoughful reply to a very easy question, where the vice presidential candidate instead muttered in response to the question of comparing two sets of terrorist acts something about acts of murder and violence being "unacceptable", as if that were sufficient as an answer to the question asked.

I mean, murder and violence is "unacceptable"? duh. are you comfortable setting the bar at a homer simpson level for a vice presidential candidate? I'm not.

yes, she a victim of another of those "gotcha questions" where the interviewer posed a question that actually required a thoughful nonscripted answer. how dare they!

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, I'm not the "silly" one.

the silly person is the one attempting to gloss over the inability of a candidate for vice president to offer a coherent and thoughful reply to a very easy question

Do we really want to compare the coherence and thoughtfulness of the replies made by the two vice-presidential candidates? Really?

Joe Biden makes major gaffes virtually every time he speaks. When I see you start to criticize him on a regular basis, then I'll take your criticism of Palin a bit more seriously.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Kirobaito

I am angry. Anger != hate. I'm angry that the second largest national party in the US has brought about a person as seemingly anti-intellectual as Sarah Palin to the position in which 45% of the country will vote for her for Vice President. Sarah Palin does not understand national issues. That seems more than evident by the last month and a half to the majority of the population who have been completely put off by her. I actually feel sorry for John McCain that a man who has served as much as he has has been forced to put up with her.

I called her brainless because she doesn't show any kind of intellect, and in fact shows a significant lack of it, in my understanding. None of her family seems to aspire toward college, her husband didn't attend college, and she took 6 years to graduate with a BA. I called her pathetic because I have pity for her. I have pity for her because she's way the hell in over her head, and it's evident at every interview she does. Perhaps you thought I meant a different kind of pathetic, the one that tends to mean 'despicable.' I called her a human being because she is one.

Here's an opposing view from Camille Paglia:

One of the most idiotic allegations batting around out there among urban media insiders is that Palin is "dumb." Are they kidding? What level of stupidity is now par for the course in those musty circles? (The value of Ivy League degrees, like sub-prime mortgages, has certainly been plummeting. As a Yale Ph.D., I have a perfect right to my scorn.) People who can't see how smart Palin is are trapped in their own narrow parochialism -- the tedious, hackneyed forms of their upper-middle-class syntax and vocabulary.

As someone whose first seven years were spent among Italian-American immigrants (I never met an elderly person who spoke English until we moved from Endicott to rural Oxford, New York, when I was in first grade), I am very used to understanding meaning through what might seem to others to be outlandish or fractured variations on standard English. Furthermore, I have spent virtually my entire teaching career (nearly four decades) in arts colleges, where the expressiveness of highly talented students in dance, music and the visual arts takes a hundred different forms. Finally, as a lover of poetry (my last book was about that), I savor every kind of experimentation with standard English -- beginning with Shakespeare, who was the greatest improviser of them all at a time when there were no grammar rules.

Many others listening to Sarah Palin at her debate went into conniptions about what they assailed as her incoherence or incompetence. But I was never in doubt about what she intended at any given moment. On the contrary, I was admiring not only her always shapely and syncopated syllables but the innate structures of her discourse -- which did seem to fly by in fragments at times but are plainly ready to be filled with deeper policy knowledge, as she gains it (hopefully over the next eight years of the Obama presidencies). This is a tremendously talented politician whose moment has not yet come. That she holds views completely opposed to mine is irrelevant.

[Silk Smoov]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, I'm not the "silly" one.

the silly person is the one attempting to gloss over the inability of a candidate for vice president to offer a coherent and thoughful reply to a very easy question, where the vice presidential candidate instead muttered in response to the question of comparing two sets of terrorist acts something about acts of murder and violence being "unacceptable", as if that were sufficient as an answer to the question asked.

I mean, murder and violence is "unacceptable"? duh. are you comfortable setting the bar at a homer simpson level for a vice presidential candidate? I'm not.

yes, she a victim of another of those "gotcha questions" where the interviewer posed a question that actually required a thoughful nonscripted answer. how dare they!

Come on Mavie! You know the big spin is coming next, plus the deflection to Biden and Obama so called critics on something lame. It amazes me that so many will go so far to protect Palin, while so many Republicans have condemmed this pick as horrible and thoughtless. You essentially have to be at your lowest point to pick Palin as the Republican VP candidate.

Back to the topic of the thread:
Palin showed that she indeed has no clue, and maybe in fact being secluded in Alaska this whole time is a bad thing afterall. I would think that every American would call the 911 attacks and ANY bombing inside the United States as acts of terriorists.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Here's an opposing view from Camille Paglia:

but, but, but, but...she sounds like she's from a small town.... but, but, but, she doesn't sound 100% polished as if she's been coached her entire life... but, but, but.. she's from Alaska.

[Murphy3]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

no, I'm not the "silly" one.

the silly person is the one attempting to gloss over the inability of a candidate for vice president to offer a coherent and thoughful reply to a very easy question, where the vice presidential candidate instead muttered in response to the question of comparing two sets of terrorist acts something about acts of murder and violence being "unacceptable", as if that were sufficient as an answer to the question asked.

I mean, murder and violence is "unacceptable"? duh. are you comfortable setting the bar at a homer simpson level for a vice presidential candidate? I'm not.

yes, she a victim of another of those "gotcha questions" where the interviewer posed a question that actually required a thoughful nonscripted answer. how dare they!

Your response is turning you into what you're arguing against. You sound like you're bound and determined to tear apart anything the person says regardless of how it makes you look... and regardless of what she has said..

You come off as a rather close minded individual.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Do we really want to compare the coherence and thoughtfulness of the replies made by the two vice-presidential candidates? Really?

Joe Biden makes major gaffes virtually every time he speaks. When I see you start to criticize him on a regular basis, then I'll take your criticism of Palin a bit more seriously.

sure, if you have examples of biden providing a similar thoughtless response, bring it on. equal treatment is fine with me.

of course, it stands to reason that even if you were able to illustrate biden speaking without intelligence it doesn't excuse palin doing that very thing in this case.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Your response is turning you into what you're arguing against. You sound like you're bound and determined to tear apart anything the person says regardless of how it makes you look... and regardless of what she has said..

You come off as a rather close minded individual.

what she said in not so many words is that she wouldn't apply the term "terrorist" to a group to whose goals she sympathizes with.

yeah, I'm "close minded". I apply the same terms to everyone who acts similarly. I call the weather underground "terrorists" in spite of the fact that I sympathized with their goals of ending the vietnam war, and I call the abortion bombers "terrorists" too.

that's exactly what palin should have done.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

it is illogical to differentiate between those in the weather underground who used violence in an attempt to stop the vietnam war and those who use violence to stop the availability of abortions.

anyone who argues they are different is just fooling themselves. they aren't.

so if Palin was as closely associated with an abortion clinic bomber as Obama is with Ayers, you'd find some way to blow that off as unimportant?

[Usually Lurkin]

Has anyone asked Obama whether he'd put Ayers in the same category as anyone who would seek to destroy innocent Americans?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

so if Palin was as closely associated with an abortion clinic bomber as Obama is with Ayers, you'd find some way to blow that off as unimportant?

oh, yes, if palin was found to have served on a board, or entertained in the home of, a person who in their past bombed an abortion clinic, and palin also denounced that act of the abortion bombing, all of which is the case with obama and ayers, I'd say that palin's association with that terrorist isn't important.

the question tho is if she would call the abortion clinic bomber a terrorist, like she is fond of saying about ayers.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

sure, if you have examples of biden providing a similar thoughtless response, bring it on. equal treatment is fine with me.

of course, it stands to reason that even if you were able to illustrate biden speaking without intelligence it doesn't excuse palin doing that very thing in this case.

You're missing the point, which is that you only criticize the VP candidate that you oppose.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

what she said in not so many words is that she wouldn't apply the term "terrorist" to a group to whose goals she sympathizes with.

No, sir, that is not what she said. I know that's what Brian Williams was hoping for, but it isn't what she said.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Mavdog

oh, yes, if palin was found to have served on a board, or entertained in the home of, a person who in their past bombed an abortion clinic, and palin also denounced that act of the abortion bombing, all of which is the case with obama and ayers, I'd say that palin's association with that terrorist isn't important.

the question tho is if she would call the abortion clinic bomber a terrorist, like she is fond of saying about ayers.

Has Obama called Ayers a terrorist?

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

You're missing the point, which is that you only criticize the VP candidate that you oppose.

gee, when biden is asked a simple question and can't handle it let us know, I'll criticize him too.

[Mavdog]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

Has Obama called Ayers a terrorist?

has he been asked the question?

edit: btw ayers never bombed anybody or anything.