NVE must be traded - Page 3 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FilthyFinMavs · 06-18-2002, 11:28 PM

<< NVE is a streaky shooter. I hate to say poor because sometimes the guy just goes off.....but you cannot count on him day in and day out. >>

I think u said it best right there he is streaky sometimes he can be struggling for his shot and that could and most likely will end in failure. But if he on he is on for the rest of the game. The problem is he isnt consistent at all at that. But no player is consistent everyone is gonna have a bad game.

David · 06-19-2002, 05:50 AM

Streaky is the word for NVE. Good streaky and bad streaky. He goes both ways. On average he's about a 40% shooter. There is no need to have him on the team unless you allow him to do his thing. I would prefer that he would be more consistant on the good side. You really have to put him in, let him do what he does, and hope he's "on" that night. What worries the other team is the threat of NVE. He WILL drive to the hoop and I like that in a player.

Murphy3 · 06-19-2002, 07:27 AM

<< The problem is he isnt consistent at all at that. But no player is consistent everyone is gonna have a bad game >>

FilthyFinMavs, NVE is much more likely than the average player of throwing up a crappy game. Sure, he might go off and have a couple of big games but they will be surrounded by 4-5 poor to very mediocre games

sure david, you can allow him to play his game but that would be a detrimant (sp?) to the team as a whole

Drbio · 06-19-2002, 08:12 AM

He WILL drive to the hoop and I like that

Amen. I do like that he was willing to drive the ball to the hoop. How many of us were yelling that in the playoffs? I was.

Murphy3 · 06-19-2002, 08:28 AM

he will take the ball to the hoop but to often he forces up shots once getting there instead of kicking to the open man.

what do I have to prove that he forces shots? his poor percentage for his career from within the 3pt stripe indicates that he either isn't a good finisher or he takes alot of bad shots..

you take your pick

Drbio · 06-19-2002, 08:56 AM

He does take an inordinately high percentage of bad shots.

Drbio · 06-19-2002, 08:57 AM

He does take an inordinately high percentage of bad shots.

Lvubun1 · 06-19-2002, 08:35 PM

Lets be honest for a sec, he deserves a lot of credit because he really sacrificed his game for the good of the team, as I posted eariler in this thread NVE lead the league in scoring the first month with 27 ppg, I can't remember another player who in one month is #1 in scoring but in 6 months later he is coming off the bench scoring 13. His shots per game before the trade was 25, with the Mavs it was around 16. You don't think if he wanted to he could have taken atleast 4-5 more shots a game, most people here wouldn't have liked it but I'm sure Nellie would not have cared. You think if Cube brings in Wally, Odom, The Big Dog or just about any other player in here they will cut their shots down by 9 a game? Don't think so, so if you want NVE to be traded to improve the team like I do, then thats fine but if you want him gone just because you think he shots to much your barking up the wrong tree.

Hoopsmeister · 06-19-2002, 11:21 PM

<< Lets be honest for a sec, he deserves a lot of credit because he really sacrificed his game for the good of the team, as I posted eariler in this thread NVE lead the league in scoring the first month with 27 ppg, I can't remember another player who in one month is #1 in scoring but in 6 months later he is coming off the bench scoring 13. His shots per game before the trade was 25, with the Mavs it was around 16. >>

I think NVE deserves credit for being *willing* to try to change his game when he first got here. But Nellie put a stop to that and told him not to.

Comparing his Denver stats from this year to his stats here isn't a real picture. Remember, Denver was supposed to be built around McDyess. But then they found out they wouldn't have him for the first half of the season, so NVE wasn't playing his 'normal' game there, he was trying to step up for a team missing its top player. And taking his first month stats is really inappropriate. He had a 50 point game there which really skewed the stats. By mid-season that one game had been even'd out and he was down around #20 which is much more realistic, even with him carrying the load for himself and McDyess. Tony Delk had a 50 point game last year but he's still not an NBA starter. NVE is and he deserves credit for going to the bench and being a good boy there, but he didn't actually change his game here--at least not after the game where Nellie benched him for Avery.

Kat · 06-20-2002, 12:03 AM

Just because I can. I say no trade NVE. He stays put.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 07:39 AM

so, he was relatively hot for a month..
it didn't take him long to cool off. his shooting percentage went to crap (or, back to usual) long before he was traded to the mavs.

and yes, he did look willing to curb his shots when moved here.. let's hope nellie will allow him to do so this season

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 07:52 AM

if nellie will allow it and if NVE will do it, they should get on the same page and make sure that he knows that he tries to look pass first more often. the mavs can't afford for him to be taking as many shots per minute as he did this year.

it's outrageous for him to shoot as much as he did with such a low percentage when there's much better scorers/shooters on the floor.. especially when a good percentage of his shots are of poor shot selection

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 08:27 AM

let's hope nellie will allow him to do so this season

Absolutely...either that or trade him. If we are making a run at Kandi as was expressed in another thread, it might take NVE to do it. The exeption will not be enough.

jacktruth · 06-20-2002, 10:06 AM

I got to agree that Nick must go. It was a good idea, but it didn't pan out.

If we are afraid of what happens to the team chemistry when Nash sits, then all the more reason to dump Nick, because it happens with him too.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-20-2002, 12:29 PM

<< I got to agree that Nick must go. It was a good idea, but it didn't pan out.

If we are afraid of what happens to the team chemistry when Nash sits, then all the more reason to dump Nick, because it happens with him too. >>

I dont understand how can u say that "It was a good idea, but it didn't pan out."? We havent even experimented yet we had Nick and Raef for half of a season. Now if u thought that Nick and Raef would come here from a horrible team to a good one and just find there roles and dominate than this is why u feel like this.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 12:51 PM

NVE isn't the type of player the mavs need.
he's very mediocre defensively
he's a poor shooter that looks for his shot first (which isn't good when the mavs already have many good shooters/scorers)

yes, he's an asset..but he's probably more of an asset in trade to the mavs than he is as a member of the team

FilthyFinMavs · 06-20-2002, 12:54 PM

<< NVE isn't the type of player the mavs need.
he's very mediocre defensively
he's a poor shooter that looks for his shot first (which isn't good when the mavs already have many good shooters/scorers)

yes, he's an asset..but he's probably more of an asset in trade to the mavs than he is as a member of the team >>

Only 2 or 3 guys in this thread are saying exactly what u say out of about 7 people so that tells u that not everyone thinks this. Cuban says he is gonna keep him but he said that about Juwan so i take that with a grain of salt.

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 01:02 PM

Nick's best contribution to the Mavs is as trade bait. He is worth a lot, has the talent to star on another team, but is held down on the Mavs by Nash (rightfully so). He should be playing full time, not as a back up. His trade value is higher than at any time in the last few years because he showed that he could be a team player. Get something now for him before he implodes again.

FilthyFinMavs · 06-20-2002, 01:10 PM

<< Nick's best contribution to the Mavs is as trade bait. He is worth a lot, has the talent to star on another team, but is held down on the Mavs by Nash (rightfully so). He should be playing full time, not as a back up. His trade value is higher than at any time in the last few years because he showed that he could be a team player. Get something now for him before he implodes again. >>

I hear ya here and I agree. But who is gonna take on his contract? And being that he gets paid so much how can we get our value back in a trade if Mavs fans are for trading NVE and no one else? Its going to be about 3 guyz for Nick more than likely or unless we are goign to get another shooter in here for Nick.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 01:13 PM

who is going to take his contract?
1. a team that needs a PG
2. a team that is looking to move a contract of their own

FilthyFinMavs · 06-20-2002, 01:22 PM

<< who is going to take his contract?
1. a team that needs a PG
2. a team that is looking to move a contract of their own >>

Thats exactly my point what team is willing to do that?

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 01:28 PM

almost every team has a contract or two they'd like to get out of. and there's a few teams that need a PG

FilthyFinMavs · 06-20-2002, 01:33 PM

<< almost every team has a contract or two they'd like to get out of. and there's a few teams that need a PG >>

So how does this make the mavs better by trading NVE for a player that a team doesent want the contract of a player? We will do better by just keeping NVE.

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 01:53 PM

almost every team has a contract or two they'd like to get out of. and there's a few teams that need a PG

Too bad the Knicks don't have any players that the Mavs wanted. because they fit RIGHT into this mold. They have about 7 contracts they'd like to get out of and they NEED a good point guard too. Unfortunately no FOOL (except Layden but he's with the Knicks) is going to take any of the players on the Knicks for what they're making.

What do people think of a trade of:

C. Witherspoon
Charlie Ward
#7 pick of this year's draft.

for

Van Exel
Tariq Abdul Wajad
Eduardo Najera

Yeah I didn't think so. Contracts wouldn't work for starters and I think the Mavs lose too much and get not enough in return.

Hoopsmeister · 06-20-2002, 01:59 PM

<< What do people think of a trade of:

C. Witherspoon
Charlie Ward
#7 pick of this year's draft.

for

Van Exel
Tariq Abdul Wajad
Eduardo Najera. >>

I think if I want to get mugged like that, I'll just leave 10,000 dollars sticking out of my pockets and go wander around dark alleys for awhile. At least that type of robbery is doesn't linger for years.

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 02:02 PM

This trade works with the contracts involved and under the CBA. Would anyone do this deal. Believe it or not, I think I would do this deal.

Dallas trades:
PG Nick Van Exel (18.4 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 6.6 apg in 34.7 minutes)
SG Tariq Abdul-Wahad (5.6 ppg, 3.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 18.4 minutes)
C Shawn Bradley (4.1 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.4 apg in 14.3 minutes)

Dallas receives:
SF Clarence Weatherspoon (8.8 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 1.1 apg in 30.8 minutes)
PG Charlie Ward (5.2 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 3.2 apg in 16.8 minutes)
SF Shandon Anderson (5.0 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 0.9 apg in 19.5 minutes)
PF Othella Harrington (7.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 0.5 apg in 20.3 minutes)
#7 pick in NBA draft.

Change in team outlook: -1.4 ppg, +7.4 rpg, and -2.3 apg.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 02:05 PM

<< So how does this make the mavs better by trading NVE for a player that a team doesent want the contract of a player? We will do better by just keeping NVE >>

just because it's a contract that another team wants to get out of doesn't mean it's not a player that can significantly help the mavs.

Hoopsmeister · 06-20-2002, 02:06 PM

That one I would probably do. Not for sure, since I don't know how long any of those guys are signed for other than that its more than one year.

Nellie · 06-20-2002, 02:14 PM

I think the question is why would NY agree to that deal?

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 02:20 PM

If I'm not mistaken both Witherspoon and Harrington has about 3 or 4 years left on their contracts and I believe Anderson has about 2 or 3. They're hefty contracts but the more I think about a trade like that, you do address some things immediately. Anderson believe it or not isn't too bad defensively and he's a slasher offensively and he has some size. C-spoon is a banger down low. However he doesn't quite have the size defensively that we would like but he does give some toughness to the front line. Ward is just just a back up point guard who actually pressures the ball pretty well for a point guard.

Also the seventh pick in the draft, we address the long term need. Obviously whoever they would take with the seventh pick would be a victim of numbers however the seventh pick is high enough to get something for many years to come.

MavKikiNYC · 06-20-2002, 02:33 PM

That trade basically works out to NVE for the #7--which I think the Mavs would do in an instant. But someone would probably tip Layden off that it wasn't a good deal for the NYKs.

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 02:51 PM

Layden has made so many dumb moves I think he would think he was doing something great for the Knicks.

1. He actually is a fan of Bradley's. He was in love with Bradley when he was with Utah and he still thinks Bradley is good.

2. Whether the Knicks recognize it or not, they need a point guard. Mark Jackson, Charlie Ward and Howard Eisley aka the three headed monster isn't doing the job.

3. It would work out for the Knicks in the sense they would be getting rid of THREE contracts in exchange for ONE. Bradley's $4m a year is less than what they were paying for Anderson, Witherspoon and Harrington each. So the Knicks win in that sense.

The reason why this won't happen is the Knicks wants that 7th pick because essentially they're rebuilding. However this trade I think would do both teams a great service to both teams.

However Layden is trying to do something REAL dumb by trading Camby and Sprewell to the Rockets to get BACK Rice and the number one pick.. DUMB, DUMB, DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nellie · 06-20-2002, 03:42 PM

<< However Layden is trying to do something REAL dumb by trading Camby and Sprewell to the Rockets to get BACK Rice and the number one pick.. DUMB, DUMB, DUMB!!!!!!!!!!!! >>

That is the most retarded deal I have ever heard.

Nellie · 06-20-2002, 03:43 PM

On another note, how far will this thread go?

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 03:55 PM

i'm sure it'll keep going as long as people have ideas to post in the thread.

interesting concept, isn't it?

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 03:58 PM

That is the most retarded deal I have ever heard.

Yes and I forgot to add to that, the Rockets would also get the Knicks 7th pick...

It infuriates me that someone would be so stupid to even consider that deal.

Yes this is an interesting concept.

Nellie · 06-20-2002, 03:59 PM

Genious.

Nellie · 06-20-2002, 04:04 PM

<< That is the most retarded deal I have ever heard.

Yes and I forgot to add to that, the Rockets would also get the Knicks 7th pick...

It infuriates me that someone would be so stupid to even consider that deal.

Yes this is an interesting concept. >>

If this is true, the Mavs should get involved and make this a 3-team deal to land #7.

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 04:18 PM

Well this is what I heard on the new york station when I was out there. Layden is SO IN AWE of Ming that he wants to do whatever it takes to get Ming. However I think now that the Rockets want him, this may fall by the waist side.

Hoopsmeister · 06-20-2002, 04:19 PM

<< 3. It would work out for the Knicks in the sense they would be getting rid of THREE contracts in exchange for ONE. Bradley's $4m a year is less than what they were paying for Anderson, Witherspoon and Harrington each. So the Knicks win in that sense. >>

And Bradley's deal actually goes down over the next few years, at least according to best sources. It is extremely cap friendly as opposed to most of what New York has on its books.

If none of those contracts are for more than 4 years, then I would agree that the Mavs should jump on such a deal. Its not a great deal for New York but its not awful. And they have made far worse deals under Layden--of course, one of those was Cuban managing to sell them Eisley so they might be feeling a bit gunshy about dealing with Dallas again.