Dallas @ Atlanta: Gameday Thread - Page 4 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 02-09-2004, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss
And this is the perfect example of how stats are misleading:

Yahoo has Steve Nash as tonight's "top performer." Nash absolutely was horrendous tonight. He couldn't dribble worth a damn. He couldn't create any space. He constantly was out of control.

Bayliss, yahoo's just f'ed up. His stats aren't remotely the best on the team for tonight's game...

Sturm, good to see you..the rebounding wasn't bad tonight...just didn't get enough out of Bradley or Jamison. (I know you're not speaking about just tonight, though)

MightyToine · 02-09-2004, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sturm und drang

I have no idea why Antoine Walker thinks he can shoot threes. He can't, and never should. His bricked three towards the end - the one he took when we were actually making a run and were down by three or four (I think) - sucked the life right out of us.

Well....Walker made a 3 before and Dirk hadn't made a 3 ALL NIGHT soo.... You get the point?

If Walker made that 3, things could've been different....OR they could've just turned out the same in the end.

Quote:

What's happened to our rebounding, by the way?

Walker had 12 boards tonight; Dirk had 10... What's the problem?

MikeB · 02-09-2004, 10:04 PM

Hawks now have 9 days off to enjoy this...UGHHHHHHH!

The three headed C only played 31 minutes...Nellie decided to try to outscore them...he does this sometimes...rarely works.

Jamison got 4 shot attempts...1 was a putback...1 was a transisition basket...1 was a wild fling...and the last was a forced 3. Think we need to get him a little bit more involved?

DallasFan1980 · 02-09-2004, 10:05 PM

Steve had some very critical turnovers and fouls when we were making our run. This is what actually cost us the game. Walker stepping out of bounds, Finley missing his free throws and several other mistakes by the non big two didn't cost us the game.
Give the Hawks some credit. They have won some big games against great teams this year.

Murphy3 · 02-09-2004, 10:06 PM

MightyToine, I don't think anyone really cares that Dirk and Nash had struggled from beyond the arc tonight. The fact is, Walker's a poor percentage three point shooter for his career. Nash, Dirk and Fin are good percentage three point shooters. I can't think of a reason for anyone to EVER want Walker to shoot a three instead of having one of the big three take the shot.

MavsFanFinley · 02-09-2004, 10:06 PM

1. Why didn't Best come in for Nash during the 2nd half? Nash struggled, but Best's line doesn't look too bad in 10 minutes of play.

2. Why didn't Howard (or even Daniels) come in for Finley during the 2nd half. Fin was much better in the 2nd half, no doubt, but no rest and no court time for Howard?

MightyToine · 02-09-2004, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: DallasFan1980
Steve had some very critical turnovers and fouls when we were making our run. This is what actually cost us the game. Walker stepping out of bounds, Finley missing his free throws and several other mistakes by the non big two didn't cost us the game.
Give the Hawks some credit. They have won some big games against great teams this year.

I REFUSE TO GIVE CREDIT TO A TEAM THAT SHOULD BE CONTRACTED FROM THE LEAGUE! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

Bayliss · 02-09-2004, 10:07 PM

Quote:

When will the opportunists stop?

When did we start to win against Detroit? Detroit jumped all over us because Nellie went small with Dirk at center. As soon as he played the 3 headed monster at center for the rest of the night... we tightened our defense and played well.

Why did we start out so piss poor against Atlanta? Nellie again went small with Dirk at center. When he put the three headed monster into the game we started to come back and tighten defensively. But the difference was Nellie continued to stay small in the 2nd half and it hurt us.

It's not a coincidence... this team will succeed with a straight up lineup. When Nellie starts to make the other team match up with us instead of t6he Mavs matching up to the other team then we will be just fine. And combine Nellie's matchup ball with our "Laker mentality" of only playing well against the big boys and it spells disaster.

Murphy3 · 02-09-2004, 10:08 PM

It was a team effort to lose the game. Dirk had one TO too many for the game. Fin shot poorly on the whole for the night. Nash just didn't play good ball at all. Walker turned the ball over too much and took some ill advised shots towards the end of the game. Jamison really didn't contribute much.

superheadcat · 02-09-2004, 10:09 PM

kiki participated in a game-day thread? mavs must've lost an ugly one.

MightyToine · 02-09-2004, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
MightyToine, I don't think anyone really cares that Dirk and Nash had struggled from beyond the arc tonight. The fact is, Walker's a poor percentage three point shooter for his career. Nash, Dirk and Fin are good percentage three point shooters. I can't think of a reason for anyone to EVER want Walker to shoot a three instead of having one of the big three take the shot.

Murph, What are you talking about?

I never wanted Walker to take that 3.... Stop accusing me of ass-kissing here... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

And yeah....Dirk/Fin/Nash are indeed WAAAY Better shooters *but* they kept on MISSING..... What the Mavs SHOULD'VE done was take it inside and score 2 points....

Murphy3 · 02-09-2004, 10:11 PM

I'm not saying that you're ass kissing. You made mention of Walker making a three while dirk and nash missed theirs. So, you get the point.

MavsFanFinley · 02-09-2004, 10:11 PM

Is it me or has Nelson fallen back on sitting players too long? What's with sitting a player for nearly a quarter? He did that alot last year and it would drive me nuts.

MightyToine · 02-09-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
I'm not saying that you're ass kissing. You made mention of Walker making a three while dirk and nash missed theirs. So, you get the point.

Actually, my point was that since Walker made a 3, I was simply trying to justify why he attempted another one when the Mavs were making a run late... That's all.

Bayliss · 02-09-2004, 10:12 PM

Quote:

And yeah....Dirk/Fin/Nash are indeed WAAAY Better shooters *but* they kept on MISSING..... What the Mavs SHOULD'VE done was take it inside and score 2 points....

Unfortunately the refs weren't calling much at all for the Mavs under the basket. But that still doesn't excuse the tendency to drift for 3s. In order for the Mavs to be effective they have to push the ball for fast break opportunities.... and attack the rim.

MikeB · 02-09-2004, 10:12 PM

They were getting man-handled inside and didn't have the stomach to go in there. The 3 was way easier..and we have been hitting them better recently...so they all shot 3s.

Captain Disaster · 02-09-2004, 10:13 PM

We can't win every game. We need to trade Walker unless he promises not to shoot from anywhere unless it is a super high percentage shot (and he still misses often!). The Mavericks continue to underestimate lesser opponents; this is the NBA. You'd better take everyone seriously or you may get burned, often. Why can't we win every game?

MikeB · 02-09-2004, 10:15 PM

We weren't ready for a tough game. We thought , "Oh its just Atlanta and they are 17-35...we'll kick them and go home". Atlanta thought," Some of us have never beaten this team and after this we are off for 9 days...lets go play hard!"

DNNF · 02-09-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MightyToine

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
I'm not saying that you're ass kissing. You made mention of Walker making a three while dirk and nash missed theirs. So, you get the point.

Actually, my point was that since Walker made a 3, I was simply trying to justify why he attempted another one when the Mavs were making a run late... That's all.

I think it is Nash's fault on Walker's last missed 3. pt fieldgoal attempt. Nash should have known better than to passed it to Walker when the game is on the line. The point is Nash is just horrible tonight.

EricaLubarsky · 02-09-2004, 10:16 PM

small with a seven footer at center?

You want Williams (6'10") or Fortson (6'7") to play? Would that be a bigger lineup?

EricaLubarsky · 02-09-2004, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MikeB
We weren't ready for a tough game. We thought , "Oh its just Atlanta and they are 17-35...we'll kick them and go home". Atlanta thought," Some of us have never beaten this team and after this we are off for 9 days...lets go play hard!"

And we came in and did not set a defensive mindset and it really solidified it for Atlanta.

I would think, "hey, we arent going to win many more than 30 games in this season. This will be one of them"

Bayliss · 02-09-2004, 10:18 PM

The Mavs also did something totally different. In the 2nd half against Detroit... Dirk was in the post often. Tonight? Not much. Of course their zone had much to do with that. But the most effective way to beat the zone is ball movement... flash cutters to the free throw line... and penetration. The defense cannot react quick enough to rotate. Eventually every team can wear out a zone if there are those 3 things happening.

But we did not have ball movement, penetration, or "flash cuts."

MavKikiNYC · 02-09-2004, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: superheadcat
kiki participated in a game-day thread? mavs must've lost an ugly one.

In a laboratory setting this would be called irregular re-inforcement. Enjoy your pellet.

Murphy3 · 02-09-2004, 10:20 PM

Erica, Dirk is obviously better suited to play the PF spot. So yes, having him at the center is in essence going small even if he is 7'0.

MikeB · 02-09-2004, 10:20 PM

Man you guys need to get off Walker [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/img]

He missed 4 threes...and had 5 TOs...bad bad Toine...but he also had 12 boards 2steals and shot 6 of 13.
Nash missed 9 shots
Finley mised 14 shots

Walker missed 7 and took less than shots than any of the BIG 3.

It is appearent that most of you hate his game (in my best Randy Galloway slang) but he is fitting in and doing all he can.

So get off Toine

EricaLubarsky · 02-09-2004, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
Erica, Dirk is obviously better suited to play the PF spot. So yes, having him at the center is in essence going small even if he is 7'0.

maybe we should call it going "true-centerless" instead of "going small"

Bayliss · 02-09-2004, 10:23 PM

Quote:

small with a seven footer at center?

You want Williams (6'10") or Fortson (6'7") to play? Would that be a bigger lineup?

Which player is more physical? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Which player uses their body to bang around? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Whih player is best to commit hard fouls? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Which player is best suited to sit the bench if in foul trouble? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Dirk may be taller but the other play more of a physical game. And Wouldn't you love to have Dirk's length combined with one of the others? Dirk creates more havoc in the 10-15 foot range getting steals than he does in the 5 foot range trying to body up people and blocking shots.

DallasFan1980 · 02-09-2004, 10:24 PM

I don't think many of you were watching the same game I was. Not by your comments.
Your placing blame on the wrong people.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-blush.gif[/img] Which seems to be the norm on most Mavericks boards I read.

EricaLubarsky · 02-09-2004, 10:25 PM

Williams and Fortson are scrubs

Bradley cant play more than 10-20 minutes...

Yes they play hard and try to be tall but you cant bitch about Nellie losing the game by not playing them. That is 100% wrong

MavKikiNYC · 02-09-2004, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Quote:

small with a seven footer at center?

You want Williams (6'10") or Fortson (6'7") to play? Would that be a bigger lineup?

Which player is more physical? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Which player uses their body to bang around? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Whih player is best to commit hard fouls? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Which player is best suited to sit the bench if in foul trouble? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Dirk may be taller but the other play more of a physical game. And Wouldn't you love to have Dirk's length combined with one of the others? Dirk creates more havoc in the 10-15 foot range getting steals than he does in the 5 foot range trying to body up people and blocking shots.

Y'all get off her. You're working in far too subtle a conceptual plane to expect her to grasp it.

Bayliss · 02-09-2004, 10:27 PM

Actually, it wasn't Walker's fault tonight. Had he shot 2 fewer three pointers and committed 2 less turnovers he would have the perfect game I would want for him.

The problem stemmed from not having a center... not going to Dirk enough in critical times. And Nash sucking.

Murphy3 · 02-09-2004, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: EricaLubarsky

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
Erica, Dirk is obviously better suited to play the PF spot. So yes, having him at the center is in essence going small even if he is 7'0.

maybe we should call it going "true-centerless" instead of "going small"

You can call it that if you'd like. It's really up to you. But, I think it's rather obvious that 'going small' means that the Mavs were going without a center in the game. When someone gets commits a turnover, we all understand that they are not having a small apple pastry placed in a mental institution.

EricaLubarsky · 02-09-2004, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Quote:

small with a seven footer at center?

You want Williams (6'10") or Fortson (6'7") to play? Would that be a bigger lineup?

Which player is more physical? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Which player uses their body to bang around? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Whih player is best to commit hard fouls? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Which player is best suited to sit the bench if in foul trouble? Dirk or Fortson/Williams?

Dirk may be taller but the other play more of a physical game. And Wouldn't you love to have Dirk's length combined with one of the others? Dirk creates more havoc in the 10-15 foot range getting steals than he does in the 5 foot range trying to body up people and blocking shots.

Y'all get off her. You're working in far too subtle a conceptual plane to expect her to grasp it.

Do not insult me one more time, Kiki.

MightyToine · 02-09-2004, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
We can't win every game. We need to trade Walker unless he promises not to shoot from anywhere unless it is a super high percentage shot (and he still misses often!). The Mavericks continue to underestimate lesser opponents; this is the NBA. You'd better take everyone seriously or you may get burned, often. Why can't we win every game?

Captain Disaster, Give it a rest. Your constant "Walker needs to be traded" posts have really gotten old. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]

MavsFanFinley · 02-09-2004, 10:29 PM

4th quarter stats:

Walker (8) 1-5, 0-3, 2pts, 2rbs, 1to

Dirk (12) 3-7, 0-3, 6pts, 5rbs, 2to's

Finley (12) 3-7, 2-4, 0-1, 8pts, 6rbs

Nash (12) 3-4, 0-1, 4as, 3to's

Jamison (6) 0-2

MikeB · 02-09-2004, 10:29 PM

Muphy3 said:
"When someone gets commits a turnover, we all understand that they are not having a small apple pastry placed in a mental institution. "

LOL [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

bingocasino · 02-09-2004, 10:30 PM

i rather see some scrubs playing than nellies all sf squad.

Captain Disaster · 02-09-2004, 10:31 PM

Maybe Nash & Dirk were fighting through birthday hangovers!

EricaLubarsky · 02-09-2004, 10:33 PM

Im not arguing Dirk is a true center

Im just saying that he is seven feet tall and if he put in the effort he could shot block.

He grabbed a double double tonight. He did half of what we needed from him.

He isnt optimal but neither are 36year old Scott Williams or 6'7" Fortson.

Nelson knows that and that is why he played Nowitzi.

There was no physical player to body up. Nelson matched them up well. Smaller players were giving us fits and Nelson did what he could.

When we play like crap we play like crap. Let's just not blame it completely on not having a true center when the opposing center was the least of our problems.

Ratliff is way faster than any of our centers and Nowitzki is our fastest center. He also only had 8 points on the night and Dirk matched him on rebounds.

MikeB · 02-09-2004, 10:34 PM

I think they were fighting thru the officiating. They were both hot early in the game before Nash was called for his 2nd foul. I think when Nash went out they were a combined 5 of 6 with Nash 2 of 2.