Utah vs. Dallas Game Thread.... - Page 5 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 10-21-2003, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
My only concern about Dirk getting the most shots/touches now is that it may kill the offensive games of the others like tonight.

It didn't bother me last year cause Dirk was the biggest threat and others still got shots. Now, however, we have guys use to the ball in their hands and getting shots.

I know, I know, it's only preseason. But, Finley is taking about half the shots he took last season. Jamison is probably near the same or under his fg attempts in GS. Walker will drop around 5 shot attempts as well.

I'm afraid we'll see guys settling for jumpers and standing around watching Dirk.

I am NOT saying to reduce Dirk's shots by any means. No reason he shouldn't be getting 18-20 shot attempts unless he's going to the ft line a lot. Say 14 shot attempts and 10 ft attempts. I'm just saying Nelson might be rethinking his plan to have the ball in Dirk's hands at all times.

if they can't adapt, they should be moved. 14 shot attempts for dirk and 10 free throws is not acceptable.
I'm not sure if anyone has ever put up FG/FT attempts similar to 14 and 10. If Dirk were to get to the line at that rate, the bould would literally need to be in his hands every possession. However, it's safe to say that something like 14 and 10 is simply not likely in the least bit.

Dirk41= konsesjonen · 10-21-2003, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: MavsFanFinley
My only concern about Dirk getting the most shots/touches now is that it may kill the offensive games of the others like tonight.

It didn't bother me last year cause Dirk was the biggest threat and others still got shots. Now, however, we have guys use to the ball in their hands and getting shots.

I know, I know, it's only preseason. But, Finley is taking about half the shots he took last season. Jamison is probably near the same or under his fg attempts in GS. Walker will drop around 5 shot attempts as well.

I'm afraid we'll see guys settling for jumpers and standing around watching Dirk.

I am NOT saying to reduce Dirk's shots by any means. No reason he shouldn't be getting 18-20 shot attempts unless he's going to the ft line a lot. Say 14 shot attempts and 10 ft attempts. I'm just saying Nelson might be rethinking his plan to have the ball in Dirk's hands at all times.

Not sure how at all you can equate the poor O by other's tonight on Dirk. He only got 9 SHOTS, 9!!! Considering how hot he was, he should of gotten more, well more. Jamison had 9, so not sure how this equates tonight.

MavsFanFinley · 10-21-2003, 11:07 PM

Quote:

if they can't adapt, they should be moved. 14 shot attempts for dirk and 10 free throws is not acceptable.

That likely will happen. The Mavs are looking at a disaster here. I wasn't suggesting 14 and 10 attempts would be acceptable as an average, but more fine if others are hitting their shots as well.

I know I don't want to see Dirk taking 20 shots and 10 ft attempts when other guys are only taking 7, 8, 9 or 12 and missing. It's not just cause they are not adapting, but they're getting a shot here and there. No way for any of them to get in any sort of rhythm.

If we're putting the ball in Dirk's hand and posting him up constantly, what does that do to Walker and Jamison's post up game. If Nelson isn't running plays and guys are standing around waiting to see what Dirk is going to do, what then?

I know I don't want to see everyone else reign in their games for the sake of Dirk getting X amount of shots and touches every night.

Murphy3 · 10-21-2003, 11:09 PM

well sure, there will be games where dirk doesn't get his shots.
however, as the best scoring option and as someone that's still on the rise, it would be foolish for dirk to take anything more than a very, very minor hit on his shot attempts

Bayliss · 10-21-2003, 11:16 PM

Quote:

That likely will happen. The Mavs are looking at a disaster here. I wasn't suggesting 14 and 10 attempts would be acceptable as an average, but more fine if others are hitting their shots as well.

I know I don't want to see Dirk taking 20 shots and 10 ft attempts when other guys are only taking 7, 8, 9 or 12 and missing. It's not just cause they are not adapting, but they're getting a shot here and there. No way for any of them to get in any sort of rhythm.

If we're putting the ball in Dirk's hand and posting him up constantly, what does that do to Walker and Jamison's post up game. If Nelson isn't running plays and guys are standing around waiting to see what Dirk is going to do, what then?

I know I don't want to see everyone else reign in their games for the sake of Dirk getting X amount of shots and touches every night.

That's fine. In Boston KC Jones kept everyone happy. McHale would get so many... Parrish... DJ... etc etc. But come the 4th quarter everyone in the frickin' building knew who was going to dominate the shots for Boston.

That is what Nellie has to do. Let the player get their shots throughout the game... but come the 4th quarter, there is one player on the Mavs that has to be taking the shots (or at least creating for others). And if you don't believe that is the case then the Mavs will never win a title.

That was the way just about every team has won for about 20 years. They will share until crunchtime then the best player dominates the ball and shots in the 4th. That is why Jordan was better at age 34 than he was at age 26. Because he understood that he could conserve his shots and energy for when it mattered and let other get "into" the game. I believe Dirk can do that. But it is up to Nellie to control the play selections....

MavsFanFinley · 10-21-2003, 11:34 PM

Quote:

That is what Nellie has to do. Let the player get their shots throughout the game... but come the 4th quarter, there is one player on the Mavs that has to be taking the shots (or at least creating for others). And if you don't believe that is the case then the Mavs will never win a title.

I won't argue with that. I wouldn't have a problem with Dirk being the go-to guy in the 4th quarter. I never said he shouldn't be the go-to guy.

While everyone is saying the right things, does anyone really think Jamison will be happy coming off the bench with only 10-12 shot attempts? We haven't seen Walker play yet, but does anyone think he'll be happy with a dozen shot attempts? Does anyone believe Finley will be satisfied with 10 shot attempts, if that, in 30+ minutes of action? What about Nash? He played 18 minutes and took only 4 shots.

It may be preseason, but it doesn't seem like we're trying to make any corrections.

We could be in for a disastrous start.

Murphy3 · 10-21-2003, 11:39 PM

I would think that jamison would at least be at around 14 attempts per game

Rod1975 · 10-21-2003, 11:54 PM

Just got back from the game, it was a very lackluster effort.
You could tell the players were'nt focused.
Aside from a select few, the players seemed to be in a bit of a daze.

Josh Howard looked good.
From my seat, I could'nt tell Daniels and Howard apart.
AJ got to the hoop and missed alot of bunnies.
Fortson missed some bunnies also.
I have to say one thing, while Shawn was in the game, he held down the middle pretty well.
I saw Gary Busey.

Can we get Kirilenko? He carved us up tonight. That guy is gonna have a breakout season, he tore us up without breaking a sweat.
Matt Harpring played very well during his minutes as well.
Maurice Williams can play.
Carlos Arroyo broke down the defense quite well.
Raja Bell was his usual ballhawk self.

The Jazz are'nt as bad off as people may think.

Finley spoke to the crowd and introduced Walker and Delk to the AAC. They were in street clothes.

EricaLubarsky · 10-22-2003, 12:03 AM

Thanks Rod. I would have liked to have been there, even though it would have been hard to watch.

Sorry you didnt get to see AW and TD (the smaller one) [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

MavsFanFinley · 10-22-2003, 12:26 AM

It sure looks like he's lost a lot of the weight in this picture.

EricaLubarsky · 10-22-2003, 12:39 AM

I heard on another thread that he lost 25 pounds and dramatically reduced his body fat.

I thought the Celts were just trying to get rid of him when they said he was in the best shape of his life.

MavsFanatik33 · 10-22-2003, 09:42 AM

Walker seemed a little out of shape last season, so it's good to see he's slimmed down. DOESNT MEAN YOU CAN SHOOT MORE THREES THOUGH!

Maringa · 10-22-2003, 09:54 AM

Continuing the discussion on shots per player, in order to fit the scheme and keep players happy, is it possible that Nellie will implement an offense in which time per possession is reduced and increase the number of shots? If the Mavericks can take an open, good shot within 10 to fifteen seconds, this would allow the 5 main players at least 16 to 18 shots per game. Other shots can be spread around to other players as needed. This is going to be very interesting indeed.....

On a side note, it appears that Utah won't be a cellar team this year...I expect them to surprise everyone and win 30 games...

Murphy3 · 10-22-2003, 10:08 AM

18 attempts for all 5 main players puts the Mavs at 90 attempts per game.
Last year, the Mavs led the league with 85.2 attempts per game. Hell, 90 attempts would blow away what the Mavs did last year and we haven't even discussed some of the other players that will have significant roles this year.

For some reason, I dont' think you can shorten the shot clock enough to get each of the main five players 16-18 attempts per game AND insure that the players are taking high quality shots.

Basically, some of the five 'main' players shouldn't get 16-18 attempts. I'd argue that only one person should have more than 18 attempts and that would be dirk. Personally, I don't think anyone else on the team should have more than 14 attempts per game. If they cannot handle that, then they don't need to be on the court.

LRB · 10-22-2003, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Bayliss

Quote:

That likely will happen. The Mavs are looking at a disaster here. I wasn't suggesting 14 and 10 attempts would be acceptable as an average, but more fine if others are hitting their shots as well.

I know I don't want to see Dirk taking 20 shots and 10 ft attempts when other guys are only taking 7, 8, 9 or 12 and missing. It's not just cause they are not adapting, but they're getting a shot here and there. No way for any of them to get in any sort of rhythm.

If we're putting the ball in Dirk's hand and posting him up constantly, what does that do to Walker and Jamison's post up game. If Nelson isn't running plays and guys are standing around waiting to see what Dirk is going to do, what then?

I know I don't want to see everyone else reign in their games for the sake of Dirk getting X amount of shots and touches every night.

That's fine. In Boston KC Jones kept everyone happy. McHale would get so many... Parrish... DJ... etc etc. But come the 4th quarter everyone in the frickin' building knew who was going to dominate the shots for Boston.

That is what Nellie has to do. Let the player get their shots throughout the game... but come the 4th quarter, there is one player on the Mavs that has to be taking the shots (or at least creating for others). And if you don't believe that is the case then the Mavs will never win a title.

That was the way just about every team has won for about 20 years. They will share until crunchtime then the best player dominates the ball and shots in the 4th. That is why Jordan was better at age 34 than he was at age 26. Because he understood that he could conserve his shots and energy for when it mattered and let other get "into" the game. I believe Dirk can do that. But it is up to Nellie to control the play selections....

Bayliss I totally agree, but too often last year it seem to work in reverse of this. Dirk would get the lion's share of shots in quarters 1 -3, but come the fourth quarter would hardly touch the ball. I say spread the shots around during the game, but come crunch time force feed the ball to the big German.