Trust the Process - Mavs Edition - Page 20 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Luke · 06-07-2018, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Bamba would be an absolute STUD if averaged 13-18 PPG... Personally, I'm expecting his upside to be closer to 12-14 PPG, with perennial All-NBA Defense honors for the duration of his career... I mean, I don't think any of us would be mad if he ended up being as good as Tyson Chandler, and Ty never topped 12 PPG in a single season.

You're not drafting Bamba to go HAM on offense, you're drafting him to anchor your defense and grab boards. That's what he do... Everything else is gravy.

I put his absolute upside at 17/18ish a game. And I think highly enough of him to where I think his low side is around 13. Again, I'm not talking about next year or even 2-3 years from now. When he's 26-27 years old, I would be disappointed if he were at 12 points per game. Ultimately, I think he finds a happy spot in the 15 PPG range and will spend much of his career as the team's #3 or #4 best scorer.

And I completely understand that you're not drafting him to be your offensive go to guy. That was my point. Do you go with a guy with lesser offensive expectations but can be a force defensively or do you go with a guy that you think can be a force on the offensive end if that is available.. What do you value more for this Mavs team?

Y'all could very well be right.. Maybe instead of 13-18 range with bamba it's more of a 10-16 range. We will see. In my opinion, it all depends on how much that outside shot develops.

Underdog · 06-07-2018, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke

I put his absolute upside at 17/18ish a game. And I think highly enough of him to where I think his low side is around 13. Again, I'm not talking about next year or even 2-3 years from now. When he's 26-27 years old, I would be disappointed if he were at 12 points per game. Ultimately, I think he finds a happy spot in the 15 PPG range and will spend much of his career as the team's #3 or #4 best scorer.

And I completely understand that you're not drafting him to be your offensive go to guy. That was my point. Do you go with a guy with lesser offensive expectations but can be a force defensively or do you go with a guy that you think can be a force on the offensive end if that is available.. What do you value more for this Mavs team?

I think Bamba is worth #5 based on his defense alone. If there was some kind of way to guarantee 18 PPG on top of that, then he'd probably be pushing the #1 spot.

But I've said before that what the Mavs need most right now is a Dirk replacement (a go-to guy who can be your #1 scorer)... Which is why I'd still rank players like Ayton, Bagley, Doncic or a healthy Porter above Bamba, since all you can really bank on right now is his defense/rebounding... But there's a good chance that none of those guys are there at #5 (or maybe the FO doesn't have faith in MPJ's health) and Bamba is the best player left. Which is also fine, since there are plenty of alpha scorers in next year's draft... I think DSJ (highest vertical in the league) and Bamba (longest wingspan in the league) could be a helluva core to build around.

tap2390 · 06-07-2018, 12:21 PM

Vegas sees Houston as clear front runner for LeBron. We should draft BPA but if that's not a center we better pursue Capela. DSJ/ Wes/ Barnes/ Porter/ Capela sounds great.

sefant77 · 06-07-2018, 01:15 PM

If Lebron ends up in Houston its pretty much via a S&T where Cleveland gets some really late 1st in 2022+. Means they dont have to dump contracts or let Capela walk (who has again just a 7m cap hold).

With his low cap hold Capela doesnt go anywhere.

EricaLubarsky · 06-07-2018, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tap2390

Vegas sees Houston as clear front runner for LeBron. We should draft BPA but if that's not a center we better pursue Capela. DSJ/ Wes/ Barnes/ Porter/ Capela sounds great.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/12...salary-cap-how

TLDR version:

1) Rockets dump everyone but Harden, Gordon, and Capela. Paul and Harden share 47mill - both can earn 35.4mill each. LeBron has basically said with Paul's support in the NBPA association that he wants to earn big bucks to set precedent for older stars to earn the big bucks so it seems unlikely that one or both of them will take a big discount. It also seems unlikely that the Rockets could jettison all of their minor contracts without getting anything back. They'd have to overpay under-the-cap teams for the privilege (cha-ching) of taking their salary. It also means that they'd hit the cap with Capela counting toward 7mill. If we offered 25mill, Rockets could match, taking their salary up to 117-119mill-- just under the luxury tax.

Harden - 30.4m
LeBron/Paul - 47m
Capela 25.2m
Gordon 13.5m
---------------
116.1m. Luxury tax at 119m. They'd also have to pay to dump Anderson (20m) and Tucker (8m) without recieving salary back. They also may want to dump Nene (3.6m)

They end up just shy of the luxury tax threshold and way over the cap with 5-6 players on contract.

2) Rockets trade away Gordon or Capela and get no salary back - Gets rid of some of the appeal and they have to take back zero salary. Since they can't take back ANY salary for Gordon, it means that they are both limited to trading him to teams under the cap AND since they can't take back salary, it means that the team under the cap can pressure the Rockets for a good deal. That will bring the value down on Gordon/Capela-- maybe to the point that the Rockets will have to pay a team just to dump quality talent. Rockets end up with Harden, LeBron, Paul, and not much else.

3) Cavs trade LeBron for Anderson, Capela, and some late firsts - Maybe? Cavs would get some value in first rounders and Capela is solid, but Anderson is overpaid and who are they as a team after that trade? Mavs could mess this whole thing up by making a fat offer on Capela unless he agrees to an extension before hitting RFA. Lots of moving parts. If they trade Capela's contract prior to FA, then we could poach him from the Cavs. If it's after the free agency period, the RFA rules could introduce a lot of complication.

4) SnT for James - The BYE makes sign and trades near impossible without a third team. That third team needs to be able to absorb salary, which means they are going to get assets for facilitating. Cavs would want assets too, making this unlikely. Rockets have to provide something to sweeten the deal for both the Cavs and the facilitating team and still can't end up more than 6mill over the cap, which means retaining Capela could be hard. Mavs can either fleece the Rockets to make this happen and/or steal Capela while they're in the process.

sefant77 · 06-07-2018, 01:57 PM

Paul allready lost 11m when he opted into 24m so he could get traded to Houston instead of becoming an UFA and get max deal starting at 35m. Thats why everyone say that Morey allready promised Paul the supermax when he would opt in and force a trade to Houston. Paul fought so hard for the rule change, he is not going to give up close to 100m just so Lebron can join Houston.

Ah and whats the point for James to join Houston when there is just Harden and the always injuried Paul left? With no other assets or cap space...

mac222b · 06-07-2018, 02:00 PM

Harden signed an extension already though, right. He cant renegotiate

EricaLubarsky · 06-07-2018, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Paul allready lost 11m when he opted into 24m so he could get traded to Houston instead of becoming an UFA and get max deal starting at 35m. Thats why everyone say that Morey allready promised Paul the supermax when he would opt in and force a trade to Houston. Paul fought so hard for the rule change, he is not going to give up close to 100m just so Lebron can join Houston.

Ah and whats the point for James to join Houston when there is just Harden and the always injuried Paul left? With no other assets or cap space...

If Paul gets 35m

Either LeBron has to accept 12mill OR they have to trade away Capela/Gordon.

No good options if Paul demands his 35m

SMC0007 · 06-07-2018, 02:35 PM

I just wanna see Paul, Harden and LJ get payback on GS. Make it happen...while we build our team in the shadows.

mac222b · 06-07-2018, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

If Paul gets 35m

Either LeBron has to accept 12mill OR they have to trade away Capela/Gordon.

No good options if Paul demands his 35m

They also have PJ Tucker's decent deal they could maybe move. But as Sefant says, zero depth. Mbah-Moute is UFA

Capela cap hold is only 7m. So they could go over to sign him, right? As long as Lebron fits under along with the Capela cap hold

Also Ariza UFA

EricaLubarsky · 06-07-2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

They also have PJ Tucker's decent deal they could maybe move. But as Sefant says, zero depth. Mbah-Moute is UFA

Capela cap hold is only 7m. So they could go over to sign him, right? As long as Lebron fits under along with the Capela cap hold

They can sign players (LeBron) all the way to the cap and then go over to sign Capela to a larger contract (he counts for 7mill, but they could go to the cap to sign LeBron and then sign him for 25.2m after, putting them 18.2mill over the cap.

Or they could nab Lebron in a sign-and-trade if they can find a third team to facilitate. They could go 6 mill over the cap to do that (thus, LeBron can get 18mill instead of 12 if Paul gets his max). Then they sign Capela for 25.2mill. They'd be in the luxury tax, but they'd potentially have Harden, LeBron, Paul, Gordon, and Capela. Not much else, though, and they'd have a lot of pressure to win. Will Lebron sacrifice 20mill a year to go to that team? Signs point to no, but who knows? Rockets would probably have to give away all of their future picks to dump Anderson and maybe a couple of others, but that might be their best bet.

mac222b · 06-07-2018, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

They can sign players (LeBron) all the way to the cap and then go over to sign Capela to a larger contract (he counts for 7mill, but they could go to the cap to sign LeBron and then sign him for 25.2m after, putting them 18.2mill over the cap.

Or they could nab Lebron in a sign-and-trade if they can find a third team to facilitate. They could go 6 mill over the cap to do that (thus, LeBron can get 18mill instead of 12 if Paul gets his max). Then they sign Capela for 25.2mill. They'd be in the luxury tax, but they'd potentially have Harden, LeBron, Paul, Gordon, and Capela. Not much else, though, and they'd have a lot of pressure to win. Will Lebron sacrifice 20mill a year to go to that team? Signs point to no, but who knows? Rockets would probably have to give away all of their future picks to dump Anderson and maybe a couple of others, but that might be their best bet.

I don't know that they can dump Anderson even with giving away all those picks. Even bad teams with cap space want to sometimes use that on FA. I guess a team could trade for him and stretch waive?

I want to see "boy genius" Morey squirm. What was that German word again? Schaden-something?

saclare · 06-07-2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

I don't know that they can dump Anderson even with giving away all those picks. Even bad teams with cap space want to sometimes use that on FA. I guess a team could trade for him and stretch waive?

I want to see "boy genius" Morey squirm. What was that German word again? Schaden-something?

I think it is Schaden-Dirk, but I can't be sure...

Underdog · 06-07-2018, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I just wanna see Paul, Harden and LJ get payback on GS. Make it happen...while we build our team in the shadows.

Any scenario that brings a ring to Houston is right the fuck out in my book... James Harden, Chris Paul, that entire city and their fanbase can suck it.

sefant77 · 06-07-2018, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Any scenario that brings a ring to Houston is right the fuck out in my book... James Harden, Chris Paul, that entire city and their fanbase can suck it.

this

BPo001 · 06-07-2018, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Any scenario that brings a ring to Houston is right the fuck out in my book... James Harden, Chris Paul, that entire city and their fanbase can suck it.

+1. Fuck Houston.

SMC0007 · 06-08-2018, 09:08 AM

F Golden State just as hard. We aren't winning it so I don't want the Spurs or GS to win it. I'm ready for new faces in the finals. Barkley had it right, Draymond especially needs a punch to his face.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-08-2018, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

F Golden State just as hard. We aren't winning it so I don't want the Spurs or GS to win it. I'm ready for new faces in the finals. Barkley had it right, Draymond especially needs a punch to his face.

You're telling me with a straight face that you want Floppy and Bitchy to win a ring? I don't like GS, but there is no player on their team as hateful as Paul and Harden.

SMC0007 · 06-08-2018, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

You're telling me with a straight face that you want Floppy and Bitchy to win a ring? I don't like GS, but there is no player on their team as hateful as Paul and Harden.

They all flop, hardcore. Durant, Curry, Harden, Paul. I wanted Houston to win. I'm tired of GS and mostly it's because of Draymond and Klays face, but secondly I don't want any franchise aside from the Mavs to dominate the league. I would rather Houston had won than GS get another ring. F em.

Underdog · 06-08-2018, 12:00 PM

Nah.

tap2390 · 06-08-2018, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

F Golden State just as hard. We aren't winning it so I don't want the Spurs or GS to win it. I'm ready for new faces in the finals. Barkley had it right, Draymond especially needs a punch to his face.

This. So much this. F Golden State and their sense of entitlement and arrogance. As far as I’m concerned they haven’t earned anything since KD got there.

SMC0007 · 06-08-2018, 01:22 PM

Yah. F em, and any front runner fans that arent from there.

Underdog · 06-08-2018, 01:53 PM

Yeah, I hate GSW too... But they're my 2nd-least favorite team in the league behind HOU.

Maybe I'm a bit more biased because I STILL have to deal with their trolls on this site (thank god they didn't beat the Warriors or I would have had to shut this whole place down!)

SMC0007 · 06-08-2018, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Yeah, I hate GSW too... But they're my 2nd-least favorite team in the league behind HOU.

Maybe I'm a bit more biased because I STILL have to deal with their trolls on this site (thank god they didn't beat the Warriors or I would have had to shut this whole place down!)

Yea furr sure, that plays a part for me as well. I hate the Lakers, warriors, spurs and Houston about the same, but the next worst thing is one of them winning multiple titles and dominating the league. Its gs turn to get my hate.

Bryan_Wilson · 06-08-2018, 02:05 PM

I'm confident if anyone rooting for Houston actually spent significant time around ppl from Houston, or time IN Houston(maybe as part of some sort of mandated court probation) they would quickly forget ever saying they would root for Houston under any circumstance.

SMC0007 · 06-08-2018, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

I'm confident if anyone rooting for Houston actually spent significant time around ppl from Houston, or time IN Houston(maybe as part of some sort of mandated court probation) they would quickly forget ever saying they would root for Houston under any circumstance.

Lol. Its circumstantial re prioritization bruh

Underdog · 06-11-2018, 08:39 PM

@ESefko: Interesting odds on DeMarcus Cousins' landing spot for 2018-19:
New Orleans Pelicans 2/1, Dallas Mavericks 5/2, Los Angeles Lakers 4/1, Cleveland Cavaliers 8/1, Field 15/1.

sefant77 · 06-11-2018, 08:52 PM

Hmmpf, i just dont hope they like Bamba more than Porter but pick Porter because Cuban wanna run after Cousins...

Me.B · 06-11-2018, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Hmmpf, i just dont hope they like Bamba more than Porter but pick Porter because Cuban wanna run after Cousins...

Mash unit.

Me.B · 06-11-2018, 09:56 PM

Just for the sake of reference. If Jackson is still on the board at 5 their phone is going to be ringing like crazy.

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1...349238785?s=21