Josh Doesn't Care Anymore

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Mike Miller...Schmike Miller...it doesn't matter. I've been trying to tell you guys. Addition by subtraction is a very real thing, as we have seen. Just get rid of J-Ho. Pretend he's a free agent and let him walk. Take a first-round draft pick and an expiring contract.

That's one of the major things I see coming with a Josh trade. I believe in the addition by subtraction theory.

Now for what in return, I'd like to be a little more greedy and try to get some more in return.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

That's one of the major things I see coming with a Josh trade. I believe in the addition by subtraction theory.

Now for what in return, I'd like to be a little more greedy and try to get some more in return.

If Josh goes, I'd like to see more of a playmaker at the 2/3. A guy who can defend, make an open shot and pass the ball well would be nice. Josh Howard probably won't get you equal value, especially with the way our FO negotiates IMHO.

You know what we need? An energy guy to start the game. There is little energy from our starting unit lately. I really hope GG gets another shot. From what Fish says, he and Singleton are the last ones in the gym these days. What I don't get is that Green isn't a bad player. He has some holes in his game, but being benched like this is too far IMO.

[purplefrog]

We like our team.....

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If Josh goes, I'd like to see more of a playmaker at the 2/3. A guy who can defend, make an open shot and pass the ball well would be nice. Josh Howard probably won't get you equal value, especially with the way our FO negotiates IMHO.

You know what we need? An energy guy to start the game. There is little energy from our starting unit lately. I really hope GG gets another shot. From what Fish says, he and Singleton are the last ones in the gym these days. What I don't get is that Green isn't a bad player. He has some holes in his game, but being benched like this is too far IMO.

This is what I really want.

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

As for Josh and the player in return. You can label them a SG, a slasher, whatever...the player has to be consistent/efficient. If he's attacking the basket, he has to do it at a great rate and really help the team out. If he's going to be a shooter, he's gotta be able to shoot the lights out from anywhere on the court. Whatever the role is...they just have to be consistent on a nightly basis.

[Tokey41]

I'm really curious how other fans around the league view Howard now as a player... after all that horrible news over the summer and his lackluster performances, you have to think he's not in the same class of trading chip he was in a year ago. We probably couldn't get a Redd, Butler, West, for him at this point whereas I think his value used to be that high... if we're planning on trading him shouldn't we try and boost his value more? Give him the ball, let him score back to back 50 point games and let's get a Kaman (that trade would be a steal for us in my opinion, if we could pull that off i'd be ecstatic).

[jamyoa]

We Mavs. fans know that with this team the Mavs aren't going anywhere. Mark needs to trade J. Howard, Stack, even Diop for another superstar, yes I would try to get Shawn M., or T. Mac.
The Mavs r just an avg. team right now. Let's face it when u struggle to beat teams like the Clippers, Grizzlies, or even the Knicks u know this team isn't a contender at all. Mark C. must fix what didn't need fixing in the first place. He should have never traded Harris for a worn out pt. gd.
Harris was good in all areas, He drove to the basket, took charges, played defense, shot 3 ptr's. He always gave the Mavs energy. I like Kidd, but his best days r behind him.
Mark had a chance to trade Josh H. for Pau Gasol last yr., but the fool listened to a dumb coach who hadn't been coaching but 3 1/2 yrs. Avery didn't want Howard to go, He wanted to trade Harris for Kidd. Avery wanted Howard to be the superstar of the Mavs. He wanted to build around Howard.
Avery now goes on radio shows saying he never wanted that trade to happen, when all along he's the one who pushed for it. Another thing for all u Avery supporters, if he's so good why hasn't any N.B.A. team hired him. Let's c there's been 7, or 8 coaches fired. No owner wants a control freak, or a coach who panics during the playoffs, and one who treats his players like kids. I know I went into different subjects, but unless Mark makes a change a.s.a.p. The Mavs r not going anywhere, and yes they r very boring to watch, especially when Howard is in the line-up. Mavs play better without him!

[mavsgirl4134]

Oh no, not you again. Holy crap, this is too much.

[fluid.forty.one]

wrong thread

[basketballgirl25]

Originally Posted by mavsgirl4134

Oh no, not you again. Holy crap, this is too much.

off topic, but I see your location is Cocoa, Florida do you live near Cocoa Beach? I go there for like 3 weeks every summer so just was wondering if you lived near there because I have friends in that area

[mavsgirl4134]

Originally Posted by basketballgirl25

off topic, but I see your location is Cocoa, Florida do you live near Cocoa Beach? I go there for like 3 weeks every summer so just was wondering if you lived near there because I have friends in that area

Yep, I sure do, I go there just about everyday. Cocoa is the inland part, near Merritt Island.

[BGMaverick9]

Josh Howard:

+ by -

sponsored by -

[monty55555]

If Howard can’t show up, Mavs need to ship him out

DALLAS — Admit it, you showed up at the AAC Tuesday night thinking that maybe the injury-decimated Los Angeles Clippers would be forced to pick five guys out of the crowd in order to field a team, and you just might get a chance to play in your first NBA game.

And, of course, you’d be right there on the floor, looking for a 3, when the game came down to the final minute of play, as seemingly every Mavs game does, no matter who they’re playing.

One thing for sure: You’d at least show up for the fourth quarter, and that’s more than we can say about the Mavericks’ Josh Howard.

Jeez, I hate picking on Josh like that, but there it is.

It wasn’t so long ago that Josh was my favorite Mav to talk to when I showed up at the AAC. I loved his talent and his potential. Now, he sees a guy coming with a notebook or a tape recorder, he scuttles out of the room like a bashful cockroach.

Then again, guess I shouldn’t use any form of the word "roach" when talking about Josh.

In any case, that’s not why I think the Mavs have to start thinking about looking to trade Howard in the best deal they can find.

He doesn’t have to make nice to the media. If Josh wants to blame us for his troubles, no biggie. That’s been done by much bigger stars than him.

What he does need to do is be what coach Rick Carlisle has been insisting he is since before the season began.

He has to be the Mavs’ most important player.

Maybe Howard can be that player in a trade, because he’s almost never been that guy on the court this season.

I’m beginning to believe he never will be.

Yes, I know he may not yet have completely recovered from that ankle sprain earlier in the season.

There are mixed messages on that front, depending on who’s asked.

"I hope not," Carlisle said when asked if the ankle was still hampering Howard.

"It appears to be doing well."

Owner Mark Cuban isn’t so sure.

"He looks like he’s favoring it," Cuban said, dripping sweat onto my notebook during his pregame stair-stepper ritual.

OK, that’s about as clear as mud.

What is crystal clear is that Howard hasn’t been the same player since the injury.

I wish I could believe that was the reason, and that he’s not just in another of his disinterested funks.

In the 11 starts he’s made since coming back from the ankle sprain, Howard has scored 12 or fewer points three times, including his 12-point effort Sunday in the loss to Memphis.

More telling for a player of Howard’s talent is the fact that he had two or fewer rebounds seven times in those 11 games.

Carlisle says Howard’s shrinking numbers are more a product of inconsistent minutes rather than inconsistent play.

"His minutes haven’t been the same because he’s worked back into it somewhat gradually," Carlisle said before the Mavs had to stage a desperate, late fourth-quarter rally to edge the hapless Clippers 107-102 (guess they didn’t need you after all). "I wouldn’t put a lot of weight on that."

That’s consistent with the organization’s steady support for Howard throughout a disastrous 2008, when he admitted smoking dope during a local radio interview and then showed up on YouTube disrespecting the national anthem.

His heartfelt apology aside when this season began, Howard, by distancing himself at every opportunity, now seems to blame the media for those public relations disasters, rather than the man he sees in the mirror every day.

"He just doesn’t trust you guys," Cuban said.

Understandable.

We were the brutes who pointed out that in both instances Howard had critically impaled himself on his own tongue.

Shame on us.

Cuban said Howard is simply doing what he was told to do by the team, to wit, "You’re better off, when you don’t know what to say, [to] say nothing."

Like I said earlier, it’s not Howard’s relationship with the media that’s the most critical issue here. It’s whether Josh can be what Carlisle says he is and believes he needs to be for the Mavericks to have a chance to again be an elite team and get past the first round of the playoffs.

Carlisle still believes it, or says he does.

"Same things I said back then," he said when asked why he thinks Howard is still the Mavs’ most important — but not necessarily best — player.

Those reasons: Maybe the team’s best perimeter defender, good rebounder, the ability to score inside and outside.

If only Howard would do those things consistently.

Instead, he’s as liable to disappear when the Mavs need him most — like in the fourth quarter — as he is to show up with 29 points and nine rebounds, as he did on Dec. 28 in LA, when Dirk Nowitzki was sitting out a one-game suspension.

That’s the Josh Howard that the Mavs need every night. That guy is critical to the Mavs’ success this season. In conjunction with what Nowitzki and Jason Terry bring offensively, that Josh might well be the team’s most important player.

But if he continues to be an enigma, if the Mavs never know from one night to the next which Josh is going to walk out on the floor, maybe they’re better off hoping he can juice his numbers a bit, and then look to deal him for a player who may be a little less talented, but a lot more consistent.

Tuesday night was fairly typical, for both the inconsistent Mavs and for Howard.

They let the Clippers, who were missing three starters and dressed just eight players, hang around until the Mavs had to finish the game with an 11-1 run to pull it out.

Howard finished with 22 points and six rebounds. He had two of those points and one of those rebounds in the fourth quarter.

If that’s what the Mavs really expect from the most important player on the team, they’re in more trouble than most of us thought.

http://www.star-telegram.com/287/story/1127494.html

[darkwitzki]

So which is better? JHo for TMac or JHo for Bargs/Parker?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by darkwitzki

So which is better? JHo for TMac or JHo for Bargs/Parker?

Tmac has the chance for the bigger return, IMO. Unless Bargs becomes another Dirk. Parker is already 33 and is a short term fix.

[SMC0007]

Why would Houston trade Tmac for JHO?

[LSMF]

Remember when I used to always say we ought to trade Josh for Gerald Wallace or Caron Butler? Then someone would say " But that's a lateral move", is it still "Lateral" now? LOL

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Why would Houston trade Tmac for JHO?

Why would there be a trade within the division to begin with?

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by longsufferingmavsfan

Remember when I used to always say we ought to trade Josh for Gerald Wallace or Caron Butler? Then someone would say " But that's a lateral move", is it still "Lateral" now? LOL

For Butler, it's not even a case of the talent...Butler is the better player anyways. That's what the point was with him, and that made it very unlikely that he was available for Howard.

Wallace is perceived as a lateral move, but I think he brings more intangibles that make him better than Josh. So the perception is there, but I think it's an upgrade even more than the + by - aspect of it.

[MavericksFan5912]

What's really sad about JHo is the phenonemal talent that he's wasting... you know where he might thrive? With a player like KG and the Celtics. He seems to me like he needs to show him what hard work is.

[MainEv3nt]

i dont think we need to trade josh just yet, he hasn't been in the media since the season started an i think he will grow out of it. just like how artest grew out of it i think josh will 2.

[ty]

Originally Posted by MavericksFan5912

What's really sad about JHo is the phenonemal talent that he's wasting... you know where he might thrive? With a player like KG and the Celtics. He seems to me like he needs to show him what hard work is.

As if Dirk and Kidd don't work hard enough?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by ty

As if Dirk and Kidd don't work hard enough?

No KIDDing. (easy now...)

I know Dirk isn't the most vocal leader, but if any player on the Mavs doesn't follow his example of work ethic, their fault.

[SMC0007]

^Cue Gerald Green??... perhaps.

[Murphy3]

To think or write that Josh is the Mavs most important player is idiotic.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Murphy3

To think or write that Josh is the Mavs most important player is idiotic.

Exhibit 1:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

It seems that you miss the value of Howard. Howard is the Most Important Player with the Mavs. Namely because his scoring, rebounding and for the most part defense. To me, the closest player to Howard when it comes to an defensive all-around player is Prince. Howard is a better scorer and rebounder and better slasher to the hole.

If the Mavs lose Howard they lose their MOST important piece for the future. I would actually give up my season tickets if they did this as a protect, and influence about 10 other season ticket holders to do the same. Howard is one of the best up and coming All-Stars in the NBA, and should be paid as such. Dont forget that the Mavs need to play catch-up from his ole contract money. The Mavs got him for a bargain for 4 years after this season.

Exhibit 2:

Originally Posted by creditXpert2003

Dirk is the Most Valuable Player, but Josh is the most important. Josh is needed for EVERYTHING on the court, especially to spark the defense. Where did you get ruining the salary cap from Howard? The Mavs are under the cap from 2007 forward. Take a look at this. Who is the Mavs MVP in 2009-2010 with this current roster? Howard! Howard should get 8-10 million a year with this new contract, but there are alot of restrictions in place right now for an increase from his current contract for an early extension. It is alot more complicated than you think. I can name about 6 things working against this deal for now. These obstacles have been in place for all extensions for contracts.

[darkwitzki]

Go for the deal, Let's get it done and fast..

[fluid.forty.one]

F*ck Josh Howard.

[LonghornDub]

We can only wonder what sort of contributor Josh would be if he had been allowed to continue developing on his pre-2006/2007 trajectory. Instead, Avery forced him into this "#2 scorer" role that didn't suit his skills or his brain at all.

[craggmac]

At this point I would trade Josh Howard for Darrell Armstrong. At leat he was a good locker room presence, he played his a$$ off any time he was in the game and he actually cared about the team. That's three times more than what Josh is giving the team.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

We can only wonder what sort of contributor Josh would be if he had been allowed to continue developing on his pre-2006/2007 trajectory. Instead, Avery forced him into this "#2 scorer" role that didn't suit his skills or his brain at all.

yeah. It's all Avery's fault [eyeroll].
This is probably what happened:

Coach: "Stop it Josh, don't grab anymore rebounds, and don't start passing now. You're my #2 scorer. And why don't you just settle for jumpshots? It'll work well in my unimaginative isolation offense. The way you play is exactly how I won championships in San Antonio."

Josh: "No way, man (whine)! I'm gonna make the all-star team and get Paid as a great glue guy. Stop trying to boss me into increased production! I'm gonna go smoke weed and have parties because you are so mean!"


But you'd rather have:
Coach: "Listen team, I know we need another scorer to take the heat off Dirk, and Josh has shown the talent, and has a history of level headed leadership in college, and works hard in every aspect of the game, but I don't want him to be the #2 guy because I like it when Dirk gets doubled and every one else fails to get anything done. And besides, Josh will melt down as soon as he gets a taste of importance."

Josh: "That sounds great to me, I won't act up in any way. Ever. I love the Mavs."



Meanwhile, someone else was saying things like, "You want Josh in this KG trade? No way, man!" and "You want Josh Howard for Ron Artest??? The Josh Howard??? No way, man!"

[mavs777]

another one ttt

[tcat075]

Gotta love Josh's play of late. It sounds funny, but last night, as we were in the 4th quarter and needed to score, I thought to myself, "Josh is our best option."

Yes. In the 4th quarter, in the clutch. Josh. I know. Really shows how he's been playing as of late.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Gotta love Josh's play of late. It sounds funny, but last night, as we were in the 4th quarter and needed to score, I thought to myself, "Josh is our best option."

Yes. In the 4th quarter, in the clutch. Josh. I know. Really shows how he's been playing as of late.

Yup...that's what he needs to become also. He's our most athletic wing man and has to take advantage of that.

How refreshing that now we have a slashing wingman playing in the fourth quarter. If RC has done nothing else but fix josh, he's done the organization great.

[Lor20]

I like josh when josh WANTS to play hard - the problem is that he doesn't always have that mentality. if he can get his ankle and wrist fixed in the offseason he can be very valuable for the mavs next season. especially if we add another piece or two with the expiring contracts of stack and others.
DA seems to have helped josh a lot - if we can build on that, maybe get a low post threat (shaq or bosh) and maybe a good weak side shooter who can drive we should be in a good position.

[sefant77]

Why he is now listed on yahoo with 6-5?

He was (and still is on nba.com) always 6-7.

[darkwitzki]

He grew an inch shorter every season..

[CadBane]

So I guess pot really does stunt your growth...and regress it.