Postgame Thread - Mavs beat the Celts in a nailbiter

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by CadBane

The value of Dirk and Tyson is so critical. I find it absurd Dirk has fallen out of the MVP race with some...people need to realize the Mavs went 2-8 without him (I'm including the Grizz game where he got tossed after 10 minutes) and 32-7 with him. Thar's just night and day. Dirk's peripheral stats aren't necessarily MVP caliber, but he leads the NBA in +/-, has the best TS% among the stars (last I checked) and is clearly the most valuable player to his team.

Yeah, Dirk and Tyson both have a Net +/- per 100 possessions of 23.9 and 16.0 respectively. Those numbers speak for themselves, me thinks.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

I would consider a Landry-type player much more than a "minor" move myself. Assuming a reasonably productive Peja and a Roddy who produces at even 50% of expectations, adding someone of Landry's caliber would make this team seriously scary, IMO.

Right, it was just an example....it doesn't SEEM like that huge but it could pay off in a huge way. That's the kind of move I see happening if one does happen.

If a move is done, I see it being incredibly opportunistic but not a move that grabs everybody's attention.

[jthig32]

Kidd did shuffle his pivot foot a tiny, tiny bit as he reloaded after the shot fake. But it's the kind of thing that goes uncalled 100 times every single game.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Kidd did shuffle his pivot foot a tiny, tiny bit as he reloaded after the shot fake. But it's the kind of thing that goes uncalled 100 times every single game.

That was pretty much my take on it.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Kidd did shuffle his pivot foot a tiny, tiny bit as he reloaded after the shot fake. But it's the kind of thing that goes uncalled 100 times every single game.

I will call it a crab-three, its legal then

[Usually Lurkin]

Haywood, on the otherhand, took about 6 full steps with the ball once while he was trying to figure out what to do with it. Top of the key, 2nd quarter maybe. It was hilarious. I couldn't believe it wasn't called.

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

Ugh! So tired of hearing this....even on the NBA 2k11 Kellogg and Harlan mentions this every single game! .... Give me a break

i know! Whenever I am playing an east team with the Mavs they talk about how they played well against the east last year and then go into how it isn't the east teams causing them trouble in the playoffs

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I will call it a crab-three, its legal then

Oh! A phong is ringing!

[sefant77]

in honor of Kidds shuffle three an oldie but goldie for the lulz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk2hITJ1iGA

[RareMilk]

Lol you guys are silly that is why I play NBA Elite 11...

[OSUmavsfan]

Originally Posted by CadBane

The value of Dirk and Tyson is so critical. I find it absurd Dirk has fallen out of the MVP race with some...people need to realize the Mavs went 2-8 without him (I'm including the Grizz game where he got tossed after 10 minutes) and 32-7 with him. Thar's just night and day. Dirk's peripheral stats aren't necessarily MVP caliber, but he leads the NBA in +/-, has the best TS% among the stars (last I checked) and is clearly the most valuable player to his team.

I hear so many people using the Cavs' struggles to justify Lebron as MVP, when the exact same argument could be used even more effectively for Dirk, as the team struggles in the same season without him. Also, the Mavs have shown that they're better than the Heat with Dirk healthy. If he keeps up his play of late, he'll re-enter the MVP race though I feel.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by sefant77

in honor of Kidds shuffle three an oldie but goldie for the lulz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk2hITJ1iGA

That video drives me nuts every time I see it. HE SWITCHES HIS PIVOT FOOT THREE TIMES IN TEN SECONDS WITH A REF STARING RIGHT AT HIM!!!!!

Then he proceeds to travel a couple more times. There's another video where they circle and annotate all the travels.

[LonghornDub]

If they called traveling in the NBA the way they call it in college, it'd be a considerably different game both on the wings and in the paint.

[mac222b]

I love how there are two competing post game threads. Really livened up my Friday night.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by sefant77

in honor of Kidds shuffle three an oldie but goldie for the lulz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk2hITJ1iGA

Man, that has to be one of the funnier videos I've seen lately.

[sefant77]

Maggette was #1 in here, have fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSZGC...eature=related

[dude1394]

After watching that maggette travel-fest it just shocks me when they call anything.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

Man, that has to be one of the funnier videos I've seen lately.

Time to re-hash ZBo doing his best hotsauce impression.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

Haywood, on the otherhand, took about 6 full steps with the ball once while he was trying to figure out what to do with it. Top of the key, 2nd quarter maybe. It was hilarious. I couldn't believe it wasn't called.

Ha. Just found it. It's at 8:30 in the 2nd quarter, at 46:30 into the ESPN broadcast that's available at ESPN3. Man I wish I knew how to make a gif.

[sefant77]

There are youtube tutorials how to do it

Do it

[mavs777]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

If they called traveling in the NBA the way they call it in college, it'd be a considerably different game both on the wings and in the paint.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7DjZehIGvs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFDIkJKDXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljINK...eature=related

[mavErika]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

MMB recap
http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2011/2/...celtics-101-97

- Ray Allen had a chance to give the Celtics a 48-47 lead in the second quarter. He had a wide open three-point look and he missed it. The Mavs got the rebound and quickly ran up the floor and Jason Terry nailed a three-point basket, that is what we like to call the six-point swing.

I loved how the crowd roared in anticipation of that Allen three and how the sequence unfolded from there. I knew it was good. Outside from fourth quarters, these are the moments JET lives for.

Tyson Chandler is playing great for a while now. And more than just the threat of it, his actual scoring contributions became an important part of the offense, too.

Originally Posted by Sportstudi

Since the last four games (since the game against Atlanta, including tonight's one) Dirk is shooting 65% FG, 75% from downtown and 96% from the line... Seems he has found back is shooting stroke.

So good to have Dirk back! His legs may not be at 100%, but his FT-shooting sure is almost there.

[bobbyfg7]

Oh Yeah!! Oh Yeah!! Slap Five!! Mavs won!



Screw KG. So what if Kidd travelled. Mavs won!! And we get to watch more tomorrow. Bring the energy again mavs. I'm as happy as a puppy with two peters. And possibly drunk....

Go Mavs!!!

[mavs777]

Chandler hasn't been in much foul trouble of late

[dude1394]

So I'm wondering how this team will look with a shooter like peja out there instead of cardinal starting (or obviously jjb).

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by dude1394

So I'm wondering how this team will look with a shooter like peja out there instead of cardinal starting (or obviously jjb).

It should certainly help spread the floor (and possibly lessen the doubles Dirk sees if Peja is on his game). DeShawn has been lights out from three, but most players don't really respect his shot. Peja is a guy who everyone respects (shot wise). Should be interesting.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by CadBane

It should certainly help spread the floor (and possibly lessen the doubles Dirk sees if Peja is on his game). DeShawn has been lights out from three, but most players don't really respect his shot. Peja is a guy who everyone respects (shot wise). Should be interesting.

It is clearly the case that players/coaches/scouts don't respect Stevenson's stroke. I still go back to the Orlando game where Dirk was out and Stevenson had numerous open looks...why?

I can get that you're willing to take the risk of dying by Stevenson' jumper over Dirk's...but I don't get how that holds in that specific instance.

[sefant77]

We swept Boston and Miami 2-0

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

It is clearly the case that players/coaches/scouts don't respect Stevenson's stroke. I still go back to the Orlando game where Dirk was out and Stevenson had numerous open looks...why?

I can get that you're willing to take the risk of dying by Stevenson' jumper over Dirk's...but I don't get how that holds in that specific instance.

NBA is a funny sport. Sometimes it takes people a LONG time to catch on to certain trends. Announcers still act shocked that Kidd hits threes these days. Hopefully DeShawn keeps it up though. He went through a lull, but seems to be hitting at a pretty good slip again. Anything over 40% from three for him I'll take happily.

[CadBane]

Originally Posted by sefant77

We swept Boston and Miami 2-0

9-0 vs. Boston, Miami, LA, Orlando, and SA (with a healthy Dirk )

[grndmstr_c]

Way to step up, UD.

Maybe not the prettiest win, but any time you can get a win in Boston, you might as well feel good about it, not least because it means you laid a loss on KG.

Tyson and Dirk continue to be a 2-man wrecking crew. Is there a better PF/C tandem in the NBA? Is there another duo outside of Gasol/Bynum that's even in the conversation?

As nice as it is to beat the best team in the East on their home court, I don't think this win deludes anybody in the Mavs' front office into thinking that the team couldn't use some upgrades in the personnel department. You saw it when JJB-as-starter had run its course, and you saw it when Stevenson was having to be a bail-out guy on the offensive end late in the game. No doubt a healthy Peja and Booby help there - after all, they're probably getting those minutes if they're in uniform - but they aren't in uniform, and haven't been for much/all of the season. So things remain as they have been: if the Mavs find themselves in a position where they can make a smart deal on a playoff-caliber rotation player, they should.

And actually, I think this game did a pretty fair job of showing both why the impact of the loss of Caron on the Mavs has been in some ways overstated, yet is in other ways very real.

With regard to the former, look no further than the way the offense functioned for a decent chunk of the night (not to mention over the recent stretch of games). Much - not all - of what Caron contributed on that end of the court has been replaced by other guys, with Stevenson and JJB getting more minutes, and Chandler getting more touches. Beyond that, though, there's now only one guy on the court who really ever holds the ball and goes one-on-one, that being the game's most efficient go-to scorer, and because of that there's more motion and more activity out there on the offensive end. I think it shows.

At the same time, a month and a half ago those bailout shots that Stevenson was struggling to draw iron on would have come from Caron's hand, and that means they would have had a better chance of going in. As I alluded to above, Peja's probably getting some of those critical SF minutes next week and it's hardly a bad thing to have him taking some of those shots, but Dallas also can't depend on Peja to defend as well as Caron or Stevenson. Any way you slice it, you lose something, and after a game like tonight in which the bad guys didn't score over the final 2:43 (even if Dallas did get lucky on that inbounds play), that shouldn't, and I think won't, be overlooked.

That's enough yapping from me. Bring on the 'Cats.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by mavs777

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7DjZehIGvs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LFDIkJKDXM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljINK...eature=related

Come on, man, don't be silly. Of course there are awful travel non-calls in college regularly. That is clearly not the point.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Way to step up, UD.

Maybe not the prettiest win, but any time you can get a win in Boston, you might as well feel good about it, not least because it means you laid a loss on KG.

Tyson and Dirk continue to be a 2-man wrecking crew. Is there a better PF/C tandem in the NBA? Is there another duo outside of Gasol/Bynum that's even in the conversation?

As nice as it is to beat the best team in the East on their home court, I don't think this win deludes anybody in the Mavs' front office into thinking that the team couldn't use some upgrades in the personnel department. You saw it when JJB-as-starter had run its course, and you saw it when Stevenson was having to be a bail-out guy on the offensive end late in the game. No doubt a healthy Peja and Booby help there - after all, they're probably getting those minutes if they're in uniform - but they aren't in uniform, and haven't been for much/all of the season. So things remain as they have been: if the Mavs find themselves in a position where they can make a smart deal on a playoff-caliber rotation player, they should.

And actually, I think this game did a pretty fair job of showing both why the impact of the loss of Caron on the Mavs has been in some ways overstated, yet is in other ways very real.

With regard to the former, look no further than the way the offense functioned for a decent chunk of the night (not to mention over the recent stretch of games). Much - not all - of what Caron contributed on that end of the court has been replaced by other guys, with Stevenson and JJB getting more minutes, and Chandler getting more touches. Beyond that, though, there's now only one guy on the court who really ever holds the ball and goes one-on-one, that being the game's most efficient go-to scorer, and because of that there's more motion and more activity out there on the offensive end. I think it shows.

At the same time, a month and a half ago those bailout shots that Stevenson was struggling to draw iron on would have come from Caron's hand, and that means they would have had a better chance of going in. As I alluded to above, Peja's probably getting some of those critical SF minutes next week and it's hardly a bad thing to have him taking some of those shots, but Dallas also can't depend on Peja to defend as well as Caron or Stevenson. Any way you slice it, you lose something, and after a game like tonight in which the bad guys didn't score over the final 2:43 (even if Dallas did get lucky on that inbounds play), that shouldn't, and I think won't, be overlooked.

That's enough yapping from me. Bring on the 'Cats.

Nice post. Against quality defensive opponents like the Celtics some of those end of the shot-clock possessions look down right ugly. In part because of the entirely inconsistent(and at times arbitrary) nature of NBA officiating from game to game, we cant always rely on Dirk not being pushed smacked and slapped out of his fav positions to post-up. When the ball is swung to a Kidd or DeShawn or Marion they just cant do much with it most of the time. Peja will help in that he's one of the best i've ever seen at making space for and getting off his J. Roddy will help because he's Roddy It's just that HOW MUCH we're gonna get from those guys is an unknown. Another PROVEN playoff-caliber rotation player that can create off the dribble would help immensely.

[dalger]

Kidd's averaging 10/5/9 with only 1.4 TO over the last five games, shooting 41%/38%/100%.

Looks like he's benefiting greatly from not having to do more than he's capable of at this stage of his career. As soon as he has a healthy and productive team around him thanks to Dirk and Chandler rolling again, Kidd's much more productive as well and still helps his team a lot. Like the quality role player that he is (and hopefully continues to be).

[41mvp]

Big win!!!
When Gay Allen made 3-pointer with 3,21 left in the fourth quarter I thought this is over.But I still believed in our team.And when J.Kidd hits the 3-pointer with 2.5 seconds left
I was the happiest person on the world.This is huge win for our team.Great job!!!
Fu$ck the Boston Celticks!!!
Go MAVS!!!
I will always believe in our power!!!

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Kidd did shuffle his pivot foot a tiny, tiny bit as he reloaded after the shot fake. But it's the kind of thing that goes uncalled 100 times every single game.

This.

Everybody in the NBA travels, yet it goes uncalled unless
it's blatantly obvious. Take Ginobili's game winner vs the Bucks for example, obvious travel there.

I honestly think NBA players travel on most wide open dunks and jump stops.

A win is a win and I'll take it, especially vs the Celtics.

[Rick41]

The fact that we finished the game on a 10-0 run and shut down the Celtics for the last 3+ minutes (I think) says something.

This team is for real when healthy and will only get better when Roddy and Peja enter the rotation.

[bernardos70]

What must have killed the refs was that they had to review Kidd's shot to see whether it was a 2 or a 3 and they definitely saw Kidd traveling, since they were looking at at his feet specifically.

A team in Brazil went undefeated the whole season but didn't win the title (tired too many times). The coach and players called it a moral victory. One commentator though famously said: "I rather win an immoral title with a goal in injury time with a hand ball on the play, offside, than a moral title."

Anyway, a win its a win is a win. Refs didn't call it (they swallowed their whistles a handful of times in Boston's favor too), so who are we to judge them? :-p

EDIT: and since CadBane mentioned it and it is a top ten funny video for me, here is Zack Randolph doing that magic that he does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh2fn...e_gdata_player

[iella]

Originally Posted by 41mvp

Big win!!!
When Gay Allen made 3-pointer with 3,21 left in the fourth quarter I thought this is over.But I still believed in our team.And when J.Kidd hits the 3-pointer with 2.5 seconds left
I was the happiest person on the world.

2 questions:

1. Is calling someone gay considered an insult in Europe (or specifically, Poland)? Honest question.

2. How does "this is over" jive with "I still believed"? Snarky question.

[TVI]

Originally Posted by hotsauce

Jon barry said that Kidd definitely traveled on that last play... what do you guys think? Was the win legitimate?

Nah, not in any significant manner. That incidental forward slip of the pivot foot didn't give him any advantage over the defender. If you call that, you can go ahead and take away at several baskets a game from LeBron on those steps he takes after that crab dribbles he does, or call palming on the guys doing that lateral crossover move, which DO give them an advantage over the defender.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpQBD672HkQ

Now THAT'S a travel!