Charlie V made the team - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

mavs777 · 10-11-2014, 02:17 AM

I'm pretty confident in saying James is a better basketball player than Charlie V, he has showed ability to rebound and defend in small minutes. Charlie V is a one trick pony and the one thing he does isn't valuable enough, yes a 34% three point shooter from your big helps but if that is all he does useful he shouldn't be playing for a playoff team. Charlie V is an awful rebounder and awful defender, there is no reason for him to make the team.

sig · 10-11-2014, 11:27 AM

The reason I don't really understand why the Mavs would be so married to Mekel and Sarge are you can probaby pluck them back or someone as good from the D-League if injuries strike. So what if he was to take of their roster spots. The only drawback to that strategy is they have been in the RC system. I brought up Jefferson but after seeing the OKC game, I certainly don't see CV taking his spot.

I don't really care if they keep CV or not. I don't really want him playing before any of RJ, Crowder, Wright, Aminu, or Greg Smith. Wright is a far better fit on the offensive end than CV. They are not breaking up the Wright/Devin duo off the bench.

jthig32 · 10-11-2014, 11:33 AM

The reason Sarge has a leg up has to do with roster composition. Tyson has been injury prone his entire career. Wright is only a center in certain matchups. Smith has his own injury history, is foul prone, and is largely unproven.

The reality is, unless you want Dirk banging at center, it's very likely you will need Sarge to soak up some minutes at center over the course of the season.

mavs777 · 10-11-2014, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig

The reason I don't really understand why the Mavs would be so married to Mekel and Sarge are you can probaby pluck them back or someone as good from the D-League if injuries strike. So what if he was to take of their roster spots. The only drawback to that strategy is they have been in the RC system. I brought up Jefferson but after seeing the OKC game, I certainly don't see CV taking his spot.

I don't really care if they keep CV or not. I don't really want him playing before any of RJ, Crowder, Wright, Aminu, or Greg Smith. Wright is a far better fit on the offensive end than CV. They are not breaking up the Wright/Devin duo off the bench.

They have 14 NBA players (sorry Mekel), James is the perfect guy in case of emergency, and I do think we would have trouble finding someone as good as him for end of bench role. As for mekel you can't have 15 guys expecting to get minutes or the lockerroom would explode, he's making just above the minimum I believe and is the 4th PG, I do think if you see a situation like last year where he has to be second pg for a while because of injuries we would release him and look for upgrade. But only in that scenario.

Underdog · 10-11-2014, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The reason Sarge has a leg up has to do with roster composition. Tyson has been injury prone his entire career. Wright is only a center in certain matchups. Smith has his own injury history, is foul prone, and is largely unproven.

The reality is, unless you want Dirk banging at center, it's very likely you will need Sarge to soak up some minutes at center over the course of the season.

Which is why I'm totally fine with Bernard James occupying the 15th roster spot.

He's not great at any one aspect of the game, but he's not bad at any of them either - he can give you solid defense/rebounding/scoring when he's not completely outmatched. Sarge won't win the game for you, but he won't lose it for you either. Not a bad safety net to have for our injury-prone bigs

Edit: This is a Charlie V thread??? I'd take Bernard over Villanueva... There, relevant.

spreedom · 10-11-2014, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Ah nice analysis... Thanks for sharing.

Dude, I'm sorry but I just don't like Villanueva. He hasn't been a productive player since he left Milwaukee, and has amazingly managed to become less productive each year for the last six consecutive seasons. He's a terrible defender, an even worse rebounder, and has only shot above 35% TWICE in his career. I have no interest in a stretch four that is a career 34% three-point shooter.

Aminu should be the primary backup at power forward because he fills needs as a defender and rebounder. I think at this stage Wright should be a situational backup/third-stringer at PF and C. Villanueva, unless he miraculously has a career-high season in terms of efficiency, has very little value as an NBA player.

quietsavant · 10-12-2014, 08:43 PM

PSA
To those still fighting it, I repeat, Charlie V is here stay.

mavs777 · 10-13-2014, 12:37 AM

still don't see any good reason for him to make the team

dude1394 · 10-13-2014, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I'm pretty confident in saying James is a better basketball player than Charlie V, he has showed ability to rebound and defend in small minutes. Charlie V is a one trick pony and the one thing he does isn't valuable enough, yes a 34% three point shooter from your big helps but if that is all he does useful he shouldn't be playing for a playoff team. Charlie V is an awful rebounder and awful defender, there is no reason for him to make the team.

Charlie v just won us a game while sarge couldn't get off the bench in pre-season.

dirt_dobber · 10-13-2014, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Charlie v just won us a game while sarge couldn't get off the bench in pre-season.

6 of 8 shooting and 4 rebounds in just 11 min, ALL in the 4th qtr.
C.V. = still hungry veteran = keep him.

spreedom · 10-13-2014, 08:53 AM

I like the idea of a guy with Villanueva's skillset on the bench here, but to me the last five years of lazy, terrible play aren't excused by two preseason games.

sig · 10-13-2014, 12:14 PM

Was Charlie V. abusing all those D-League players that the Pacers are going to cut?

BTW. there is a realGM article that the Celts may cut Faverino. I'd take him over Sarge anyday. Then again it is kind of cool to have a player named Sarge on the team. Anyway, it is good to be worrying about our useless 14 and 15th roster practice players like Mekel and Sarge than the top of the roster guys as we have in the last couple of seasons.

grndmstr_c · 10-13-2014, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I like the idea of a guy with Villanueva's skillset on the bench here, but to me the last five years of lazy, terrible play aren't excused by two preseason games.

Yup, that's the rub. I don't think there's any debate whether he's got a higher ceiling than guys like Gal and Sarge, for example. With Gal and Sarge, though, you sort of expect them to be busting their butts to reach their respective ceilings. Not so much with Charlie. Like sig said, though, nice to be worrying about 14th/15th men instead of the starting lineup for a change (injury hiccups aside).

dude1394 · 10-13-2014, 03:39 PM

I trust Carlisle to kick his ass if he isnt trying out there. He would have cut odom a lot earlier if Cuban hadn't stuck his big snout into it. At least I've heard he was one of the reasons odom wasn't gone a lot earlier.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-13-2014, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

still don't see any good reason for him to make the team

Because he can score a lot of points in a short amount of time?

Seriously, even if he plays just garbage minutes...so what? I'd love to have a guy who when we're up 20 with a couple minutes to play can drain threes to protect that lead or put us up more.

grndmstr_c · 10-13-2014, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Because he can score a lot of points in a short amount of time?

Seriously, even if he plays just garbage minutes...so what? I'd love to have a guy who when we're up 20 with a couple minutes to play can drain threes to protect that lead or put us up more.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but he's also been known to give up a lot of points in a short amount of time.

EricaLubarsky · 10-13-2014, 05:29 PM

I'd love to have him if we had a 16-man roster-- my only concern is with who we have to cut to bring him on. Do we cut 4th stringers in high demand positions (PG/C)? Cutting Wright for him seems absolutely crazy to me. Do we cut Ledo's development short? I don't see him playing a huge roll or making any sort of difference other than being a closer during blowouts or occasionally changing it up when the rest of the roster comes up groggy (like Walt Williams and other guys whose only skill set is/was shooting).

Perhaps he takes the 15th spot or perhaps he goes to the D-league and shows that he can be consistent, play with energy every night, and be a leader. Right now he's about to drop out of the league, so of course he's playing hard. I just want to see him do that with consistency. It's not that I don't like Charlie V or see potential in him-- it's just the realities of limitations on NBA rosters that gets me.

sike · 10-13-2014, 07:22 PM

My guess is that is comes down to Mekel or Charlie V.

LonghornDub · 10-13-2014, 10:13 PM

I'd cut bait on Mekel and Griffin, keep Charlie V and Sarge:

Tyson
Dirk
Parsons
Monta
Nelson

Harris
Wright
Aminu
RJeff
Felton

Crowder
Smith
Ledo
Sarge
Charlie V

I like Griffin's upside (a lot) more than Sarge's, but having that additional 6'10" guy is a big deal.

SeanL · 10-13-2014, 11:37 PM

After all the washed up veterans who came to Dallas before him (Peja, Vince, Monta, Tyson Chandler, etc.) why do people people doubt Charlie V could not be a valuable role player here?

mavs777 · 10-14-2014, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL

After all the washed up veterans who came to Dallas before him (Peja, Vince, Monta, Tyson Chandler, etc.) why do people people doubt Charlie V could not be a valuable role player here?

Because he's had 3 years of injuries/being awful

BGMaverick9 · 10-14-2014, 01:10 AM

Discussed it with Skin and Followill on the podcast. General consensus out of the group was that CV gets a spot at the expense of Sarge. Only saving grace for him is the hypothetical idea that someone with a roster spot could offer a second for either Gal or Ledo.

bunkmoreland · 10-14-2014, 02:45 PM

Makes sense. Mekel, Ledo, and Charlie have been getting minutes; Sarge has not.

spreedom · 10-14-2014, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL

After all the washed up veterans who came to Dallas before him (Peja, Vince, Monta, Tyson Chandler, etc.) why do people people doubt Charlie V could not be a valuable role player here?

Out of all of those guys, CV has both A.) the least impressive resume/career body of work and B.) the least amount of purpose in terms of filling a need/deficiency on this roster.

It won't have much of an impact on the team as a whole this season, unless Tyson misses 15+ games (which likely means we're out of contention either way). I honestly don't really care that much if he does or doesn't make the team but I also don't understand why some people do, except for the whole "LOOK AT ME I WAS RIGHT" mentality.

rimrocker · 10-14-2014, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Out of all of those guys, CV has both A.) the least impressive resume/career body of work and B.) the least amount of purpose in terms of filling a need/deficiency on this roster.

It won't have much of an impact on the team as a whole this season, unless Tyson misses 15+ games (which likely means we're out of contention either way). I honestly don't really care that much if he does or doesn't make the team but I also don't understand why some people do, except for the whole "LOOK AT ME I WAS RIGHT" mentality.

I don't think anyone is expecting CV to become the next Monta, Stack, NVE or Chandler, but on a team that has serious aspirations of winning a championship I'd rather keep vets who have actually proved something over young players who have proved nothing and have very limited ceilings.

Besides, I don't think people are exactly getting excited at the thought of a Mekel/Ledo starting backcourt 5 years from now.

The knock on CV is a big guy who can shoot but not play D or rebound. Sounds like the perfect insurance for Dirk if he is able to be consistent with his 3s.

EricaLubarsky · 10-14-2014, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeanL

After all the washed up veterans who came to Dallas before him (Abdul-Wahad, Eddie Curry, Doug Cristie, Alan Henderson, Danny fortson, Antoine Walker, Tony Delk Austin Croshere, Kevin Willis, Devean George, Lamar Odom, Tyronn Lue, Kelenna Azubuike, etc.) why do people people doubt Charlie V could not be a valuable role player here?

revised your list to add more flavor.

rimrocker · 10-14-2014, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

revised your list to add more flavor.

Kevin Willis????
Seriously???
The dude was 14 years older than CV is right now.
What do you expect from a 44 yo vet?

I'd add Stack, NVE, Cebalas, AC Green, JKidd, Dantley, Herb Williams, Danny Manning and Rodman to that list.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-14-2014, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I also don't understand why some people do, except for the whole "LOOK AT ME I WAS RIGHT" mentality.

Really? Come on...I at least pointed out that he had a role to play. Why else would he be invited to training camp? He fills the Rashard Lewis role, and Lewis had a vet min contract in his pocket before he blew his knee.

EricaLubarsky · 10-14-2014, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

Kevin Willis????
Seriously???
The dude was 14 years older than CV is right now.
What do you expect from a 44 yo vet?

I'd add Stack, NVE, Cebalas, AC Green, JKidd, Dantley, Herb Williams, Danny Manning and Rodman to that list.

Not saying it's a perfect list. Just wanted more flavor and provide a little bit of a counter-point to all the "miracle second-winds". It's easy to choose three data points and draw the conclusion that we're either the best in the league or the worst.

I think we're pretty good at finding maligned vets (NVE, Ellis, etc) and guys whose health is an issue but our sports trainers can check out (Chandler, Peja, Vince), but that history shouldn't immediately be a ringing endorsement before the MBT has decided themselves. Plus, I just like to think about Mavs history-- and not just the good stuff like KVH, Peja, etc. but also the turds we've had over the years. Doesn't make our team any worse, but makes our history more full to laugh at the guys that didn't pan out.

quietsavant · 10-14-2014, 05:25 PM

Sarge is on the team to give 6 fouls.
I love that this thing is still a debate. Charlie V will be on this team. It's not even an hypothetical, he's going to make it. Let it be.

rimrocker · 10-14-2014, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Not saying it's a perfect list. Just wanted more flavor and provide a little bit of a counter-point to all the "miracle second-winds". It's easy to choose three data points and draw the conclusion that we're either the best in the league or the worst.

I think we're pretty good at finding maligned vets (NVE, Ellis, etc) and guys whose health is an issue but our sports trainers can check out (Chandler, Peja, Vince), but that history shouldn't immediately be a ringing endorsement before the MBT has decided themselves. Plus, I just like to think about Mavs history-- and not just the good stuff like KVH, Peja, etc. but also the turds we've had over the years. Doesn't make our team any worse, but makes our history more full to laugh at the guys that didn't pan out.

I was just playing along.

I'd take a chance on him even if he might become the next Odom. The risk is none though, especially when you consider we are extremely deep at PG and SG but really have no true backup PF...at least any who are capable of spreading the floor.

spreedom · 10-14-2014, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rimrocker

I don't think anyone is expecting CV to become the next Monta, Stack, NVE or Chandler, but on a team that has serious aspirations of winning a championship I'd rather keep vets who have actually proved something over young players who have proved nothing and have very limited ceilings.

Besides, I don't think people are exactly getting excited at the thought of a Mekel/Ledo starting backcourt 5 years from now.

The knock on CV is a big guy who can shoot but not play D or rebound. Sounds like the perfect insurance for Dirk if he is able to be consistent with his 3s.

I agree with the second part of that statement but CV has a lot to prove as a shooter. Like I said, he's only shot over 35% from three twice in his career.

grndmstr_c · 10-14-2014, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I agree with the second part of that statement but CV has a lot to prove as a shooter. Like I said, he's only shot over 35% from three twice in his career.

I looked through his shot charts a week or two ago, and in his higher volume years he's done well from the spots where Dirk typically does very well. In that respect he's actually a better fit that Rashard, who's only really a threat from the corners.

Underdog · 10-14-2014, 08:59 PM

I like that we're debating who's going to be our 15th man this year instead of who's going to be our 6th man... Great offseason!

BGMaverick9 · 10-14-2014, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I like that we're debating who's going to be our 15th man this year instead of who's going to be our 6th man... Great offseason!

If he's making the team, I'm assuming he's 13 (you dress 13).

Underdog · 10-14-2014, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

If he's making the team, I'm assuming he's 13 (you dress 13).

He'll always be 15th in my heart...

rimrocker · 10-15-2014, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

I agree with the second part of that statement but CV has a lot to prove as a shooter. Like I said, he's only shot over 35% from three twice in his career.

I see CVs role as insurance moreso than Dirk's backup if that makes any sense...sort of a Brian Cardinal role.

DGM · 10-15-2014, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

The reason Sarge has a leg up has to do with roster composition. Tyson has been injury prone his entire career. Wright is only a center in certain matchups. Smith has his own injury history, is foul prone, and is largely unproven.

The reality is, unless you want Dirk banging at center, it's very likely you will need Sarge to soak up some minutes at center over the course of the season.

Sarge is needed as insurance against injury to Chandler. He is a solid rebounder and defender. They brought in Charlie as insurance against injury to Dirk. If Dirk has to sit a few games Charlie's offense will be valuable.

EricaLubarsky · 10-15-2014, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Sarge is needed as insurance against injury to Chandler. He is a solid rebounder and defender. They brought in Charlie as insurance against injury to Dirk. If Dirk has to sit a few games Charlie's offense will be valuable.

Mekel is in the same boat. He's insurance for a very weak PG position-- there, I said it. Harris is probably our best player, but he's limited offensively and is only good for 15-25mpg. Felton is already injured and doesn't have a great track record. Nelson is small and has sofar been a little inconsistent. One injury and plus one guy being off and we'd need Mekel.

If we had to cut a guy, I'd say Ledo. He's young and developing, but with Ellis/Harris manning the SG position, and a few guys able to take over (Jefferson, Crowder, Nelson, or Felton), he's the most expendable.

bunkmoreland · 10-15-2014, 01:49 PM

Would someone give us a 2nd rounder for Ledo?