Charlie V made the team - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

DGM · 10-09-2014, 12:23 PM

He had a little rust but the talent was evident. That 3 stroke looked good.

mavs777 · 10-09-2014, 12:49 PM

I don't see the point, he'd be like 13th in the rotation and behind better backup PF options.

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

I don't see the point, he'd be like 13th in the rotation and behind better backup PF options.

Who is that besides parsons?

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Who is that besides parsons?

I'd put Wright and Aminu in front of him, so a depth chart that looks something like this:

Dirk/Parsons/Aminu/Wright/Charlie/Jefferson/Crowder

Then a couple of guys behind him, too in Jefferson, Crowder who aren't best there, but probably can play some minutes at the 4 and have in the past.

That's some ridiculous depth. I was actually impressed with Charlie's shooting (and disappointed with his defense/rebounding), but we can go 6-7 deep with players that have played/can play there with two legitimate starting-caliber players in Dirk and Parsons and two solid (but situational) backup in Wright and Aminu. We also already have Wright, who is one of the most gifted offensive talents we've had here as a backup (1st in TS% last year) who has amazing chemistry with Harris with the same rebounding weakness, but better team defense (shotblocking). He doesn't have tons of range, but he's potent (69.5% TS%)

Our guard spot is much more sketchy with Ledo playing terribly and Mekel being Mekel. Having a lot of guards doesn't equal depth in that case.

tcat075 · 10-09-2014, 03:42 PM

Carlisle's said some really nice things about him. Pretty confident he'll bump Ledo or Mekel off the team when cuts are made.

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 03:50 PM

Well just have to see erica. I expect it will be Dirk, Parsons/Charlie. Aminu I think will get most of the parsons minutes. Wright...tbh I'd trade the dude if we didn't have such unproven guys at center.

DGM · 10-09-2014, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well just have to see erica. I expect it will be Dirk, Parsons/Charlie. Aminu I think will get most of the parsons minutes. Wright...tbh I'd trade the dude if we didn't have such unproven guys at center.

Agree about Wright. He doesn't have an outside game or the strength to play inside. A 6' 10" player who can't rebound is a misfit. SA really exposed him in the playoffs.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Agree about Wright. He doesn't have an outside game or the strength to play inside. A 6' 10" player who can't rebound is a misfit. SA really exposed him in the playoffs.

Wait are we criticizing Wright for lack of rebounding, defense, and/or interior presence in a thread about Charlie V?

DGM · 10-09-2014, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wait are we criticizing Wright for lack of rebounding, defense, and/or interior presence in a thread about Charlie V?

Yes, because if Wright goes it will be because Charlie made him expendable.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Yes, because if Wright goes it will be because Charlie made him expendable.

Makes as much sense to me as talking about upgrading Harden's defense by swapping him or supplementing him with Steve Nash at 40.

Rebounding rating
Wright 24.5
Charlie 19.5

Rebound rate
Wright 13.1 (41st among PFs)
Charlie 10.3 (82nd among PFs)

Block rating
Wright 6.6
Charlie 3.8

+/-
Wright +6.1
Villanueva -11.2

spreedom · 10-09-2014, 09:58 PM

Villanueva's a turd that will almost certainly get flushed before the start of the regular season.

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spreedom

Villanueva's a turd that will almost certainly get flushed before the start of the regular season.

Ah nice analysis... Thanks for sharing.

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wait are we criticizing Wright for lack of rebounding, defense, and/or interior presence in a thread about Charlie V?

Yes...because being able to actually shoot covers up a lot of flaws.

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yes...because being able to actually shoot covers up a lot of flaws.

Which is why he's consistently been good at +/- for every team he's been on?

EricaLubarsky · 10-09-2014, 11:41 PM

Charlie
2013-2104 Detroit
-11.2
2012-2013 Detroit
-1.1
2011-2012 Detroit
-3.2
2010-2011 Detroit
-3.6
2009-2010 Detroit
-2.7

Wright
2013-2104 Dallas
+6.1
2012-2013 Dallas
+7.8
2011-2012 Dallas
+2.8

dude1394 · 10-09-2014, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Charlie
2013-2104 Detroit
-11.2
2012-2013 Detroit
-1.1
2011-2012 Detroit
-3.2
2010-2011 Detroit
-3.6
2009-2010 Detroit
-2.7

Wright
2013-2104 Dallas
+6.1
2012-2013 Dallas
+7.8
2011-2012 Dallas
+2.8

You win, Charlie V stunk in Detroit.. Brendan Wright is a stud who should be the backup center and/or power forward... but won't.

sig · 10-10-2014, 08:15 AM

I could see Jefferson and Villanueva battling for a spot. I don't see why Sarge and Mekel are here. Mekel and Sarge have no upside. If Villanieva makes the team, I think it will be at the expense of one of those 3. IMO, Crowder is clearly ahead of Jefferson until Crowder messes it up. If Crowder has developed consistency in his game then I expect Jefferson is a vet who rings up DNPs.

I don't see the Mavs cutting Ledo for Villanueva. Ledo has a whole lot of upside and a cheap contract. He just needs experience. Last year and this year are probably his version of college ball. If he was a 4 year college player then this would be his senior year. I think the Ledo make or break year to make the roster is probably next year.

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sig

I could see Jefferson and Villanueva battling for a spot. I don't see why Sarge and Mekel are here. Mekel and Sarge have no upside. If Villanieva makes the team, I think it will be at the expense of one of those 3. IMO, Crowder is clearly ahead of Jefferson until Crowder messes it up. If Crowder has developed consistency in his game then I expect Jefferson is a vet who rings up DNPs.

I don't see the Mavs cutting Ledo for Villanueva. Ledo has a whole lot of upside and a cheap contract. He just needs experience. Last year and this year are probably his version of college ball. If he was a 4 year college player then this would be his senior year. I think the Ledo make or break year to make the roster is probably next year.

James is here because of things like Tuesday night. Chandler in foul trouble or injured. Smith with 4 PFs in 4 min. Wright is situational at best at C.

Mekel is basically the same. Nelson and Felton are unproven. Harris can only play 20mpg or so between the two guard spots. If either Nelson or Felton don't turn out or if one of out guards gets injured, we need a 4th stringer.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

James is here because of things like Tuesday night. Chandler in foul trouble or injured. Smith with 4 PFs in 4 min. Wright is situational at best at C.

Mekel is basically the same. Nelson and Felton are unproven. Harris can only play 20mpg or so between the two guard spots. If either Nelson or Felton don't turn out or if one of out guards gets injured, we need a 4th stringer.

But you could feasibly make an argument that CV is the third string PF depending on Aminu and Wright not getting many PF minutes.

And come on...Tuesday is a horrid example when it comes to fouls. That was one of the worst reffed games I've ever seen.

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

But you could feasibly make an argument that CV is the third string PF depending on Aminu and Wright not getting many PF minutes.

And come on...Tuesday is a horrid example when it comes to fouls. That was one of the worst reffed games I've ever seen.

You don't think we'll ever had problems with depth at the C spot? No injuries or not the occasional foul problem?

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You don't think we'll ever had problems with depth at the C spot? No injuries or not the occasional foul problem?

And if Dirk got injured (knock on wood), then you don't think we'd have a need for a stretch 4?

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 10:25 AM

Quote:

DALLAS -- A conversation with coach Rick Carlisle convinced veteran power forward Charlie Villanueva to accept a camp invitation from the Dallas Mavericks over other nonguaranteed offers.

“He was just like, ‘There is a legitimate chance of you making this roster, but you’ve got to want it,’” Villanueva said. “I like that. I love that. He wasn’t giving it to me. I have to earn it. That’s what I want. I want to earn things here.”

The 6-foot-11, 232-pound Villanueva, whose once promising career fizzled the last few seasons while he fought injuries with the Detroit Pistons, could fill a void as a stretch power forward off the bench for the Mavs.

There is no doubt that the 30-year-old Villanueva could provide some scoring bunch off the bench. He’s healthy, in good shape and shooting the ball like the guy who averaged double figures in his first six seasons in the league.

The Mavs got a glimpse of that in Tuesday’s preseason opener, when Villanueva scored 13 points in 14 minutes during the loss to the Houston Rockets, hitting 4-of-8 shots from the floor and 3-of-6 from 3-point range.

“He can score and he can shoot it,” Carlisle said. “That’s his skill and that’s his gift. I’d like to see him do a better job defensively, particularly in the post, where he got hurt. And I think he’s capable of doing that.”

It was definitely a tough night defensively for Villanueva, who was limited to 14 minutes because he fouled out. Houston 7-footer Donatas Motiejunas (18 points, 7-of-11 shooting) did much of his damage against Villanueva, repeatedly getting great position on the block and dropping jump hooks over him.

Villanueva, whose contract includes no guaranteed money, gets another shot to impress the Mavs’ brass in Friday night’s preseason game against the Oklahoma City Thunder. He must perform well enough to convince Carlisle and owner Mark Cuban to keep him over a player whose salary is guaranteed.

“We’re just going to pick the best players,” Cuban said. “I don’t care what the contract is. I’d be happy to do it. I don’t care.”

Could Villanueva help the Mavs more than fourth-string point guard Gal Mekel or fourth-string center Bernard James or developmental shooting guard Ricky Ledo? Those are the players he’s competing against for a roster spot.

“I feel good about it, but I’m not really too focused on that,” Villanueva said. “I’m just focused on doing what I need to do, what coach needs me to do.”

The message from Carlisle to Villanueva is clear: Man up on defense if you want to be a Maverick.

http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...medium=twitter

bunkmoreland · 10-10-2014, 10:49 AM

My prediction: Goodbye, Gal. Hello, Charlie. But it depends on a strong remainder of the preseason. I am pulling for him.

Can we stop talking about Gal as if he fills a need?

Mavs' PG rankings:
1a Nelson
1b Harris
3 Felton
4 Ellis
5 Crowder
6 Parsons
7 Dirk
8 Mekel

I exaggerate, but if Gal sees non-garbage time minutes, we are in trouble, right?

rimrocker · 10-10-2014, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Yes...because being able to actually shoot covers up a lot of flaws.

Our starting PF is proof of that.

jthig32 · 10-10-2014, 01:27 PM

I don't think it's out of the question that Charlie V makes the team, but he'd simply become practice fodder replacing other practice fodder. Don't see him beating out Wright/Aminu/Parsons/Jefferson for backup PF minutes.

quietsavant · 10-10-2014, 02:54 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg3F...pDk-0o&index=3

This guy is going to make this team. His stretch shooting can be used in spots. If we found a way to hide Peja on Defense, we certainly could hide Charlie on Defense or have him buy into the team defense and use his offense in spots. So, whether you're with it or not, guys, he's here to stay. Get used to it.

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And if Dirk got injured (knock on wood), then you don't think we'd have a need for a stretch 4?

So the hypothetical is that Dirk is injured, Parsons/Jefferson are also injured or unable to help out and we absolutely need a natural stretch 4?

Also, we can't use Wright, Aminu and/or Crowder despite being better players because we absolutely need a shooter with range?

Yeah, in that hypothetical where you eliminate six other guys, I'd absolutely be for Charlie, but that is a crazy hypothetical, because if Dirk goes down, we're screwed and Charlie V isn't going to stop that and when are you ever required to ignore ridiculous depth just for one player with one specific skill who is awful at everything else? Can't we just play Parsons (37%) /Jefferson (41%) /Crowder (33%) out of position instead of playing a guy who only shot 25% from three last year (career 34%)? If not, can't we just play Wright or Aminu and beef up our shooting elsewhere? Seems ridiculous to add a 6th/7th forward when our PG, SG, and C positions only go 3-4 deep with lesser talent.

dude1394 · 10-10-2014, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quietsavant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg3F...pDk-0o&index=3

This guy is going to make this team. His stretch shooting can be used in spots. If we found a way to hide Peja on Defense, we certainly could hide Charlie on Defense or have him buy into the team defense and use his offense in spots. So, whether you're with it or not, guys, he's here to stay. Get used to it.

There is no way in the world that Charlie v can't be a better defender than Peja. Peja was one misstep from retirement.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

So the hypothetical is that Dirk is injured, Parsons/Jefferson are also injured or unable to help out and we absolutely need a natural stretch 4?

Also, we can't use Wright, Aminu and/or Crowder despite being better players because we absolutely need a shooter with range?

Yeah, in that hypothetical where you eliminate six other guys, I'd absolutely be for Charlie, but that is a crazy hypothetical, because if Dirk goes down, we're screwed and Charlie V isn't going to stop that and when are you ever required to ignore ridiculous depth just for one player with one specific skill who is awful at everything else? Can't we just play Parsons (37%) /Jefferson (41%) /Crowder (33%) out of position instead of playing a guy who only shot 25% from three last year (career 34%)? If not, can't we just play Wright or Aminu and beef up our shooting elsewhere? Seems ridiculous to add a 6th/7th forward when our PG, SG, and C positions only go 3-4 deep with lesser talent.

And yet you somehow make an argument for 4th stringers James and Mekel who haven't really shown anything in their time as Mavs?

This team actually isn't full of good, pure jump shooters. We are arguing over end of the bench guys here, but CV does provide a role. I see more of a role for him than Mekel or James. There is a reason the team tried to sign Rashard Lewis. CV fits that mold even if he can't rebound or play defense (which Lewis can't either).

rimrocker · 10-10-2014, 03:41 PM

Has Jefferson ever played one minute at PF?
I'm sorry but I have to chuckle when I see his name as a PF option.
If Parsons, Aminu, Jefferson and Crowder are in the game at the same time we are playing 4 SFs and no PFs unless Dirk is in the game with them.

CV is the only true PF on the roster other than Dirk.
And Wright is Center in a PF/SF body.

quietsavant · 10-10-2014, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And yet you somehow make an argument for 4th stringers James and Mekel who haven't really shown anything in their time as Mavs?

This team actually isn't full of good, pure jump shooters. We are arguing over end of the bench guys here, but CV does provide a role. I see more of a role for him than Mekel or James. There is a reason the team tried to sign Rashard Lewis. CV fits that mold even if he can't rebound or play defense (which Lewis can't either).

PREACH

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

And yet you somehow make an argument for 4th stringers James and Mekel who haven't really shown anything in their time as Mavs?

Did you read what I wrote? When did I make an argument for those two specifically?

I only see us talking about needs, and a 4th string center/PG seems more important than a 7th PF option.

Quote:

This team actually isn't full of good, pure jump shooters.

Charlie is a good, pure jump shooter? Seems like if you want a sharpshooter, you want them to be more than just above average-- like Peja, Calderon, Jefferson, or KVH.Charlie shot 25% last year and is only a career 34%er. Not the kind of guy you want to depend on to be your Kerr, Peja, etc.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Did you read what I wrote? When did I make an argument for those two specifically?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

James is here because of things like Tuesday night. Chandler in foul trouble or injured. Smith with 4 PFs in 4 min. Wright is situational at best at C.

Mekel is basically the same. Nelson and Felton are unproven. Harris can only play 20mpg or so between the two guard spots. If either Nelson or Felton don't turn out or if one of out guards gets injured, we need a 4th stringer.

.

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

.

Again, how is that justification for them as players? Seems like after listing their names, I spent the entire time talking about the position they play and not how stellar they are.

DevinHarriswillstart · 10-10-2014, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Again, how is that justification for them as players? Seems like after listing their names, I spent the entire time talking about the position they play and not how stellar they are.

I said you made an argument for them staying on the roster...which you did.

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I said you made an argument for them staying on the roster...which you did.

Fair enough. I did. They (or some better center/guard) deserve a spot over a 7th forward, who isn't good enough to be a sharpshooter and isn't good at anything else.

DGM · 10-10-2014, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Again, how is that justification for them as players? Seems like after listing their names, I spent the entire time talking about the position they play and not how stellar they are.

Here's what I see. Charlie and Aminu are here to back up Dirk. Dirk's minutes must be reduced (like Pop with Duncan). Mavs don't want to play Parsons at the 4. Aminu can play 4 with Parsons as the shooter when Dirk rests. Sometimes Dirk will sit and Charlie will play 4 with Parsons or Aminu at 3. My odd man out is Wright. He is just too much of a tweener with very limited range and his inability to rebound really hurts the Mavs. Aminu will cut into Wright's minutes because of rebounding.

Charlie was brought here because there's always room in the league for shooters.

EricaLubarsky · 10-10-2014, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGM

Mavs don't want to play Parsons at the 4.

Would be nice if true, but Carlisle said he wanted to see some Parsons at the 4 during interviews, and Parsons said in training camp interviews that he was getting stronger/bigger to play some minutes at the 4

DGM · 10-10-2014, 08:57 PM

we will see.

DGM · 10-10-2014, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Would be nice if true, but Carlisle said he wanted to see some Parsons at the 4 during interviews, and Parsons said in training camp interviews that he was getting stronger/bigger to play some minutes at the 4

I stand corrected. Dirk just said it during the game interview.