Mavs Scandal Thread

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Cuban’s explanation for not firing Sneed is a bit crazy. They retained him to protect women?

“but I didn't want to just fire him, because then he would go out there and get hired again and do it somewhere else," Cuban told ESPN. "That`s what i was truly afraid of and that was the discussion we had internally. It was a choice between just firing him and making sure that we had control of him.”

“ I looked at this as a one-off situation where, OK, if I don't do anything, this person could go out there and do damage on another woman another time.”

I guess billionaires can get away with spewing absolute BS and people believe it?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by FreshJive

Cuban’s explanation for not firing Sneed is a bit crazy. They retained him to protect women?

“but I didn't want to just fire him, because then he would go out there and get hired again and do it somewhere else," Cuban told ESPN. "That`s what i was truly afraid of and that was the discussion we had internally. It was a choice between just firing him and making sure that we had control of him.”

“ I looked at this as a one-off situation where, OK, if I don't do anything, this person could go out there and do damage on another woman another time.”

Cuban should just shut up before he digs himself a hole he can't get out of. Wow.

I honestly think Cuban is having a nervous breakdown.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I guess billionaires can get away with spewing absolute BS and people believe it?

Cuban 2020

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Cuban should just shut up before he digs himself a hole he can't get out of. Wow.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I guess billionaires can get away with spewing absolute BS and people believe it?

Time to pull out this song again (Böhmermann is like the german version of John Oliver)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZc8tBtIDhI

[Bryan_Wilson]

What a terrible situation. The Sneed stuff I can't even understand Cuban's bs reasoning with that for keeping him. That's absolutely ridiculous. And as for the decade long shit storm of crap that apparently went on with the business and hr side of the organization... I find it hard to believe Cuban didn't know anything there for that long. Not one person sent an email to him making him aware? Just something to make him take a look at the environment over there? Cuban is actually very involved with emails. He will read and respond to a fair amount. So I find it hard to believe he didn't get wind of anything for the 15years "T" worked there. I do think he didn't know the extent of the issue though. But not making excuses for him. He's embarrassed and he should be. Saying he didn't know about this, and for how long this has been an issue, that's not something he should feel good about at all.

Having said that there is a near 0% chance they take the Mavs pick if this is the end of the story. The only way we forfeit a pick imo is if there is proof of Cuban's involvement or proof he was implicitly aware of the work conditions and chose to do nothing, and even cover it up. I hate to say it but the fact that this isn't from the basketball side of things also means I'm pretty sure picks will not be involved. If this type of behavior was going on in the actual locker room then I could see that being a possibility then. The reason I think the pick isn't involved is because on the business side there are better ways to punish then a pick and a pick hurts the basketball side more than the actual people in the wrong. By all accounts our locker room was the total opposite thank God.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'd rather the league force Cuban to sell than lose picks, and it certainly might come to that. I had some level-headedness about this until Cuban said he kept Sneed on to prevent him from hurting women at other jobs. That is just bat shit crazy and proof that Cuban might not be fit to continue owning.

I come to these boards to avoid stuff exactly like this. Shame if this is what we have to deal with for the next year or so.

[EricaLubarsky]

I was hoping to give Cuban the benefit of the doubt that he was just an incompetent playboy who didn’t know about it.

Those comments make it obvious, he’s a POS.

Going to be hard to cheer on the Mavs

[Magnum_3_Ball]

To be honest, I don't have the same reaction to his comments about Earl K Sneed as others have had. I think Mark has always been an out-of-the-box thinker, and I could see him believing it was an out-of-the-box solution. Doesn't mean I agree with the decision, but the reasoning behind it is plausible to me.

I will also say that in these domestic violence cases there's usually more to the story. It's almost always portrayed as poor, innocent little girl is beat up by the big bad bully guy. First off, from a legal stand point, when the cops are called to a domestic disturbance call, someone has to be taken away (99 times out of 100 that's to jail) because of a law in Texas where the cops used their own judgment one time & they were later called back that night to the scene of a homicide. And 99 times out of 100 when the cops to take someone away, they take the guy right or wrong. And pleading guilty. It really doesn't mean anything because you're sitting there & you can either plead no contest & do probation, or you can go to court and do 6 months to 2 years in jail. That's like saying I don't want my job, I don't like where I'm living, I want to give up my whole life. No one wants to do that, so they'll often times plead no contest to charges that if those other factors were not in play, they would fight the case to end.

So, it would totally make sense to me that Earl K Sneed would have a different story to tell Mark, and it would probably be convincing because elements of the truth were probably present in his story. I do find it odd that he wouldn't read the arrest report, but also the guy's a billionaire, he's got a ton on his plate. It doesn't make that right, but I could see him making that error in judgment for sure.

The part that bothers me about the Earl K Sneed situation is the broken wrist the woman had in the first incident. Unless he would claim that she injured herself, that reeks of bad guy abused a woman & I don't know how he would explain that away.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Going to be hard to cheer on the Mavs

No reason to stop cheering for Dirk, Dennis, Harrison, etc. -- they didn't do anything wrong... I dunno, to me the Mavs are the players and coaches on the floor, not the suits in the office. Just because Mark Cuban is an outspoken suit, doesn't change the fact that he's a suit. Dude has logged zero minutes in a Mavs uniform.

[Underdog]

@ESefko: Dirk Nowitzki on the investigation of the Mavs: "It’s very disappointing. It’s heartbreaking. I’m glad it’s all coming out. I was disgusted when I read the article, obviously, as everybody was. I was shocked ... that our franchise, my franchise, that stuff like that was going on"

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

No reason to stop cheering for Dirk, Dennis, Harrison, etc. -- they didn't do anything wrong... I dunno, to me the Mavs are the players and coaches on the floor, not the suits in the office. Just because Mark Cuban is an outspoken suit, doesn't change the fact that he's a suit. Dude has logged zero minutes in a Mavs uniform.

Cuban has his hands all over this team. It would be different if it was any other owner, but Cuban IS the Mavs.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Cuban has his hands all over this team. It would be different if it was any other owner, but Cuban IS the Mavs.

You're entitled to your opinion, but...


Dirk Nowitzki




Mark Cuban

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Now that I've thought about it some more, and heard that Sneed was arrested at the Mavs offices, I really think at that point Mark should have done a thorough investigation throughout the organization & uncovered the misdeeds of Ussery.

I have heard that the Mavs business offices are in Deep Ellum, or some place away from the Mavs basketball offices, which I didn't know. That makes it more plausible to me that the basketball side of the operation wasn't knowledgeable of the offenses; at least not the serious nature of them. I'm still pretty sure all of the long time Mavs heard rumors, but then you don't break down & investigate every rumor you hear; especially when it doesn't have anything to do with you.

Dirk's comments are enough for me to believe that he didn't know what was going on. I feel like I can take Dirk at his word.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by Underdog

You're entitled to your opinion, but...

I’m entitled to my opinion. Period.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I’m entitled to my opinion. Period.

So I guess this is goodbye.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

It's kind of foolish, or wishful thinking, to think the Mavs are only represented by the coaching staff & players on the floor. That's not how a wide group of people are going to look at this. For some, the Mavs logo now represents sexism, discrimination, and abuse.

Can't compartmentalize that. Have to handle that head on.

I think Cuban should do something like donate the rest of the season's proceeds to women's charities. Heads have to roll and something has to be done to say, "This isn't us, and things are going to be different from here on out". The message cannot be, "Was never the players on the court. Don't associate us with that". However fair or not fair that is for the players. It can't go that way.

[Melonhead]

What a crappy way for Dirk to go out, if tanking wasn’t already enough. Think there’s a much greater chance he retires after this season. Like EricaLubarsky said, I’m going to have trouble rooting for the Mavs here on out.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Imagine telling Cuban on shark tank that you run a business where the head of operations of your company harasses women, but you knew nothing about it as the owner. He'd instantly chastise you and shame you off the stage.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Imagine telling Cuban on shark tank that you run a business where the head of operations of your company harasses women, but you knew nothing about it as the owner. He'd instantly chastise you and shame you off the stage.

Watching more than my fair share of Shark Tank episodes, I've thought this exact same thing. He'd rip into those presenters mercilessly.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I dunno, Skin was just saying that Cuban spends almost zero time in the office -- he's either on the court with the players or working from home (when he's not out in California filming Shark Tank). He likes to sell himself as a hands-on guy, but he's really not so much these days. It's entirely possible that he has little-to-no idea what's going on in the Mavs office on a daily basis... Which of course is an entirely different problem -- one that might be best remedied if he relinquished the title of GM and hired someone else to do the day-to-day stuff.

Ben and Skin sucked on Cuban's nuts yesterday...

[Luke]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Cuban has his hands all over this team. It would be different if it was any other owner, but Cuban IS the Mavs.

Cuban is not the Mavs. Cuban is the guy that bought the team at the right time when it was about to take off with Nash, Finley and Dirk. That doesn't mean that he's not an integral part of the franchise.. But he takes a very big backseat to Dirk. When Dirk retires, he'll still take a backseat to Dirk. He will always take a backseat to Dirk.. it's not debatable...

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

It's kind of foolish, or wishful thinking, to think the Mavs are only represented by the coaching staff & players on the floor. That's not how a wide group of people are going to look at this. For some, the Mavs logo now represents sexism, discrimination, and abuse.

Can't compartmentalize that. Have to handle that head on.

I think Cuban should do something like donate the rest of the season's proceeds to women's charities. Heads have to roll and something has to be done to say, "This isn't us, and things are going to be different from here on out". The message cannot be, "Was never the players on the court. Don't associate us with that". However fair or not fair that is for the players. It can't go that way.

Yes, many people will look at the Mavs like that. However, I think we also know that the people that are going to look at the team like that probably weren't fans of the team to begin with. We see it all the time. We see the outrage from people about something going on in sports that know nothing about the sport.. Collin Kaepernick... Tim Tebow..... How many people on social media that know nothing about the 49ers and would never watch them now have "informed" opinions about why Kaepernick wasn't a starter in San Francisco? How many people on social media believe that Tebow just didn't get a fair shot at QB because he is an outspoken Christian...?... Millions? How many of them were actually Broncos fans?

People are going to form opinions..the overwhelming majority will have no association with the team in any capacity as a fan or anything else at any point in their past. That's totally fine. They'll move on in a few weeks be pissed off about something else... Someone will say something about a skimpy dress that Jennifer Lawrence is wearing and they'll claim that it's a sexist comment and call for someone's job... They will move on..They always move on.

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I’m entitled to my opinion. Period.

Originally Posted by Underdog

So I guess this is goodbye.

I'm not sure how this was meant, but it came across harsh and very unreasonable. If her opinion doesn't agree with you, then she should leave? She's been one of the few people that has consistently posted in this forum and it would be a big loss if she were to leave.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I'm not sure how this was meant, but it came across harsh and very unreasonable. If her opinion doesn't agree with you, then she should leave? She's been one of the few people that has consistently posted in this forum and it would be a big loss if she were to leave.

I think everyone was on edge yesterday knowing that dark times are ahead.

To UD's point, I think he was basically saying why post here if you don't want to support or root for the Mavs anymore. Sounded like EL had one foot out the door, but as I said, a bad day for all Mavs fans.

I sincerely doubt he mean't that she isn't welcome her own opinion.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I'm not sure how this was meant, but it came across harsh and very unreasonable. If her opinion doesn't agree with you, then she should leave? She's been one of the few people that has consistently posted in this forum and it would be a big loss if she were to leave.

Pretty sure he just meant "leave" if you don't want to be here... Not "leave" because he doesn't want her here.

[tap2390]

There seems to be some confusion as to the timeline... here’s what I understand

Summer 1998 - first allegations against Ussery
Summer 1998 - Pitmann hired as head of HR / new employee handbook implemented
February 1999 - Ussery gets three-year extension
2000 - Cuban buys team
2010/2011 - Sneed beats his girlfriend
2 months later - Sneed arrested
August 2012 - Sneed pleads guilty to misdemeanor charges of family violence assault and interference with emergency request
August 2013 - Paul Monroe, VP of Marketing, tells victim to shut up because Ussery is boss
2014 - Sneed beats second girlfriend, a Mavs employee... girlfriend does not report to police but does to Pittman and others
Summer 2015 - Ussery leaves
September 2015 - Ussery starts job with Under Armour
November 2015 - Ussery leaves Under Armour job following incident with female subordinate


Obviously, Sneed should have been fired after the second incident. I can see him talking his way out of the first given that he was arrested months after the incident occurred and was only charged with a misdemeanor. He could’ve easily played the first incident off as a bad fight between lovers. That being said Mavs didn’t do their due diligence regarding the first incident. To keep him after the second is abhorrent.

Ussery seems to be the classic case of a man abusing his considerable power. The fact that Under Armour moved so swiftly to remove him really reflects very poorly on us. I can, however, see a world where two long tenure members of Mavs (Pittman and Ussery) who were with the Mavs longer than Cuban himself, were given autonomy in their positions by Cuban. Obviously, Cuban and the Mavs poor oversight needs to be rectified. That being said, I’m not on the “sell the team” boat just yet. I want to know how much actual knowledge Cuban had.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

What a terrible situation. The Sneed stuff I can't even understand Cuban's bs reasoning with that for keeping him. That's absolutely ridiculous. And as for the decade long shit storm of crap that apparently went on with the business and hr side of the organization... I find it hard to believe Cuban didn't know anything there for that long. Not one person sent an email to him making him aware? Just something to make him take a look at the environment over there? Cuban is actually very involved with emails. He will read and respond to a fair amount. So I find it hard to believe he didn't get wind of anything for the 15years "T" worked there. I do think he didn't know the extent of the issue though. But not making excuses for him. He's embarrassed and he should be. Saying he didn't know about this, and for how long this has been an issue, that's not something he should feel good about at all.

Having said that there is a near 0% chance they take the Mavs pick if this is the end of the story. The only way we forfeit a pick imo is if there is proof of Cuban's involvement or proof he was implicitly aware of the work conditions and chose to do nothing, and even cover it up. I hate to say it but the fact that this isn't from the basketball side of things also means I'm pretty sure picks will not be involved. If this type of behavior was going on in the actual locker room then I could see that being a possibility then. The reason I think the pick isn't involved is because on the business side there are better ways to punish then a pick and a pick hurts the basketball side more than the actual people in the wrong. By all accounts our locker room was the total opposite thank God.

I wouldn't say a 0% chance... I think the chances are slim..very slim.. but I wouldn't say a 0% chance. Let's find out who knew what and what all went on first.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

Originally Posted by tap2390

There seems to be some confusion as to the timeline... here’s what I understand

Summer 1998 - first allegations against Ussery
Summer 1998 - Pitmann hired as head of HR / new employee handbook implemented
February 1999 - Ussery gets three-year extension
2000 - Cuban buys team
2010/2011 - Sneed beats his girlfriend
2 months later - Sneed arrested
August 2012 - Sneed pleads guilty to misdemeanor charges of family violence assault and interference with emergency request
August 2013 - Paul Monroe, VP of Marketing, tells victim to shut up because Ussery is boss
2014 - Sneed beats second girlfriend, a Mavs employee... girlfriend does not report to police but does to Pittman and others
Summer 2015 - Ussery leaves
September 2015 - Ussery starts job with Under Armour
November 2015 - Ussery leaves Under Armour job following incident with female subordinate


Obviously, Sneed should have been fired after the second incident. I can see him talking his way out of the first given that he was arrested months after the incident occurred and was only charged with a misdemeanor. He could’ve easily played the first incident off as a bad fight between lovers. That being said Mavs didn’t do their due diligence regarding the first incident. To keep him after the second is abhorrent.

Ussery seems to be the classic case of a man abusing his considerable power. The fact that Under Armour moved so swiftly to remove him really reflects very poorly on us. I can, however, see a world where two long tenure members of Mavs (Pittman and Ussery) who were with the Mavs longer than Cuban himself, were given autonomy in their positions by Cuban. Obviously, Cuban and the Mavs poor oversight needs to be rectified. That being said, I’m not on the “sell the team” boat just yet. I want to know how much actual knowledge Cuban had.

This timeline mentions Sneed about half as much as it does Ussery. I know you're just stating facts and probably don't believe Sneed is just as responsible for this problem as Ussery is. I just want to make a clear distinction.

Imo, Sneed is a very small part of this story. To my knowledge, Sneed had no power to fire any female employee of the Mavericks. That's a clear difference between him and Ussery. Also, none of the women in the SI article reported Sneed to sexually harass them.

Sneed was physically abusive to women who chose to be in a relationship with him. Ussery cornered women who chose to ride an elevator. That's a big difference, in my opinion.

The fact the Mavs didn't handle Sneed's employment properly is the only similarity to Ussery that I see. The threat to other female employees is not on the same scope at all.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

I'm not sure how this was meant, but it came across harsh and very unreasonable. If her opinion doesn't agree with you, then she should leave? She's been one of the few people that has consistently posted in this forum and it would be a big loss if she were to leave.

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

To UD's point, I think he was basically saying why post here if you don't want to support or root for the Mavs anymore. Sounded like EL had one foot out the door, but as I said, a bad day for all Mavs fans.

I sincerely doubt he mean't that she isn't welcome her own opinion.

Yep, DHWS nailed exactly what I meant... I don't want to see EL leave, but if this scandal is one step too far for her, then I guess she's as good as gone. If she feels that strongly about it, then nothing I say is going to sway her.

Me? I think the Mavs are bigger than Cuban, and this scandal isn't going to make me stop rooting for my team... If it was Dirk or Dennis or any other player, then I'd feel differently about it -- but it's a guy who I barely ever see when I turn on the game, and one who I rarely think about except for when he opens his big mouth. It definitely affects how I feel about the organization as a whole, but when I see the Dallas Mavericks logo, I think "Dirk" not "scandal."

One day Mark Cuban is going to sell the team and everyone is eventually going to forget about him... And if you don't think that's going to happen, take a look at Don Carter's thread and the measly 6 posts in it. If none of you care enough about that guy to acknowledge his death, then what makes you think the next few generations are going to give a shit about Mark Cuban years from now? Nobody is going to remember his outspokenness, or this scandal, or that mediocre TV show he's on... But they will remember Dirk when they look up into those rafters and see his jersey. They''ll remember Dirk when they see his name all over the NBA record books. They'll remember Dirk when people talk about the advent of stretch-fours and one-legged fadeaways. They'll remember Dirk when fans talk about the greatest player in Dallas Mavericks history.

They'll remember Dirk... Cuban? Not so much.

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Wow

This actually potentially really impacts my fanhood and if it’s improperly handled and/or high level coverups are revealed, I’m not sure how I can stay a fan.

But cheering for wifebeater Jason Kidd wasnt a problem?

Why drawing here a line and not before...

[MavzMan]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

Sneed was physically abusive to women who chose to be in a relationship with him. Ussery cornered women who chose to ride an elevator. That's a big difference, in my opinion.

The fact the Mavs didn't handle Sneed's employment properly is the only similarity to Ussery that I see. The threat to other female employees is not on the same scope at all.

That is an excellent point. A company cannot control the relationships it's employees engage in but it can control the environment it's employees work in.

Originally Posted by Underdog

I think the Mavs are bigger than Cuban, and this scandal isn't going to make me stop rooting for my team

I agree ... for the most part. Case in point is Donald Sterling and the Clippers. His race scandal is not even thought about now when talking about the Clippers. But again, he was forced to sell the team. Absolute worst case scenario that i see is that Cuban did in fact know all the details and covered it up without doing anything about it. If that is the case, I could see the league "forcing" him to sell the team the same as it did with Sterling.

Originally Posted by Underdog

take a look at Don Carter's thread and the measly 6 posts in it. If none of you care enough about that guy to acknowledge his death, then what makes you think the next few generations are going to give a shit about Mark Cuban years from now?

This is bad logic. Because I didn't post in a forum that i read about Carter means that I don't give a shit? What if I texted my wife about it? Does that make me care more? In reality, I moved to this area at the time Cuban bought the team, so he is the only owner that I've experienced. I appreciate all that he has done for the team and the league. IMO he will be acknowledged for those actions about the same that I acknowledge Carter for the creation of the Dallas Mavericks. As much as Dirk for winning the team's first championship? No. Give a shit? Yes.

[Melonhead]

Originally Posted by sefant77

But cheering for wifebeater Jason Kidd wasnt a problem?

Why drawing here a line and not before...

Obviously the situations are completely different. But why attack someone who says you know I might not want to support the team anymore. Especially someone who may have experienced this exact type of workplace abuse.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Obviously the situations are completely different. But why attack someone who says you know I might not want to support the team anymore. Especially someone who may have experienced this exact type of workplace abuse.

Well... I'm going to go ahead and say that this type of work place abuse has occurred in just about all if not all professional sports organizations. It's occurred in most companies that I've worked for. I've been on the receiving end more than once.. It occurs. It doesn't always involve someone as high up as Ussery, but as long as you have humans involved, it is going to occur at some point somewhere within the organization.

So bottom line..if that's your tipping point.. you're going to have to give up just about all forms of entertainment provided by other human beings. You can't watch sports..can't watch movies or TV.. you know it occurs at publishing companies so can't read books or magazines.. ..can't read newspapers... You're going to lead a very isolated life.

[Magnum_3_Ball]

I should probably say this here. If I'm being honest... If the NBA forces Cuban to sell the team, then my fandom will probably go dormant. Meaning I'll always be a Mavs fan in my heart & I'm not going to root for any other NBA team, instead. But, I can't see myself keeping up with the team like I do now.

I lived through those 1990s Mavs' teams & it was painful. It was so bad that I have a hard time understanding all of the love for Don Carter. The Mavs were so hard to watch back then. If I hadn't been at my peak basketball fandom, being a teenager playing high school basketball at the time, then I couldn't of watched them. They were miserable.

Mark Cuban is like Jesus came down from heaven & took control of our team. He was a serious god send, and if he leaves the next owner is undoubtedly not going to be anywhere as good, and probably will shade much closer to the Carter/Perot years, then the excellence we've been treated to under Cuban.

I know you're not suppose to say that. I mean if it comes out that Cuban knew a lot, then if it were any other team I'd say he should be forced to sell. But selfishly as a Mavs fan I don't want to lose Cuban as our owner. He's the only person outside of Dirk who's ever given a shit about the Dallas Mavericks.

[Bryan_Wilson]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Obviously the situations are completely different. But why attack someone who says you know I might not want to support the team anymore. Especially someone who may have experienced this exact type of workplace abuse.

Where was the attack? There wasn't an attack, there was a" why stop cheering for the team" post followed by a sort of you will be missed if that's the case "goodbye" type post. Not seeing an attack anywhere.

And the Kidd thing may be different but anyone here who is a Cowboys fan and still cheers for the Cowboys are absolutely kidding themselves if they think immensely worse things didn't happen for a good 2 decades there under Jerruh's watch. That "white house" for example... Jerry has no issue with gangbangs strippers abusive behavior domestic violence etc etc etc but if you kneel i'll cut you from the team. Not saying this Cuban thing isn't a problem and this isn't directed at anyone here. Just saying, a couple of ppl today have texted me they are embarrassed to be Mavs fans and one even said they are done watching, when they are life long cowboy fans who openly cheered greg hardy and have no issue with Jerry but somehow are embarrassed by the mavs now.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Magnum_3_Ball

I should probably say this here. If I'm being honest... If the NBA forces Cuban to sell the team, then my fandom will probably go dormant. Meaning I'll always be a Mavs fan in my heart & I'm not going to root for any other NBA team, instead. But, I can't see myself keeping up with the team like I do now.

I lived through those 1990s Mavs' teams & it was painful. It was so bad that I have a hard time understanding all of the love for Don Carter. The Mavs were so hard to watch back then. If I hadn't been at my peak basketball fandom, being a teenager playing high school basketball at the time, then I couldn't of watched them. They were miserable.

Mark Cuban is like Jesus came down from heaven & took control of our team. He was a serious god send, and if he leaves the next owner is undoubtedly not going to be anywhere as good, and probably will shade much closer to the Carter/Perot years, then the excellence we've been treated to under Cuban.

I know you're not suppose to say that. I mean if it comes out that Cuban knew a lot, then if it were any other team I'd say he should be forced to sell. But selfishly as a Mavs fan I don't want to lose Cuban as our owner. He's the only person outside of Dirk who's ever given a shit about the Dallas Mavericks.

Mark Cuban was a beneficiary of having Dirk, Nash and Fin coming into their own. I'm not saying he hasn't contributed, but with someone as great as Dirk..it's actually quite a shame that the front office and Cuban didn't do a better job of putting great players around him.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

This is bad logic. Because I didn't post in a forum that i read about Carter means that I don't give a shit? What if I texted my wife about it? Does that make me care more? In reality, I moved to this area at the time Cuban bought the team, so he is the only owner that I've experienced. I appreciate all that he has done for the team and the league. IMO he will be acknowledged for those actions about the same that I acknowledge Carter for the creation of the Dallas Mavericks. As much as Dirk for winning the team's first championship? No. Give a shit? Yes.

It's only bad logic if you think I was referring to you, specifically... This is a site full of hardcore Mavs fans, but even the most hardcore of us barely acknowledged the death of the guy who created this franchise. Hell, most casual fans didn't even know who the "guy in the cowboy hat" was when the Mavs won the championship. You only think Cuban is going to be remembered because he's popular right now, but 20 years after he sells the team he'll fade into obscurity just like Don Carter... You know why? Because nobody watches basketball for the owners.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Bryan_Wilson

Where was the attack? There wasn't an attack, there was a" why stop cheering for the team" post followed by a sort of you will be missed if that's the case "goodbye" type post. Not seeing an attack anywhere.

And the Kidd thing may be different but anyone here who is a Cowboys fan and still cheers for the Cowboys are absolutely kidding themselves if they think immensely worse things didn't happen for a good 2 decades there under Jerruh's watch. That "white house" for example... Jerry has no issue with gangbangs strippers abusive behavior domestic violence etc etc etc but if you kneel i'll cut you from the team. Not saying this Cuban thing isn't a problem and this isn't directed at anyone here. Just saying, a couple of ppl today have texted me they are embarrassed to be Mavs fans and one even said they are done watching, when they are life long cowboy fans who openly cheered greg hardy and have no issue with Jerry but somehow are embarrassed by the mavs now.

It's really silly. This type of behavior goes on all throughout society. I understand that if you want to draw your line there..but you should go ahead and cut out all pro team sports.. The Mavs aren't an isolated case in the least. It will come out that the same type of behavior goes on everywhere in sports. Does it make it right? No..of course not. But if it goes on all throughout society, why would anyone think it's different with professional sports franchises?

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by sefant77

But cheering for wifebeater Jason Kidd wasnt a problem?

Why drawing here a line and not before...

Originally Posted by Luke

So bottom line..if that's your tipping point.. you're going to have to give up just about all forms of entertainment provided by other human beings. You can't watch sports..can't watch movies or TV.. you know it occurs at publishing companies so can't read books or magazines.. ..can't read newspapers... You're going to lead a very isolated life.

Uh... so you guys are suggesting everyone forever support/accept beating women and sexually harassing coworkers, all in the name of consistency? That's a terrible idea. No thanks.

How about instead of striving for consistency, let's strive for decency?