Mavs Free Agency 11/12 - Page 11 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Kidd Karma · 12-01-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye

Fair point. Not sure if that was because of Tyson's defense or the Mavs team adjusting to Aldridge as the series went along. I do remember being frustrated at time with his man defense, but his team D and overall game was solid.

My point is as valuable as Tyson was he still had his flaws. His individual playoff performance was below his season averages. He came up huge at times just like everybody on the team, but that doesn't mean he deserves a $15m/year contract.

Without numbers being tossed out, it's hard to judge what we're tyring to do, there's one boat saying, we're only offering one year to chase the class of 2012. Another boat is sayiing we've burnt bridges with him because we wouldn't talk before the lockout. Now if our goal prior to the Damp trade was to hold open the cap space for 2012, then seems we're stickign to our guns. Winning a ring really does put a wrench in things, dang it Tyson why'd you have to be so darn good! If anything, market value, you look at what Dalembert pulled in, Okafor, are they max guys? 6 years 12 million per, on younger wheels, did we put 4 years 12 million per? That's market rate.

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 06:58 PM

You can knock Tyson's offensive stats but I don't see how you can knock him defensively when compared to almost any center. I've never seen any center cover as much ground in the pnr as Ty did. He was spectacular and really helped out our slower players.

sefant77 · 12-01-2011, 06:59 PM

"Come on Tyson put your Mavericks jersey back on, its time to get it on (again), stay in Daaallas"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3ZJ6FEcTTA

Time for a new song maybe? *cough*

OneLove22 · 12-01-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

You can knock Tyson's offensive stats but I don't see how you can knock him defensively when compared to almost any center. I've never seen any center cover as much ground in the pnr as Ty did. He was spectacular and really helped out our slower players.

Exactly. We don't need our center to score. His offensive numbers dropped for a reason, it's because our offense is fine without his production. We have so many other options to use before Tyson in the flow of the game.

His defense and energy are what this team needs.

FINtastic · 12-01-2011, 07:19 PM

Don't forget this little nugget, courtesy of the NBA Statscube twitter feed:

DAL’s Kidd-Terry-Marion-Nowitzki-Chandler lineup in Finals: 66 MIN, +38.6 NetRtg, 126.8 OffRtg, 88.2 DefRtg. TS: DAL 63.9%, MIA 48.8%.

Btw, what happened to the NBA.com StatsCube? Was it just taken down because the lockout technically hasn't ended, or did they take it down because it was only available for the playoffs? I hope the latter isn't the case because it sure was fun to nerd out with, and I seem to remember some fairly interesting statistics (such as the above) about Chandler's impact that would be nice to dig up on my own.

Granted that DefRtg of 88.2 in the Finals isn't solely Chandler's doing, but when you consider how many gifted slashers we ran into during the playoffs that were absolutely taken out of their game - especially in crunch time when that lineup was on the floor - to the point that they started chucking midrange jumpers and threes, you have to say that Chandler's ability to recover quickly in patrolling that paint and guarding pick-and-rolls was a pretty large part in that, right?

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think you're mis-remembering the Portland series. Check the game logs for Aldridge. His production slipped significantly as the series went along.

This is gonna sound really odd and it could be confirmation bias but i remember dirks man d on aldridge being better than chandlers.

Thats neither here nor there though as what hes worth isnt dependant on that one series

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 07:41 PM

Dirks man d is pretty good on post up players. Against the ones who can really put it on the floor and are strong give him fits.

sefant77 · 12-01-2011, 07:44 PM

Storyline june 2012:

Mavs repeating after another miracle playoff run. Roddy B averaging 19PPG, Haywood 11/13/2 in the playoffs. After signing a 65/5 contract with the Houston Rockets Tyson Chandler suffered an end of season injury in march (broken toe nail).

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mavs777

Can't tell if serious, he isn't a superstar but he makes a team like Denver or Houston considerably better and a playoff team at the least. He helps anyteam that wants to get better at defense.

Denver has nene to worry about. They arent signing both and tyson is a downgrade. People really think houston is going to commit ~35-40 million a season to kevin martin, tyson chandler and louis scola and thats a good idea? Look i love tc. I said well before we got him that he was absolutely the perfect center to play with dirk(not counting howard) but people are over estimating how important he is/was to this team. And i completely understand cuban not being in a rush to sign him for 14/15 mil a year so that we can have the privilege of never being able to make another personel move in the dirk era. Unless you truthfully believe kidd will be able to play till hes 42-43 with no decline and terry will come back for essentially the minimum while hes still effective, i dont see how anyone supports those moves.

If its dirk and howard then yes you go for it and play me spiral and jthi(or 3 other random posters) with them if you have to, but ryson just isnt in that league.

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 07:46 PM

I'd like to say that this free agent schedule is ridiculous. If i understand it, no signatures or agreements can be made until the 9th which is when training camp opens. It's asinine...the celtics for example have 6 players under contract. What a waste of time to have to wait for guys to straggle in. Good grief, give it a week at least.

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 07:47 PM

Howard ain't coming, everyone else is a pipe dream.

BGMaverick9 · 12-01-2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

CadBane is a internet badass who knows what the workings of the NBA better than Marc Stein. That's all that's going on.

Anyway what's up BG? I never got to defend my fantasy football championship lol.

You never replied back when it was time to get the league ready

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Howard ain't coming, everyone else is a pipe dream.

It doesnt even have to be howard or deron williams, but its foolish to lock yourself into one roster with no flexibility when that roster has serious issues for a second or third tier player.

People always come available. We dont know whos going to sign joe johnson when he gets amnestied for example. Maybe a bad team does it with the intention of dealing him. I know we won a title and because of that this team has supplanted the 2001/2003 teams as my favorite teams ever but you guys have gotta understand that we cant permantly lock into it

AO41 · 12-01-2011, 07:58 PM

WOW...just WOW

I like Chandler and I def. think he improved our team and helped get the tile. But hes gettin too much credit IMO. He helped, hes not responsible.

I am in the minority, but tops I give Tyson is 10 mill a year..maybe 11. Anything more than that and I might as well try my chances with Nene or Gasol....Tyson IS NOT WORTH MORE THAN
10-12 MILLION

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 08:02 PM

What makes you think you can get NENE or Gasol? I mean really...If tyson walks there is no guarantee that there will be anyone but Haywood...so you have to be ready to accept that.

dude1394 · 12-01-2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

It doesnt even have to be howard or deron williams, but its foolish to lock yourself into one roster with no flexibility when that roster has serious issues for a second or third tier player.

People always come available. We dont know whos going to sign joe johnson when he gets amnestied for example. Maybe a bad team does it with the intention of dealing him. I know we won a title and because of that this team has supplanted the 2001/2003 teams as my favorite teams ever but you guys have gotta understand that we cant permantly lock into it

I don't think we have to permanently lock into it, but you keep the core and churn the rest. If we have to get rid of haywood to keep tyson, fine....get rid of jjb, caron...fine. But what I saw was dirk, ty, jkiddo, shawn, jet are the core of this team. Breaking that up seems really short-sighted if you want to win a championship.

I think I read that Haywood could have been traded last year, then do it and there is tyson.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 08:04 PM

Btw one of the guys with more knowledge of the new cba than me, i know you can only amnesty existing contracts but does that mean you cant trade for and then amnesty someone? If you can that might be the last real way to use cubes money as a competitive advantage. While we as fans just write off the contracts once theyve been amnestied they do still have to be paid.

AO41 · 12-01-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

What makes you think you can get NENE or Gasol? I mean really...If tyson walks there is no guarantee that there will be anyone but Haywood...so you have to be ready to accept that.

I am not saying we can get them, but take a shot at getting them. IMO they are both overall better players and worth more money.

If Tyson wants more than 12 a year..then give me Haywood and look for someone to bring in..i am sure a few decent names will become available.

BGMaverick9 · 12-01-2011, 08:08 PM

NBA schedules will be released next Tuesday at 6 p.m. CT on NBA TV.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I don't think we have to permanently lock into it, but you keep the core and churn the rest. If we have to get rid of haywood to keep tyson, fine....get rid of jjb, caron...fine. But what I saw was dirk, ty, jkiddo, shawn, jet are the core of this team. Breaking that up seems really short-sighted if you want to win a championship.

I think I read that Haywood could have been traded last year, then do it and there is tyson.

Signing tyson for the 15-17 million thats being thrown around here DOES lock you into it. Even amnestying haywood(which ignores the fact that you then need to go get another productive center with virtually no tradeable assets) and signing chandler at that price puts you at 51-53 mil next year for just dirk, tc, marion, roddy, jones, and brewer. Imo thats absolutely insane

LSMF · 12-01-2011, 08:12 PM

I really can't believe Tyson wants a Max contract...WTF?

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSMF

I really can't believe Tyson wants a Max contract...WTF?

I can believe he wants one, i cant believe someone might give him one

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-01-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Btw one of the guys with more knowledge of the new cba than me, i know you can only amnesty existing contracts but does that mean you cant trade for and then amnesty someone? If you can that might be the last real way to use cubes money as a competitive advantage. While we as fans just write off the contracts once theyve been amnestied they do still have to be paid.

Nope, you have to be the team that signed the contract and the contract has to be before the new CBA.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

Nope, you have to be the team that signed the contract and the contract has to be before the new CBA.

Wait so say gilbert arenas cant be amnestied? I know i asked and im not saying your wrong but that rule makes literally no sense

AO41 · 12-01-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Wait so say gilbert arenas cant be amnestied? I know i asked and im not saying your wrong but that rule makes literally no sense

Gilbert can....I know this because I read an article that davis might be in Cleveland...soo its basically the same situation.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AO41

Gilbert can....I know this because I read an article that davis might be in Cleveland...soo its basically the same situation.

I was just using him as an example. Either his interpretation of the rule is wrong or those guys cant be amnestied

grndmstr_c · 12-01-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

...If tyson walks there is no guarantee that there will be anyone but Haywood...so you have to be ready to accept that.

Ready.

And honestly, you want to talk about "no guarantee", lets talk about Kidd. What kind of guarantee do we have that he's going to be physically capable of providing a repeat of his performance from last postseason? And do you really think re-signing Tyson is going to be sufficient to guarantee that the Mavs will continue to compete for championships once Kidd's effectiveness has run its course?

Thespiralgoeson · 12-01-2011, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Howard ain't coming, everyone else is a pipe dream.

So.... everyone is a pipe dream?

Rick41 · 12-01-2011, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

What makes you think you can get NENE or Gasol? I mean really...If tyson walks there is no guarantee that there will be anyone but Haywood...so you have to be ready to accept that.

Unofficial RUMOR is going around that Gasol turned down a $75M from Memphis.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 08:37 PM

Btw, i know deron said he wont resign but if the nets pick up jj off of the amnesty wire and go get howard, that team could get real scary real quick.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Unofficial RUMOR is going around that Gasol turned down a $75M from Memphis.

Then he either doesnt care about money or hes lost his ever loving mind

DevinHarriswillstart · 12-01-2011, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick41

Unofficial RUMOR is going around that Gasol turned down a $75M from Memphis.

Pretty shocking if true.

Link?

Rick41 · 12-01-2011, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Pretty shocking if true.

Link?

http://twitter.com/#!/HPbasketball/s...14505773764608

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it though.

Edit:

http://twitter.com/#!/HPbasketball/s...20806755028992

Looks like it was nothing.

rmacomic · 12-01-2011, 08:57 PM

What seems most upsetting to me so far is: We have lost part of the season, nearly lost the entire thing. Why? Because the owners were "loosing money." They couldn't afford to pay the players what they had been paying. Now we are hearing rumors bouncing from all around the league that owners are going to break the bank for this batch of free agents. Tyson, Nene, etc. These guy are worth MAX CONTRACTS!!! Right after these assholes spent half a year bitching about the rampant overspending!!! What the literal F@&k!!!

If we start seeing teams offer max deals left and right, then I think everyone who sidded with the owners will owe the NBAPU a huge appology.

RowdyMav · 12-01-2011, 09:13 PM

My first post to this forum.

I found this link http://hoopshype.com/salaries/dallas.htm that shows teams payrolls. Good tool.

CadBane · 12-01-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

CadBane is a internet badass who knows what the workings of the NBA better than Marc Stein. That's all that's going on.

Anyway what's up BG? I never got to defend my fantasy football championship lol.

Just curious what your excuse will be when Tyson doesn't get the max contract?

A. "Well...it was close to the max."
B. "He could have got the max if he wanted to."
C. "So, you don't write for ESPN like geniuses such as Chris Broussard, ergo your correctness is irrelevant."
D. *insert insipid joke about how I'm an asshole.*

LSMF · 12-01-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rmacomic

What seems most upsetting to me so far is: We have lost part of the season, nearly lost the entire thing. Why? Because the owners were "loosing money." They couldn't afford to pay the players what they had been paying. Now we are hearing rumors bouncing from all around the league that owners are going to break the bank for this batch of free agents. Tyson, Nene, etc. These guy are worth MAX CONTRACTS!!! Right after these assholes spent half a year bitching about the rampant overspending!!! What the literal F@&k!!!

If we start seeing teams offer max deals left and right, then I think everyone who sidded with the owners will owe the NBAPU a huge appology.

You know, this is a great point.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 12-01-2011, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Wait so say gilbert arenas cant be amnestied? I know i asked and im not saying your wrong but that rule makes literally no sense

I'm wrong yes but what I meant to say was from what I understand you can't trade a player after the CBA and then that team amnesty the player. But if they were traded before the CBA they can be amnestied. If I'm wrong about this my bad.

CadBane · 12-01-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

This is gonna sound really odd and it could be confirmation bias but i remember dirks man d on aldridge being better than chandlers.

Thats neither here nor there though as what hes worth isnt dependant on that one series

You are absolutely correct. Dirk also guarded Pau better (though Ty did a fine job...along with Pau's own mental issues.) Tyson actually did a pretty poor job on LA, he was almost always in foul trouble. That said, Ty is of course a huge defensive factor. His Man D isn't what makes him so special (of course it's usually quite good...except against bulky centers like Marc Gasol, Brook Lopez, Bogut), but his help and team D are terrific.

Five-ofan · 12-01-2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs

I'm wrong yes but what I meant to say was from what I understand you can't trade a player after the CBA and that team amnesty the player. But if they were traded before the CBA they can be amnestied. If I'm wrong about this my bad.

I know you cant sign them and then amnesty them but it makes some sense to be able to trade for and amnesty someone. And if so, howard becomes much more in play because we do have expiring contracts and the ability to take on arenas' gid forsaken contract and then amnesty him(this would require a chandler sign and trade.