To Melo or not to Melo

[spreedom]

Are we openly rooting for Deng to fail as a Maverick before free agency has even begun?

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I don't get that prediction. He's never averaged less than 14 pp36, and his career average is 16 pp36. Are you expecting he'd come to Dallas and have his minutes cut?

I'm expecting he gets his minutes cut some(I'm thinking 33ish a game) and I think he's the 4th option on offense. When he's only been less than the second option for one season in his career. I just don't see his avenue to a ton of points here. He's not getting 18 ft isos here like he did in Chicago, he can't shoot and he's not a great rebounder. I just don't see why you'd run isos for him when you have so many better options.

Spree I hope deng avges 20 and 10 if he comes here, but I'm predicting what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen.

[sefant77]

We won the title with Shawn averaging 12/7....sooo?

Pretty sure his TS% would automatically rise here, its the Dirk/RC factor. I also think he will "save" us some points at defense.

And if he takes high percentage shots as 3rd option and makes them, averaging something like 14PPG and plays good to great D, then im fine with him. Even with the 10m price tag.

[escobar317]

Originally Posted by dirt_dobber

say no to melo.
chucker.
ball stopper.
iso-ball.
chemistry-killing disaster.

Same thing you all said about Monta Ellis lol

[Melonhead]

Hope everyone tuned into the nets heat tonight. Joe Johnson iso on LeBron twice with less than 2 min. Bricked both shots hard and it cost them the game...that's carmelo game right there. Iso pull up jumpshot brick

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Hope everyone tuned into the nets heat tonight. Joe Johnson iso on LeBron twice with less than 2 min. Bricked both shots hard and it cost them the game...that's carmelo game right there. Iso pull up jumpshot brick

Iv long been a joe Johnson fan, but melo is a much better player

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Iv long been a joe Johnson fan, but melo is a much better player

That's an understatement.

[dmakk]

As far as Carmelo is concerned, they shouldn't waste any resources in chasing him, but if he's interested, they should reciprocate that interest. He may be overrated, but he's still top 5 at his position. I have faith in Rick to develop better plays than isos at the end of games.

I'd love to have Deng as our 3. I don't think there's a better defensive 3 on the market, and you still have flexibility to upgrade other positions.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Jproxursoxoff

No to Threat Title. Just NO. Melo is one of two elite players in this league (other being Westbrook) that im sooo glad will never be a Mav.

Melo is lockerroom cancer. Everybody knows this. The dude would take a scoring title over a playoff berth any and every year.

I repeat: NO.

Agreed, the only year, he wasn't a cancer was when Kidd was in there. Kidd showed him how to ball the right way. 54 wins with Kidd was a career high in the team category for Melo. It tied for the 2009 season while he was in Denver...with another veteran PG, Billups. The guy needs direction that he respects, Billups, Karl, and Kidd kept the guy in line....can Dirk, Carlisle....doubtful and why gamble the max deal that it might work out....Dirk isn't going to be there forever and given the max deal, you'd expect the guy you tag the face of the franchise on after Dirk.....???? I'd pass. Deng is the smarter move, allow Monta and Calderon to create, Deng and Dirk to finish.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Agreed, the only year, he wasn't a cancer was when Kidd was in there. Kidd showed him how to ball the right way. 54 wins with Kidd was a career high in the team category for Melo. It tied for the 2009 season while he was in Denver...with another veteran PG, Billups. The guy needs direction that he respects, Billups, Karl, and Kidd kept the guy in line....can Dirk, Carlisle....doubtful and why gamble the max deal that it might work out....Dirk isn't going to be there forever and given the max deal, you'd expect the guy you tag the face of the franchise on after Dirk.....???? I'd pass. Deng is the smarter move, allow Monta and Calderon to create, Deng and Dirk to finish.

So Calderon isn't a veteran pg? Carlisle isn't a leader??? This makes no sense

[Floppy]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

I'm expecting he gets his minutes cut some(I'm thinking 33ish a game) and I think he's the 4th option on offense. When he's only been less than the second option for one season in his career. I just don't see his avenue to a ton of points here. He's not getting 18 ft isos here like he did in Chicago, he can't shoot and he's not a great rebounder. I just don't see why you'd run isos for him when you have so many better options.

Spree I hope deng avges 20 and 10 if he comes here, but I'm predicting what I think will happen, not what I hope will happen.

Who's the 3rd option on offense ?

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Floppy

Who's the 3rd option on offense ?

Calderon or vince

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Calderon or vince

So the 11.4 and 11.9 PPG guys are going to outscore the 16.0 PPG guy?

I don't see it.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

So the 11.4 and 11.9 PPG guys are going to outscore the 16.0 PPG guy?

I don't see it.

Context my friend, context. I'll bet anyone anything they want. Barring serious injuries to dirk or Ellis, there isn't a chance in hell that he averages 16 here.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Context my friend, context. I'll bet anyone anything they want. Barring serious injuries to dirk or Ellis, there isn't a chance in hell that he averages 16 here.

Why not?

[purplefrog]

Deng vs Melo? I'd rather take a defensive minded center with an above average BBIQ. Find your 5, pay whatever it takes, and then fill in the SF position with whatever is left over. I doubt it will be Melo. I think Deng is unlikely. If you can't find someone to protect the rim then you better find the best defensive minded SF available and overpay them(if need be). Again, I doubt it is Melo. Deng maybe.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by purplefrog

Deng vs Melo? I'd rather take a defensive minded center with an above average BBIQ. Find your 5, pay whatever it takes, and then fill in the SF position with whatever is left over. I doubt it will be Melo. I think Deng is unlikely. If you can't find someone to protect the rim then you better find the best defensive minded SF available and overpay them(if need be). Again, I doubt it is Melo. Deng maybe.

I'm a little split between wanting a full-time starter at center (our committee center was actually pretty good) and wanting to replace Marion, who has shown that he's finally starting to decline significantly.

I'm not sure that either need is significantly more pressing than the other.

[LonghornDub]

Yeah I'm not buying the JJ to Melo comparison. Melo is significantly more talented.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

I'm a little split between wanting a full-time starter at center (our committee center was actually pretty good) and wanting to replace Marion, who has shown that he's finally starting to decline significantly.

I'm not sure that either need is significantly more pressing than the other.

I think center's a little more pressing, but only because the top guy in the center rotation has a tendency to lose competitive focus.

[grndmstr_c]

Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?

4 years ago.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?

I just don't see how Pierce makes any sense if the Mavs are trying to fix their defense. Gasol is interesting, but I feel like his price might be higher than they are willing to pay.

[kg_veteran]

Originally Posted by Jack.Kerr

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NhEFq3USMU

Don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.

This is pretty much where I come down on the subject of pursuing Carmelo Anthony.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Why not?

Because what he does to get most of those points, he won't get to do here. He's the anti monta Ellis. Monta was a player with obvious flaws but who had an obvious route to succeed on this team. The pick and roll with dirk and just flat attacking the rim while our shooting spaced the floor.

Deng doesn't really have any huge holes other than shooting in his game but he also doesn't have a clear path to success. There are obviously a ton of ways to score in an basketball game but if you were going to break them down they would look like this in no order spot up shooting(deng can't do it), pick and roll ball handling(deng can't do it), pick and roll screening(he can do it in the sense that anyone can do it and he actually currently finishes a decent number of pick and rolls with the mid post game dirk has, he's just not good enough at it for that to be a desired outcome), cuts(deng is solid at this but not special), garbage including offensive rebounds, broken plays and the like(deng isn't much of an offensive rebounder but he gets a decent amount of garbage buckets due to his bbiq), and finally iso either on the perimeter or in the post. This is how deng gets most of his points, on 18 foot ft line extended isos. The problem with that is, if he comes to the mavs and we are goin to run 18 ft ft line extended isos for a forward, he won't be getting them.

I'm really curious, what exactly do you think we will run for him for him to score so much? Do you really think we ISO him with dirk or monta or vince or even harris on the floor consistently? Do you think he spots up and suddenly becomes a much better shooter? Do we choose to use him as the roll man in the pick and roll instead of dirk? I just honestly don't see it happening. Deng is every bit as bad if not worse as a shooter than Marion(and I mean Marion now, not Phoenix Marion) he doesn't rebound as well and hes not much of a passer either.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I just don't see how Pierce makes any sense if the Mavs are trying to fix their defense. Gasol is interesting, but I feel like his price might be higher than they are willing to pay.

I was actually thinking Gasol would be the bigger question mark on the defensive end, though certainly neither would do anything for team speed/athleticism. I do think both are the kinds of guys that could do well on a Carlisle-coached team, though, and I wonder if they might not end up being relatively smart buys in this free agent class.

[yahyes]

I don't remember changing the title of this thread..

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by yahyes

I don't remember changing the title of this thread..

You didn't but it was a grammatical nightmare

[yahyes]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

You didn't but it was a grammatical nightmare

[EricaLubarsky]

[some1nw]

damn chris paul is a choker

[yahyes]

Gortat, Melo, Devin, Blair, Vince, Marion, and DIRK. Sign these guys.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

Quick question about a couple names that haven't come up here. At what point, if any, do the Mavs take a serious look at Pierce and/or Gasol?

I spent some time considering Pierce a couple weeks ago. Ultimately I decided that, although he's still a solid player and seems to still be a solid team defender, I just don't see how this team is successful without a SF in the starting lineup that can guard quickness.

If they want to make Shaun Livingston their starting PG then Pierce is someone that might make sense. But if Calderon or even Harris are going to be starting at PG I don't see it.

With Gasol your'e just betting that he awesome offensive combination up front makes up for terrible defense. Just not sure we can make that work.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

So Calderon isn't a veteran pg? Carlisle isn't a leader??? This makes no sense

I did not say leader, they maybe great leaders, but can they garner Melo's respect? Respect is a whole different thing. Individuals are different, react differently. Kidd had Melo's respect from Day 1 when in NY. Why? I don't know, that's more psychological than anything else.

Like I said, if you're willing to gamble max money on Melo that he'll respect Calderon and Carlisle enough to lead the Mavs back to the championship, then great, lets go get him. The Knicks were a mess this year, and Kidd was a huge part of it. Melo went out and got his, but they didn't defend, offense was harder, spacing was bad. Melo is not a leader and post Dirk, is this the guy you want to saddle the face of the franchise on. Or do you chase a cheaper piece like Deng and continue to look for the successor to Dirk on the peripheral....keeping the options open.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I spent some time considering Pierce a couple weeks ago. Ultimately I decided that, although he's still a solid player and seems to still be a solid team defender, I just don't see how this team is successful without a SF in the starting lineup that can guard quickness.

If they want to make Shaun Livingston their starting PG then Pierce is someone that might make sense. But if Calderon or even Harris are going to be starting at PG I don't see it.

With Gasol your'e just betting that he awesome offensive combination up front makes up for terrible defense. Just not sure we can make that work.

Defense is going to be huge in the west. If you get a guy that can make things difficult on KD, that's a huge wild card that you have. Deng as the replacement for Marion is not a bad way to go. KD will still get his, but how? You want to empty that gas tank fast, make him take difficult shots, make him work for those shots....so when's Tony Allen an FA?

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Because what he does to get most of those points, he won't get to do here. He's the anti monta Ellis. Monta was a player with obvious flaws but who had an obvious route to succeed on this team. The pick and roll with dirk and just flat attacking the rim while our shooting spaced the floor.

Deng doesn't really have any huge holes other than shooting in his game but he also doesn't have a clear path to success. There are obviously a ton of ways to score in an basketball game but if you were going to break them down they would look like this in no order spot up shooting(deng can't do it), pick and roll ball handling(deng can't do it), pick and roll screening(he can do it in the sense that anyone can do it and he actually currently finishes a decent number of pick and rolls with the mid post game dirk has, he's just not good enough at it for that to be a desired outcome), cuts(deng is solid at this but not special), garbage including offensive rebounds, broken plays and the like(deng isn't much of an offensive rebounder but he gets a decent amount of garbage buckets due to his bbiq), and finally iso either on the perimeter or in the post. This is how deng gets most of his points, on 18 foot ft line extended isos. The problem with that is, if he comes to the mavs and we are goin to run 18 ft ft line extended isos for a forward, he won't be getting them.

I'm really curious, what exactly do you think we will run for him for him to score so much? Do you really think we ISO him with dirk or monta or vince or even harris on the floor consistently? Do you think he spots up and suddenly becomes a much better shooter? Do we choose to use him as the roll man in the pick and roll instead of dirk? I just honestly don't see it happening. Deng is every bit as bad if not worse as a shooter than Marion(and I mean Marion now, not Phoenix Marion) he doesn't rebound as well and hes not much of a passer either.

Great points, his numbers offensively went down in Cleveland, you'd expect with a better PG, he'd get cleaner looks, but his percentage went down as well, shots dropped. Is he a one trick pony hidden in Chicago's recent success?

[DevinHarriswillstart]

If people are concerned that Deng was just a product of Thibodeau's system, then I don't see why he can't be that for Carlisle's system. Deng is a two way player. He may not be a great offensive or defensive player, but he has a pretty good all-around game when he gets going and is healthy. I have some reservations about him as well, but damn, we gotta sign somebody.

Seems like opinions are all over the place. Most of us would agree that this is a make or break summer still...no? You gotta go after somebody so Melo, Deng, Gasol, Pierce, Monroe, Gortat, Ariza...def have prioritize who you're going to construct your team with.

I know he isn't too popular around here, but I'd still take a hard, long look at Monroe. Young bigs with his talent rarely come along. And even though he isn't ideal defensively next to Dirk, he would be a guy who you could build around more long term. Plus, we'd still have Dalembert for defense. I think about it this way...if we had Monroe versus the Spurs, do we win that series? What about Deng? I do think that is how the FO has to think. What players would be needed to beat the Spurs and/or Thunders of the world.

[yahyes]

Steve Kerr isn't going to coach the Knicks after all.. Which means Mavs should be first in line if Phil Jackson is about to do a fire sale to first start trading Tyson. Then we can see if Melo wants to join.

[Five-ofan]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

If people are concerned that Deng was just a product of Thibodeau's system, then I don't see why he can't be that for Carlisle's system. Deng is a two way player. He may not be a great offensive or defensive player, but he has a pretty good all-around game when he gets going and is healthy. I have some reservations about him as well, but damn, we gotta sign somebody.

Seems like opinions are all over the place. Most of us would agree that this is a make or break summer still...no? You gotta go after somebody so Melo, Deng, Gasol, Pierce, Monroe, Gortat, Ariza...def have prioritize who you're going to construct your team with.

I know he isn't too popular around here, but I'd still take a hard, long look at Monroe. Young bigs with his talent rarely come along. And even though he isn't ideal defensively next to Dirk, he would be a guy who you could build around more long term. Plus, we'd still have Dalembert for defense. I think about it this way...if we had Monroe versus the Spurs, do we win that series? What about Deng? I do think that is how the FO has to think. What players would be needed to beat the Spurs and/or Thunders of the world.

It's not just that he was a product of the system, it's that he was a product of the touches, and the fact that they were an awful offense is a big reason why he got those touches. I think Ariza is going to get massively overpaid too but I think he fits better than deng. I also wouldn't be opposed to sefalosha depending on what he costs. All that said, and even realizing how unlikely it is, melo should be our top priority(not counting Lebron)

[Melonhead]

In assessing the Knicks’ situation, Kerr had told confidants that he believed Anthony could be a dynamic weapon in the triangle offense that Jackson is hoping to have his new coach install. But he was less sanguine about whether Anthony, who will turn 30 this month, would be eager to re-tailor the way he plays at this point in his career.

Kerr was wary of Anthony’s willingness to deal with a learning curve, along with the prospect of a roster rebuild, or what he described to NBA.com as “a big undertaking” that would “take time.”

The end.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

In assessing the Knicks’ situation, Kerr had told confidants that he believed Anthony could be a dynamic weapon in the triangle offense that Jackson is hoping to have his new coach install. But he was less sanguine about whether Anthony, who will turn 30 this month, would be eager to re-tailor the way he plays at this point in his career.

Kerr was wary of Anthony’s willingness to deal with a learning curve, along with the prospect of a roster rebuild, or what he described to NBA.com as “a big undertaking” that would “take time.”

The end.

The Knicks are the only team that really needs to be concerned about that, IMO. They can, and will, offer him more money than anybody else, and hence there's a good chance that he'll stay regardless of his willingness to work with the new coach and in the new system. If he leaves, though, he'll be giving up millions to do so, and it seems to me unlikely that he'd make that kind of sacrifice if he weren't excited about the prospect of working with whoever his new coach was going to be. Of course, I also think that he's very unlikely to pass on the money, and will end up re-signing with NY regardless of their new coach/system. But that doesn't change my view that there's almost no chance whatsoever that Dallas ends up locked into a bad-for-the-team long-term deal with Anthony.