Jeremy Lin.... - Page 15 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Of course the system and opportunity are a large factor in this - I've said so myself (d'antoni's system, d'antoni about to get fired, Lin not looking over his shoulder, etc.). But the system doesn't cause the % he is putting up. If he was shooting 30 times a game and making 30%, I'd be right there with you. But he's not.

Not my words...I'm just adding the opinions of some NBA players. You're welcome to disagree with them, obviously.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Not my words...I'm just adding the opinions of some NBA players. You're welcome to disagree with them, obviously.

Ha ha classic. "'Here are some quotes from people that know more about basketball than you' (again - rude) - oh but i'm not using them to try and back up my point so if someone disagrees, they're disagreeing with the NBA players, not me".

Another reason why you suck.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Ha ha classic. "'Here are some quotes from people that know more about basketball than you' (again - rude) - oh but i'm not using them to try and back up my point so if someone disagrees, they're disagreeing with the NBA players, not me".

Another reason why you suck.

What? You're arguments are really strange, man. Really odd.

I'm just stating what some NBA players think, to add to the pot. I realize that we're only supposed to post good things about Lin, but damn...

twelli · 02-20-2012, 02:52 AM

Is he going to learn and become better or is he already at his best now and will decline soon? I mean, what are the odds here? Guy is 23 and just started to play heavy minutes in the league. He's smart, has a good work ethic, is not undersized for his position and has shown a lot of versatility so far. Why shouldn't he be a starter for years to come?

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 08:28 AM

Also, my reason for bringing up Terry, Crawford, Odom (when he didn't suck), and let's add Harden to the list... just because you come off the bench doesn't mean you are merely a rotational player. Those guys are starter level, they just come off the bench because it fits their team. But they could be starting on 80% of the other teams in the league.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Also, my reason for bringing up Terry, Crawford, Odom (when he didn't suck), and let's add Harden to the list... just because you come off the bench doesn't mean you are merely a rotational player. Those guys are starter level, they just come off the bench because it fits their team. But they could be starting on 80% of the other teams in the league.

Yeah, those guys might be top 50 active NBA players depending on the year and system. "Bench player" doesn't mean much in that context.

Scoobay · 02-20-2012, 11:08 AM

I think this thread will be fun to look back at no matter what.

obviously some are slower to get on the bandwagon than others though the momentum seems to be gaining even just from looking back at the first few pages.

thought this was a fun link and a reminder that anything can happen. (not saying Lin will just be a flash in the pan)

http://www.sportspickle.com/opinion/...sports-history

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobay

thought this was a fun link and a reminder that anything can happen. (not saying Lin will just be a flash in the pan)

http://www.sportspickle.com/opinion/...sports-history

so the apt NBA comparison from that list (and one i have heard already) is Flip Murray.

The difference, though, is that Lin (so far) brings more to the table than just scoring. He is orchestrating an offense as opposed to just shooting.

It's not like Flip dropped off the face of the earth - he put up over 12 ppg just 3 years ago. Millions of people dream of having that type of career. But I think Lin will be more than that simply because he has other facets to his game.

Lin doesn't need to score over 20 a game to continue to be a viable starter. He could average 12 points and 6 assists and be a legit NBA starter at PG.

Scoobay · 02-20-2012, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

so the apt NBA comparison from that list (and one i have heard already) is Flip Murray.

The difference, though, is that Lin (so far) brings more to the table than just scoring. He is orchestrating an offense as opposed to just shooting.

It's not like Flip dropped off the face of the earth - he put up over 12 ppg just 3 years ago. Millions of people dream of having that type of career. But I think Lin will be more than that simply because he has other facets to his game.

Lin doesn't need to score over 20 a game to continue to be a viable starter. He could average 12 points and 6 assists and be a legit NBA starter at PG.

agreed - Flip wasn't that bad. He was never that great after his initial outburst but still was a pretty good back up. his 'star' potential was definitely flash in the pan but he was a respectable rotation player and back up guard.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scoobay

agreed - Flip wasn't that bad. He was never that great after his initial outburst but still was a pretty good back up. his 'star' potential was definitely flash in the pan but he was a respectable rotation player and back up guard.

And my point is that due to his skill set, I think Lin will be more than that. Cad thinks that's his ceiling.

I think Lin will settle as a consistent NBA starting PG, although not an all-star (although he'll probably make the all-star team every year he plays because of popular vote).

tcat075 · 02-20-2012, 12:28 PM

I laughed at the tags.

DevinHarriswillstart · 02-20-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcat075

I laughed at the tags.

I just noticed them this morning. A nice laugh for a Monday.

tcat075 · 02-20-2012, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I just noticed them this morning. A nice laugh for a Monday.

My favorite is "Jeremy Lin". Everyone other one is an attempt at humor, but one poor soul actually tried to use the tags correctly. what was he thinking...

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 04:40 PM

"i'm not wrong, you dumb fuck"

"i won't change my stance"

all that is fine and good, like i said, you are entitled to your opinion. Just as everyone else is entitled to theirs. We agree on that.

Just wondering at what point you would be able to claim that you are right/wrong. If he performs well as a starter for a year? 2 years? 3 years? What's good enough for you?

Right now, the Lin-vangelists (i'm not one - as I said, he's going to come back to earth) are correct. And i give them that. I'm not arguing with them.

The only thing he's shown as a flaw in his game are turnovers. You're just so far on the negative on the kid that it's all you focus on. There's evidence that TO% is a better stat to look at, as well as usage rate, and you dismiss it (with an unbelievably rude attitude - that's why you suck).

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

"i'm not wrong, you dumb fuck"

"i won't change my stance"

all that is fine and good, like i said, you are entitled to your opinion. Just as everyone else is entitled to theirs. We agree on that.

Just wondering at what point you would be able to claim that you are right/wrong. If he performs well as a starter for a year? 2 years? 3 years? What's good enough for you?

Right now, the Lin-vangelists (i'm not one - as I said, he's going to come back to earth) are correct. And i give them that. I'm not arguing with them.

The only thing he's shown as a flaw in his game are turnovers. You're just so far on the negative on the kid that it's all you focus on. There's evidence that TO% is a better stat to look at, as well as usage rate, and you dismiss it (with an unbelievably rude attitude - that's why you suck).

How are you not getting this? I'm just curious...

As I blatantly said in my previous post, I'M NOT WRONG AS OF YET. NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE.

What is complicated about that? It's too early to say one way or the other. So yes, if someone says I'm wrong at this juncture, that's fucking stupid. Almost as stupid as quoting it as though that proves their point....

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

How are you not getting this? I'm just curious...

As I blatantly said in my previous post, I'M NOT WRONG AS OF YET. NEITHER IS ANYONE ELSE.

What is complicated about that? It's too early to say one way or the other. So yes, if someone says I'm wrong at this juncture, that's fucking stupid. Almost as stupid as quoting it as though that proves their point....

You really seem to be the one missing my point/question as you rush to criticize - at what point is the sample size big enough for you to claim you are right or admit you are wrong? I truly want to know. You seemed to indicate 5 years in a previous post, but how dare I make assumptions based on something you have actually posted.

Because as of now you appear to have an open-ended stance. My "what if, in 10 years, Lin comes off the bench?" statement was an exaggeration based on your open-ended stance. It's easy to say "he'll just be a rotational player" (or similar), when no timeline is set.

As i said before, having an opinion that he will never be more than a rotational player is just that. An opinion. I just don't see the facts we have been presented with backing up that stance. That is the argument taking place here - it appears that you think the current sample size reinforces your opinion (based solely on turnovers), when it does not.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

You really seem to be the one missing my point/question as you rush to criticize - at what point is the sample size big enough for you to claim you are right or admit you are wrong? I truly want to know. You seemed to indicate 5 years in a previous post, but how dare I make assumptions based on something you have actually posted.

Because as of now you appear to have an open-ended stance. My "what if, in 10 years, Lin comes off the bench?" statement was an exaggeration based on your open-ended stance. It's easy to say "he'll just be a rotational player" (or similar), when no timeline is set.

As i said before, having an opinion that he will never be more than a rotational player is just that. An opinion. I just don't see the facts we have been presented with backing up that stance. That is the argument taking place here - it appears that you think the current sample size reinforces your opinion (based solely on turnovers), when it does not.

You said it yourself, I said 5 years. What exactly is open-ended about that, lol? Seems pretty fucking finite, actually.

Now, if he's averaging 20/10 next year then I'd say I'll go ahead and admit defeat and that I'm wrong. But otherwise, yeah, 5 years.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

You said it yourself, I said 5 years. What exactly is open-ended about that, lol? Seems pretty fucking finite, actually.

Now, if he's averaging 20/10 next year then I'd say I'll go ahead and admit defeat and that I'm wrong. But otherwise, yeah, 5 years.

Ok that's what i thought. Wanted to confirm that before giving my opinion, lest i be chastised for making assumptions. My opinion is that waiting 5 years to evaluate talent is a joke, plain and simple. So good for you for having a long stance that could prove you wrong/right depending on what happens in that very extended period of time. Hell, he could tear both ACLs and be out of the league next year.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 04:55 PM

More from Terry.

"I've been a point guard in this league and 45 turnovers in seven games would have gotten me on the bench real fast. He's in D'Antoni's system, and any player that plays a guard position in D'Antoni's system has opportunities to be able to put up good numbers, and I think that's what he's been able to do. The ball's in your hands a lot and you're going to have turnovers. I think it's a lot of hype right now. Is he going to be a good player in the future? If he continues to work, he will. But given the opportunity, he's taken advantage of it. But everybody's making a lot out of just the seven games he's played. I've been in the league 13 years, and seven games don't necessarily make a career, but he does have great buzz right now. But we'll see when he face the champs tonight."

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 05:06 PM

He's coming to come down to Earth.

To not to do so would put him in top 10 MVP voting/All-NBA conversation. In the games where he's played significant minutes, he is averaging 25/9/4/2 at 51%. Must mention the 6 turnovers but that's certainly Russell Westbrook territory.

If anything, that supernova performance is why I think he'll regress (it's certainly not because he's going to get less experienced, smaller or slower). Perhaps a Jose Calderon or poor Steve Nash level should be reasonable (15-7?). Again, big question is the Melo fit. Melo could bog down the offense or Melo could let him conserve a little more energy, pull off the hard doubles, improves spacing.. who knows..

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 05:10 PM

Not really super interested in JET's opinion as Lin is 8-1 and has gotten nods of respect and approval from PGs like Magic, Nash and now Kidd. To be fair to JET, the hype quote was a pre-game quote. Afterwards, JET was more kind to the new sensation...

“I think they found something in Lin, and they’re starting to piece together a team that can beat anyone,” Mavs guard Jason Terry said.

The before:

Before the game he called the hoopla surrounding Lin a lot of hype and wondered if the kid can really keep it going, saying, "We'll see when he faces the champs."

I think it's underestimate him at your own risk at this point.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Not really super interested in JET's opinion as Lin is 8-1 and has gotten nods of respect and approval from PGs like Magic, Nash and now Kidd. To be fair to JET, the hype quote was a pre-game quote. Afterwards, JET was more kind to the new sensation.

Eh...not really. But part of that is just Jet being Jet.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 05:20 PM

For NBA opinions on Lin, visit:

http://www.interbasket.net/news/8298...y-nba-players/

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 07:19 PM

Don't worry, SMC - He'll just pretend he never brought up Tyreke Evans or being an all-star. He's having an imaginary argument with USA Today.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:00 PM

I haven't seen the game tonight, but from the box score, it looks like Deron is going off a bit. And Lin still shoots too much IMO.

*On the plus side, 0 turnovers thus far.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:24 PM

Deron with a weird statline. 8 threes, 8 fts, no 2s...

LetsGoMavs · 02-20-2012, 09:27 PM

Future Mav D-Will regulating Linsanity

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:28 PM

Defensive stalwarts Baron Davis, JR Smith and Melo are being integrated into the DMA system.

Baron is a -10 in 7 minutes but Lin is in foul trouble.

DWill is a beast though.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Defensive stalwarts Baron Davis, JR Smith and Melo are being integrated into the DMA system.

Baron is a -10 in 7 minutes but Lin is in foul trouble.

DWill is a beast though.

Lin is -6 himself. Just one game, but it's interesting to see how he'll fare against teams the 2nd time around (I'm sure DWill was looking forward to some revenge, since Linsanity started against him.)

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Lin is -6 himself. Just one game, but it's interesting to see how he'll fare against teams the 2nd time around (I'm sure DWill was looking forward to some revenge, since Linsanity started against him.)

And the main highlight from that game was Lin blowing by Williams as he was on his knees. I'm sure d-will had a little extra motivation.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Lin is -6 himself. Just one game, but it's interesting to see how he'll fare against teams the 2nd time around (I'm sure DWill was looking forward to some revenge, since Linsanity started against him.)

Lin is holding his own. Best +/- with signficiant minutes with Fields. Chandler's also been in foul trouble and Shumpert, their best guy who should be on DWill, is out.

DWill motivated is as good as it can get in the league though. Just beasting.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

Lin is holding his own. Best +/- with signficiant minutes with Fields. Chandler's also been in foul trouble and Shumpert, their best guy who should be on DWill, is out.

DWill motivated is as good as it can get in the league though. Just beasting.

See...this is what I'm talking about not being objective.

I'm sorry, but Lin is NOT holding his own.

He's 5-15 with 13 points. The man he's guarding 36/6 on 19 shots.

It's one game, but you can't even admit that he got schooled tonight.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

See...this is what I'm talking about not being objective.

I'm sorry, but Lin is NOT holding his own.

He's 5-15 with 13 points. The man he's guarding 36/6 on 19 shots.

It's one game, but you can't even admit that he got schooled tonight.

His shot isn't there but his +/- is fine.

DWill is clearly in a zone (career shooting game?). He's done a lot of his damage against other defenders, too. That was the point about Baron.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:31 PM

Looks like melo may be overcompensating and deferring too much. With melo back, Lin should not be shooting more than melo and amare.

CadBane · 02-20-2012, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux

Looks like melo may be overcompensating and deferring too much. With melo back, Lin should not be shooting more than melo and amare.

Agree with you there. Melo probably feels awkward knowing how he might take the flack if they start losing.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Agree with you there. Melo probably feels awkward knowing how he might take the flack if they start losing.

Absolutely. It's good for him they lost to the hornets.

But he doesn't want to come back, take more shots, then lose. MSG would turn on him in a heartbeat.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:41 PM

Lin now with more than twice as many shots as melo. Not good.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:44 PM

I think Melo's shots will only go up. It's his first game back. He's been out of a rhythm.

In a few games, I expect the shot distribution to be more in its natural place.

Big Boy Laroux · 02-20-2012, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitproof

I think Melo's shots will only go up. It's his first game back. He's been out of a rhythm.

In a few games, I expect the shot distribution to be more in its natural place.

Oh yes, for sure. As I said above, he's probably overcompensating. It will take a few games to adjust, more than likely.

rabbitproof · 02-20-2012, 09:49 PM

Melo/Tyson taking over a bit while DWill sits.