Official offseason 2013-2014 thread

[rabbitproof]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Hope never rests, but neither do people who poo on optimists.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me, can't get fooled again!

Great W-ism. For once, very applicable.

[saclare]

TIL that I live in Hicksville, Texas.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

^Ellis does look bad in that situation...especially since he decided to take games 2 and 3 off.

Problem is that the Bucks were out long before the playoffs started. Ellis and Jennings just don't fit together...at all. They had 0 chance of beating Miami.

[spreedom]

Sure doesn't help matters that they gave up a couple of nice-looking pieces for Redick, who Boylan proceeded not to use.

[LonghornDub]

The prestige of playing for the Mavericks will increase substantially once Dwight and CP3 sign in Dallas.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

The prestige of playing for the Mavericks will increase substantially once Dwight and CP3 sign in Dallas.

Win!

[yahyes]

I think Bernard James would be a nice backup for Dwight Howard. IF he chose to sign here. Also, Chris Paul can look at an backup like Collison or Mike James.

[sefant77]

Should have found a way to steal Bogut from the Bucks when his value was down

[JeffViggiano]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Should have found a way to steal Bogut from the Bucks when his value was down

injury prone...but he is good.very good center.

ellis is very talented.
if we don't sign CP3 i don't see a best PG/PG than him in this FA...

[Melonhead]

Also I change my mind about Ellis. Had no idea he was a cancer in the locker room.

When Mark Jackson says the culture changed once Monta Ellis was traded, well, mama, der go dat man.

[Underdog]

The whole "city of Dallas vs. city of LA" debate is getting old, and probably doesn't hold as much weight with professional athletes as everyone thinks... Here are the real issues:

Sterling/Buss vs. Cuban
D'Antoni/Del Negro vs. Carlisle
Kobe/Griffin vs. Dirk
$30 million now vs. $30 million later

[oilfieldtrash]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The whole "city of Dallas vs. city of LA" debate is getting old, and probably doesn't hold as much weight with professional athletes as everyone thinks... Here are the real issues:

Sterling/Buss vs. Cuban
D'Antoni/Del Negro vs. Carlisle
Kobe/Griffin vs. Dirk
$30 million now vs. $30 million later

Do you pinky swear that they'll get their 30 million later?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The whole "city of Dallas vs. city of LA" debate is getting old, and probably doesn't hold as much weight with professional athletes as everyone thinks... Here are the real issues:

Sterling/Buss vs. Cuban
D'Antoni/Del Negro vs. Carlisle
Kobe/Griffin vs. Dirk
$30 million now vs. $30 million later

I think the LA attraction is pretty significant, as is the mystique of the Lakers. And I think your final bullet is the most important one to almost all players.

[DirkFTW]

Originally Posted by Underdog

The whole "city of Dallas vs. city of LA" debate is getting old, and probably doesn't hold as much weight with professional athletes as everyone thinks... Here are the real issues:

Sterling/Buss vs. Cuban
D'Antoni/Del Negro vs. Carlisle
Kobe/Griffin vs. Dirk
$30 million now vs. $30 million later

Don't forget ________ vs. Dallas Cowboys!






wait, crap...

[pepe]

If what is preventing DHoward and CP3 signing with the Mavs is the guarantee 5th year, can these guys with the money saved in state taxes find an insurance underwriter to write them a nice policy to guarantee the 5th year income in case they get hurt. it make more sense to sign consecutive 4 years contract that give themselves an opportunity to decline in the 5th year and leave a lot of dough on the table in the next contract....just thinking outside the box.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by pepe

If what is preventing DHoward and CP3 signing with the Mavs is the guarantee 5th year, can these guys with the money saved in state taxes find an insurance underwriter to write them a nice policy to guarantee the 5th year income in case they get hurt. it make more sense to sign consecutive 4 years contract that give themselves an opportunity to decline in the 5th year and leave a lot of dough on the table in the next contract....just thinking outside the box.

Good question... I don't know about the underwriter, but it gives me an excuse to re-post this here:

L.A./Dallas dollars difference not nearly as much as it appears

link

The Mavericks will have to overcome a money mountain to convince Chris Paul or Dwight Howard to come to Dallas.

The collective bargaining agreement gives their current teams a tremendous financial edge this summer, allowing them to offer five-year deals with annual raises that are 7.5 percent of the first year’s salary, as opposed to the four-year deals with 4.5 percent raises the Mavs and others can offer.

In Howard’s case, it’s a difference of $30.4 million. In Paul’s case, the difference is $28.2 million.

Dig a little deeper in the numbers, however, and the Mavs (and Houston Rockets, for that matter) can make a case that the offers would be a lot closer than they appear.

California millionaires pay a 12.3 percent state income tax after last year's tax hike. The great state of Texas doesn’t levy a state income tax on its citizens.

But that 12.3 percent is deceiving, because NBA players pay state income taxes for each road game. So cut it in half. And there is all kinds of complicated legal speak in the laws, so we'll stick with estimates.

That means Howard would pay about $7.5 million more in taxes if he spends the next five seasons playing for the Lakers instead of the Mavs (or Rockets). Paul would pay about $6.5 million more in taxes if he sticks with the Clippers instead of joining one of the Texas teams.

Essentially, the lack of a state income tax in Texas more than makes up for the three-percent-higher annual raises the Lakers and Clippers can offer their superstars.

However, it doesn’t address the extra year in the contract. It’d take a major leap of faith for Paul or Howard to feel like that isn’t a huge difference.

In other words, they’d have to be confident that they’d get another max deal after this one expires, when Paul will be 32 and Howard 31. That could be especially hard for Howard, considering that he had back surgery last year, but let’s assume for the sake of discussion that Mark Cuban convinces them the Mavs’ max commitment will extend after this contract.

The first-year value of their next deal in Dallas would be $22.24 million for Paul and $24.44 million for Howard.

Five-year value in Dallas for Paul: $102 million. In L.A.: $107.3 million.

Five-year value in Dallas for Howard: $112 million. In L.A.: $118 million.

Subtract the extra tax they’d pay in California and they’d actually make a few bucks more playing for the Mavs (or Rockets) than if they stayed in L.A.

[LonghornDub]

Dwight Howard ‏@DwightHoward 19h
say “eye yam stew peed” 4 times fast y’all gotta try this lol somebody jus got me

Future Maverick Dwight Howard, folks.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

Future Maverick Dwight Howard, folks.

Can we tell him that they moved the basement of the Alamo to Dallas and he can live in it if he wants if he signs with us?

[Bayliss]

Hopefully this turns out to be true:

Darren Wolfson ‏@DarrenWolfson

@Lonzo218 I've heard from multiple angles that Flip will target Mayo. How he'd fit into their equation, not sure. Need necessary cap space.

[mac222b]

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Hopefully this turns out to be true:

Looks to me like they have cap space even if Kirilenko opts in

[mac222b]

Forgot about Pek needing to be re-signed. My bad.
Mayo for Josh Howard anyone?

[pepe]

That is why I don't really understand the "they will be leaving money on the table" in the form of an extra guarantee year. The only way that it will happen is if they get hurt or drastically decline in production and the later is very difficult to happen for elite players unless an injury happen.

If realistically both of these players are almost guarantee another fat contract after this one....it makes sense to sign the 2nd contract the 4th year and not give themselves another extra year where production more than likely will decline.

[yahyes]

I'm talking shooting guard position.

Corey Brewer should comeback, if Mayo is trying to go the minny route. I would take Brewer back with Dirk for sure. Then maybe re-sign Anthony Morrow. This Morrow kid has the followthrough to be an nice shooter off the bench.

[JeffViggiano]

brewer???no thanks...he is only a good role player.we have carter in this position.

i saw Jack against the Spurs....mmmmhhhhh...i hope he will not be our starting PG.good sixth man for 4/20M.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

i saw Jack against the Spurs....mmmmhhhhh...i hope he will not be our starting PG.good sixth man for 4/20M.

6 games vs. Nugs: 19 PPG (53% FG), 7 APG, 5 RPG, 38 MPG
3 games vs. Spurs: 11 PPG (41% FG), 2 APG, 3 RPG, 33 MPG

San Antonio is definitely an opponent that our starting PG can't shrivel up against in the playoffs...

[Scott McGuire]

Originally Posted by Underdog

6 games vs. Nugs: 19 PPG (53% FG), 7 APG, 5 RPG, 38 MPG
3 games vs. Spurs: 11 PPG (41% FG), 2 APG, 3 RPG, 33 MPG

San Antonio is definitely an opponent that our starting PG can't shrivel up against in the playoffs...

I hope we can all take the perspective that he's not as good as he looked against Denver and not as bad as he has looked against the Spurs.

Jarrett is a valuable and steady borderline starting point guard without any glaring weakness. These games show you how he is a little limited if you are expecting him to be a 8mill+/year player. His best role is exactly what he's doing with Klay and Steph.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by JeffViggiano

i saw Jack against the Spurs....mmmmhhhhh...i hope he will not be our starting PG.good sixth man for 4/20M.

Jack was especially bad last night. His average level of play is quite a bit higher than that.

Although I'd certainly agree that I don't want him, ideally, as our starting point. But don't worry about that: CP3 is comin'.

[Melonhead]

Down by 4 with :25 to go, Derek fisher launches a 3 and bricks while KD is standing waiting for the ball. Game over. I love it. F you fisher.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Melonhead

Down by 4 with :25 to go, Derek fisher launches a 3 and bricks while KD is standing waiting for the ball. Game over. I love you Derek Fisher.

Fixed.

[dirt_dobber]

from Bill Simmons article: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...e-value-part-3

note on Chris Paul:
8. Chris Paul
Three reasons he's not higher …

A. He's about to get paid $80 million to 100 million for five years by somebody, whether it's the Clippers, Mavericks, Rockets or Lakers.

B. He's missing the lateral meniscus in his right knee, which is a fancy way of saying, "His right knee no longer has the cushion that knees usually need to do all the things that knees do." Read this 2011 ClipsNation piece for all the dirty details; it includes fancy diagrams and everything. In year four of his next contract, he'll be 32 years old, with 12 NBA seasons on his odometer … and odds are, he'll be battling problems with that knee and playing in some degree of pain. Has to be mentioned.

C. Look, I'm one of the preachers at the Church of Chris Paul. He's the best point guard I've ever watched on a regular basis. I can't blame him for being saddled with an overmatched coach and two years of pieces that never totally fit. He did everything he could. But his personality isn't always … um … favorable? He's demanding and occasionally condescending. He has no problem undressing a teammate verbally in front of 18,000 people. He's always gesturing and telling teammates where to go and what to do, almost like an abrasive wedding planner. He's always playing angry. There were times during these past two postseasons, especially when things went wrong, that CP's body language basically said, "These guys suck — I'm gonna have to do this myself."

There's a subtle balance between "I have to trust my teammates and build up their confidence" and "We're gonna lose unless I take over" — something that Isiah Thomas mastered completely during Detroit's five-year run from 1987 to 1991 — that Chris Paul never totally found in New Orleans or Los Angeles. He might be this generation's Oscar Robertson — someone so demanding/intimidating/relentless that teammates practically cower around him. Well, Oscar never made the Finals until much later in his career, when he crossed paths with Kareem in Milwaukee. Should we read anything into the fact that, in eight years, Chris Paul has never played in a conference finals? Or that he's 16-24 in the playoffs? It's a fair question, right? For the life of me, I can't understand why Paul and Blake Griffin don't get along, or why two straight Clipper postseasons COMPLETELY self-combusted. Even factoring in the Vinny Del Negro Effect, it's still a little strange — you shouldn't keep self-combusting when you have one of the league's best players.

And again, we're in the top 10 and picking nits. Chris Paul is fantastic. I voted for him fourth for MVP this season. In Dallas, with Rick Carlisle and Dirk and Cuban and a bunch of carefully selected role players flanking him? I'm sure he'd be even more fantastic. But in Los Angeles, with another inevitably shaky coach, the Lob City mind-set and a totally dysfunctional organization? I'm not quite as sure. Throw in the missing meniscus and the Clippers' tortured history and he's eighth. You know, unless he jumps to the Lakers (see footnote).

[sinsin]

"In Dallas, with Rick Carlisle and Dirk and Cuban and a bunch of carefully selected role players flanking him? I'm sure he'd be even more fantastic. But in Los Angeles, with another inevitably shaky coach, the Lob City mind-set and a totally dysfunctional organization? I'm not quite as sure."

I hope Paul will eventually think the same way : )

[spreedom]

Only problem is, if we keep Dirk and all of our cheap guys (and Marion), after we max out CP3 we barely have the cap space for those "carefully chosen role players," nor do we have much of a history of getting those types of players to come here at a discount.

If we trade Marion, different story. But I think we'd only go that route if we were going for broke and going for Dwight, too.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Only problem is, if we keep Dirk and all of our cheap guys (and Marion), after we max out CP3 we barely have the cap space for those "carefully chosen role players," nor do we have much of a history of getting those types of players to come here at a discount.

If we trade Marion, different story. But I think we'd only go that route if we were going for broke and going for Dwight, too.

I expect that if we had kept the championship team we would have had lots of candidates to come here at discounts. Vince carter is actually an example in some respects.

But with dirk/cp3 I think you would get a lot of candidates. Heck just cp3 would probably help a bunch.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Only problem is, if we keep Dirk and all of our cheap guys (and Marion), after we max out CP3 we barely have the cap space for those "carefully chosen role players," nor do we have much of a history of getting those types of players to come here at a discount.

If we trade Marion, different story. But I think we'd only go that route if we were going for broke and going for Dwight, too.

If (and its a huge if) we are able to land CP3, we'd have him, Carter, Marion, Dirk, Sarge, and Cunningham on contract. Mavs have ~$38 mil in salary next year assuming Marion doesn't opt out, a max Paul contract would likely count ~$20 mil against the cap. leaving us at ~$58 mil. This year's cap was $58 and the luxury cap was $70.


I have no idea how much Wright will go for, but he'll probably get a very big raise. Let's put him at ~$7 mil. If we wanted to retain OJ Mayo (or get a player who puts up similar numbers), it will cost around that as well cause us to exceed the tax cap. I believe we have bird rights on Wright so we could resign him and probably still have a mid level exception available if we pass on Mayo. Using MLE for a shooting guard next season could get you someone like Kyle Korver, Anthony Morrow, Tony Allen, Marco Belinelli, or Wesley Johnson. All that said, I'm all for exceed the tax cap if we can sign up some role players on 1 year deals in order to have some space in 2014, though we'll be limited in the available exceptions which forces the salary down for those role players. 2013 could be looking at something like this:

CP3, Draft Pick, Cunningham
MLE, Carter
Marion, Crowder
Dirk, Wright
Sarge, Vet, Vet

If we can package, Marion and Cunningham we'd probably be in even better shape.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by Dirk's Knee

I have no idea how much Wright will go for, but he'll probably get a very big raise. Let's put him at ~$7 mil. If we wanted to retain OJ Mayo (or get a player who puts up similar numbers), it will cost around that as well cause us to exceed the tax cap. I believe we have bird rights on Wright so we could resign him and probably still have a mid level exception available if we pass on Mayo. Using MLE for a shooting guard next season could get you someone like Kyle Korver, Anthony Morrow, Tony Allen, Marco Belinelli, or Wesley Johnson. All that said, I'm all for exceed the tax cap if we can sign up some role players on 1 year deals in order to have some space in 2014, though we'll be limited in the available exceptions which forces the salary down for those role players. 2013 could be looking at something like this:

CP3, Draft Pick, Cunningham
MLE, Carter
Marion, Crowder
Dirk, Wright
Sarge, Vet, Vet

If we can package, Marion and Cunningham we'd probably be in even better shape.

If we kept our guaranteed guys and added CP3 and Wright, we'd likely be above the apron after signing our rookies. Then, we'd have only the mini-MLE. I'm guessing Morrow and Wes will be available for that price (in fact, a price much lower than that) but Tony Allen and Kyle Korver are going to be getting salaries close to or above the $5.35M MLE.

That said, I would rather sign Tony Allen at the full MLE than bringing back Wright.

[Dirk's Knee]

Originally Posted by spreedom

If we kept our guaranteed guys and added CP3 and Wright, we'd likely be above the apron after signing our rookies. Then, we'd have only the mini-MLE. I'm guessing Morrow and Wes will be available for that price (in fact, a price much lower than that) but Tony Allen and Kyle Korver are going to be getting salaries close to or above the $5.35M MLE.

That said, I would rather sign Tony Allen at the full MLE than bringing back Wright.

You think Wright is going for more than $7 mil? And we'll likely only be adding 1 rookie this year. Our second round is a pretty late pick. My guess is we give that pick away. Unless we luck out and get higher than our projected position, the rookie scale will be around $1.6 for the 13th pick. We of course will likely pay the 120% max which will be ~$2 mil. Even if Wright goes for ~$10, that would be ~$12 mill and the MLE would still put use under the apron. With CP and Dirk, you might be able to convince a couple vets to sign cheap and split that MLE between them. Of course, this is under the rather far fetched assumption that CP will be eating up ~$20 mil in salary.

[OneLove22]

What do people think about Seth Curry in the draft?

[sefant77]

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...For-Josh-Smith

Marion and the lottery pick and same day sign Dwight and Morrow.

[MavsFTR]

What does that link have to do with Marion?

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by MavsFTR

What does that link have to do with Marion?

Marion would presumably be a salary match for Josh Smith in a S&T deal.