Jason Kidd for Baron Davis and Marcus Camby? - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

alby · 02-07-2009, 10:59 PM

Fine then. Baron and Kaman =p

tybrock · 02-07-2009, 11:43 PM

I would rather have Kaman. Clippers would save more money if they gave us him instead.

darkwitzki · 02-08-2009, 12:17 AM

Kidd for Shaq!

Tokey41 · 02-08-2009, 12:42 AM

I think they just want Camby to expire, a trade for Kidd, however, giives them an even larger expiring contract.

But if they were more inclined to trade Kaman (for whatever reason) this trade looks even better.

Kidd for Shaq would be okay... but two starters are better than one.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-08-2009, 12:51 AM

I dont understand why the Suns would do Kidd for Shaq? Then they have Kidd and Nash and no center? WTF?

dude1394 · 02-08-2009, 02:53 AM

As much risk as this has...I'm starting to lean towards it big time(especially if Kaman, but enen with camby). Although Bdiddy can be a head case...he's a creating guard during winning time and camby gives us plenty of rebounding and defense as well as some offense.

It would change the team quite a bit...and as I see it right now...it's the most realistic and drastic trade that I've seen. It would change the dynamic of the team immediately and I believe would put us in a position to make some noise this year.

Underdog · 02-08-2009, 03:06 AM

I know a lot of people were hacked-off about the Kidd/Harris trade, but would anyone have complained if we traded Devin Harris for Baron Davis? I doubt it...

Throw in either Camby or (more likely) Kaman and this deal becomes a no-brainer:

Baron/JJB
JET/Wright
Josh/George
Dirk/Bass
Kaman/Damp

That looks a lot better than the lineup we're currently rolling with (although I still like DLord's Howard/Stack for Shaq/Barnes idea best...)

dalger · 02-08-2009, 04:55 AM

I would actually prefer Kaman over Camby. Camby has been fantastic this season, but he turns 35 in March and won't be able to play at his current level for much longer. With Kaman, you get one of the five best centers in the league for years to come.

Apparently, Kaman "only" makes an average of $10.5 million a year until 2012. So he's not only young, his contract is also very reasonable. We were willing to pay Diop $32.4 million until 2013 or roughly $6.5 million per year for giving us 3 points and 5 rebounds per night, so a deal including Kaman would be a terrific development for us on that position.

I absolutely love Jason Kidd as a Mav and think that he's extremely underappreciated outside of Dallas simply due to his age, but the idea of a rejuvenated Baron Davis alongside Chris Kaman is too good to not realize it. Like Underdog mentioned, who wouldn't have done a Davis/Kaman for Harris deal 12 months ago?

I would even prefer a Davis/Kaman combo over Shaq/Barnes. By trading the last two for Howard and Stack, we would improve the 5 significantly until 2010, but we would also get less production on the SF position. I think, quality-wise, that a motivated Davis is closer to Kidd than Barnes is to Howard, so with Kaman and Davis we would benefit from the increased production on the center position without really giving up a lot on the other position. Plus, we wouldn't have to search for a new center when Shaq's contract is over in 2010.

A line-up of Kaman, Dirk, Josh, JET, and Davis could be fighting for a title, or at least come close to it, even beyond the 2010 season. In addition, contrary to the Shaq/Barnes deal, we would still have Stack's contract to use and could try to get something for Damp and his big $12 million contract next February as he will basically be a free agent after next season.

Still, I have no idea how likely any of these deals are.

Dirkgreatness · 02-08-2009, 04:56 AM

Wow, i just looked up Baron's stats for this season and..... he really really sucks this year.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-08-2009, 05:46 AM

We'd be banking on the fact that he's playing unmotivated for a sorry team and that would change on our team, hoping that he's able to turn the switch on as he pleases which is no guarentee.

Rogue · 02-08-2009, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by particleman

Did anyone read this by Chris Broussard on ESPN? It's part of his "Five Fixes for the Clippers" article, which is an insider thing so I didn't get to read all of it, but this blurb was in today's Daily Dime:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...ge=dime-090203 (Box 8)

Obviously it's pure speculation and not any actual rumors, but I was curious as to what you guys think about this trade.

thanks, but I don't think this trade will make our beloved team any better.

It's very true we have a big problem at C but I don't think Camby is the guy that can help us solve it. Dampier is a crap on offensive end but he is still pretty good at defensive end, at lease he can sometimes plays like the nightmire to those soft center like yao and gasol. Camby is a little bit better deffensively than dampier but not a bit at offense. Kidd's contract is gonna expire this season so that it's definitely more attractive to those rebuilding teams than a hopeless sh@tty team like clippers. I would like to talk with clippers if they bring Kaman into negotiation to replace camby, or add Gordon as fillers into BD and camby. In a word, I wouldn't give up Kidd for camby and Bdavis. taking bdavis is a gamble you know, we have to ask for kaman or gordon as insurance.

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-08-2009, 07:19 AM

Let's look at the last 5 years offensive PPG Damp vs Camby

Damp
04-05 DAL 9.2
05-06 DAL 5.7
06-07 DAL 7.1
07-08 DAL 6.1
08-09 DAL 5.4

Camby
04-05 DEN 10.3
05-06 DEN 12.8
06-07 DEN 11.2
07-08 DEN 9.1
08-09 LAC 11.7

Not to mention he hasn't had a pass first pg like Jason Kidd so you might expect his ppg to go up slightly. Add to that his D is better. We can even take it a step further and compare Kamans

Kaman
04-05 LAC 9.1
05-06 LAC 11.9
06-07 LAC 10.1
07-08 LAC 15.7
08-09 LAC 13.9

They're really not THAT much greater than Camby. Not to mention Kaman is a much worse defender

dalger · 02-08-2009, 09:50 AM

The "problem" is that the whole deal is based around the idea (or necessity) to trade Kidd, so neither Camby nor Kaman will have the pleasure of being assisted by him and increase their numbers as a result of playing with Kidd. Instead, they would still have to live with Davis' passes, assuming that he's the other piece in the trade.

I agree that Camby is a better defender than Kaman and not significantly worse on offense. But Camby is almost 35 and won't be able to play on his current level for much longer, whereas Kaman is young, improving and overall among the best centers in the league. Additionally, his contract runs until 2012 and is "only" worth about $10 million per year which isn't a lot for a center of his caliber. We wouldn't have to worry about this crucial position for a long time.

Underdog · 02-08-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalger

The "problem" is that the whole deal is based around the idea (or necessity) to trade Kidd, so neither Camby nor Kaman will have the pleasure of being assisted by him and increase their numbers as a result of playing with Kidd. Instead, they would still have to live with Davis' passes, assuming that he's the other piece in the trade.

Jason Kidd: APG - 8.3 / PPG - 8.8

Baron Davis: APG - 7.8 / PPG - 15.9

0.5 less APG in exchange for 7 more PPG is a sacrifice I'd readily make (and these numbers are current, not career - we all know Baron is having an "off" season...)

jthig32 · 02-08-2009, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Jason Kidd: APG - 8.3 / PPG - 8.8

Baron Davis: APG - 7.8 / PPG - 15.9

0.5 less APG in exchange for 7 more PPG is a sacrifice I'd readily make (and these numbers are current, not career - we all know Baron is having an "off" season...)

You're making the mistake of discounting defense and intangibles. Jason Kidd is still flat out a better player than Davis.

And I know I've been harping on this a lot lately, but don't discount what losing Kidd does to Jet. You want to acquire Davis and play Jet alongside him for extended minutes? You're going to get destroyed defensively.

I would still probably do the trade if it were Davis and Camby, because Camby can make up for a lot of defensive shortcomings.

But I wouldn't do it for Davis and Kaman. That is one horrible defensive lineup.

dude1394 · 02-08-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You're making the mistake of discounting defense and intangibles. Jason Kidd is still flat out a better player than Davis.

And I know I've been harping on this a lot lately, but don't discount what losing Kidd does to Jet. You want to acquire Davis and play Jet alongside him for extended minutes? You're going to get destroyed defensively.

I would still probably do the trade if it were Davis and Camby, because Camby can make up for a lot of defensive shortcomings.

But I wouldn't do it for Davis and Kaman. That is one horrible defensive lineup.

I think the one good thing about davis is that he would still be able to play the big 2's like jkiddo does and leave jet with the 1's. I agree he's not nearly the defender that jkiddo is but I don't think jet would get over-exposed because of his size.

mac222b · 02-09-2009, 12:34 AM

In a playoff series Baron is the better player. He's a threat to score every time down and can takeover a game singlehandedly.

jthig32 · 02-09-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mac222b

In a playoff series Baron is the better player. He's a threat to score every time down and can takeover a game singlehandedly.

Let's tap the breaks.

MX425 · 02-09-2009, 10:44 AM

I don't disagree Kidd brings intangibles and has singlehandly won us games this year, although often witha smart steal, or pass, not a clutch basket. However, Kidd can walk at the end of this year. Than what? His fam still lives in the NJ area. If he really wants his ring he could join any number of teams like Lakers, Cavs or C's for a mid level and play with a team already over the hump. I think move him and bring back something for the future or the Harris trade is totally in vein.

Move Kidd for Baron and Kaman. We know Kaman and Drik play well together as evidenced in the olympic qualifying. Use Stack to the Suns with another piece for Richardson. Start Davis, J-Rich, Howard, Dirk, Kaman. Terry, Bass, Wright and Damp from the bench.

Sportstudi · 02-10-2009, 04:51 PM

On spurstalk a Dallas-fan (it wasn't me, but I'm also there from time to time to defend our team against trolls) just posted that the mavs declined Kidd for Davis/Kaman on ESPN. Did anyone see it?

Well, IMO it has two sides. On the one hand, we could get a younger point guard and finally someone for the low post (someone we didn't have since Tarpley). But on the other hand, Kidd's contract is expiring (Davis & Kaman have both huge contracts until 2012), Davis simply sucks this year (probably a motivation problem as well; he tought that Brand would re-sign) and Kaman is unfortunately injury prone. Thus I'm not that angry right now if it's true. It's not about the players, I simply don't like their contracts and their injury history. But of course, a team with Baron, Terry, Dirk, Howard and Kaman would be really nice, no doubt about that. I don't know, maybe Cubes is still angry about Davis due to the loss in 2007...

DirkFTW · 02-10-2009, 04:56 PM

If this is true...

Dtownsfinest · 02-10-2009, 06:01 PM

What team is dumb enough to give up Baron and Kaman for Kidd? And what team is dumb enough to actually decline the trade? I don't believe it. I hope its not true anyway.

Sportstudi · 02-10-2009, 06:07 PM

To cite one post of the Mavs-fan who brought it up: "They talked about it on espn news for 3-4 minutes. Cuban immediately declined, there isn't much story there"

Now you can think about it...

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-10-2009, 06:26 PM

Was this talked about on ESPN or not? Surely someone here watches ESPN 24/7 and knows.

alby · 02-10-2009, 06:30 PM

I highly doubt that this is true.

toby451 · 02-10-2009, 06:35 PM

On the Staying or Going session on EPSN about 5 minutes ago, Rick Bucher said the clippers offered Baron back to GSW for Mags.

They also offered Kamen + Baron to Dallas for Jkidd, but no one wants to take back that contract, is what they were saying.

Hopefully Dallas is going to take this deal, but are just waiting to see if the Clippers are going to fold and offer a 1st rounder as well. (Maybe Camby instead? who knows.)

Sportstudi · 02-10-2009, 06:35 PM

Probably it isn't true. Next citation (same Dallas-guy):

"Well guys looks as if I have been unintentionally trolling. I've been watching espn news for over an hour and have yet to see them mention this news again. Although there is a Kidd for Davis/Camby rumor on another board.

The funny thing is me and a friend both saw it, looked at eachother and said what a dumbass."

jthig32 · 02-10-2009, 07:20 PM

You guys realize Baron Davis has averaged 65 games a season since his first three years in the league, and is going to be making 15mil/season until he's 36.....right?

And you realize he has a horrible attitude, right? He got benched for the second half of the Warriors' most important game last season.

Sorry. He's on the decline, he has a poor work ethic and questionable attitude. And he's going to be making a lot of money for the next 6 years.

Tying yourself to that kind of player is anything but a no brainer.

MaVs 41 BaLler · 02-10-2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You guys realize Baron Davis has averaged 65 games a season since his first three years in the league, and is going to be making 15mil/season until he's 36.....right?

And you realize he has a horrible attitude, right? He got benched for the second half of the Warriors' most important game last season.

Sorry. He's on the decline, he has a poor work ethic and questionable attitude. And he's going to be making a lot of money for the next 6 years.

Tying yourself to that kind of player is anything but a no brainer.

which means you will end up with this.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7Od4H9uIJ8

Tokey41 · 02-10-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

You guys realize Baron Davis has averaged 65 games a season since his first three years in the league, and is going to be making 15mil/season until he's 36.....right?

And you realize he has a horrible attitude, right? He got benched for the second half of the Warriors' most important game last season.

Sorry. He's on the decline, he has a poor work ethic and questionable attitude. And he's going to be making a lot of money for the next 6 years.

Tying yourself to that kind of player is anything but a no brainer.

What's the point of keeping Kidd if we're not going to win a championship? You NEED to mix things up, or else Cuban might as well blow the whole damn thing up. His pockets are deep enough for Davis, and besides that, the real prize of the deal is Kaman (or Camby).

His contract may be horrible, but if he was motivated to win a ring (and i'd like to think all NBA players want to win at least one...), playing fourth fiddle to Dirk, Howard, and Kaman doesn't seem like such a bad role for him. Would he be an overpriced fourth option? Hell yeah, but what's the point of bragging about an owner with deep pockets if he's not going to use them?

mvpben23 · 02-10-2009, 09:54 PM

This trade will not happen because first off Dallas doesn't want to have Bdiddy and 2nd Marcus Camby will probably get injured and Kidd will shine in LAC.

Underdog · 02-10-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvpben23

This trade will not happen because first off Dallas doesn't want to have Bdiddy and 2nd Marcus Camby will probably get injured and Kidd will shine in LAC.

4rlz?

MaVs 41 BaLler · 02-10-2009, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

4rlz?

CORRECTION: 4rLz?

nikeball · 02-10-2009, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

4rlz?

But yes, I saw it on ESPN coast to coast. Cubes turned it down because he wanted cap space for 2010.

Thomas86 · 02-10-2009, 10:54 PM

Smart move by Cuban to turn the deal down, People on here want to complain about Beno's contract when Davis and Kamen contracts are even worse plus both those guys are injury prone incase anybodys cares, what's happens when 2010 comes around and Lebron and Wade comes knocking on our door?...yea! smart move by Cuban.

nikeball · 02-10-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas86

Smart move by Cuban to turn the deal down, People on here want to complain about Beno's contract when Davis and Kamen contracts are even worse plus both those guys are injury prone incase anybodys cares, what's happens when 2010 comes around and Lebron and Wade comes knocking on our door?...yea! smart move by Cuban.

They are complaining about Beno's contract because he is a scrub that makes 7 million per year.

Kaman and Bdiddy's contracts are easier to swallow.

frankvizza · 02-10-2009, 11:48 PM

its on the espn 103 3. post game show ,, it says the clippers contacted cubes for the deal and it was refused ,,

frankvizza · 02-10-2009, 11:49 PM

can't we do a stack and howard ,and bass for them guys will it work?

MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs · 02-11-2009, 12:02 AM

Lebron and Wade are not coming through that door anyway, maybe if anyone Bosh but some people don't even feel he's a good fit here with Dirk. Kidd can walk after this season and yet we'll still be over the cap, so we can lose him and not be able to gain anyone good back in return to replace him. Can't see how this is a smart move. In fact this is the type of ballsy move that our FO needed to try as we're going nowhere as is. Do you really think we're going to win a championship with this team? It would be one of those N.C. State winning the National Championship once in a lifetime type upsets.

dayman · 02-11-2009, 12:04 AM

i think we should wait it out, could we really afford to mix up our chemistry right now a 1/2 game outta 4th....to much of a risk if you ask me. I do think we should definitely go after a good 2 guard before the deadline.....salmons maybe