Offseason 2010 Thread

[BGMaverick9]

It was Cowherd who mentioned Bosh...it makes sense for both sides really with a S&T once they figured out the specifics. The believe is that Andrea Bargnani needs a more traditional/physical big man to compliment him and Bosh isn't that piece. Bosh wants to go to the Lakers and they'd gladly take him in.

[mkat]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

The believe is that Andrea Bargnani needs a more traditional/physical big man to compliment him and Bosh isn't that piece.

good luck finding a good traditional big man.

[grndmstr_c]

Originally Posted by mkat

good luck finding a good traditional big man.

The Raps might get all the luck they need from Bosh picking the Lakers as his preferred destination - if that's the way things end up shaking out - because Bynum would seem to be the obvious S&T bait from the Lakers' end.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

The Raps might get all the luck they need from Bosh picking the Lakers as his preferred destination - if that's the way things end up shaking out - because Bynum would seem to be the obvious S&T bait from the Lakers' end.

...and if the Lakers say FU, instead wanting to unload Fisher, Odom....what will Stern do? "As the NBA Turns." Tune in next time.....

[sefant77]

I read 2013, so 3 years Newark.

[EricaLubarsky]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I read 2013, so 3 years Newark.

a central park, Newark? I'm sorry if you heard Central Park, "New York"

[mkat]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

a central park, Newark? I'm sorry if you heard Central Park, "New York"

well you're at a central park...in Newark...if i had told you it was a central park in Newark you wouldn't have done the gig!

yes we would have!

[bobatundi]

Originally Posted by sefant77

I read 2013, so 3 years Newark.

They're "hoping" for 2012, with 2013 a realistic possibility.

The arena in Newark is only two years old, and it is supposedly awesome (haven't been yet). Plus, it's pretty darn easy to get to from NY (ok, not as easy as the Garden, but what is).

I just think the Nets have a better plan for rebuilding--develop young talent, create cap space and use it wisely, and accumulate draft picks. The Knicks, on the other hand--give away draft picks to create cap space, blow it all on two players--with the hopes that those two players are who they want them to be.

Let's say you are LeBron, and you really care about championships. Do you choose the Knicks--where you can probably choose your own sidekick, but then you and, let's say Bosh for argument's sake, are playing alongside Wilson Chander, Eddy Curry, and Danilo Gallinari, with no draft picks for the next three years to get anyone else--or, do you choose to play with Devin Harris, whoever the #3 pick is this year, Brook Lopez, a bunch of young wings, #27, #31, and probably one more (non-max-level) free agent this year, plus have several first rounders the next few seasons to build with or use in trades? It's clear where the upside is. I still think the Knicks are gonna get spurned by the top few guys, and end up maxing out Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer...and thus remaining mediocre for the next five years or more.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by bobatundi

They're "hoping" for 2012, with 2013 a realistic possibility.

The arena in Newark is only two years old, and it is supposedly awesome (haven't been yet). Plus, it's pretty darn easy to get to from NY (ok, not as easy as the Garden, but what is).

I just think the Nets have a better plan for rebuilding--develop young talent, create cap space and use it wisely, and accumulate draft picks. The Knicks, on the other hand--give away draft picks to create cap space, blow it all on two players--with the hopes that those two players are who they want them to be.

Let's say you are LeBron, and you really care about championships. Do you choose the Knicks--where you can probably choose your own sidekick, but then you and, let's say Bosh for argument's sake, are playing alongside Wilson Chander, Eddy Curry, and Danilo Gallinari, with no draft picks for the next three years to get anyone else--or, do you choose to play with Devin Harris, whoever the #3 pick is this year, Brook Lopez, a bunch of young wings, #27, #31, and probably one more (non-max-level) free agent this year, plus have several first rounders the next few seasons to build with or use in trades? It's clear where the upside is. I still think the Knicks are gonna get spurned by the top few guys, and end up maxing out Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer...and thus remaining mediocre for the next five years or more.

The Nets have a lot of things going for them, yes. Still, I will be shocked- I mean absolutely shocked if Lebron chooses the Nets. I just don't see it happening. In terms of winning titles, the Nets are really no less of a gamble than New York (or at least not much of one.) New York at least has the massive prestige factor going for it. The Nets don't. Not by a long shot. I don't care where they're moving to, or how cool their new owner is. The Brooklyn Nets will never have the marquee value that the Knicks have.

And I don't care how new the arena is; there's no friggin way Lebron wants to spend the next two years of the prime of his career in Newark.

I just don't see it happening.

[mac222b]

see i think when push comes to shove, with the new CBA looming, ain't no way any of these max salary guys going to forfeit 30 million in guaranteed $. so can the NETs sign and trade for both Bosh and Bron? can the Knicks or Bulls? what would be left over if they did? i just don't see any package deals unless it involves a lesser star like Joe Johnson, Boozer, Stoudemire. that helps the Mavs, at least prospectively.

[sefant77]

Yes, Nets are so much better than the Knicks.

Chandler/Gali vs Lee/CDR/Williams/Yi
+Harris
+Lopez (the big center)
+#3
+ future picks

But the Knicks wont max out 2 players like JJ/Boozer/Lee. They want 2 of the top free agents and if they miss out on James this year they will keep one cap slop for Anthony 2011 (since Denver is on the way to be done agewise). What they need is to dump Curry on 1st july for Okafor. Then they have a shot to sign James (and a PF).

Not a bad place, 3 years old: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prudential_Center

The Nets would probably even pay James the monthly costs for a private chopper

[sefant77]

Well, with James + Bosh/Lee/Boozer/Amare Nets win easily 55-60+ games next season and thats probably history for the biggest turnaround in history...

And we know James loves making history. I wouldnt be shocked. I would be shocked if he chooses the Knicks over the Nets.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Well, with James + Bosh/Lee/Boozer/Amare win easily 55-60+ games next season and thats probably history for the biggest turnaround in history...

And we know James loves making history. I wouldnt be shocked. I would be shocked if he chooses the Knicks over the Nets.

Frankly I'd be shocked if he chose either of them, but more so if he chooses the Nets.

[Kidd Karma]

Thorn and the Russian Cuban, is a huge threat to the Knicks pull. Knicks got the history, but the Nets have the stability in Thorn and now the $$ in the new owner.

[mcsluggo]

Lebron is going to be a giant weiner just like every other giant weiner before him... and figure out a way to go to the Lakers.

Lakers management will then once again be coo-ed and fawned over as geniuses for "getting it to happen"... ignoring the fact that it is the supid "I wanna be a hollywood starlet" players that push themselves there everytime.

I hate the Lakers with every fiber of my being, and hope that they lose this series in 4 games with a combined 100 point differential.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Lebron is going to be a giant weiner just like every other giant weiner before him... and figure out a way to go to the Lakers.

Lakers management will then once again be coo-ed and fawned over as geniuses for "getting it to happen"... ignoring the fact that it is the supid "I wanna be a hollywood starlet" players that push themselves there everytime.

I hate the Lakers with every fiber of my being, and hope that they lose this series in 4 games with a combined 100 point differential.

I know exactly what you mean. It really is ridiculous how the league seems to just give them star players. Or rather, players find a way to force their teams to give them to the Lakers.

Kobe is the perfect example. He's a Laker because he refused to play for the Charlotte Hornets. So the Lakers end up getting one of the top 5 players of all-time, and the Hornets get Vlade.

All that being said, Lebron is not going to the Lakers (although apparently Bosh might be.)

[sefant77]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

I know exactly what you mean. It really is ridiculous how the league seems to just give them star players. Or rather, players find a way to force their teams to give them to the Lakers.

Kobe is the perfect example. He's a Laker because he refused to play for the Charlotte Hornets. So the Lakers end up getting one of the top 5 players of all-time, and the Hornets get Vlade.

All that being said, Lebron is not going to the Lakers (although apparently Bosh might be.)

July 1st: Cavs and Mavs announce they will work out a s&t James-Butler+x because James will leave the Cavs for sure

July 2nd: Raptors and Lakers announce they will S&T Bosh and Bynum.

Playoffs 2010-2015: Lakers beating the Mavs in 7 games

[Thomas86]

Originally Posted by sefant77

July 1st: Cavs and Mavs announce they will work out a s&t James-Butler+x because James will leave the Cavs for sure

July 2nd: Raptors and Lakers announce they will S&T Bosh and Bynum.

Playoffs 2010-2015: Lakers beating the Mavs in 7 games

Fixed*

July 2nd: Stern and Lakers announce they will S&T Bosh and Bynum.

[KINGBEEF]

Originally Posted by mcsluggo

Lebron is going to be a giant weiner just like every other giant weiner before him... and figure out a way to go to the Lakers.

Lakers management will then once again be coo-ed and fawned over as geniuses for "getting it to happen"... ignoring the fact that it is the supid "I wanna be a hollywood starlet" players that push themselves there everytime.

I hate the Lakers with every fiber of my being, and hope that they lose this series in 4 games with a combined 100 point differential.

why would anyone want to go to the Lakers anyways. The world knows that that's Kobe's team. And if he feels threatened at all he'll find a way to get rid of you. At least here in Dallas Dirk is willing to put his emotions aside. I'm not complaining about your quote, i'm just adding fuel to it.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by KINGBEEF

why would anyone want to go to the Lakers anyways. The world knows that that's Kobe's team. And if he feels threatened at all he'll find a way to get rid of you. At least here in Dallas Dirk is willing to put his emotions aside. I'm not complaining about your quote, i'm just adding fuel to it.

Bosh did mention some time last season that he can carry a team.

[Rick41]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Bosh did mention some time last season that he can carry a team.

I'd like to see him prove it though.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by Rick41

I'd like to see him prove it though.

Well we've already gotten a preview with Toronto.

[mac222b]

i still think the teams have more leverage than anyone thinks- if they're smart. if LeBron wants a sign and trade to the Nets you accept nothing less than the #3 pick and salary to make the trade work. do the Nets even have enough salary to make a sign and trade work? Devin Harris? but Devin Harris doesn't get it done unless you want to remain mediocre for the next few years. to win in the NBA you've got to have stars and they're most likely to come in the top 3 picks for teams like Cleveland. i'll be extremely surprised if Bron, Bosh or Wade signs for less the max years/$. these guys have to work w/ their teams in sign and trades. i hate to sound like a broken record but i feel like everyone is underestimating the amount of leverage these teams have if they're smart. These GM's shouldn't be taking back the Dengs, Devin Harris, and Bynums(damaged goods) of the world for superstars. they have to play hardball.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by mac222b

i still think the teams have more leverage than anyone thinks- if they're smart. if LeBron wants a sign and trade to the Nets you accept nothing less than the #3 pick and salary to make the trade work. do the Nets even have enough salary to make a sign and trade work? Devin Harris? but Devin Harris doesn't get it done unless you want to remain mediocre for the next few years. to win in the NBA you've got to have stars and they're most likely to come in the top 3 picks for teams like Cleveland. i'll be extremely surprised if Bron, Bosh or Wade signs for less the max years/$. these guys have to work w/ their teams in sign and trades. i hate to sound like a broken record but i feel like everyone is underestimating the amount of leverage these teams have if they're smart. These GM's shouldn't be taking back the Dengs, Devin Harris, and Bynums(damaged goods) of the world for superstars. they have to play hardball.

Nets do not need the salary when they have the cap space. They can even take him in at Cleveland's max for essentially nothing, Cleveland on the other hand would get a trade exception based on the first year salary of Lebron's deal.

When you choose not to deal the player, especially of Lebron's caliber, you as a team and individual front office person get a big fat X when agents deal with you. Agents will go for the jugular, they will cause havoc to get their player out of town. On the other hand some agents who have good relationship with management, will tell their client to stuff it and play out the string.

True when you're looking at maxing deals and the teams having leverage, you key in on Lebron signing this shorter deal years ago, leading this group, of Wade and Bosh to sign essentially the same deal in close watch of the looming expiring CBA. That was the major reason why Lebron chose to sign a 3 year deal rather than maxing out at the 6. Dooming ideas such as annual raises dropping 2-3 percent, a cap on max years from 6 to 5 or 4. With that in mind and being locked in to essentially a contract with 2 years to run, he loses earning power when he reups his new deal. It was a smart move by Lebron at the time, but with that move, if you read between the lines, lebron's setting himself up to fully maximize his earning power on this new deal....which means Cleveland holds ALL the cards at this point. Does Lebron have the fortitude to dare Cleveland? I mean years ago KMart was a FA, Denver had cap space and maxed out their offer, there was a huge upfront signing bonus in Denver's offer. KMart was going to sign if NJ didn't match that upfront bonus, NJ did not match and instead signed and traded him at the full max that NJ could offer.

[dude1394]

It's a bad move when it doesn't work. But the celts for example mortgaged their future for now and it DID work. Sounds a little like monday-morning qbing.

[Kidd Karma]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's a bad move when it doesn't work. But the celts for example mortgaged their future for now and it DID work. Sounds a little like monday-morning qbing.

Fishy as it was when they got KG, was it old Celtic buddies giving in to each other?

Then a middle of the road Laker team some how steals Pau Gasol from old Jerry West, former Laker......funny how life revolves around a circle. So where's Mark Aguirre, Blackman, or Harper.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Kidd Karma

Fishy as it was when they got KG, was it old Celtic buddies giving in to each other?

Then a middle of the road Laker team some how steals Pau Gasol from old Jerry West, former Laker......funny how life revolves around a circle. So where's Mark Aguirre, Blackman, or Harper.

I don't think the Celts getting KG was fishy at all, at least not nearly so much as the Lakers getting Gasol. The Wolves actually got a very good deal for KG.

[wilmtalk]

Originally Posted by dude1394

It's a bad move when it doesn't work. But the celts for example mortgaged their future for now and it DID work. Sounds a little like monday-morning qbing.

You are incorrect about the Celts. I would refer you to CLUTCH # 41'S post ( #497). They have young players who play major roles which the Mavs don't. They are also solid at every position which the mavs are not.

As for being a monday morning QB while I have not posted a lot on this site what I did post was always in line with my posts now. I was never that happy with the Harris/Kidd trade although I understand why it was done. And it seemed to make sense. I wanted to trade Howard for Kidd. It would have allowed us to retain Harris who would have paired with Kidd and each could have mitigated each others weakness's. It could have been a straight up trade with us even getting a draft pick because Harris had higher trade value then. I also was not happy with the three year contract afforded Kidd for the reasons that have become more obvious to more of you and validated by the results this year.

I believed then that Dirks window was larger than Kidds and that the plan should have been geared to that four or five year window rather than the two year window of Kidds. It should never have been building a team that could play with Kidd but those that would complement Dirk. That would have allowed us to strenthen the weakness's in our roster. We were fortunate in the Butler and Haywood aquisitions but it didn't entirely eliminate the weakness's that eventually bit us in our collective rears.

RC is the main problem because he is not a coach who likes to develop players but utilizes veterans because they help to hide his own deficiancys. While not the only example the most recent one was his not use and lack of development of Roddy. I mean how hard is it to teach a player to defend a pick and roll. He is also too methodical and doesn't have the ability to forsee and plan for potential problems. As you point out it is not that hard to see problems once they hit us in the face but it is not as easy to see them before they happen. Many of you posters just like RC cant seem to see farther than the noses on your face. Unfortunately RC's shortcomings effect the planning and future of the team while all that we posters effect is only retorical.

[clutch#41]

Originally Posted by wilmtalk

You are incorrect about the Celts. I would refer you to CLUTCH # 41'S post ( #497). They have young players who play major roles which the Mavs don't. They are also solid at every position which the mavs are not.

As for being a monday morning QB while I have not posted a lot on this site what I did post was always in line with my posts now. I was never that happy with the Harris/Kidd trade although I understand why it was done. And it seemed to make sense. I wanted to trade Howard for Kidd. It would have allowed us to retain Harris who would have paired with Kidd and each could have mitigated each others weakness's. It could have been a straight up trade with us even getting a draft pick because Harris had higher trade value then. I also was not happy with the three year contract afforded Kidd for the reasons that have become more obvious to more of you and validated by the results this year.

I believed then that Dirks window was larger than Kidds and that the plan should have been geared to that four or five year window rather than the two year window of Kidds. It should never have been building a team that could play with Kidd but those that would complement Dirk. That would have allowed us to strenthen the weakness's in our roster. We were fortunate in the Butler and Haywood aquisitions but it didn't entirely eliminate the weakness's that eventually bit us in our collective rears.

RC is the main problem because he is not a coach who likes to develop players but utilizes veterans because they help to hide his own deficiancys. While not the only example the most recent one was his not use and lack of development of Roddy. I mean how hard is it to teach a player to defend a pick and roll. He is also too methodical and doesn't have the ability to forsee and plan for potential problems. As you point out it is not that hard to see problems once they hit us in the face but it is not as easy to see them before they happen. Many of you posters just like RC cant seem to see farther than the noses on your face. Unfortunately RC's shortcomings effect the planning and future of the team while all that we posters effect is only retorical.

If I Could Give You a Green Box I Would.lol. I agree with you on everything here. good post.

[bernardos70]

Here's the most useless post of this thread. I'm tired of theorizing and the LBJ BS, I'll get back to this when the World Cup ends.

I've read quite a few pages on this thread and I'm ready to not stress myself over this for even a second more.

Sincerely
Bernardo

[bernardos70]

......to mediocrity

[sefant77]

July 3rd: Lakers trade L. Walton, S. Vujacic and A.Morrison for Gilbert Arenas

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by sefant77

July 3rd: Lakers trade L. Walton, S. Vujacic and A.Morrison for Gilbert Arenas

To combat this new disadvantage, Stern allows the Lakers to play with 6 men.

[tcat075]

July 4th: Stern looks in the official NBA rulebook for the first time since 1889, and sees that there is a violation called the "travel". But, since his head referees assure him that not once has any of their crew seen a player commit this violation, he removes it from the books because it is simply a waste of space.

To replace it, he puts in place the "Dwyane Wade" rule, where officials are allowed to give him free throws whenever they wish...even during timeouts. Merely minutes after this press release, Nick Collison, Raja Bell, and Drew Gooden foul out. Hundreds more foul outs are expected by the time opening day roles around.

[Eman]

Depends on what we trade dirk for........Draft picks, young up and coming stars? We'd lose a lot more game but have several young players picks hopefully and Roddy would get 40 minutes a night!

[tcat075]

If Dirk straight leaves, we're screwed.

Sign and trade is another story, but right now its completely possible for Dirk to simply leave through free agency without us getting anything. I don't think its likely that Dirk leaves, and I think its even more unlikely for Dirk to leave us without anything, but its possible.

[DirkFTW]

Done and done. Now back to freaking out about Dirk.

[Kidd Karma]

Just read a bit that Lebron and Nike will be working together on his free agent tour. Lebron's visiting the Knicks, Nets and then the Bulls. Nike's going to come out with a shoe listing the date of each team's visit.........

[grndmstr_c]

Cuban can all but ensure that losing Dirk in a S&T would be the worst-case scenario by offering him more money than another team can. That'd still suck, but Dirk (just like everybody else), is extraordinarily unlikely to leave the Mavs for less money than what he could get by re-signing.

[SMC0007]

Theres a horse in the hospital