2014 Offseason Thread

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Wang Zhi Zhi

FWIW, this is from the Simmons column today on Melo (which has some GREAT Dirk stuff, btw), on Raymond Felton:

"the NBA’s worst starting point guard . . . a complete zero on both ends".

is he wrong?

I expect he is way over the top on this. Sounds like east coast asshattery to me.

[spreedom]

Just quickly thinking out loud... for those who are in favor of adding Lance Stephenson, would you be okay with a straight Monta-for-Lance trade? At this point I think that's the only kind of trade that the Pacers would take. I personally wouldn't do it but it was an interesting thought that I just had.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Just quickly thinking out loud... for those who are in favor of adding Lance Stephenson, would you be okay with a straight Monta-for-Lance trade? At this point I think that's the only kind of trade that the Pacers would take. I personally wouldn't do it but it was an interesting thought that I just had.

I would go on record as saying no as I honestly think that's taking a step sideways at this point (potentially a step back) and I just don't think that makes sense given how well Ellis played last year and how well I anticipate him playing this year.

Yeah, a case could be made for removing an undersized combo-guard for a very capable defender, better rebounder (though less explosive offensively), etc in Lance, but I would rather have my cake and eat it too. Find a way to pair them up - I think it would work out SO well if they could make it happen.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

I would go on record as saying no as I honestly think that's taking a step sideways at this point (potentially a step back) and I just don't think that makes sense given how well Ellis played last year and how well I anticipate him playing this year.

Yeah, a case could be made for removing an undersized combo-guard for a very capable defender, better rebounder (though less explosive offensively), etc in Lance, but I would rather have my cake and eat it too. Find a way to pair them up - I think it would work out SO well if they could make it happen.

We would lose alot offensively. I think gaining Parsons might mitigate that somewhat, but Lance is no Monte yet on the offensive side. I'm comfortable with where we are at.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Just quickly thinking out loud... for those who are in favor of adding Lance Stephenson, would you be okay with a straight Monta-for-Lance trade? At this point I think that's the only kind of trade that the Pacers would take. I personally wouldn't do it but it was an interesting thought that I just had.

If you like lance this much I also think it makes the most sense, I just do not think monta can play point and if tried would frustrate everyone all year, including monta.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If you like lance this much I also think it makes the most sense, I just do not think monta can play point and if tried would frustrate everyone all year, including monta.

Monta can clearly play point as he did quite a bit for us last year (certainly running the sets, initiating the offense, etc) but I understand your point here. I guess I'm just saying we don't have Nash in his prime to squeeze out of the lineup to fit Lance in here. We have Harris and Felton. I mean, come on... Any small amount of decrease in PG efficiency that we get in moving from Harris/Felton to Ellis to get all of the positives from moving to Lance at SG (beside Ellis mind you - which is a HUGE upgrade in the backcourt's defensive prowess) are simply WAY worth it from where I stand.

Everyone continues to go to the head-case defense of not pursuing Lance. I get it. I just don't think it'll come to that. Monta was no different. Lest not forget the Wade comments, the way almost everyone here perceived him coming in, etc. Yeah, Monta didn't blow in LeBron's face during a critical playoff series, but shit, we need that Stevenson-like guy on this roster. I remember people having the opinion that Stevenson with real talent would have been a tremendous asset - well here he is. Stevenson (DeShawn) with real talent is Stephenson (Lance). That's worth the risk to me - especially when you know Dirk has 3 non-prime years left.

[Mav Addict]

Originally Posted by Male30Dan

Yeah, Monta didn't blow in LeBron's face during a critical playoff series, but shit, we need that Stevenson-like guy on this roster. I remember people having the opinion that Stevenson with real talent would have been a tremendous asset - well here he is. Stevenson (DeShawn) with real talent is Stephenson (Lance). That's worth the risk to me - especially when you know Dirk has 3 non-prime years left.

I wholeheartedly agree right there.

Stephenson and Stevenson both provides that "good kinda crazy" that each team needs, that hustle, that grit, that toughness, but without the non-basketball antics.

[spreedom]

Damn double post...

[jamaljasonandjimmy]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Damn double post...

[jthig32]

Welcome back, Dan.

I think three things stand in the way of your proposed deal:

1. The Mavs are scared of Lance. Before the offseason began all the insiders said they weren't even considering him. Apparently they softened a bit when it looked like they might be running of options, but now that they have Parsons I suspect they're back to not touching him. And this is an organization that has been willing to take chances on guys with mixed perceptions, so if they're concerned, you know there's a reason to be.

2. I don't think the Mavs want to play Monta at PG. Yes, he does initiate a lot of the offense, but we've all also seen him go completely off the reservation at times with his decision making. I think the Mavs value having a real PG out there to settle things down. Hell they played Gal Mekel significant minutes last year early on, rather than let Monta play too much point.

3. Felton was absolutely one of the worst starting players on basketball last year. The fact that he has a player option for next season means (I think) that almost no one is going to touch him. I think the Mavs are confident they can get something out of him, but make no mistake, he was foisted on the Mavs as a negative asset as part of the cost of acquiring Tyson.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Welcome back, Dan.

I think three things stand in the way of your proposed deal:

1. The Mavs are scared of Lance. Before the offseason began all the insiders said they weren't even considering him. Apparently they softened a bit when it looked like they might be running of options, but now that they have Parsons I suspect they're back to not touching him. And this is an organization that has been willing to take chances on guys with mixed perceptions, so if they're concerned, you know there's a reason to be.

2. I don't think the Mavs want to play Monta at PG. Yes, he does initiate a lot of the offense, but we've all also seen him go completely off the reservation at times with his decision making. I think the Mavs value having a real PG out there to settle things down. Hell they played Gal Mekel significant minutes last year early on, rather than let Monta play too much point.

3. Felton was absolutely one of the worst starting players on basketball last year. The fact that he has a player option for next season means (I think) that almost no one is going to touch him. I think the Mavs are confident they can get something out of him, but make no mistake, he was foisted on the Mavs as a negative asset as part of the cost of acquiring Tyson.

As far as 1 goes, articles as recently as yesterday still show Dallas interested so do you have a source that is providing that info that they're backing off again given Chandler's arrival or is that just your opinion? I'm not saying opinion or otherwise it's not spot on, but just asking...

Regarding 2, fair enough, but I think the pros of adding Lance's skill set to our lineup given Lance's passing capabilities, Parson's passing capabilities, etc - it all makes the need for a pure point less of a factor. Sure, it may be preferred, but if the goal is winning a championship and not only maximizing Dirk's window but planning for the future after Dirk, it just seems to be a no-brainer to me that Lance solves so much of that while strengthening several of our past weaknesses (perimeter defense, rebounding, Stevenson-type grit, etc).

3 is what it is - they would be forced to take him to make the money line up and hopefully two 1st round picks would be enough to sweeten the pot enough to push it through. Let's make no mistake about it - 2 1st round picks are valuable and Wright is quite valuable as well. If played as a pure 4, he's DAMN good. It just so happens that we have one of the best 4s in the league blocking him and forcing him mostly out of position. Plus there IS the argument (that us Mavs fans hope to be true assuming he isn't moved) that Felton had one hell of a rollercoaster year personally last year, was on a terrible Knicks team filled with terrible attitudes/people, had a terrible coach and simply didn't bring the effort he would in a completely different situation (which Dallas/Indiana both will prove to be). I'm not trying to sell you tripe while calling it a rib eye, I get it, he's a fatty piece of overcooked meat - that said, he truly could end up being an asset for us next year if we are forced to keep him and maybe that's a view Indiana could get to with the other assets coming with the trade.

Anyway - unlikely is the best way to describe that trade dream, but man, you can't say we wouldn't be a damn fun team to watch and a nightmare to face.

[Mav Addict]

I want Stephenson too, but the MBT is all about good character perception and locker room harmony ...Lance has the opposite traits that they are looking for. Not only do the Mavs front office believes this, but apparently most, if not all, front offices feel the same.

I don't get it though. Can't someone at age 23 be rehabilitated?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

I want Stephenson too, but the MBT is all about good character perception and locker room harmony ...Lance has the opposite traits that they are looking for. Not only do the Mavs front office believes this, but apparently most, if not all, front offices feel the same.

I don't get it though. Can't someone at age 23 be rehabilitated?

Maybe... But someone with less to lose ( bad club, overseas ) will be more inclined to take the risk.

[Mav Addict]

“The Pacers reportedly offered Stephenson five-years and $44 million early in free agency but the dynamic swingman refused to sign on the dotted line. With restricted free agent forwards Chandler Parsons and Gordon Hayward each receiving contracts that will pay over $15 million per year Stephenson was wise to turn down Indiana’s initial overture. However, the Pacers’ offer is now even less than what they offered originally.
To make matters worse for Stephenson, the number of teams with the cap space needed to offer him the contract he desires is dwindling by the minute. Reports indicate Charlotte and Dallas had interest, but Charlotte signed Marvin Williams after missing on Hayward. Dallas’ space has since been used on Chandler Parsons.”


Read more: http://sportsglory.com/nba/lance-ste...#ixzz37Yfceqah

His stock is dropping fast, turning down $9M per was mistake ....he is guaranteed to be this year's Monte Ellis.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

“The Pacers reportedly offered Stephenson five-years and $44 million early in free agency but the dynamic swingman refused to sign on the dotted line. With restricted free agent forwards Chandler Parsons and Gordon Hayward each receiving contracts that will pay over $15 million per year Stephenson was wise to turn down Indiana’s initial overture. However, the Pacers’ offer is now even less than what they offered originally.
To make matters worse for Stephenson, the number of teams with the cap space needed to offer him the contract he desires is dwindling by the minute. Reports indicate Charlotte and Dallas had interest, but Charlotte signed Marvin Williams after missing on Hayward. Dallas’ space has since been used on Chandler Parsons.”


Read more: http://sportsglory.com/nba/lance-ste...#ixzz37Yfceqah

His stock is dropping fast, turning down $9M per was mistake ....he is guaranteed to be this year's Monte Ellis.

And wasn't us getting the value we pulled out of Ellis monumentally positive for our team last year? Lightning can strike twice... Obviously it's not as easy as with Ellis (straight FA signing vs. trade) but it's not like it's impossible if we decide to take the chance (assuming of course our package would be enough for Indy).

[Underdog]

Yeah, the buzz on Lance is nil right now. He's the biggest UFA on the market and absolutely nobody is talking about him. You can't even compare his FA situation to Ellis at this point, since the only sticking point with Monta was price... The perception on Lance seems to be almost binary - a lot of teams appear to have no interest in getting him even at fair value.

[BGMaverick9]

You know who has even less buzz than Lance? Marion.
The teams that seemed primed to offer him the better opportunity to win have evaporated or their money is gone.

[Mav Addict]

Greg Monroe if also forgotten, but maybe it's b/c he is restricted. Eric Bledsoe is also restrcted and currently in negotiations with the Suns, but maybe get a low ball offer.

Im not convinced on Ledo and Felton so Stephenson and Bledsoe should get a serious look fromt the Mavs.

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

Greg Monroe if also forgotten, but maybe it's b/c he is restricted. Eric Bledsoe is also restrcted and currently in negotiations with the Suns, but maybe get a low ball offer.

Im not convinced on Ledo and Felton so Stephenson and Bledsoe should get a serious look fromt the Mavs.

Why the heck are you forcing yourself to be convinced on Ledo now?
If anything, he's being groomed to be a true rotation player after this coming season.

[Mav Addict]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Why the heck are you forcing yourself to be convinced on Ledo now?
If anything, he's being groomed to be a true rotation player after this coming season.

You're right, I should have said Crowder and Felton...

[BGMaverick9]

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

You're right, I should have said Crowder and Felton...

Crowder gets a bad rap, but he's a very solid defender and still growing as a perimeter shooting. That's definitely something to build off of.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by Mav Addict

You're right, I should have said Crowder and Felton...

Crowder was our best defender last season - I can't imagine he's going to take a step backwards this season... I'm with you on Felton though. Don't trust the guy.

[hayth.james.g]

double post

[hayth.james.g]

Any chance Donnie reads thru the forums like Morey does for trade ideas lol? "Yo DONNIE, MY MAN, LETS MAKE DA PLAY ON STEPHENSON, I KNOW YOU LIKE ELLIS AT THE 2, BUT TRUST YOUR BOI AND TRY IT OUT."

[Mav Addict]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

Any chance Donnie reads thru the forums like Morey does for trade ideas lol? "Yo DONNIE, MY MAN, LETS MAKE DA PLAY ON STEPHENSON, I KNOW YOU LIKE ELLIS AT THE 2, BUT TRUST YOUR BOI AND TRY IT OUT."

When I read that, I literally laughed out loud.

OK, so now which one of yous is Donnie?

[sefant77]

Dirk loves Monta, RC loves him...no way in hell they trade him for Lance...

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by sefant77

Dirk loves Monta, RC loves him...no way in hell they trade him for Lance...

I was talking about Ellis at the point. Not sure if you were talking to me though.

[Male30Dan]

Originally Posted by hayth.james.g

I was talking about Ellis at the point. Not sure if you were talking to me though.

Think he was referring to Spreedom's post.

[sefant77]

Dirk loves Monta, RC loves him...no way in hell they trade him for Lance...

[MavzMan]

Crowder - For his current pay of $915,243, he is an amazing bargain. Only use him to lure a better fish.
Monta - I see problems with him playing PG, but at the same time I think he could do it and everyone knows he would get time at SG as well.
Stephenson - I can't say enough that I would love to get him on this team.

Keep in mind Monta could bolt next year for a more lucrative contract and probably will. I think this would be an incredibly sick team if we got Stephenson and Bledsoe for Monta+Wright+whatever else and that is both short and long term.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Keep in mind Monta could bolt next year for a more lucrative contract and probably will.

He could... But we could also go over the cap to re-sign him and keep him in Dallas long-term.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by Underdog

He could... But we could also go over the cap to re-sign him and keep him in Dallas long-term.

In all honesty we are looking at a Chandler Parsons scenario but with the roles flipped. We will shoot for a Love, Aldridge, Gasol, and tell MOnte to opt out and look at his options. We will then either land one of the big 3 and match Monte's 12 mill a year offer (my projection) or miss on the superstars and resign ourselves to keeping the same team but flip flopping Chandler and Monte's contracts.

[MavzMan]

...

[LionDallas]

Mo Williams, Jordan Crawford, Al-Farouq Aminu, Shawn Marion, Evan Turner, Blatche, Humphries, Jason Smith and Okafor

I think two of them will be ours

[MavzMan]

Just to clarify my dream trade(s) ...

Wright+picks+??? for Stephenson signed to multi-year contract followed by

Monta for Bledsoe including whatever spare parts are left.

The Monta for Bledsoe actually makes sense with Dragic being Phoenix's primary ball handler at PG. I view Bledsoe as being the same position/type of player as Dragic so I'm not sure why they want him long term anyway honestly.

[Mav Addict]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Just to clarify my dream trade(s) ...

Wright+picks+??? for Stephenson signed to multi-year contract followed by

Monta for Bledsoe including whatever spare parts are left.

The Monta for Bledsoe actually makes sense with Dragic being Phoenix's primary ball handler at PG. I view Bledsoe as being the same position/type of player as Dragic so I'm not sure why they want him long term anyway honestly.

They also just signed PG Isiah Thomas II. Which makes Dragic or Bledsoe expendable, but I would not trade Monte.

[EricaLubarsky]

Our current roster is on average 26.8 years of age, which the lowest average since 2000-2001.

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by EricaLubarsky

Our current roster is on average 26.8 years of age, which the lowest average since 2000-2001.

Does this satisfy those who were extremely upset that Larkin was traded in the Calderon for Tyson deal?

[MavzMan]

Question: Given that Dirk still has not officially signed, do we take that as an indication that the Mavs are still swinging for something big? Otherwise, we would have moved on to free agents signing for the minimum, correct?

[hayth.james.g]

Originally Posted by MavzMan

Question: Given that Dirk still has not officially signed, do we take that as an indication that the Mavs are still swinging for something big? Otherwise, we would have moved on to free agents signing for the minimum, correct?

BG posted a page or two ago that Cuban said he had no intention of lowering Dirk or Harris' contract. He said (and I might be paraphrasing) "I wouldn't do that to those guys".