Stickman

[kingrex]

I have to say that this forum has given me a greater appreciation and respect for the monogamous mormon mantis.

**tear**. **sniff-sniff**.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[FineCubanCigar]

Murph your stats are wrong Bradley had more DNP coaches decisions thatn that, not to mention the games he was on the IR list because he wasn't contributing, so we freed up a roster spot for someone who would actually play.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: jacktruth
Wasn't Manute Bol like 7-7?
What about Mark Eaton?

Eaton was "only" 7'4".

[Murphy3]

which stats are wrong?

the past 5 years plus this year

98-99 Bradley games played 49, team games played 50
99-00 Bradley games played 77, team games played 82
00-01 Bradley games played 82, team games played 82
01-02 Bradley games played 53, team games played 82
02-03 Bradley games played 81, team games played 82
03-04 Bradley games played 10, team games played 11

Totals
Bradley games played 352, team games played 389
Bradley's played in 90.4% of the games over the past 5 seasons plus 11 games into this year.

Most of the 47 missed games over that time period came in 01-02 when he missed 29 games. Most of that was due to performance and/or Nellie's use of personnel.

Where exactly are my stats wrong?

[Murphy3]

still waiting FCC

[Day1MavsFan]

[qI'm curious as to whether or not Nellie even planned on playing Bradley last night. I believe putting in Bradley was a last ditch attempt to get some defensive pressure on the inside[/quote]


Yeah, that really bothered me. I was thinking all thru the first half about Nellie not putting Shawn in after such a good performance against Houston. I was thinking the same thing in the 3rd quarter, it was just a last ditch effort since the team wasn't playing so well, and that Nellie wouldn't have given him a minute, otherwise. Najera was playing great for sure, but I see no reason why both of them could not have been on the floor. Three scorers plus those two can still get it done offensively, especially since they can hit open shots when needed.

Unfortunately, I was unable to watch last night's game, bummer. I did notice that Shawn got a DNP. I really fail to realize why Shawn can't play against teams with shorter centers. I don't know what Portland's points in the paint were, but my guess is they had a lot of them.

Also, did anyone notice Shawn's comments after the Houston game? He didn't even seem excited about his performance. Why? He knew it was back to the doghouse.

[LRB]

Day1MavsFan Shawn was injured last night, that was why he didn't play. He saw the game in street clothes.

[chumdawg]

After reading the DMN today, I had the impression that we may be a little off target in thinking that Nellie has simply been choosing not to play Bradley all that much early this season. Today's paper seemed to indicate that A) Bradley was just starting to get into playing shape, B) Nellie has been pleased with his play in at least couple recent games, and C) Nellie was very disappointed to possibly have had another setback due to Bradley's physical condition.

Maybe this is another thing we need to give a little time. Now, I doubt Bradley's going to ever get huge minutes under Nellie, but maybe when he gets (and stays) into good playing shape he'll see 20 minutes or so a game.

I don't know. I'm just not sure Nellie is as down on Bradley as it may have seemed. Hell, hasn't Nellie pretty well stuck with the guy for quite a long while now? When you consider all the guys who have gone through this revolving door, Shawn's actually stayed a good while. I think Nellie likes him a lot as another piece that he can play mad scientist with.

For the record, I'm a Bradley fan. I'll concur with similar comments I have read on this board and say that if Bradley could have the same effect when he plays but be about eight inches shorter, fans would rave over him. So many times he just changes games on one end of the floor. But of course, when he does people say "Well, why shouldn't he?" Poor guy's been in a catch-22 his whole career.

[Sards]

It always amazes me when self-proclaimed basketball experts chide the ignorant "baketball masses" (supposedly the majority of fans) who think that Shawn Bradley is no good just because he looks goofy. These "experts" (who frequently post on Dallas Mavericks forums) insist that these ignorant fans fail to notice the many positive aspects of Bradley's game. The experts think that since they know so much about basketball, they are able to look past the goofy and frequently inept appearance of Bradley's game and see that he is a tremendous "intimidator" inside, that he dissuades opposing players from attacking the rim, and that he is a good rebounder.

Well, I am here (yes, I registered for this forum specifically to post this) to tell you that such "experts" are wrong. They may very well be quite knowledegable about basketball, but they are over-thinking this one. You can talk all you want about how he challenges shots, how he provides an inside presence, how he grabs rebounds, etc., all of which may be true to a certain, if usually overstated, degree; however, I challenge you to simply watch him play. It is obvious that he is, frankly, a pathetic basketball player. He does not know what he is doing out there. I would venture to say that your average 13-year-old basketball player has a higher basketball IQ than Bradley. Furthermore, he is fumbling, bumbling, and uncoordinated. Even further more, he spends much of his court time whining to the refs to the point that it has a negative impact on the game.

Now I am sure that many of you will be less than receptive to my views on this subject. You might think that I am one of those fools who has a "lower basketball IQ than Steve Francis." After all, you might say, Bradley averages a ton of blocks and rebounds per minute while shooting high percentages from the floor and the line. Of course you will also say that he even changes a lot more shots than he blocks, having a big-time impact on the game defensively. You might say that if he weren't so tall and goofy looking, I would be thrilled with his production. But, unfortunately, you would be wrong. Here's why: even taking his shot-blocking into account, Bradley is a terrible (yes, terrible) defender. Any player with a bit of muscle or a bit of quickness can score on him easily. Furthermore, he is offensively inept. Although he shoots a good percentage (mostly on 15+ ft. set shots), he does more harm than good. He is nearly always doing the wrong thing at the wrong place at the wrong time. His general inability to understand what is happening on the court and to infer what he should do on the court causes the offense to bog down at times. That is why the common argument ("It doesn't matter that he isn't good on offense because we have so many other good scorers that we don't need him to score") doesn't fly. Someone like Eduardo Najera might score less frequently than Bradley and shoot a worse percentage (not sure about that one) but the offense flows much better when he is in the game than when Bradley is.

So, in summary, Shawn Bradley stinks. He is a bad basketball player that should only be used situationally (e.g. to negate Yao Ming's height advantage). I believe that Don Nelson understands this, and this is why Bradley does not play much. Here are some interesting statistics for you. The Mavs' record has improved in every season since 1997-98. With one exception, Shawn Bradley's minutes per game have decreased in every season since 1997-98. Last season was the best in Mavericks history, and guess what? Bradley played BY FAR the fewest minutes of his career. I realize that there are countless confounding variables here, but it is something to think about.

Finally, I realize that it is not good form for a first post to be this inflammatory, but I felt that this needed to be said. In general, I'm not really this negative of a person! So I hope you will not be too harsh on me. Thanks for reading my lengthy post if you have gotten this far!

[Evilmav2]

Ranks #2 in the NBA in Steals Per 48 Minutes(4.31)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Blocks Per 48 Minutes(5.93)
Ranks #6 in the NBA in Efficiency Ranking Per 48 Minutes(30.2)

That's pretty damned efficient, but just wait and see what happens if Big Don comes to his comes to his senses and plays #44 for more than 8.9 mpg. That's the kind of executive decision-making that can win shot blocking titles...

[Murphy3]

Last season was the best in Mavericks history, and guess what? Bradley played BY FAR the fewest minutes of his career. I realize that there are countless confounding variables here, but it is something to think about.

Sards, if you're going to go on a rant, sards..at least be correct. It doesn't do alot for your statement if you throw out phrases that are completely incorrect.

Bradley averaged over 7 minutes per game more last season than he did the season before.


Did you know that Finley's Points Per Game have gone down every season since 98-99? Just curious. The Mavs have gotten better while Fin's PPG have consistently decreased. Is it any coincidence? Perhaps Finley should shoot even less and less. His field goal attempts have gone down in each of those seasons. Did you know that?

What do the little tidbit that I included about Finley and the incorrect tidbit that you tried to contribute concerning Bradley tell us? Perhaps players numbers do go down as a team gets more talented? Is that possible?

However, with Bradley, he is the only player on the team that's capable of playing 20 minutes a game on the Mavs team other than Dirk. Dirk's natural position dang sure isn't the center spot. It is painfully obvious that he'd rather be at the PF spot. Why would you want to put your best player out of position ESPECIALLY if you're not going to start AJ and AW.

[Murphy3]

and chumdawg, what Nellie said in the DMN isn't necessarily the same thing that hewas saying before Bradley put together two great back to back games. His tune suddenly changed.

I'll see if I can find the exact quote, but it was something similar to 'bradley needs to get in gear and finally start contributing'. It was on Norm's show on the ticket, so I'll have to see if there's a link up to it. However, at that time, Nellie did not give any indication that Bradley's lackof playing time was due to recovering from an injury. It appeared that Nellie was not happy with Bradley's play up to that point.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo

Beware the Storkman!!!!!!!

[chumdawg]

Interesting post, Shards. I may disagree, but at least it's well spoken (and food for thought). My apologies if this is has been posted on this board before, but I found an interesting article by Mike Fisher on dallasbasketball.com:

Bradley Earns Props In Win Over Rox
By Mike Fisher -- DallasBasketball.com
There’s 2:46 left in the third quarter, the Mavs are pulling away from the Rockets, and the centerpiece of so much Dallas fan attention is jogging across center court. Yes, Shawn Bradley deserved to bask in the glow of a standing ovation as he trotted triumphantly back to the bench.
But, the standing O was not for the exiting Bradley, but instead for his replacement, Eduardo Najera, taking off his warmups for the first time all night.
Maybe this was ‘Ignorant Fan Night’ at American Airlines Center, but some appreciation of one of Shawn’s finest nights in. ... well, in forever, would have been nice.
I’m not just saying this because I’m president of the long-ago-disbanded ‘Shawn Bradley Patience Club’ (SBPC). And I really am willing to give some slack to some dunderheaded fans, like the ones interviewed on the Jumbotron before the game who failed to correctly answer MC Chris Arnold’s ‘trivia question’, which was, I swear to God, ‘Name Four Players On The Dallas Mavericks Team.’
You want the single most important reason Dallas beat Houston on Thursday? Shawn Bradley dominated Yao Ming.
Yes, dominated.
‘That was my job,’ said Bradley, barely concealing his happiness. ‘Part of it is, he never sees anybody his own height. It’s a different look, a different challenge.’
Bradley is being too humble. By fronting him and denying the ball on the defensive end and then wrasslin’ with him when the ball went up on both ends, Bradley completely erased Yao during Shawn’s 16 minutes.
’He’s going to be a great player,’ Bradley said of Yao, ‘but I’ve been in the league 11 years. I just used some of the things I’ve learned.’
Specifically, the denial of the entry pass to prevent touches, the meeting of Yao at the free-throw line to take away his comfort zone, and physical play of the sort that only a 7-6 guy can offer.
On ‘Ignorant Fan Night,’ I expect some people will get tangled up in a boxscore that makes it appear as though the much-ballyhooed Yao had a decent game (12 points, eight rebounds in 30 minutes) while Shawn had a typically mundane one (1-of-4 shooting, five points and two rebounds in 16 minutes).
But Bradley’s teammates, and anyone who’s ever stepped onto a jockstrap, know what he accomplished.
Said Dirk Nowitzki:’Bradley was great.’
Said Danny Fortson:‘Shawn being the same size as him really threw him off.’
Said Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy: ‘Bradley was a big factor.’
Said Yao himself: ‘I felt like I was surrounded all night.’
As a public service, I decided to chart Bradley’s work when he and Yao were in the game together. (Prepare to be impressed):
Bradley’s First Stint

He enters with 5:31 left in the first, as the first guy off the bench, and immediately leans on Yao – not worrying about the ball, just about the man – and prevents an offensive rebound

Moments later, he blocks a Steve Francis and-one attempt as the whistle blows

Then he blocks a Yao stuff attempt (though he is called for a questionable foul)

He records a steal off Yao inside

Then he forced a Yao miss on a reverse layup
Then, at 2:30, Bradley exits. Three effective minutes, and Yao has nothing on him.
Bradley’s Second Stint

He enters with 9:05 left in the third, and starrs out by setting a screen for a Nash basket

He forces a Kelvin Cato miss

He pokes ball away from Yao to prevent the entry pass

He grabs defensive rebound off Yao miss

He draws a charge against Cuttino Mobley

He grabs an offensive rebound

He screens for an Antoine Walker made jumper

He denies Yao the ball, forcing Houston into a shot-clock violation

He forces a Moochie Norris tunover

He leaves at 2:46, when Najera comes in. The Bradley-Yao tale of the tape so far? Yao 2, Shawn 1. Yao has one field-goal attempt and two made free throws. That’s it.
Bradley’s Third Stint

He’s in again with 7:00 remaining in the game, and starts with an ill-advised jumper

On defense, he wrestles Yao away from the boards as the rebound lands elsewhere

He later overplays Yao on defense to prevent yet another entry pass

He passes on shooting a baseline jumper, instead giving it up and then cutting toward the hole, where he receives the ball and draws a Yao foul. He makes both, and now, head-to-head, Shawn has outscored Yao 3-2.

At about the 5-minute mark, Bradley feels a body circling behind him and winds up to throw an elbow before realizing the body belongs to new teammate Antoine Walker

He misses a jump shot, the fans hoot

He runs down court and blocks the next shot, the fans cheer – and the PA system plays Elvis’ ‘Return To Sender’

Bradley pump-fakes and then jump-hooks, making the basket
Bottom line: Ming managed one blocked shot to Bradley’s one (credited). Ming had two steals, but Bradley had three. Ming never made a shot while Bradley was in the game, barely took a shot, was usually denied even a touch, and was outscored head-to-head 5-2 by Bradley.
‘That was my job,’ said Bradley, who did it well, even if the folks having so much fun disliking him failed to notice.

[Jamisonite]

Bradley is just an over paid stick figure. Theres no way he has anything to do with our championship run. He can do nothing agaisnt LA except foul Shaq and the same goes for when we play SA, Sac, and Minn. He cant keep up with their paces and he cant defend their big men. He can defend Yao yes cuz Yao is just as weak as he is. They are doing what they need to do. Play him 10 minutes while their reserve big men are on the floor or when Dirk gets in foul trouble.

[chumdawg]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
and chumdawg, what Nellie said in the DMN isn't necessarily the same thing that hewas saying before Bradley put together two great back to back games. His tune suddenly changed.

I'll see if I can find the exact quote, but it was something similar to 'bradley needs to get in gear and finally start contributing'. It was on Norm's show on the ticket, so I'll have to see if there's a link up to it. However, at that time, Nellie did not give any indication that Bradley's lackof playing time was due to recovering from an injury. It appeared that Nellie was not happy with Bradley's play up to that point.

You may be right. Here's the DMN quote:

"Just when we get him playing well, and I think he's going to be a factor, and now he's out again. Hopefully, it's not too long, because then you have to do the conditioning thing again. But he's actually helped us in a couple of games now."

So he does say that only just now is he "playing well." But he does say "again" when talking about the conditioning thing. Granted, he sounds surprised that Bradley has "actually helped."

Here's one from the Star Telegram:

"Without Shawn Bradley [sprained left knee] in the middle, we are a very small team," Nelson said. "[The Blazers] did what they were supposed to do: try to beat us up inside, rebound and throw the ball inside."

At least he's thinking of Shawn as a potential way to stop that sort of nonsense!

One more from Star Telegram:

"Just about the time he starts playing well and I think I can use him, then I find out he can't play," Nelson said. "It's a kick in my teeth, but I'll have to deal with it."

It's clear that he didn't think he could use him before. I'm just not sure it's clear exactly why (condition or performance). I think it's also clear that he's disappointed not to have him at the moment.

Who knows. Maybe we'll see more of the STICKMAN soon after all.

[Murphy3]

You never know. I'll be relatively patient with Nellie's use of Bradley. However, Bradley logging heavy minutes is really the only alternative this Mavs team has other than playing Dirk HEAVY minutes at the center position. I can't say I like that idea.

[Jamisonite]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
You never know. I'll be relatively patient with Nellie's use of Bradley. However, Bradley logging heavy minutes is really the only alternative this Mavs team has other than playing Dirk HEAVY minutes at the center position. I can't say I like that idea.

We still have fortson. I like fortson in there agaisnt some of the West's big men before i do Bradley

[Murphy3]

There are a couple of big men that I would use Fortson for more minutes over Bradley. But I really can't think of many in which that'd be the case.

Fortson will have a role on this team, but I cannot see him playing nearly as many minutes as Bradley. Fortson can rebound, but he is otherwise a horrible defender.

[FineCubanCigar]

Bradley sat on the bench more than 1 game last year. I.E. wasn't he on the IR?

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
Bradley sat on the bench more than 1 game last year. I.E. wasn't he on the IR?

Bradley played in all but one game last year according to yahoo sports, cnnsi.com, nba.com, espn.com, and patricia's website.

Good enough?

[madape]

We still have fortson. I like fortson in there agaisnt some of the West's big men before i do Bradley

Fortson was obliterated by Sheed and Thomas in the Portland game. He was pummeled by Shaq in the Lakers game. He's not the answer.

On the other hand, Shawn has shut down the low post scoring in at least two games this year. Any time he gets significant minutes, the low post scoring stops. Just check out his last two games against Memphis and Houston. Those teams just happen to have two of the best low post scorers in the business, and neither could get anything going against the Mavericks with Shawn in the game. And your comment about Bradley not having success against other Western conference centers is dead wrong. He has trouble with Shaq, but no more trouble than anyone else in the league. He certainly does better than Fortson, who's a half foot shorter, weaker, and less athletic than the big Diesel. I've seen Shawn frustrate and confuse Shaq at times, which is all you can really ask for against a guy like Shaq.

Bradley has always played well against Duncan, always. I can't really think of a guy who plays him better. In fact, last year Nelson called Bradley's defense on Duncan "the best he's seen". I don't remember the exact stat line, but Shawn stifled him to the point where Duncan couldn't score more than than around 15 points and didn't reach doubke digit rebounds before being forced out of the game in the fourth quarter with a minor injury.

The Mantis may not look pretty, but he is extremely effective against any team that relies on a traditional low post offensive game. Where he's not effective is in games against teams with a lot of shooters, or good low post passers, who make the Mavericks pay for going zone. Obviously he's not going to get time against someone like Sacramento. But your suggestion that Shawn is innefective against other Western Conference teams shows me that you haven't been watching him very closely. (and your childish namecalling shows me that you may be intellectually incapable of appreciating good basketball, even if you tried)

[madape]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
Bradley sat on the bench more than 1 game last year. I.E. wasn't he on the IR?

I remember him going on the IR after the Denver trade. We needed to clear up active roster spots for the incoming players (a traded player can't immediately be put on the injured list). If I remember correctly, he returned to the active lineup soon after his mandatory time on the IR was spent.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: madape

I remember him going on the IR after the Denver trade. We needed to clear up active roster spots for the incoming players (a traded player can't immediately be put on the injured list). If I remember correctly, he returned to the active lineup soon after his mandatory time on the IR was spent.

Of course, that wasn't last year though. It was the 01-02 season.

As for big men that Bradley has frustrated, let's not forget about Karl Malone.

[LRB]

Bradley has also had some very good games against KG in the past.

[Sards]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Sards, if you're going to go on a rant, sards..at least be correct. It doesn't do alot for your statement if you throw out phrases that are completely incorrect.

Bradley averaged over 7 minutes per game more last season than he did the season before.

My bad. You are 100% correct... For some reason I looked at this season's 8.9 MPG and thought that that was last season's average. In any case, I still stand behind the rest of my post.

[Murphy3]

Glory Glory...Bradley is starting

[LRB]

Shawn definitely make a big impact to night. I'm so happy Nellie finally started him. Shawn definitely made it much harder for Duncan.

[Murphy3]

I think he did okay but in order for him to be successful guarding Duncan, Bradley must be in the game. It's like you wish you had 2 Shawn Bradley's. One that can come in when the other needs a breather or is in foul trouble. Damn, what am I saying? I love Bradley this year. He hasn't been inconsistent at all. He has done nothing wrong this season lol. Bradley has made no errors this year.

From FFM...gotta preserve this

[bernardos70]

People can joke about per-48 minute stats and try to dismiss their significance, but at the end of the game, if you look back, you see that Bradley is really efficient. He makes the minutes he is in there count. I got a good chance to focus on watching him, and everytime he was in the game and you'd see ginobili trying to get in for a layup, he had to change his shot, try to go for the other side..... and people say Bradley isn't a defensive presence.

[LRB]

and people say Bradley isn't a defensive presence.

One thing I enjoyed was Steve Kerr saying that Shawn is a real defensive prescense. Aside from our homer announcers, it has been a rare occurence when an announcer gives Shawn props.

[Murphy3]

Before you know it, there will be bandwagoners jumping on the Bradley-wagon at an alarming rate. I'm not sure that applications are still being accepted.

It's a shame that many fans still boo him at games. Actually, it's an embarrassment to the franchise to see the only player on the team that's capable of changing a game for the positive get booed by the fans.

[madape]

Nice game for the Mantis. Another productive defensive job against Duncan. He just keeps on playing great against the MVP.

Here's a quote from the DMN:

Bradley's presence was critical, too. The evening didn't start so well for the 7-6 center, who was involved in a fender bender on the way to American Airlines Center.

The day became more eventful when Bradley got to the arena and found out he was starting after playing only four minutes in the previous two games because of a sore left knee.

Bradley controlled the paint well enough to fluster the Spurs. He blocked three shots in 22 minutes.

"I know what they were going through," said Antawn Jamison, who suffered a mild right hamstring pull in the fourth quarter that is not expected to keep him out for long, if at all. "I used to hate playing against Shawn. He didn't even have to block any shots. He just made it hard to get near the basket."

I think Jamison's quote sums up Bradley's impact. He doesn't even have to block shots. His mere presense on the court is enough to alter the flow of an offense. We saw it tonight AGAIN. Why can't this guy get off the bench on most nights?

[jacktruth]

Man, I think people who don't appreciate what Shawn does simply don't go to the games, don't understand basketball, or both. I don't think you can see all that he does on TV.

I made it a point to watch Bradley and his impact last night (something TV cameras don't do). SA attacks the basket when Bradley is out. When he is in, the don't. They run a pick and roll offense which results in a lot of lot of jump shots. Even when a player goes in, they either hesitate before they jump, or they don't even try. This causes a lot of interior turnovers and a lot of missed or blocked shots. As soon as he leaves the game, the defense breaks down and Nellie calls a timeout within minutes. I think (as do others here) that it is imperative for this team that Bradley starts because you don't want to start a game with an opponent layup drill, which SA will do. If you force them into jump shooting, the game quickly changes into a Mavs tempo, and that's when we win. The Mavs win or lose games in the first and third quarters. That's when he needs to be in there.

I straightened out at least one fan last night. He shouted, "why are you wearing a Mavs uniform, Bradley!" The next time down the floor, he blocked a shot, and I pointed that out. The next time down, he prevented a foul by Walker from turning into a 3-pt play. The next time, he caused a turnover by just being there. The next time, he blocked a shot and grabbed the rebound. By the 4th quarted, this guy was singing praises for the Mantis.

I will say it again. I love Shawn Bradley.

[dallas_esq]

God bless Shawn Bradley.

[MavsFanatik33]

Shawn Bradley is the reason my varsity coach doesn't let us use the excuse that we lost because the other team is taller...

[Murphy3]

You can only imagine the looks I got over the past year and a half at games when I yelled for NVE to come out of the game so that Bradley could come in..

just say no to small ball.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally posted by: MavsFanatik33
Shawn Bradley is the reason my varsity coach doesn't let us use the excuse that we lost because the other team is taller...

Which actually shows ignorance on the part of your varsity coach.

[FineCubanCigar]

3 blocks in 22 minutes, hell for bradley that an all-star calibur contribution!

[LRB]

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
3 blocks in 22 minutes, hell for bradley that an all-star calibur contribution!

Actually I would say that 3 blocks per game would be pretty much allstar calibur for anyone. Doing it in just 22 minutes is extremely good.