Stickman - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

FineCubanCigar · 11-14-2003, 12:57 PM

this thread replaces the 4 year long thread that simply disappeared off the site recently, any thoughts an the circus clown on stilts? I still think he is too soft and streaky to be counted on to consistantly contribute despite last years decent 15 game run and this year's contributions up to this point. I got 9 years of sucking to back me so bring it on all you Bradley boosters and haters! Disclamer: per 48 minute stats are the most worthless, misleading stat in the world, Tony Dumas would have averaged 78 points a game, and beat out Wilt C. in total NBA points ever scored if he played 48 minutes a game for 10 years.

madape · 11-14-2003, 01:49 PM

Thanks for bringing back the thread FCC.

I think Bradley's smashing of Yao last night speaks for itself.

Bradley should get more playing time. If he does, he'll turn those "per 48 minute" stats into "per 35" minute stats and

1) lead the league in blocks
2) average double digit rebounds
3) force opposing offenses to shoot less than 40% from the field
4) lead the Mavericks to thier first ever NBA championship

kingrex · 11-14-2003, 02:07 PM

They are using Bradley just perfectly. Maybe a few more minutes, but most definitely in certain situations only. Not a starter (IMO). He works best with our second wave and closing out the 1st half when we need to throw that curve at an opponent. He'll reduce the amont of shots in the paint (especially when we're in the zone), and give us the occasional bail out baseline jumper. He will be contributor, but only from the bench.

Murphy3 · 11-14-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

They are using Bradley just perfectly

No, they're not. Bradley needs to log around 20 minutes a game. Bradley will have a significant impact on the Mavs overall defense if he's given more minutes. Will the offense suffer? No, not really. They'll still have more than enough fire power on the court.

kingrex · 11-14-2003, 02:31 PM

I think Bradley needs to average between 15 to 20 minutes. You're right he doesn't hurt the offense. I just think that when he's had prolonged minutes he tends to get exposed out there. When he's allowed to do what the does best, like anchor the zone and play in stretches against a less athletic or undersized center, he usually shines. IMO Anymore than that becomes too much for him. Whether it's getting into foul trouble, getting out-run down the court, or simply shoved around. Use Bradley like the tool that he is, and don't give him starters minutes.

Nicky31 · 11-14-2003, 02:32 PM

The only reason he doesn't log alot of minutes is because Nellie is in love with the tandem of Nowitzki and Walker abusing forwards and centers on offense. I like the way Nellie managed minutes in the Rockets game last night, but agree that Bradley needs to average around 20-25 minutes per game for defensive purposes, and to close out games in the fourth quarter.

Dirk Nowitzki · 11-14-2003, 02:34 PM

Nellie is making it tough for any coach in the NBA to gameplan for the Mavs. They have played a lot more man defense it seems than they had this time last year, so at times when NBA coaches are expecting to see zone from the Mavs, they go man & vise versa. Also, you never know if Nellie is gonna throw Shawn in to man the middle, go with the potato to clogg things up, grab some boards & bang on post players (I hope he improves on the offensive end so Nellie feels comfertable playing him) or go with a five all star line up & make opposing big men chase shooters all over the floor. I'll have to admit that I doubeted Nellie a little after these trades. I thought that the Mavs obviously won from a talent stand point, but was unsure how he could make it work, but Nellie seems to have a pretty good idea of how to use what he has defensivly to make it work for the Mavs. IMO, their is no doubt that this should be a better defensive team. Would you rather have NVE & Reaf or Jamison & Walker on the floor to put a hand in a big guys face & grab some offensive boards? IMO from what I have seen so far, Jamison is not as bad of a defender as many GS fans made him out to be & Walker is a slightly above average defender. Add to that Delks defense & what Howard can bring to the table with time & I think we are in pretty good shape.

Psychedelic Fuzz · 11-14-2003, 02:48 PM

Quote:

There are times when it shouldn't matter if the other guy is Shawn Bradley, all arms and legs and awkward angles, flapping at you like a mad stork.

be the stork big man.

kg_veteran · 11-14-2003, 02:48 PM

Shawn is playing his way back into game shape. Once he's healthy, I expect to see him getting about 15-25 minutes a night, depending on the circumstances.

u2sarajevo · 11-14-2003, 03:16 PM

Beware the Storkman!!!!!!!

Caliente · 11-14-2003, 03:19 PM

ROFL..........[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]...........

Your magical powers exceed my own.................[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Murphy3 · 11-14-2003, 03:56 PM

Courtesy of U2sarajevo:
Bradley headed back to the doghouse

LRB · 11-14-2003, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
Courtesy of U2sarajevo:
Bradley headed back to the doghouse

Nice shoes that Nellie has on. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

u2sarajevo · 11-14-2003, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
Nice shoes that Nellie has on. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

I thought that made it even funnier. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img] [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

kg_veteran · 11-14-2003, 04:15 PM

Classic.

grndmstr_c · 11-14-2003, 04:21 PM

Outstanding, U2.

Murphy3 · 11-14-2003, 04:32 PM

Both of those pictures go in the d-m.com hall of fame.

Day1MavsFan · 11-14-2003, 04:59 PM

The problem with Nellie is that:
A. He's in love with small ball/offense and seems to look for any excuse to put a 5-scorer lineup in the game, and
B. He doesn't give Shawn consistent minutes, even after a stellar performance like last night.

So what this does is it leaves Shawn wondering, "What do I gotta do?". There is no reward for a good performance for Shawn. Not only that, but he has lowered the expectations for Shawn so much that he is discouraged by the fact that he will never be allowed to contribute completely. It's like a ceiling that Nellie has put on him, like the fleas in the jar. When Jim Cleamons coached here, Shawn was motivated and productive. Why? Because he was able to be a part of the game on both ends of the floor and he wasn't on the verge of being sent to the doghouse for one mistake.
I can't figure out why Nellie yanks Shawn so fast after letting a guy get by him, but he keeps Finley on the floor for 40+ minutes while throwing up bricks and letting opposing guards blow right by him. Time and time again when Bradley plays for 20 minutes or more, I read the opposing coach's comments about how Bradley made such a difference defensively. That is not to say that Shawn hasn't had bad games or doesn't go thru bad stretches, like anyone else, but those other players don't seem to end up in the doghouse.
If you watched the Miami game, Shawn came in during the 2nd quarter and played for several minutes. During that time the Heat scored zero points in the paint. Prior to that, they were doing a layup drill. Additionally, what a lot of people don't realize is that even though he may only get a couple of blocks, he alters shots and even keeps opposing players from even thinking about going in the lane! That doesn't show up on the stat sheet, other than in fg%. Furthermore, it allows the guards a little more freedom to stay up on their man knowing that Shawn is back there guarding the basket.
I was at the game last night, and it was unbelievable how ridiculous the fans were towards Shawn. He enters the game and on the first possession he receives a pass and gets fouled just as he attempts to make a pass. People started griping, saying things like, "Get him outta there!" If he misses a free throw, there is a collective groan, but not when Walker or Jamison miss 3 or 4. If he goes in motion to take a shot, people start shouting "NO!" before he can even release it, even though it is well within his range. It's not like he's always forcing shots like Walker. Sure, he puts up a few head-scratchers. He'll go out there and grab 6 rebounds in 15 minutes, but nobody thinks that is so good. If one bounces hard off the rim and gets by him, people start having fits, like he is supposed to be as tall as a tree but quick as a cat.
I guess people just got used to Nelson's style and don't value defense. Defense is just as important, moreso I could even argue, as is offense in basketball. I am much less irritated by a guy like Shawn who obviously doesn't have the physical tools to be a consistent scorer, than I am with a guy who has a lot of athleticism and potential but doesn't D up or take the ball to the hole. Will Shawn give us this kind of play every game? No, but Nash will have cold shooting nights and still not play much D or rebound, and Finley will also go thru long stretches of that as well, and Dirk will not play too much D and sometimes get cold. And those are our stars. The role players will be even more inconsistent. What I am saying is that he is no more or less streaky than anyone else except maybe Dirk, and while he doesn't have a mean streak he is definitely not soft. He fights, it is just hard for a stick to beat a rock. No, he is not an all-star, we wouldn't have him if he was. But if you think he is worthless, you are foolish.

madape · 11-14-2003, 05:24 PM

Great post Day1Mavs fan. I too am puzzled by the general misperception and misunderstanding about Shawn Bradley. I was at the game too, and heard dozens of people screaming for Nelson to put Najera in... despite the fact that Yao absolutely abused him in the short time he was on the court. I really wish that the Mavs instituted a basketball IQ test to fans before they entered the arena. Bradley deserves better than what he's been subjected to from his "hometown" fans.

LRB · 11-14-2003, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: madape
Great post Day1Mavs fan. I too am puzzled by the general misperception and misunderstanding about Shawn Bradley. I was at the game too, and heard dozens of people screaming for Nelson to put Najera in... despite the fact that Yao absolutely abused him in the short time he was on the court. I really wish that the Mavs instituted a basketball IQ test to fans before they entered the arena. Bradley deserves better than what he's been subjected to from his "hometown" fans.

All too true Ape. Lots of fans just flat out hate Bradley because he looks goofy. But most of the them have a lower basketball IQ than Stevie Francis.

Murphy3 · 11-14-2003, 05:34 PM

Day1MavsFan, excellent post for the most part. But, I must take exception with one quote:

Quote:

and while he doesn't have a mean streak he is definitely not soft

Bradley definitely has a mean streak. I'd say he has more of a mean streak than probably any other player on the Mavs team. Per 48 minutes, he's probably the most likely person to get into someone's face (yeah, I thought the per 48 minutes stat was appropriate here ). Bradley will gladly give someone an extra elbow. He'll knock someone to the floor from time to time, and he's the most likely player in a Mavs uniform to get in an opponents face...or, 6-8 inches above the top of their head. But, you get the point.

Bradley is undervalued by the fans. What's even more distressing is that it appears that Nellie has spent too much time listening to the fans. He's undervalued and underutilized by Nellie. It's disheartening to me as a Mavs fan to see this occur.

kg_veteran · 11-14-2003, 06:04 PM

The basketball viewing public will never truly appreciate Shawn's value. The dude is what he is, and that's a very useful contributor to an elite team.

I like Najera, I really do. But anybody calling for him to be inserted into the game to guard Yao over Bradley is what Galloway would refer to as a "basketball idiot".

I guess people still expect Shawn to be a franchise player.

Murphy3 · 11-14-2003, 06:22 PM

KG, some people just aren't able to look past his 'goofiness'. Plus, they see him getting slammed over from time to time by a much shorter person, and they assume that he isn't a good defender. The negative hype just snowballs out of control. As for Najera, well..let's just say the snowball rolls the opposite direction for him. People see a short guy hustling, drawing a charge, and stripping a guy occasionally and they assume that he must be a good defender.

Well, public sentiment grows out of control. Soon enough, you have people dogging Bradley in favor of Najera..people that don't have a clue as to what goes on down on the court except that a little hispanic player is flying out of bounds for a loose ball that's already 10 rows deep and has already knocked the beer out of some blonde chic's hand that wasn't paying attention because she was too busy gabbing about her boob job.

raefformvp · 11-14-2003, 06:32 PM

Bradley is far from my favorite player, but I appreciate what he brings to the Mavs. What I can't stand is being at the game when he goes in. You can feel the life get sucked out of the arena. Each time he touches the ball you can just feel the fans wanting him to fail. It drives me nuts. If you are a fan of the Mavs cheer the entire team. Give Bradley a little support for crying out loud and he just might suprise some people.

Murphy3 · 11-16-2003, 12:12 AM

The domination by the Stickman continues with another dominating performance.

LRB · 11-16-2003, 02:28 AM

Bradley definitely showed tonight why Nellie needs to get over his man hate of Shawn and play the Mantis more.

Max Power · 11-16-2003, 11:41 AM

Nellie rode Shawn HARD in the 3rd quarter and it paid off for the Mavs.

Murphy3 · 11-16-2003, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Max Power
Nellie rode Shawn HARD in the 3rd quarter and it paid off for the Mavs.

yes he did MaxPower.
I'm curious as to whether or not Nellie even planned on playing Bradley last night. I believe putting in Bradley was a last ditch attempt to get some defensive pressure on the inside

kingrex · 11-17-2003, 11:27 AM

Bradley's play in the Memphis game warranted more minutes. I suggested above that he get no more than 15 to 20, but I also said that it should be in specific situations. In hindsight (which granted is always 20/20), Nellie should have played Bradley more. He shouldn't have waited until the second half to plug him in. As Murph mentioned, it seemed like a "last resort" effort on Nellie's part. Nellie needs to be more opportunistic than that when using the big tool. I don't often fall on the side of playing Bradley more, but for that game it was glaringly obvious that Nellie should have.

Oh well, let's hope that Nellie will no better next time.

jacktruth · 11-17-2003, 04:50 PM

This may not add a whole lot of content to the discussion. For that, I am sorry,

but I love Shawn Bradley. I do. I love how much Karl Malone hates him. I love how much Shaq hates him. I love how much every center and forward in the league hates him. I love when he is still wrestling long after the ball has gone to the other end of the court.

I love Shawn Bradley, I do.

Murphy3 · 11-17-2003, 04:58 PM

he's a very fiery player...i'm willing to bet that no 7'6 player in the history of the league has ever played with such reckless abandon for his safety or for the safety of others.

kingrex · 11-17-2003, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
he's a very fiery player...i'm willing to bet that no 7'6 player in the history of the league has ever played with such reckless abandon for his safety or for the safety of others.

Who would be in the all 7'6" or taller team?

Let's see so far I've got 3 off the top of my head: Bradley, Bol & Murasan.

LRB · 11-17-2003, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: kingrex

Quote:

Originally posted by: Murphy3
he's a very fiery player...i'm willing to bet that no 7'6 player in the history of the league has ever played with such reckless abandon for his safety or for the safety of others.

Who would be in the all 7'6" or taller team?

Let's see so far I've got 3 off the top of my head: Bradley, Bol & Murasan.

Give Yao some lifts in his sneaks and he might make the team.

madape · 11-18-2003, 09:11 AM

SLAVKO VRANES is darn close too.

jacktruth · 11-18-2003, 10:05 AM

Wasn't Manute Bol like 7-7?
What about Mark Eaton?

FineCubanCigar · 11-18-2003, 12:39 PM

How many games has Bradley missed due to injury the past 3 years? he is not only a creampuff on the floor, but the past few years he has been unable to play through any type of injury. Alas, the slide will begin, this is how it always starts, every year, year after year.

Murphy3 · 11-18-2003, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: FineCubanCigar
How many games has Bradley missed due to injury the past 3 years? he is not only a creampuff on the floor, but the past few years he has been unable to play through any type of injury. Alas, the slide will begin, this is how it always starts, every year, year after year.

Since the beginning of the strike shortened season, Bradley has missed very, VERY few games because of injury. He missed several games a couple of years ago. However, the vast majority of those were dnp-coaches decision.

Murphy3 · 11-18-2003, 12:53 PM

Over the past five years plus 11 games in this season, Bradley has played in 352 of the 389 Mavs games.

Over that time, Bradley has missed less than 10-15 games because of injury. Most of the games that Bradley has missed was in the 01-02 season where Bradley only played in 53 out of a possible 82 games. Bradley wasn't missing games because of injuries. He missed the majority of the games becaue he was in Nellie's doghouse (regardless of how he performed..whether he was playing good or bad b'ball).

Even with languishing in Nellie's doghouse for a significant part of the 01-02 season, Bradley has still played in over 90% of the games over the past 5+ seasons. That does not sound like a guy that's extremely injury prone.

kingrex · 11-18-2003, 01:23 PM

Wave that Bradley banner proudly, Murphy! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/img]

madape · 11-18-2003, 02:01 PM

Bradley suffered a severely sprained MCL during the Spurs series and came back to play. You can't say the same for many players, even Dirk. Bradley's injury was so severe that he had to have surgery on it, which he is still coming back from. He knee is no where near 100% yet. The Mavericks have decided to bring him along slowly, hoping that he'll have enough to give them major minutes in the playoffs. It's been a testament to his toughness that Shawn's been able to play so much, so quickly after surgery.