Postgame: The team formerly known as Mavs vs Pacers - Page 2 - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

twistaeffect2004 · 01-12-2011, 10:00 PM

This season has changed in the blink of an eye. Ridiculously unfortunate but dems the breaks. The Butler injury is really the killer. The team was gelling so well, and Butler finally found his niche with the team. I think he was legitimately forming into that number 2 guy we had envisioned, but, no crying over spilled milk.

I know these games have been ugly, but without our two best players it's tough to expect much really. Get Dirk back, hopefully get Roddy back, and use our chips to attain a solid wingman to replace Butler and lets see if this team can develop that cohesiveness that was really evident before the injuries occurred.

sefant77 · 01-12-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hanging onto players (especially Caron) entirely because of "chemistry" is ridiculous, I hope for goodness sakes that's not actually going through their minds. In the seventh game of a playoff series, having caron on the sideline in a suit will not get them a single point.

The good thing, Caron is now MLE material in the offseason, so they can have him back easily.

So its not even about "losing" him. You lose him sitting in a suit and thats it.

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

They're going to wait until Roddy and Dirk get back and see where they stand...

I don't buy that for one second - the Mavs FO would have to be smoking crack if they aren't actively seeking a way to upgrade this team via Butler's expiring contract (a missing ingredient isn't part of the chemistry....)

The only reason I can see them waiting is if they have doubts that Roddy can make an impact this season, maybe they'd go after a SG instead of a SF... Otherwise, there's nothing to evaluate - we still need a backup PG and another forward regardless of how Dirk and Roddy feel...

sefant77 · 01-12-2011, 10:10 PM

Bucks are of course useless tonight too, thanks

BGMaverick9 · 01-12-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

I don't buy that for one second - the Mavs FO would have to be smoking crack if they aren't actively seeking a way to upgrade this team via Butler's expiring contract (a missing ingredient isn't part of the chemistry....)

The only reason I can see them waiting is if they have doubts that Roddy can be a starter this season, maybe they'd go after a SG instead of a SF... Otherwise, there's nothing to evaluate - we still need another forward and a backup PG regardless of how Dirk and Roddy feel...

I would say that second paragraph is the big thing and deserves waiting to see, right? Theoretically, different assets can be involved based on the position.

The problem with all of it now is that the bigger teams Dallas would look to deal with are remaining viable in playoff races so the value on Dallas' end WILL have to go up, basically trading Roddy.

Doing the waiting game is a natural progression but it also buys more time to hopefully have teams take a change of heart.

j0Shi · 01-12-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twistaeffect2004

I know these games have been ugly, but without our two best players it's tough to expect much really.

No excuses in this league.
I would at least expect that the remaining players go out there with the intention to show that they have the mentality to win games without Dirk. I would be fine going 2-6 without Dirk if the players would show some heart and play with intensity and toughness. But I just can't see this.

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

They're going to wait until Roddy and Dirk get back and see where they stand...

You don't have any idea what exactly they're going to do.

dude1394 · 01-12-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

You don't have any idea what exactly they're going to do.

Well more than you do I would submit.

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Hanging onto players (especially Caron) entirely because of "chemistry" is ridiculous, I hope for goodness sakes that's not actually going through their minds. In the seventh game of a playoff series, having caron on the sideline in a suit will not get them a single point.

+rep (if it would let me).

I get so sick of hearing the "what kind of message would it send to the team" mantra. What kind of message would it send? The I WANT TO WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS KIND. This is a business of winning, not a feelings factory.

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Well more than you do I would submit.

No more than any other member of the blogo-press, which is to say no more than myself.

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

I would say that second paragraph is the big thing and deserves waiting to see, right? Theoretically, different assets can be involved based on the position.

The problem with all of it now is that the bigger teams Dallas would look to deal with are remaining viable in playoff races so the value on Dallas' end WILL have to go up, basically trading Roddy.

Doing the waiting game is a natural progression but it also buys more time to hopefully have teams take a change of heart.

It also allows time for players to come off the board...

And, sure, the price of Iggy or Jackson might be higher at the moment, but those aren't the only names out there...

For example, if we could acquire Devin Harris and/or Al Harrington by facilitating the Melo trade, I'm sure as hell not waiting to evaluate a guy who's missed half of his sophomore season - I'm pulling the trigger... Of course you HAVE to wait if a deal like that doesn't come along (and it probably won't), but I'm not buying for one moment that the holdup on a trade is because we need to "evaluate" the players we already have - this team has holes to fill regardless (ain't no NBA squad winning a ring with Barea backing up Kidd!)

j0Shi · 01-12-2011, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sefant77

Bucks are of course useless tonight too, thanks

We should get comfortable to monitor teams like Utah and OKC anyway (besides the fact that every Spurs loss is a good one for sure

). 1st and 2nd is most likely gone.

DevinHarriswillstart · 01-12-2011, 10:27 PM

Cad the confrontational....BG might just be a blogger, but he offers up some good stuff for free. He also doesn't try to start crap with lots of users around here.....

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Cad the confrontational....BG might just be a blogger, but he offers up some good stuff for free. He also doesn't try to start crap with lots of users around here.....

So stating an observation is confrontational? UD echoes my thoughts, but we all know how this board works.

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

So stating an observation is confrontational? UD echoes my thoughts, but we all know how this board works.

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...

People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?

jthig32 · 01-12-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...

People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?

It could go either way. I didn't think anything of it but your history probably leads people to assume you're being harsh.

Let's just drop it, everyone. Games without Dirk are bad enough without fighting as well.

CATCH-17 · 01-12-2011, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It also allows time for players to come off the board...

And, sure, the price of Iggy or Jackson might be higher at the moment, but those aren't the only names out there...

For example, if we could acquire Devin Harris and/or Al Harrington by facilitating the Melo trade, I'm sure as hell not waiting to evaluate a guy who's missed half of his sophomore season - I'm pulling the trigger... Of course you HAVE to wait if a deal like that doesn't come along (and it probably won't), but I'm not buying for one moment that the holdup on a trade is because we need to "evaluate" the players we already have - this team has holes to fill regardless (ain't no NBA squad winning a ring with Barea backing up Kidd!)

I agree with everything here.

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Please show me where I called anyone an idiot...

People keep throwing shit out there without any basis. I wasn't confrontational at all. I simply said "you don't know what exactly they're going to do." How could that be anymore banal and subdued?

Here's an example of your superior attitude earlier in this thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Why would one think that? Dirk is an above average defender and the Mavs are a much better defensive team with him on the court.

Defense: Pts per 100 Poss.

101.4 On Court

106.7 Off Court

-5.3

One would be better served to know what they're talking about beore posting.

You made a great point, but that last line was just arrogant - no need to talk down to people just because you know something they don't... You took an opportunity to educate someone and turned it into an insult (yet you wonder why people dislike you...)

Can't you disagree without making it personal?

BGMaverick9 · 01-12-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

It also allows time for players to come off the board...

And, sure, the price of Iggy or Jackson might be higher at the moment, but those aren't the only names out there...

For example, if we could acquire Devin Harris and/or Al Harrington by facilitating the Melo trade, I'm sure as hell not waiting to evaluate a guy who's missed half of his sophomore season - I'm pulling the trigger... Of course you HAVE to wait if a deal like that doesn't come along (and it probably won't), but I'm not buying for one moment that the holdup on a trade is because we need to "evaluate" the players we already have - this team has holes to fill regardless (ain't no NBA squad winning a ring with Barea backing up Kidd!)

In my opinion, Dallas needs to get some major financial relief to taking on Harrington's deal. There was a line the Mavericks weren't wanting to cross in the summer with Harrington...Denver went beyond that and Dallas balked. Giving up their best long-term asset to get Harris and a bloated contract doesn't necessarily seem a fit, it's going to take someone eating nasty contracts. The problem with that then is the Mavericks only really have two "bad" contracts: Marion and Haywood. I don't see why Denver would want to deal with that...you'll have to find a foolish team in that instance, which I guess is possible.

With that scenario, I'm not even sure Roddy and Butler is enough to make it work. Portland has pieces that intrigue Denver and I have a feeling they move to the top of the list.

If the bodies that are still viable to get healthy actually do that and they make a move, I don't see the Mavericks doing a "superstar move."

chumdawg · 01-12-2011, 11:01 PM

Well, I guess the wheels have fallen off this thing.

Usually Lurkin · 01-12-2011, 11:02 PM

too late to tank the season for a draft pick?

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

In my opinion, Dallas needs to get some major financial relief to taking on Harrington's deal. There was a line the Mavericks weren't wanting to cross in the summer with Harrington...Denver went beyond that and Dallas balked.

Butler was healthy back then - things are a little different now...

I'm not going to debate the rest of it because the Harris/Harrington idea was purely hypothetical - the point I was trying to make is that there are probably several players the Mavs would be interested in that could be moved before we have enough time to evaluate Roddy...

LonghornDub · 01-12-2011, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

But I wasn't confrontational about it.

You make good points, but you act all superior when you do...

Can't it ever be, "I disagree" instead of "I disagree because you're an idiot"?

Whatever, kid.

BGMaverick9 · 01-12-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Butler was healthy back then - things are a little different now...

I'm not going to debate the rest of it because the Harris/Harrington idea was purely hypothetical - the point I was trying to make is that there are probably several players the Mavs would be interested in that could be moved before we have enough time to evaluate Roddy...

I agree with that Butler thought, but I think there is still a line the Mavericks won't cross and Harrington feels over the line unless other parts are involved.

It's just a situation we will have to wait and see what happens. I still think making a move within the next 2-3 weeks still creates a disadvantage in terms of negotiation for the Mavericks.

xavier · 01-12-2011, 11:18 PM

speachless....We've gotta get some help and now

Popeye · 01-12-2011, 11:20 PM

These games are exposing problems the Mavs already knew existed, but with Dirk they were able to overcome and still get the wins. We all knew the bench was consistently giving up leads. We all knew JJB had a horrible on/off court impact on the game. We all knew there wasn't a consistent 2nd scorer. Now that they're feeling the pain, i wonder if they'll make any changes.

dude1394 · 01-12-2011, 11:27 PM

I just don't see how harrington does that much for the team..They are pretty desperate for a 3.

fluid.forty.one · 01-12-2011, 11:29 PM

once a jerk, always a jerk.

I miss Dirk

jcm28 · 01-12-2011, 11:40 PM

How long till iguodala gets here?

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

I just don't see how harrington does that much for the team..They are pretty desperate for a 3.

I concur. I'm not huge on Al. He'd bring nice depth to the 4, but he's too slow for the 3. Of course he could always see some minutes at the 4 with Dirk at the 5 (he did play center under Nellie at times, but then again, who didn't?) If a nice trade came along for Al, I'd do it. But obviously I'd prefer a guy like Iggy, Jax, Melo (not gonna happen), Crash.

CadBane · 01-12-2011, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Here's an example of your superior attitude earlier in this thread:

You made a great point, but that last line was just arrogant - no need to talk down to people just because you know something they don't... You took an opportunity to educate someone and turned it into an insult (yet you wonder why people dislike you...)

Can't you disagree without making it personal?

Yes, I could have been less sarcastic there...though I don't consider that post to be analogous to calling one an idiot. It was more a sarcastic jab at a rather foolish post. However, that wasn't the post in question. The one in response to BG was, in which I was no way confrontational. And please, lets get off the pedestal. Don't act like you and dozens of other posters here don't make sarcastic, often times insulting posts in response to others. I can provide examples of instances far more egregious than mine above.

Underdog · 01-12-2011, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CadBane

Yes, I could have been less sarcastic there...though I don't consider that post to be analogous to calling one an idiot. It was more a sarcastic jab at a rather foolish post. However, that wasn't the post in question. The one in response to BG was, in which I was no way confrontational. And please, lets get off the pedestal. Don't act like you and dozens of other posters here don't make sarcastic, often times insulting posts in response to others. I can provide examples of instances far more egregious than mine above.

Do it.

SMC0007 · 01-13-2011, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Underdog

Do it.

Well, he could probably copy and paste one of my negative rep comments.

Cad you claim to be intelligent but you keep coming around here, making the same mistakes. Why? Somehow other people aren't getting banned. It's either you don't care to make any friends here or you don't understand whats going wrong. You can't be oblivious to this and intelligent at the same time. I don't understand the concept of really wanting to come here and just make enemies.

bernardos70 · 01-13-2011, 12:36 AM

The team just looks like it is waiting for Dirk to come back, save for a couple of players. You can easily tell who is up to what.

SMC0007 · 01-13-2011, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bernardos70

The team just looks like it is waiting for Dirk to come back, save for a couple of players. You can easily tell who is up to what.

It's just hard to watch. I know we're not in the business of losing games here but if I'd liked to have seen DJ play a bit more tonight. Especially given Ricks comments after the game, which were something about "with guys down everyones live..." as if there is opportunity to snag some playing time, which was one reason why Alexi started and logged more minutes. He said he has been playing well in practice.

BGMaverick9 · 01-13-2011, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

It's just hard to watch. I know we're not in the business of losing games here but if I'd liked to have seen DJ play a bit more tonight.

DJ has a long way to go, he was a nice surge in that Cleveland game but he's still a project player.

jcm28 · 01-13-2011, 12:47 AM

The thought of Dirk's retirement date terrorizes the **** out of me.

SMC0007 · 01-13-2011, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

DJ has a long way to go, he was a nice surge in that Cleveland game but he's still a project player.

Yes obviously, I'm just saying when things are stagnant toss him out there see if he can provide a spark. If not roll KIdd or JJ back out.

BGMaverick9 · 01-13-2011, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SMC0007

Yes obviously, I'm just saying when things are stagnant toss him out there see if he can provide a spark. If not roll KIdd or JJ back out.

Off of the small glimpses I see, it looks like he's still just got a ways to go before he can really be trusted.