Why GP and Malone going to LA isn't that bad - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Nash13 · 07-04-2003, 11:46 PM

You people don't realize that this type of thing could work to our advantage. Here's some reasons why:

1. Malone doesn't fit into their style of play, he's not healthy enough to keep going in the paint, so he just looks for the jump shot.

2. Egos wouldn't be able to be managed on a richter scale. Payton's ppg will go down, Shaq's touches will go down, Malone's rebounding and points will go down, and Kobe's effeciency will go down. You can't have 4 hall of famers in your starting lineup.

3. This line up will only be good for one year. Kobe's leaving next year, and Malone will retire.

4. This kinda goes back to #2, Malone won't be able to pass the all time scoring record. You can't have 2 ball hogs on one team.

5. If we sign Morning, the West would be more Wide open than ever.

6. The Lakers need depth b/c besides Kobe and maybe GP, the others can't play a lot of minutes

Lakers Lineup

Payton/Fisher/Shaw
Kobe/Rush
Fox/George
Malone/Madsen/Walker
Shaq/Slavo

Dallas Lineup

Nash/NVE
Finley/Bell
Williams/Howard/Mladen?
Dirk/Lafrentz/Horry(1.5mil Exception)?
Mourning/Bradley/Esch

Sacramento Lineup

Bibby/Jackson
Christie/Jackson
Peja/Turk/Wallace
Webber/Pollard
Divac/Clark

Kidd/Claxton/Kerr Parker's gonna be gone
Jackson/Ginobili
Bowen/???
Duncan/Ferry/
???/Rose/Bateer

Mandyahl · 07-04-2003, 11:50 PM

but...the lakers were able to win three championships with basically just kobe and shaq. if they get a pg and a power forward that can actually do something, then they are hands down favorites to win, imo.

ClipFan · 07-05-2003, 12:12 AM

You are exactly right Mandy, they will definitely be the team to beat if they are somehow able to land both of those guys.

Nash13 · 07-05-2003, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Nash13
3. This line up will only be good for one year. Kobe's leaving next year, and Malone will retire.

They can't win more than one championship when Kobe leaves and Malone wants to leave or retires.

I mean, this would be a good lineup, but i don't think they would have that much of an advantage over DAL, SAS, & SAC.

Mandyahl · 07-05-2003, 01:32 AM

is kobe really gonna leave the year after they win a championship?

Nash13 · 07-05-2003, 01:38 AM

Mandy, the way i see it, he'd rather go to see if he can get paid more, b/c Shaq's sucking up a lot of cap, and to see if he can win elsewhere. Minnesota, Miami, Washington?

Mandyahl · 07-05-2003, 01:39 AM

maybe. but if they win a championship and shaq plays well, then shaq still has a few good years in him, so kobe might want to stay with what works.

ClipFan · 07-05-2003, 05:36 AM

Well I am no braniac when it comes to the CBA but I am pretty sure no matter what, the Lakers can offer Kobe more money than any team in the league can simply because he has his birds rights with the Lakers or something like that. It's definitely not about which team can offer him the most money, the Lakers have had an offer on the table with Kobe for a couple years now, at the max they are allowed to offer which is much more than any other team can offer him. I think he is becoming a FA because there is a chance the offer can be raised after next because of something in the CBA changing or something. Kobe is not going anywhere, he will probably retire as a Laker.

Mandyahl · 07-05-2003, 10:52 AM

also, if he waits until next year, that just adds another year onto his contract. but i agree, he will most lilkely stay with the lakers.

kg_veteran · 07-05-2003, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Nash13
You people don't realize that this type of thing could work to our advantage. Here's some reasons why:

1. Malone doesn't fit into their style of play, he's not healthy enough to keep going in the paint, so he just looks for the jump shot.

Do you know what their style of play is? They put big men in the post and use them as passers. I think Malone would fit perfectly in their scheme.

Quote:

2. Egos wouldn't be able to be managed on a richter scale. Payton's ppg will go down, Shaq's touches will go down, Malone's rebounding and points will go down, and Kobe's effeciency will go down. You can't have 4 hall of famers in your starting lineup.

If Malone is wililng to come for the 1.5 and Payton is willing to come for the MLE, they're coming for a reason. Egos won't be a problem, because they have one goal in mind.

Quote:

3. This line up will only be good for one year. Kobe's leaving next year, and Malone will retire.

What makes you think Kobe's leaving? Jim Gray's "report" during the NBA draft? Gray just repeated what Kobe said in 2001. It wasn't some shocking revelation. He only wants to opt out of his contract to feed his ego a bit, and then he'll return to LA for max money. Kobe's not going anywhere. He is a Laker for life. Mark that down.

Quote:

4. This kinda goes back to #2, Malone won't be able to pass the all time scoring record. You can't have 2 ball hogs on one team.

Again, if Malone agrees to go to LA for the 1.5, he knows all that it entails. And what makes you think he can't get the record in LA? He could play for 3 more years with ease.

Quote:

5. If we sign Morning, the West would be more Wide open than ever.

Really? I'll take a lineup of Shaq/Malone/Fox/Bryant/Payton over any lineup in the West. They'd be better than San Antonio and Sacramento inside, and better than the Mavs outside.

Quote:

6. The Lakers need depth b/c besides Kobe and maybe GP, the others can't play a lot of minutes

They'll have enough depth to get by. Fisher, Rush, George, Madsen, and Medvedenko will be enough with that starting lineup.

Evilmav2 · 07-05-2003, 11:44 AM

This kinda goes back to #2, Malone won't be able to pass the all time scoring record. You can't have 2 ball hogs on one team.

Malone only needs to average 12.6 ppg over the next two years to win that record. Barring catastrophic injury, nothing will stop him from winning it, regardless of where he is playing...

mattyd · 07-05-2003, 12:21 PM

Good point Evil - Malone knows the record is his. I could see him signing with the Lakers for his ring.

The front court of Malone and Shaq is scary...they'd be much better than they were this year. We just gotta hope that Kobe becomes even more of a ball hog!
[img]i/expressions/beer.gif[/img]

Just211 · 07-05-2003, 10:31 PM

PPG last year for LA

Kobe 30
SHAQ 27.5
fisher 10.5
fox 9
george 6.9

Payton 20.4
Malone 20.6

that looks like a great boost in scoring, BUT whose going to give up touches? I can see ShaQ giving up some, but do you honestly think Kobe will? If they are all unselfish, the Lakers will be untouchable, BUT(and a big But) do you think all 4 will be unselfish?

And IMO, if they come together, I see the whole team revolting against Kobe around the all star break. He's too much of a ME First kinda player

Mandyahl · 07-05-2003, 11:24 PM

yes, there might be an implosion with all the egos on that team. but there is enough talent there that they might be able to win even if they all are hating each others guts. that is not a team i would like to face.

MavKikiNYC · 07-06-2003, 12:31 PM

This is not 'bad' for the Mavericks, rather it will be cataclysmic.

If Malone and Payton take less money to go to the Lakers to try to play for a championship, I don't see that their egos are going to get in the way. Malone will be sacrificing money and most likely a chance at an all-time scoring record in order to play for a championship, and both he and Payton will get plenty of credit for their contributions given that the Lakers fell WAY short last year.

If these moves materialize for the Lakers, Mavericks will fall at least one seeing, and they won't even be able to console themselves (and others) with a vanity title for most team wins.

ocelot_ark · 07-06-2003, 02:50 PM

No way Malone goes to play for LA. If there's one thing that I've respected about Karl, it's that he's no sell out. If he goes to the Lakers, he's selling out. The Lakers HAVE to be the team he hates the most, no? How could he NOT hate the Lakers? He'd be better off anywhere than LA.

I think that all this is a ploy to get him more attention from the teams he really wants to go to, Dallas/SA/maybe more money from Utah.

Nash13 · 07-07-2003, 10:16 PM

I just thought of something, one reason that i don't think Malone would go to LA is b/c of it's location. He's not a guy that like the big city, he'd much prefer living in the countryside, something LA can't offer.

Mandyahl · 07-07-2003, 11:55 PM

i don't think that significantly affects his decision. if he decides la is the best place to win a championship, he will go there regardless of whether there is countryside near la.

Nash13 · 07-08-2003, 02:39 AM

Mandy it's not that simple b/c the players will spend most of their time in the home-town that his team plays in. So it's like, can he live the kind of lifestyle that Kobe, Shaq, and the rest of the Lakers live for 2 seasons?

OutletPass · 07-08-2003, 07:59 PM

Sorry "The Nash" but you're just dead wrong....

The Lakers will be too mean with GP and Malone.

This is just horrible...and you're banking on a fantasy to think they won't be a terror to deal with.
unfortunately, GP and Malone showed that they still have it last season.

DNNF · 07-08-2003, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark
No way Malone goes to play for LA. If there's one thing that I've respected about Karl, it's that he's no sell out. If he goes to the Lakers, he's selling out. The Lakers HAVE to be the team he hates the most, no? How could he NOT hate the Lakers? He'd be better off anywhere than LA.

I think that all this is a ploy to get him more attention from the teams he really wants to go to, Dallas/SA/maybe more money from Utah.

Didn't Malone already said that he will play for the Lakers if the Lakers signed GP? If he didn't hold to his word, he would be a coward. but then he would be a sellout if he did.

MFFL · 07-08-2003, 09:33 PM

Malone also said that he would return to Utah for the same salary that Stockton got last season.

Drbio · 07-08-2003, 09:38 PM

OP is right here folks. If Malone goes to LA they are the odds on favorites. They will be tougher than hell to beat. And in a 7 game series they will be almost impossible to dispatch.

OutletPass · 07-08-2003, 11:10 PM

Quote:

OP is right here folks

Thanks Doc....

Unfortunately 13 is just dead f*ing wrong.

I'm just praying that we do something to counteract this...my PM's are going crazy with people who feel the same way.

one long blue sock · 07-08-2003, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Just211
PPG last year for LA

Kobe 30
SHAQ 27.5
fisher 10.5
fox 9
george 6.9

Payton 20.4
Malone 20.6

that looks like a great boost in scoring,

Well lets not forget these fun facts
PAYTON
Selected to the NBA All-Defensive First Team eight consecutive seasons (1994-2001)
Named Defensive Player of the Year in 1996 and was the first guard to win the award since Michael

MALONE
Three-time NBA All-Defensive First Team selection (1996-97, 1997-98 and 1998-99) and a 1987-88 NBA All-Defensive Second Team selection

PLUS BRYANT
Selected to the 2001-2002 All-Defensive Second Team, 2.21 spg

O'NEAL
Two-time NBA All-Defensive Second Team selection (1999-2000, 2000-01), 2.37 bpg

So its not just going to be domination on the offensive end, all of the players in their starting 5 are really good defenders.

Mandyahl · 07-08-2003, 11:56 PM

good point, sock.

happy to see you are back. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 12:05 AM

Thank you, I'm a bit unclear how this FA thing is going with LA though.

Isnt the FA signing starting on the 16, or is it the 16th. Well if it isn't then are they just saying they are going to go to LA, maybe they will change their minds. Probably not, but you might as well be optimistic.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 12:06 AM

yeah, they can't officially sign until the 16th, but payton has verbally committed to la and it has been all over the news, so it would look really bad if be backed out now.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: OutletPass

Quote:

OP is right here folks

Thanks Doc....

Unfortunately 13 is just dead f*ing wrong.

I'm just praying that we do something to counteract this...my PM's are going crazy with people who feel the same way.

Once again, you seem to over-analyze what i say. I'm not saying they wouldn't be good, i just don't see them being dominating like you all see.

I'm just not looking at four guys out of 12, i'm looking at their bench, i'm looking at their future, i'm looking at their egos. This is not a dynasty team. I wish that you people would see the big picture.

Suppose Dallas got Malone and Gary Payton, and then traded NVE for a quality forward or center, i guarantee you that most of the analysis wouldn't be calling Dallas the favorites, even though they would have a better starting 5, and bench.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 12:24 AM

How can you say that they wouldn't be a dynasty, they were basically a dynasty any way 3 championships in 3 years, though they had holes at 1 and 4, and oops they got filled by the best defensive pg, 2nd best pg in the league, and the 2nd leading scorer in NBA history.

They get better in nearly every aspect, unless you feel Fisher/Maden is better then Payton/Malone, do you?

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 12:25 AM

they won't be a dynasty in the true sense of the word because they will only be together for a couple of years. but they will be very, very hard to contend with for those years.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 12:31 AM

Thank you, but i can't see them losing until Kobe leaves, Malone dies of old age, and Shaq's big toe gets an unfriendly visit from a falling James Lang.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 12:32 AM

all or some of which could very well happen in the next 1-2 years.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 12:55 AM

after next season, or the season after next, what's next? All the good players will be signed to max deals, Shaq, Malone, and Payton will be old, Kobe could be gone. That's it for the Lakers.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 12:58 AM

So that is 5 rings out of 6 years, sounds like a pretty good acomplishment to me. Bulls were called a dynasty with 6 out of 8.

Mandyahl · 07-09-2003, 12:59 AM

ok, you may have a point there. but the fact remains, the lakers are going to be a very, very formidable opponent for the next couple of years.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: one long blue sock
So that is 5 rings out of 6 years, sounds like a pretty good acomplishment to me. Bulls were called a dynasty with 6 out of 8.

The only reason Bulls didn't win all 8 is b/c Jordan was gone for 2yrs, also there's still not guarantee that the Lakers will win the next 1 or 2 rings.

one long blue sock · 07-09-2003, 01:27 AM

Yes, i was informed that Jordan went of and played baseball for awile, like the rest of the world.
But that didn't change the fact that they didn't win it those years.

Which team do you suspect can beat a line-up like the Lakers.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 01:49 AM

Hmmmmm........A healthy Kings, a free agent happy Spurs, a Healthy Zo Mavs with a little more FAs.

BTW, I apologize if seems like i'm singling out just you two.

Nash13 · 07-09-2003, 01:57 AM

Also think about it this way:

Can a team with four 1st teir player with eight 3rd teir players beat 2 or 3 teams with two 1st teir players, eight 2nd teir players, and two 3rd teir players?

Kinda confusing, but it'll make sense if you read it twice, lol.