I'm going to laugh.....

[Drbio]

When the Lakers fall out of the playoffs again without winning the title. Karl Malone made an incredible gesture in my opinion to take less $$$ for a title shot. An incredible gesture. Nice to see a guy put his money where his mouth is. However, when he is sitting next to a crying bunch of Lakers after an early playoff exit, I will be laughing my rear off.

Bookmark this thread. It will happen.

[nowitzki_prophecy]

i'll be right there with ya,doc.

[Ummmmm Ok]

Well we all know that the Lakers have Shaq and Kobe and have now signed Payton and Malone but how about this person playing in their summer league. Maybe you have heard of him: [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Los Angeles Lakers
## Player FG 3PT FT PTS OR DR TR F A TO B S MIN
1 Jannero Pargo 8/17 2/6 6/6 24 1 3 4 5 5 3 0 3 37:21
4 Richard Jeter 0/1 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 6:39
9 Bennett Davison 4/5 0/0 3/3 11 0 2 2 2 2 2 0 1 20:46
10 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 3/5 0/0 0/2 6 1 1 2 1 3 1 0 0 14:07
12 Eric Chenowith 2/4 0/0 3/6 7 1 0 1 5 2 4 0 0 21:37
21 Kareem Rush 4/17 2/6 4/4 14 1 2 3 1 2 0 0 0 37:51
23 Luke Walton 4/4 0/0 1/2 9 1 5 6 2 4 6 0 1 27:13
34 Brian Cook 7-15 0/2 2/2 16 5 2 7 3 2 2 2 1 31:41
42 Stephane Pelle 3/4 0/0 1/2 7 1 3 4 2 0 1 0 0 16:18
22 Leon Smith 1/5 0/0 1/2 3 2 5 7 3 1 2 0 2 26:53

[LakerMania]

Hey it could happen, but I have a feeling that if the Lakers do go on a wild tear start dominating the league, some of the same ppl that predicted a Laker implode are going to start screaming, "Conspiracy!! Stern put 4 HOFs on one team, guaranteeing a championship for increased ratings!". Hypocritically I might add, since bringing in Payton and Malone was such an obvious mix for disaster. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

[nowitzki_prophecy]

look,its clear the lakers are favorites for the title,but i got a good feeling about this.
i do think that the Mavs in full force are better,no matter how GP and Malone play,i think its up to us.

[one long blue sock]

Well this past year Payton had more assists(in the first half) then he has ever before. So i think he will be a little more willing to pass.

Malone only has to get 12 points a game, and i think he realizes it.


This is also a very talented DEFENSIVE team... Yes the Blazers are corupt, and it might happen to the Lakers. But this years Lakers are much better then the Blazers anyway.

I don't see them flopping at all.

[jayC]

Hello. Its not that incredible one he is hanging off the coattails of Shaq two he already made all of his money earlier in his career so thats not really a sacrafice. Im sorry but malone's gesture is jut fake deep.

THey will win the title woopee. The nets and the lakers again a 10 rating gah what a yawner that series was!

[Chiwas]

I'm going to laugh all along the season watching Shaq carrying not only Kobe, but now also Payton and Malone.

[Joe57/3]

I think that you guys should be realistic. These are the matchups next year:

Nash - Payton
Payton gets the advantage, more assists, much better defense

Finley - Bryant
Kobe is a top 5 player, Finley top 20. Advantage Kobe.

Scrub-Scrub
push unless George lives up to his contract

Nowitzki - Malone
Advantage to Nowitzki but not by that much. Malone can still score and play D. Dirk is a better rebounder.

LaFrentz - O'Neal
This is a joke, Shaq is still the most dominant player in the league.

6th Man
Van Exel - Fisher
Nick clearly outclasses Fisher.

Coach
Nellie - Phil
I love Nellie but the key numbers in this case are 9-0 as in championships.


The Lakers could be the best passing and best defensive team of all time. They will get at least 65 wins for sure, even if one is injured much of the year.

[veruca salt]

I just want to know what the Lakers are going to be bringing off the bench?
Sure they're starting 5 is going to be awesome...but aging. Surely the Lakers have problems
with depth?

[Rod1975]

Originally posted by: Ummmmm Ok
Well we all know that the Lakers have Shaq and Kobe and have now signed Payton and Malone but how about this person playing in their summer league. Maybe you have heard of him: [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

Los Angeles Lakers
## Player FG 3PT FT PTS OR DR TR F A TO B S MIN
1 Jannero Pargo 8/17 2/6 6/6 24 1 3 4 5 5 3 0 3 37:21
4 Richard Jeter 0/1 0/0 0/0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 6:39
9 Bennett Davison 4/5 0/0 3/3 11 0 2 2 2 2 2 0 1 20:46
10 Kareem Abdul Jabbar 3/5 0/0 0/2 6 1 1 2 1 3 1 0 0 14:07
12 Eric Chenowith 2/4 0/0 3/6 7 1 0 1 5 2 4 0 0 21:37
21 Kareem Rush 4/17 2/6 4/4 14 1 2 3 1 2 0 0 0 37:51
23 Luke Walton 4/4 0/0 1/2 9 1 5 6 2 4 6 0 1 27:13
34 Brian Cook 7-15 0/2 2/2 16 5 2 7 3 2 2 2 1 31:41
42 Stephane Pelle 3/4 0/0 1/2 7 1 3 4 2 0 1 0 0 16:18
22 Leon Smith 1/5 0/0 1/2 3 2 5 7 3 1 2 0 2 26:53

Is that the Kung-fu master himself or just a namesake?

Check out the guy at the bottom of the roster......will he or won't he?

[Chiwas]

Originally posted by: Joe57/3
I think that you guys should be realistic....

The Lakers could be the best passing and best defensive team of all time. They will get at least 65 wins for sure, even if one is injured much of the year.

The Lakers sank last season trying to hold Kobe's ego. They will have a terrible season next one trying to hold Kobe's (to be worsened more, yet), Payton's, and -believe it or not- Malone's egos.

Edit: Not to mention a more fragile Shaq's toe.

[Nash13]

It's kinda hard to believe all the egos can co-exist. And don't give me that crap about them taking a paycut. It's not always money that builds egos, it's media hype and career numbers that do it. And they may miss both of those when they're not in the spotlight.

[LakerMania]

Originally posted by: Chiwas

They will have a terrible season next one .....

So many bookmarks, so little time.

[one long blue sock]

Originally posted by: Nash13
It's kinda hard to believe all the egos can co-exist. And don't give me that crap about them taking a paycut. It's not always money that builds egos, it's media hype and career numbers that do it. And they may miss both of those when they're not in the spotlight.

Malone doesn't have to get alot of numbers to be in good shape for career numbers, just 12 a game.

[Chiwas]

Originally posted by: LakerMania

So many bookmarks, so little time.

I used the index, it's quick [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img].

[kg_veteran]

Nobody's ready to hand them the trophy just yet, but they do have to be considered favorites at this point.

[Mavs_Rule2003]

Originally posted by: Joe57/3
I think that you guys should be realistic. These are the matchups next year:

Nash - Payton
Payton gets the advantage, more assists, much better defense

Finley - Bryant
Kobe is a top 5 player, Finley top 20. Advantage Kobe.

Scrub-Scrub
push unless George lives up to his contract

Nowitzki - Malone
Advantage to Nowitzki but not by that much. Malone can still score and play D. Dirk is a better rebounder.

LaFrentz - O'Neal
This is a joke, Shaq is still the most dominant player in the league.

6th Man
Van Exel - Fisher
Nick clearly outclasses Fisher.

Coach
Nellie - Phil
I love Nellie but the key numbers in this case are 9-0 as in championships.


The Lakers could be the best passing and best defensive team of all time. They will get at least 65 wins for sure, even if one is injured much of the year.

1) Nash -payton

I think Nash will be better in assists in here rather than payton. And nash got more quickness and shoot the ball better (right now) than payton. Payton would get to shoot lot less in lakers than he had in sonics. i would say neck to neck here.

2) Fin - bryant

ofcourse kobe is top 5 in the league. But kobe historically having trouble with dallas gurading him with griff and raja. i think we can show him some stars again with raja and josh. but no doubt in paper kobe is better.

3) scrub- scrub

i would say neck to neck here to, but if that is najera and he is playing with the way he is playing, then we are ok.

4) Dirk - malone

ofcourse dirk. i dont think malone can eve do anything with him. Ya may be better in defensive way. but dirk better shooter and rebounder thatn malone (ofcourse right now.)

5) raef - shaq

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

[asola]

I agree with those who think the Lakers are the favorites. But Dallas needs to do something, they're not going to beat neither the Lakers nor the Spurs -upgraded with a nice enough center- without changes. I'd say the same for Sacto.

Next year's conference finals between Lakers and Spurs should be pretty interesting but the Lakers will prevail in the end, methinks.

[Chiwas]

Lakers will be doomed if history repeats itself

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Frank Hughes
Special to ESPN.com


In 1802, Thomas Jefferson commissioned Meriwether Lewis to lead a party across then undiscovered America in order to, among many things, chart a route to the West. For four years, Lewis was literally king of his domain, which at the time consisted of the Western two-thirds of the United States. When he returned to civilization in 1806, Lewis was the toast of the town -- well, what there was of a town back then. He was hailed as a hero, a visionary, a pioneer.

Soon thereafter, though, Lewis discovered what Dennis Rodman is now encountering: That fame is fleeting, that appreciation is short-lived, and that once you are out of the spotlight, nobody really cares. Lewis descended into depression, alcohol abuse, drug use and ultimately committed suicide in 1809, three short years after he was universally recognized as a history-maker.

My point is this: Lewis's tragedy happened after he had become accustomed to being in charge and then praised for only four years. Karl Malone was Utah's Meriwether Lewis for 18 years; Gary Payton was Seattle's Meriwether Lewis for 12½ years; and Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant have been L.A's Lewis and Clark for seven years, and it admittedly took them some time to work on and work out their natural differences.

That's almost 45 years worth of seriously intense ego. What's going to happen when they all come together?

In a town where sycophantic adulation is in great abundance, there still is only so much that can be bestowed upon one basketball team. And so while the rest of the world is preparing the coronation parade for the Lakers for the fourth time in five years, I remain, well, somewhat skeptical.

This is not to say that the Lakers can't or won't win yet another title. Their talent is vast.

But it is to suggest that there are many, many, many, many, many issues on this team that will need to be addressed before we begin to consider the absurdity of an 82-0 season.


First and foremost are the egos. It's easy to say that each player is going to subjugate his personality for the sake of the team, but we heard that before and saw the result in Portland. Just going by statistics, Shaq has averaged 27.6 points and 19 shots a game over his career; Kobe has averaged 21.5 points and 17 shots a game, though he averaged 24 shots a game last season when Shaq was injured; Malone has averaged 25.4 points and 18 shots a game; and Payton has averaged 18.3 points and 16 shots a game. That is a combined average of 92.8 points and 71 shots a game for a team that averaged 100 points and 83 shots a game last year. Somebody is going to have to decrease their production, but all four are accustomed to being the primary focus of their respective offenses. And this comes at a time that Shaq said the Lakers did not four-peat because they went away from going to him in the post, and at a time that Kobe has consistently increased his shot and scoring production in each season.


It also comes at a time that Malone is in hot pursuit of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's scoring title. Malone, with 36,374 points, is currently 2,013 points behind Kareem's total of 38,387, which means that to get the scoring title next season, he has to average 24.5 points a game. That, on this team, is not going to happen, so Malone basically is setting back his pursuit of the scoring title by perhaps a year, maybe more. How long will it take that fact to dawn on Malone?


Phil Jackson is, of course, supposed to be the steadying hand in this. Jackson is successful because he is able to set a pecking order, of sorts, among his players, but is able to place a firm hand on his stars when it becomes necessary. Are Payton and Malone really going to respond to Jackson's head games? Let me paint a picture: I have a Gary Payton talking bobblehead in my home office, and when I press it a fourth time this is what it says: "Hey rookie, grab a notepad, cause you're about to get took to school." This is not so much to make fun of Payton's grammatically incorrect verbiage as it is to point out that there will be a stark dichotomy the first time that Jackson tries to hand Payton a book on the finer points of existentialism and how it relates to teamwork.

How long will it take Malone to get irked that Kobe comes off the pick and shoots every time rather than hitting Malone on the roll?


These players have histories, and not all of it is good. The most glaring problem is between Malone and Kobe. Let's not forget that in the 1997-98 All-Star Game, coached by George Karl, Malone was extremely miffed that Kobe waved Malone away in a pick-and-roll situation. Malone went so far as to say that he was considering boycotting future All-Star games because if he was getting sent away on one of the most basic plays in the game, then maybe the All-Star game had passed him by. It makes me wonder how Malone and Kobe are going to fit into a triangle offense that doesn't run a great deal of pick-and-rolls. And even if it does run more than it usually does, how long will it take Malone to get irked that Kobe comes off the pick and shoots every time rather than hitting Malone on the roll?


Shaq and Malone admit that they didn't particularly like each other until the 1996 Olympics. As the story goes, both were the only Olympians who would lift weights every day. They each came into the weight room and lifted at opposite ends, never talking to one another. One day, Shaq opened a dialogue, and both said they have a better understanding of one another now. We'll see.


Payton and Bryant have had verbal confrontations during games. On Dec. 11, 2001, at the end of a Sonics' blowout victory in Los Angeles, Payton and Bryant stood at halfcourt. Payton, who scored 29 points in the game while holding Bryant to 7-for-23 shooting, approached Bryant and began chirping loudly into his ear. Bryant, never one to back down, got nose to nose with Payton and began talking back. Teammates and officials had to calm down both players before things escalated. "He is a little bigger," Payton said at the time, "but I am feisty." I also thought it was telling that while at the ESPYs Wednesday night, Payton said that he had not yet spoken to Kobe about joining the team -- though, to be sure, Kobe has had some other stuff to think about lately.


And finally, while I know it's hard to believe, Payton and Malone have a contentious history. In a May 3, 2001 playoff game between the Sonics and Jazz, won by Seattle, here is an account of the completion of the game:

By the end, what once was mutual respect had turned into disdain, with Karl Malone walking off the court after getting ejected, shouting at Seattle point guard Gary Payton, "See you in Utah."

"Payton -- who recorded the first playoff triple-double of his career with 35 points, 11 assists, 10 rebounds and six steals -- continued to taunt Malone as only Payton can, mocking Malone by yelling, "I'm scared." It drew Malone out of the tunnel and back onto the court to confront Payton.

Teammates from both sides intervened before a melee broke out, but the tone unquestionably has been set for Game 5, to be played in Utah.

Payton stuck the knife in a little further, though, when he made an unnecessary shot at the buzzer to send the crowd into a frenzy and Utah home wondering how its lead, which once seemed insurmountable, has dissipated.

"I don't want to talk about Karl," Payton said afterward. "Whatever. If it goes over to Game 5, let it go over to Game 5. But I don't want to talk about it. Whatever happens, happens."

So, just to set the record straight, Shaq and Kobe have a well-documented contentious history, Shaq and Malone have a repaired history, Kobe and Malone have a history, Kobe and Payton have a history and Payton and Malone have a history. The only contention missing is Shaq and GP.


Speaking of relationships, it makes me wonder how Kobe is going to be with his teammates and the organization at a time that he has promised to become a free agent. So let's say this thing spirals out of control, as it did in Portland, and Kobe becomes miserable. How quickly will this experiment be considered the worst of all time if the Lakers rent Malone and Payton for a year or two but lose Kobe forever? Not saying it's going to happen, but ... it could.


And then, of course, we have history as a guide, just like Meriwether Lewis. In 1968-69, the Lakers had Wilt Chamberlain, Elgin Baylor and Jerry West. No title. The next year, Chamberlain, Baylor, West and Happy Hairston. No title. The year after that, Wilt, Elgin, The Logo, Hairston and Gail Goodrich. Even without Bill Russell in the league, no title. The next year, after three seasons with Wilt, the Lakers finally win the title.

Did we mention that Malone and Payton only signed two-year deals?

[Evilmav2]

I'm going to laugh as a rapist is incarcerated, and the Lakers only have to massage three giant egos, rather than four...