Nelson is NOT the worst coach ever in the Universe, but to get a championship with him is very doubtful - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Chiwas · 01-31-2004, 06:11 PM

With that weaponry even Hussein could win a NBA championship.

(This belongs here, in the Lounge. I'll tell why later.)

mavsfanforever · 01-31-2004, 07:33 PM

I ask you the this or that question again

Will you hire Joe Crawford as your coach instead of Nellie?

Chiwas · 01-31-2004, 08:35 PM

Instead of Nellie? Course! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

(It's the intention of the thread)

u2sarajevo · 01-31-2004, 11:36 PM

It cracks me up to watch the knee jerking seemingly after every loss. I am a "homer" too, but I realize we cant go undefeated.

mavsfanforever · 02-01-2004, 01:51 AM

I have to admit Nellie is not that bad when you compare to some of the coaches in recent past in DFW area.

Dave Campo
Jerry Narron

Chiwas · 02-01-2004, 12:30 PM

This is not about knee-jerking.

Dave Campo and Jerry Narron are or were way better coaches than Nelson, and I'm saying it without knowing them.

Chiwas · 02-01-2004, 02:29 PM

I started this thread as a joke, but reading the last comments of Nellie forced me to consider this as anything but a joke.

"Finley had 25 shots, that's enough for a hot man, stop giving the ball to him cause he already had 25 attempts, no matter if the other players can't score and the rival is winning us after our 20 points lead".

This coach never, never, never, will win a title.

Drbio · 02-01-2004, 05:43 PM

This thread rates right up there with swedish animal sex.

good grief.

mavsfanforever · 02-01-2004, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas
This is not about knee-jerking.

Dave Campo and Jerry Narron are or were way better coaches than Nelson, and I'm saying it without knowing them.

You would not say it if you knew them.

Dave Campo- Cowboys head coach for 3 miserable seasons of 5-11.

Jerry Narron - Rangers head coach a season ago.

EricaLubarsky · 02-02-2004, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Nelson is the worst coach ever in Earth's history

I dont know how many coaches were around between the big bang and the stratification of the Earth so you might as well say "worst coach ever since the big bang"

FreshJive · 02-02-2004, 02:56 AM

Well, there were other planets that formed before the Earth.

Chiwas · 02-02-2004, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
This thread rates right up there with swedish animal sex.

good grief.

Right, Nelson's philosophy about basketball matches (!) pretty well into that category.

Drbio · 02-02-2004, 12:19 PM

Don't twist my words. Anyone who calls Nellie the worst coach ever has exceeded knee jerk and gone directly into knee yank off.

Had you suffered through the franchises history like I have, you would appreciate Nellie a little more. I get very frustrated at times with Nellie's gimmicks and schemes and refusal to ride the hot guy, but to unload on him as the worst ever is laughable.

u2sarajevo · 02-02-2004, 12:25 PM

Chiwas · 02-02-2004, 12:46 PM

Hehehe, this is not about knee jerking.

When suddenly you discover something hidden by the coach in his mind, a change has to occur in yours as well. Well, it the change makes your knee jerk, then it's all about knee jerking then.

And I don't care about the past. I live the present games and I'm seeing the mistakes of the present coach.

This thread started here cause I was going to make a joke, that's why I put it in the Lounge; I didn't have time cause in the meantime Nellie made the best (worst) revelation for a board who always had asked about it without having an official clue.

Of course Nelson isn't the worst coach in... etcetera, but in any way, being in the Lounge allows me to say it and perhaps to improve the title even more.

Nelson isn't as brilliant as many think, in my opinion, if you want the serious part. The board has pointed it since months ago, claiming for obvious things, but it was just opinnions. When the truth came out of the mouth of the main protagonist, doubts are gone and the opinions turn in facts.

LRB · 02-02-2004, 01:03 PM

No fans of a team with Quinn Buckner and Jim Cleamons as past head coaches has any leg to stand on when calling Nellie the worst coach ever. I disagree with many things that Nellie does and even would like to see him replaced next year, but he's definitely been successful as a coach and is far better than most coaches. Even if he isn't exactly what this teams needs, doesn't make him a bad coach.

EricaLubarsky · 02-02-2004, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: LRB
No fans of a team with Quinn Buckner and Jim Cleamons as past head coaches has any leg to stand on when calling Nellie the worst coach ever. I disagree with many things that Nellie does and even would like to see him replaced next year, but he's definitely been successful as a coach and is far better than most coaches. Even if he isn't exactly what this teams needs, doesn't make him a bad coach.

Exactly. He may not be our championship coach and he may not be the exact right fit but he's brought a lot to this franchise. We arent the best team in the league under his coaching but we are a much better team. He has been a boon to Dallas basketball and has been a boon to the NBA in general. When he retires he will have given us many good years of coaching and its very likely that he is a hall of famer. There might be coaches out there that hypothetically could do a better job with the franchise from where it is, but frankly he took this team from an embarassment to an elite team in a couple of years.

I remind you that it isnt easy winning a championship. It's not like you have good players and you win. We've had to face teams that were absolutely phenomenal and up until this season we have been winning more in both the regular season and the post-season. If the Lakers, Spurs and Kings werent so dominant then I could blame Nellie for not winning a championship, but they exist. The Kings beat us in 2001-2002 and they were a little more than a game away from going to the finals but were knocked out by the NBA champs and then the next year we were in the same position but were eliminated by the champs as well.

We arent going to be a 60-win team this season and who knows how things will go in the playoffs but losing a couple of games is no indicator that Nelson is a poor coach. That is utter knee jerking because logically you have to be completely lacking to think that a team that is mediocre but is high in the playoff race against thise year's Lakers, Spurs, Wolves, and Kings is evidence of a bad coach.

Drbio · 02-02-2004, 03:36 PM

What people need to realize is that he MAY be a championship coach very soon. Noone is giving him any credit at all for that.

EricaLubarsky · 02-02-2004, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Drbio
What people need to realize is that he MAY be a championship coach very soon. Noone is giving him any credit at all for that.

I dont know what good giving a coach credit for "possibly in the future winning a championship" is, but Ill give it to him.

I'd much rather just give him credit for being a championship coach.

The statement "With that weaponry even Hussein could win a NBA championship." is completely off though. No one on God's green Earth could have won a championship what we have- we havent gotten to the playoffs yet and Nelson hasnt been given a chance. I dont know of many people that would have won a championship last year with last year's team and without giving Nelson a shot with this year's team I dont think we can really talk about Nelson being horrible because he can't win with this team. That has yet to be shown.

kingrex · 02-02-2004, 05:54 PM

The Mavericks franchise has never assembled a team as talented as this season's team since the late 80's. This team, assembled with the help of Don Nelson, has the best shot to-date of winning the NBA Championship. Will they win it this year? Probably not, but to discount how far Nelson has brought this team is not only wrong, but criminally so.

Under Nelson's regime, this team has become better and better every year. This is the best team he has had, and even Nelson says it is still not complete. As fans, let's give Nelson a chance to make his team complete. I don't think it is a stretch to allow Nelson the chance to fail here. All I have seen, in the big picture, is success. In fact, I'm willing to give him even until after next season to prove to me that he can't be a championship coach, but as far as I can see Nelson has been building a championship team since he arrived here.

Has he made mistakes in personnel decisions along the way? Absolutely.

Has he made coaching mistakes in games? Absolutely.

All I'm saying is, despite some mistakes in personnel or in games or even stupid quotes, overall, Nelson has improved this team every year, and you can't ask much more than that from any other coach.

Chiwas · 02-03-2004, 02:47 PM

Most of the success of the Mavs is due to Cuban, not to Nelson.

Before Cuban, Nelson was a .500 coach at best and the Mavs team neither a contender nor a pretender.

Nelson had potential and Cuban used it. The Mavs improved and we enjoyed it, but time is cruel and makes you understand that the people you're following have limits and weaknesses that can't get them farther.

My concern is that I think Nelson is incapable to win a championship, and I'm also doubting about getting the WC finals. It has nothing to do with the appreciation that I feel for him for what he has achieved till this point. But as everybody, he has limits.

(This thread should be moved to the Mavs section, since the original intention changed)

kingrex · 02-03-2004, 06:14 PM

True, Cuban's role in Nelson's success with the Mavs can not be diminished. That goes to show how important a good owner is to a team. It shows how an owner willing to spend when necessary is better than a tight-fisted, profits-at-all-cost type owner.

I guess where we disagree, is whether Nelson has shown that he can't win it all. You seem to believe that his recent comments regarding Finley's playing time (among other reasons, I'm sure) is enough to conclude that he is not the right man for the job. And I believe that despite this ill-phrased quote (or other mistakes he has made) is not enough for me to arrive at the same conclusion that you have made. I need more.

This is not say that Nelson won't eventually prove your point, but for me I need more evidence than what is already out there.

Chiwas · 02-03-2004, 10:19 PM

Good approach, kingrex.

I wonder, how many more years are necessary to know if Nellie is (was) the most appropriate option for the Mavs?

If we want to take on account the last three years and if Nelson keeps the team in a similar level for the next three of his new contract, that would be fair parameters.

But if we want him to bring a crown to Dallas, how long shall we wait for this to happen before his doomsday?

kingrex · 02-04-2004, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Chiwas

But if we want him to bring a crown to Dallas, how long shall we wait for this to happen before his doomsday?

Like I said, the first year that this team shows signs of either stagnation or regression, then a coaching change should be seriously considered.

As I said on a previous post, if Cuban asked my advice (yeah, like that's gonna happen), then I would say give him at the very least until the end of next season.