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TheKid · 03-12-2004, 05:16 PM

This is not meant to be a knock on Dirk at all, BUT, I have to say it, he has digressed on the defensive end. About a year ago, he was actually improving on the defensive end but he has completely taken a step back which he should have improved on this year with his offensive role reducing. Lastnight I was absolutely disgusted by his defense. I guess last year Raef made more of a difference defensively last year than I thought. I know Walker surely doesn't give ANY help on defense. Now granted Dirk is STILL our best offensive option but defensively he has become VERY bad. Any thoughts anyone.

grndmstr_c · 03-12-2004, 05:25 PM

I'm not sure how you can single out Dirk for his defensive shortcomings. Whole team was out of sync last night. If anything, it was our other guys who were the bigger problem because it was their assignments who were slipping underneath the bucket for uncontested layups (against Sac, since they pull your bigs out away from the basket, it's really on the guards to stick to their man).

Murphy3 · 03-12-2004, 05:26 PM

I was more disgusted by the defense for the team as a whole....dirk included.

The entire team has taken several steps back on that end of the court. Unfortunately, the whole team took a step back offensively as well (dirk included).

First off, the players deserve some blame because they are the ones not getting the job done. However, I believe a large chunk has to fall on the Nelsons and Cuban. Their personnel decisions were not sound this off season. Nellie's coaching philosophies and decisions have not been sound either.

However, when it comes to pointing the blame at one of the big three as to who's slipped the most season overall, Dirk is the man.

dirno2000 · 03-12-2004, 05:28 PM

I don't know that he's regressed. I would say he's a better perimeter defender and about the same in the low post. He has picked up a couple of disturbing habits. For instance, he's realized that he has quick hands so when he doesn't really feel like defending; he'll just let his man blow by him and try to poke the ball away. When it doesn't work, a lay-up usually follows.

ddh33 · 03-12-2004, 05:50 PM

I always thought Raef did a better job of shielding Dirk than he got credit for. His shotblocking ability and height made a huge difference and allowed Dirk to hide more on defense. This season Dirk has been forced to be more of the last line of defense. That is obviously not his strong suit, and it is constantly exposed because our guards aren't able to stop guys from penetrating.

The folly was always with the construction of this team, and there were many that said so. Most of us gave it a shot, hoping that the deficiencies would be hidden somehow in Nellie's schemes. The truth is, this group just doesn't and won't work...

Drbio · 03-12-2004, 05:54 PM

TheKid is right. Don't try ot make this into a comparison. Dirk has regressed slightly IMHO defensively. He remains the offensive horse, but he could use some improvement on the defensive side. I will say that I see flashes in him all the time that make me believe that he can become and average plus NBA defender. I'm not sure this system will encourage him to work towards that end though.

TheKid · 03-12-2004, 06:14 PM

Quote:

First off, the players deserve some blame because they are the ones not getting the job done. However, I believe a large chunk has to fall on the Nelsons and Cuban. Their personnel decisions were not sound this off season. Nellie's coaching philosophies and decisions have not been sound either.

I have to agree with this, everytime I see them line up on the court, I get mad. I NEVER liked the Walker acquisition even when he was playing well. I don't care how much people want to support him, I'm going to call a spade a spade, he's NOT that good! Actually HE should come off the bench and Jamison should start. Getting Best hurts defensively compared to Raja Bell. Losing Griffin has hurt and actually decreasing the minutes of Eddie Energy has hurt defensively as well.

I'm just saying last year, Dirk was trying to play defense but I think at times he would actually get help. However Walker doesn't give any help, Jamison flat out looks lost sometimes. As much of a veteran as Williams is, he's not that good defensively either. I NEVER thougt I would say this but Bradley is our BEST defensive big man, but HE IS!!!!

This I do know, that Zone they run is terrible, it sucks. The team needs to get some balls and play some man to man defense. I know people don't agree with me but I have not been that disappointed in the guards defense this year but it's NOT great, don't get me wrong.

The only person on the entire team who plays what I would call consistent good defense is Josh Howard.

grndmstr_c · 03-12-2004, 06:41 PM

Don't sell Best short on D. He's probably been the team's best one-on-one defensive option this season. He's got a very good plus/minus, and I think we can all agree it's not because of the way he runs the offense. As for Dirk, the only thing that I think has regressed this year is the consistency of his effort, but again, that's team wide. Beyond that the problem, quite simply, is that Dirk's game is not well suited to being the last line of defense. On a team where the guards aren't constantly allowing penetration and you have a center who can challenge and change shots without picking up tons of fouls, I think Dirk is more than capable of giving you what you need on D at the PF spot on a good defensive team.

Chiwas · 03-12-2004, 06:59 PM

Quote:

This I do know, that Zone they run is terrible, it sucks. The team needs to get some balls and play some man to man defense. I know people don't agree with me but I have not been that disappointed in the guards defense this year but it's NOT great, don't get me wrong.

The only person on the entire team who plays what I would call consistent good defense is Josh Howard.

- I have been watching carefully Dallas' zone in the last games. Our zone makes the other teams have automatic pick'n rolls constantly. I've been reading that the best way to hurt zones is making the cut to the basket. With our zone the other teams don't need to do anything but to take advantage of the constant open men. Our zone sucks terrible, yes.

- Josh Howard has been our best defender so far indeed. In the zone or man-to-man he always tries to avoid that his man runs or shoot the ball comfortably. All of the rest of the Mavs look very lazy and slow on doing this.

-About Dirk. I think the inclusion of the new guys and the subsequent hurt to the -per se fragile- system, made Dirk worsen his defense. Not about rebounding, stealing or blocking, but guarding, imo.

Dirk's stats

2003-2004
Player G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Dirk Nowitzki 59 59 38.2 .453 .328 .878 1.20 7.30 8.50 2.8 1.25 1.31 1.80 2.70 21.3

2002-2003
Player G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF TOT APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
Dirk Nowitzki 80 80 39.0 .463 .379 .881 1.00 8.90 9.90 3.0 1.39 1.03 1.90 2.60 25.1

ocelot_ark · 03-12-2004, 07:04 PM

I actually think that Dirk's gotten better defensively. In less minutes this year he's averaging MORE blocks, but fewer steals. I think he's still an average to below average post defender, but on the perimeter, I'd rather Dirk be guarding someone on the perimeter than Finley/Nash/Walker/Jamison. Dirk's done a damn admirable job of keeping his guy in front of him. If the whole team could do that, perhaps this team wouldn't suck balls as much as they currently do.

FilthyFinMavs · 03-12-2004, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: ocelot_ark
but on the perimeter, I'd rather Dirk be guarding someone on the perimeter than Finley/Nash/Walker/Jamison.

I know you are trying to defend Dirk but you can't be serious about this. I've seen Dirk beaten off the dribble by Rashard Lewis wayy to many times for me to say anything like this. I think his man to man defense what is poor. It seems he has improved his team defense and his off the man defense.

Turkey · 03-12-2004, 09:33 PM

I thought he played ok d last night

I think that the media cameras focus alot more on the mavs lack of interior defense than other teams.
Nash really contributed alot to the penetration by playing goofy d.

OutletPass · 03-12-2004, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by Dirno2000:

Quote:

I would say he's a better perimeter defender and about the same in the low post. He has picked up a couple of disturbing habits. For instance, he's realized that he has quick hands so when he doesn't really feel like defending; he'll just let his man blow by him and try to poke the ball away

I'll have to echo Dirno's comments here...I just see Dirk doing this over and over...his speed with his hands is causing him to rely on it a bit too much. Last year, we may have gotten away with a few more of these on Dirk's party, as both Raef and Bradley were there to come off their man and swat a shot away...but obviously, we don't have that shotblocking guy on the interior any more with Raef gone and Shanwn's minutes dwindling game by game. To go to the next level, Dirk's going to have to more active with his body.

Teamwide, I just see a lack of energy on defense...every opponent seems to shot an incredible percentage on us...and that's just about effort to me.No one's going chest to chest, hardly anyone is chasing them off of the perimeter, and the inside defense is just non-existent without a shotblocker back there. If there's one thing that's killing me night after night, it's the absence of a shotblocker back in the paint. It's such a Defensive weapon...and we just don't have it anymore.

Murphy3 · 03-12-2004, 10:12 PM

I honestly believe that Dirk's perimeter defense has taken a HUGE step forward this year. However, this season has also proven that Dirk doesn't need to be the last line of defense because he's not capable of doing so. But, I didn't think that there were many people that actually wanted him to be the last line of defense besides Nellie.

I believe he's a reliable defender at the 4 spot in either man or zone IF the Mavs consistently got minutes at the 5 spot from a center. But, that is not the case so Dirk's defensive issues are brought more into the limelight.

rakesh.s · 03-12-2004, 10:41 PM

dirk has looked good this year in spots..sending shots back and preventing the little guys from going right to the hoop

but he has looked awful in a lot of games..most notably the Utah jazz game..jarron collins was running circles around dirk and getting layups

TheKid · 03-15-2004, 04:54 PM

Let me say this, I don't QUESTION Dirk's ability to be a damn good defender both interior or on the perimeter, BUT I just have not seen it CONSISTENTLY. There are few games where he'll make a play or two, but last year he was more consistent than he has been this year. Yes he's our best rebounder but unfortunately that is NOT saying much.

I just know Dirk can make more of an impact on defense than he's been making and that's my problem. He had more of an impact last year believe it or not. As far as he goes with using his hands, I agree and that's why I get so upset with him because he does use his hands to swipe at the ball more than he actually tries to move his feet. He needs to knock that off.

Murphy3 · 03-15-2004, 05:07 PM

Which, I do believe he has gotten better at using his feet to guard players on the perimeter. But no, he isn't consistent enough on the defensive end by any means. But, when I see him on the court at the 4 spot with a legit center next to him, I see plenty of reasons to be excited about how much better he can be on that end.

TheKid · 03-15-2004, 06:18 PM

That's where you base it off of what he can be, or what he could do, which is correct in a sense BUT from what I've seen I can't say he's been as dominating as I KNOW he can and should be on the defensive end. From a defensive standpoint, he's as (if not more) athletic as Tim Duncan. Therefore I believe he can have just as much as an impact and he doesn't.

Murphy3 · 03-15-2004, 06:40 PM

TheKid, I'm not at all saying that he is where he needs to be, and I'm sure you're not saying that I believe he is. However, I believe we've seen flashes of him doing certain things that I didn't think we'd see from him. Now, he just has to put it all together on the defensive end consistently. Obviously, that is the key. Flashes of brilliance combined with flashing of burning dog crap doesn't quite cut it.