Mavs biggest defensive issue

[Murphy3]

what is the mavs biggest defensive issue?

[dude1394]

Nellie.

[MavsFanFinley]

zone

no shotblocker

[OutletPass]

1) Lack of a shotblocker/defender at the 5.
1a) Lack of perimeter defenders.

Which lead to an overuse of the Zone.

For me, it all starts in the paint. Cure that and things get better as you move out to the perimeter.

[DNNF]

Definitely Nellie. He have some goods in Bradley, and don't know how to use it.

[chumdawg]

Not scoring enough points themselves.

[Rhylan]

Not enough perimeter defenders and J-Ho is the only guy who has a snowball's chance in hell at guarding a 3.

[Stitch Jones]

Originally posted by: Rhylan
Not enough perimeter defenders and J-Ho is the only guy who has a snowball's chance in hell at guarding a 3.

I agree - perimeter D. That and not having one of Bradley, Fort or Williams on the floor at all times.

[ddh33]

OP is right here.

This team struggles to guard anyone on the perimter.
And this team has no one in the frontcourt to block shots when Bradley doesn't play.

Maybe that team from last year wasn't as flawed as everyone thought?

[jayC]

No all around players are on this team. No good defensive and offensive players at maybe the exception of Marquies Daniels and Josh Howard.

The fact that the teams best players aren't average defenders. And way too much reliance on the Zone. I think it was a stroke of genius by Cuban not to trade for a patch for this team. Aka Theo Ratliff , Brian Grant or another second tier center. It gave the Nellie a message this is your team now win with what you've got.

[aexchange]

nash's inability to keep opposing players from penetrating into the lane.

he's perhaps the most inept defensive player i've seen in a long time.

dirk and jamison have also been taking lessons from them.

[ISmellmyTshirts]

Help defense. The rotations are horrible.
Sure the 2 guard lets his man get by him. But it starts 30ft from the basket. The other perimeter player simply has to cut off the o-player's path, and then get back on his man if there is a kickout.

[dirkFREAKINnowitzki]

No center.

Fortson would be great if he were 3 to 4 inches taller and could jump.

Bradley is a good shotblocker, alter shots, and tries to be a force, but others think he is just an elbowing, white punk. Not racist, just the way it is. Remember the comment about soft white players?

Williams would have been good for this team if he were 6-8 years younger.


If the mavs could get a real center, it would be amazing how good the perimeter defense would get. Inside/Out is how it works. Dirk would suddenly become an average defender and the rest of the team would have more confidence in the center and power forward position.

[jayC]

This team simply put needs a good post defender whether a 4 or a five. Imagine how much better Bradley would be with a good man on defender. The mavs need a Rasheed Wallace, a Kurt Thomas type of player.

[Murphy3]

Honestly, the Mavs biggest defensive issue right now is slowing down the penetration.
The second biggest defensive issue is Nellie not playing the centers enough minutes forcing Dirk out of position. Dirk goes from being a pretty decent power forward defensively to an issue defensively as a center.

[Simon2]

I think the biggest problem with the Mavs defensively is that they have no accountability and pride in their defense. They rely too much on help defense. I believe no one is saying to themselves, " I don't need help defensively." All of the Mavs players require help to defend. When someone gets past them, they rely on the help defender. If the help defender doesn't arrive, that's when the finger pointing starts. To me, that's the fault of the defensive player who let the guy thru in the first place. Its his fault for not keeping the guy in front of him. If he gets thru, don't cry if no one comes to help you coz they're also busy defending their own people. Of course, another problem is matchups too. Nellie wants to create offensive matchups but they also create defensive matchups too. A good example is Walker at center. Walker at center is a nightmare for the other team but its also a nightmare for Walker. Think of it this way, Walker will score and the other center will score. The problem is that the other center will probably grab more rebounds than Walker. Mavs are disadvantaged because of height.

[MightyToine]

Originally posted by: Simon2
I think the biggest problem with the Mavs defensively is that they have no accountability and pride in their defense. They rely too much on help defense. I believe no one is saying to themselves, " I don't need help defensively." All of the Mavs players require help to defend. When someone gets past them, they rely on the help defender. If the help defender doesn't arrive, that's when the finger pointing starts. To me, that's the fault of the defensive player who let the guy thru in the first place. Its his fault for not keeping the guy in front of him. If he gets thru, don't cry if no one comes to help you coz they're also busy defending their own people. Of course, another problem is matchups too. Nellie wants to create offensive matchups but they also create defensive matchups too. A good example is Walker at center. Walker at center is a nightmare for the other team but its also a nightmare for Walker. Think of it this way, Walker will score and the other center will score. The problem is that the other center will probably grab more rebounds than Walker. Mavs are disadvantaged because of height.

True, simon....But at this point, with the Way this team is struggling on offense(of all things) and the way Walk is struggling, I'LL BE WILLING TO TRY "Small Ball" with Toine at C.

[dirno2000]

Attitude

[PubaNWO]

Bad M2M defense.....if the Mavs had the M2M they wouldn't need to play Zone and wouldn't need an interior shotblocker....

[kg_veteran]

The biggest issue is the inability to stop penetration. Penetration is what breaks the defense down. A related problem would be the inability to stop cutters and dives to the goal. The only sure way to slow down penetration is to play as many good perimeter defenders as possible. Once you stop (or slow down) penetration, everything else starts to become more manageable.

In that regard, playing "small ball" could help. Nash is a substandard perimeter defender by any method of evaluation, but that can't be changed. Finley is an adequate perimeter defender at the 2 spot and a good perimeter defender at the 3 spot, and honestly, he's the real key to the equation, because we all know he's going to get a ton of minutes. If Fin can defend well, the Mavs might be able to build some defensive momentum.

The Mavs like to switch the pick and roll, and that's why going smaller helps on the perimeter. Daniels, Howard, and Finley have enough size to switch and cover bigger players, at least temporarily, and Walker, Dirk, and Jamison have better quickness than our centers on the perimeter.

You can't "stop" penetration, but if you can slow it down by providing as much resistance as possible and not simply watching people go by, you have a better shot at getting stops. Perhaps small ball gives us a better shot at that.

The second biggest problem is protecting the rim. Small ball won't help there. To protect the rim, we really only have one solution, and that's to play Bradley. Bradley, combined with a better perimeter defense, could give the Mavs at least adequate defense in the paint.

If the Mavs deploy small ball in the playoffs, the real key will be the ability to rebound the ball on the defensive end and the ability to take away layups.

We know that Dirk is good for 10-11 boards a game in the playoffs, and Walker should be good for 8-9. Jamison should be able to pull down 7 or so. Can Fin, Howard and Daniels combine to get 14-15? If they can, we'll be in good shape. If they can't, we're gonna get pounded on the glass.

As for taking away layups, if the Mavs pack it down in the paint, they ought to be able to, for the most part. Make the other team beat you with the outside shot. Of course, the key to that, again, is stopping penetration.

[PubaNWO]

I'd rather have the opposing center take away shots from his teammates.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
The biggest issue is the inability to stop penetration. Penetration is what breaks the defense down. A related problem would be the inability to stop cutters and dives to the goal. The only sure way to slow down penetration is to play as many good perimeter defenders as possible. Once you stop (or slow down) penetration, everything else starts to become more manageable.

In that regard, playing "small ball" could help. Nash is a substandard perimeter defender by any method of evaluation, but that can't be changed. Finley is an adequate perimeter defender at the 2 spot and a good perimeter defender at the 3 spot, and honestly, he's the real key to the equation, because we all know he's going to get a ton of minutes. If Fin can defend well, the Mavs might be able to build some defensive momentum.

The Mavs like to switch the pick and roll, and that's why going smaller helps on the perimeter. Daniels, Howard, and Finley have enough size to switch and cover bigger players, at least temporarily, and Walker, Dirk, and Jamison have better quickness than our centers on the perimeter.

You can't "stop" penetration, but if you can slow it down by providing as much resistance as possible and not simply watching people go by, you have a better shot at getting stops. Perhaps small ball gives us a better shot at that.

The second biggest problem is protecting the rim. Small ball won't help there. To protect the rim, we really only have one solution, and that's to play Bradley. Bradley, combined with a better perimeter defense, could give the Mavs at least adequate defense in the paint.

If the Mavs deploy small ball in the playoffs, the real key will be the ability to rebound the ball on the defensive end and the ability to take away layups.

We know that Dirk is good for 10-11 boards a game in the playoffs, and Walker should be good for 8-9. Jamison should be able to pull down 7 or so. Can Fin, Howard and Daniels combine to get 14-15? If they can, we'll be in good shape. If they can't, we're gonna get pounded on the glass.

As for taking away layups, if the Mavs pack it down in the paint, they ought to be able to, for the most part. Make the other team beat you with the outside shot. Of course, the key to that, again, is stopping penetration.

Great analysis KG, you said it better than I could have.
I think the Mavs are going to have to stop the "switching" at the picks, but I know they do that in order to keep Nash in the game. He gets beat up physically when they don't.

[EricaLubarsky]

zone stops penetration but leaves the the 3 point line undefended. We have been unable to stop penetration OR guard the outside jumper. Thats a problem. I'm all for the zone if it stops penetration and leaves the 3ball open, but if we play zone to stop penetration and we are so bad people can get wherever they want AND shoot the three at will we are in BIG trouble

[grbh]

Slow feet

[Psychedelic Fuzz]

lack of effort

[1timesportsbeatwriter]

Reliance on the zone is the biggest problem. When the NBA first started allowing zone defenses before the start of the 01-02 season, nellie looked at his team and knowing they were weak defensively, decided that the zone would at least let them be competitive, and then figured that when they got better defensive players, they wouldnt have to rely ont he zone.
well, they never got better defensive players. And so, the defensive players they have are so used to guarding an area of the court, not a man, that they play lousy man on man. Just like on offense, you get used to running certain plays, like the pick n roll or the pick n pop, well, on defense, you get used to running through picks and screens to follow YOUR man. But because the mavs dont get a lot of practice doing that, they struggle. We cant expect them to be great man defenders when they dont even try to go man up against the bad teams for longer stretches.
AGain, the mavs zone defnese stops another guy from just going NUTS on them, and when i mean nuts, i mean for like 40 or 50 points. Yeah, stephen jackson can go off for 30something, and lot of other gusy got their career high against the mavs this season, but nobody goes nuts, and its because the mavs zone. Problem is, one person may not go nuts, but two or three or four people may get 15-20-25 points.
So the mavs have to get out of the zone. In fact, if im nellie, these last nine games, i go man to man the whole time, get these guys used to chasing people, moving their feet, having some pride and not relying on help defense, box and ones, or whatever other gimmicks theyve been relying on.
the other reasons the mavs are so bad on defense is their perimeter d. its is terrible. nash, finley _ horrible. Dirk in the paint, horrible. he gets a lot fo blocked shots, but hes like lafrentz was last year, he can get blocked shots as the help defender, but not on his man, one on one.
the mavs play their best defnese when bradley is in the game. but nellie doesnt like bradly cuz he isnt a 15 points per game scorer, which leads me to the biggest mavs problem on defense...
nellie.
he has never coached a team that played great defense. he always wines that he doesnt have the players, doesnt have the big man. but this is the team he put together. this is always the kidn of team he puts together, a team high in gimmick, but low in down and dirty. And so i think as long as nellie is coach of the mavs, they are going to be horrible defensively.

[Richard]

[i]he has never coached a team that played great defense. he always wines that he doesnt have the players, doesnt have the big man. but this is the team he put together. this is always the kidn of team he puts together, a team high in gimmick, but low in down and dirty. And so i think as long as nellie is coach of the mavs, they are going to be horrible defensively.

Pretty good post, but, one too far. He had some great defensive teams in Milwaukee with Sidney Moncrief and Co.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: kg_veteran
The biggest issue is the inability to stop penetration. Penetration is what breaks the defense down. A related problem would be the inability to stop cutters and dives to the goal. The only sure way to slow down penetration is to play as many good perimeter defenders as possible. Once you stop (or slow down) penetration, everything else starts to become more manageable.

In that regard, playing "small ball" could help. Nash is a substandard perimeter defender by any method of evaluation, but that can't be changed. Finley is an adequate perimeter defender at the 2 spot and a good perimeter defender at the 3 spot, and honestly, he's the real key to the equation, because we all know he's going to get a ton of minutes. If Fin can defend well, the Mavs might be able to build some defensive momentum.

The Mavs like to switch the pick and roll, and that's why going smaller helps on the perimeter. Daniels, Howard, and Finley have enough size to switch and cover bigger players, at least temporarily, and Walker, Dirk, and Jamison have better quickness than our centers on the perimeter.

You can't "stop" penetration, but if you can slow it down by providing as much resistance as possible and not simply watching people go by, you have a better shot at getting stops. Perhaps small ball gives us a better shot at that.

The second biggest problem is protecting the rim. Small ball won't help there. To protect the rim, we really only have one solution, and that's to play Bradley. Bradley, combined with a better perimeter defense, could give the Mavs at least adequate defense in the paint.

If the Mavs deploy small ball in the playoffs, the real key will be the ability to rebound the ball on the defensive end and the ability to take away layups.

We know that Dirk is good for 10-11 boards a game in the playoffs, and Walker should be good for 8-9. Jamison should be able to pull down 7 or so. Can Fin, Howard and Daniels combine to get 14-15? If they can, we'll be in good shape. If they can't, we're gonna get pounded on the glass.

As for taking away layups, if the Mavs pack it down in the paint, they ought to be able to, for the most part. Make the other team beat you with the outside shot. Of course, the key to that, again, is stopping penetration.

My bud and I were talking about this today. That shawn/fortson/scott don't handle the switch on the pick and roll that well. Also except for raef this year's small ball version is actually quite a bit bigger than last years especially with AJ/JHo mannig the 3 spot.

[Dirks Cuzin]

Originally posted by: OutletPass
1) Lack of a shotblocker/defender at the 5.
1a) Lack of perimeter defenders.

Which lead to an overuse of the Zone.

For me, it all starts in the paint. Cure that and things get better as you move out to the perimeter.

Right on that last sentence... But COME ON... I think Evil and the Ape would agree with me hands down that Bradley is one of the ebst shot blockers to ever play the game... Check this out

All Time Leaders: Blocks
Player G AVG BLK
1. Hakeem Olajuwon 1,238 3.09 3,830
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 2.57 3,189
3. Mark Eaton 875 3.50 3,064
4. Dikembe Mutombo 924 3.23 2,987
5. David Robinson 987 2.99 2,954
6. Patrick Ewing 1,183 2.45 2,894
7. Tree Rollins 1,156 2.20 2,542
8. Robert Parish 1,611 1.47 2,361
9. Manute Bol 624 3.34 2,086
10. George T. Johnson 904 2.46 2,082
11. Shaquille O'Neal 800 2.60 2,077
12. Shawn Bradley 748 2.74 2,052

AS YOU SEE... Shawn the Stormin Mormon Bradley is the 12th best Shot Blocker EVER to play the game... and look, creepin up on Shaq, Manute, George T.. I see him 9th soon... If he doesnt beat Shaq, 10th... I rest my case

[OutletPass]

Shawn can't block shots if they don't play him...that's the main point.

Ther secondary point is the Mavs need a 2nd big man who can get blocks at the 5.

[Dirks Cuzin]

U r right in thats sense.. That raises the question why not mre pt

[mavsfanforever]

Actually some part of the perimeter D also depends on if you have a shot blocker in the middle or not. If anyone notices when Bradley is in the game the opposing teams 3pt % also goes down. Here is my assessment: When the players know that they have a player in the paint who can block the shots they can play really aggressive at the perimeter going for steals or putting a body instead of keeping distance since they are aftraid to get beat on the dribble. Every Mavs defense starts from Bradley and is effective only when Bradley is out there.

[dude1394]

Dang straight mff..

It's also one of the reasons I've been dissappointed in fortson's lack of aggressiveness when folks come into the lane. Ever since his suspension, he's been ole'ing them through there. As much as I like his effort on the boards, that's the big reason he doesn't get more playing time. He should waste about two really hard nba fouls a game.

[kg_veteran]

I think one thing Nellie pointed out in the article just posted from the DMN is that if they start with Walker at center and decide they need a shotblocking presence, they'll adjust.

I picture this happening in the playoffs. Shawn and Fortson will get more time if the opponent has a dominant big guy inside.

[OutletPass]

Im not sure that makes a lot of sense...since Shawn doesn't get the majority of his blocks on the opponent's 5. He gets most of them on guards who pentrate or forwards who cut to therim.

[Five-ofan]

I personally believe that one of the mavs defensive problems(not the biggest but one of) is their reputation. Opposing players know of their bad D and thus look forward to playing the mavs. How many times have we heard that shooting is all about confidence(with the exception of walker, he has a lot of confidence but is the worst shooter on the mavs). People come into games against the mavs with alot of confidence which leads to terrible shooters like stevenson and jefferson making jumpers against the mavs. They realize that when a team like the spurs leaves them open it is for a reason but when the mavs do it they believe its just cus the mavs suck.

PS. Soft white boys is racist. It would be the same as saying stupid black boys. It is a stereotype that is not true.

[Simon2]

I guess I'd be willing to try it for a few games too. It would really work if Walker somehow finds his three point shot. If he could only be as good as Raef. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

Originally posted by: MightyToine

True, simon....But at this point, with the Way this team is struggling on offense(of all things) and the way Walk is struggling, I'LL BE WILLING TO TRY "Small Ball" with Toine at C.