The Van Exel Trade Ruined Our Playoff Hopes

[Captain Disaster]

Just think, we knew this BEFORE the season started! Jamison is a nice player, but he is not clutch; he cannot take over playoff games.

[Murphy3]

Nope.
Poor execution down the stretch and not getting the ball to your best player in game 1, 2, and 5 down the stretch was key in losing this series.

Fin and Nash not showing up for much of the series cost the Mavs.

Walker's big bag cost the Mavs.

Bradley not seeing the court cost the Mavs.

Not hitting free throws in game 4 cost the Mavs.

Not having NVE probably didn't cost the Mavs. He's more likely to be off than on. Last year's playoff run was not indicative of what NVE has done throughout his career. I'm sorry, but he would have been more likely to shoot 30% from the field in the playoffs this year than he was to shoot 45%

[Captain Disaster]

That's crap, Murphy. Van Exel is one of a handful of truly clutch players in the league who can elevate their games under pressure. The Kings won because they have a clutch player: Bibby. If Jackson had played, it would have been a sweep.

[dude1394]

Nope. NVE is hurt, wouldn't be playing. Walker trade stunk it up this year for this team.

[Lvubun1]

I'm not sure if Nick alone would have made a difference or if he would have even played(tho considering he choose to sit out the last 6 games, im pretty sure he would have played if the W's were in the playoffs), but I'm damn sure missing last year's team. You go from 5 quarters away from the NBA finals and likely a Championship to winning one game while getting beat in the first round, I don't see how anybody can say any of the trades the Mavs did in the off-season were a success.

[dude1394]

No disaster you bringing NVE up when he wouldn't even be playing is crap.

[mavsfanforever]

I have no complaints against Jamison. The main thing mavs lacked was somebody to either get the ball to Dirk or make a clutch shot and Nick did that last season. But he did that in only one series.

[Murphy3]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
That's crap, Murphy. Van Exel is one of a handful of truly clutch players in the league who can elevate their games under pressure. The Kings won because they have a clutch player: Bibby. If Jackson had played, it would have been a sweep.

Nope, NVE would have probably hit 40% of his clutch shots just like he hits the rest of the game.

NVE is a volume clutch shooter just like he's a volume shooter the rest of the game.

[LRB]

Losing NVE did not ruin our playoff hopes. If any trade did it, it was the Walker trade. Murphy did a great job recapping what cost us this series. However with Nellie as coach this year it might not have mattered who we had as players. We could have had Garnett and Duncan on our team and it wouldn't have helped if they didn't get into the game much.

[mavsfanforever]

Originally posted by: Murphy3

Nope, NVE would have probably hit 40% of his clutch shots just like he hits the rest of the game.

NVE is a volume clutch shooter just like he's a volume shooter the rest of the game.

Murph, atleast in one series Nick did try to get the ball to either Dirk and if that was not possible he did make a play himself.

[MavKikiNYC]

I'd trade NVE for Jamison a thousand times.

And I'd refuse to trade for Walker 10,000,000.

[Captain Disaster]

It's entirely possible that Van Exel wouldn't have been hurt had he not been traded. And Murph, I guess you think that Iverson is crap because he is a volume shooter? I agree that Walker & Nellie were a problem, & that Jamison is a nice acquisition, but Van Exel can turn it on and TAKE OVER games. Like I said in August, the MAVS have no one who can currently do that under pressure in games against the elite teams.

[grndmstr_c]

There are knee jerk threads, and then there are knee jerk threads. You're so off base it's not even funny, CD.

[Lvubun1]

But if the Jamison trade wasn't done, the Walker trade probably would have not been made either. So would the Mavs have been better off with Nick, no Walker or Jamison; or Jamison, with Walker. In other words did Jamison's good outweigh Walker's bad. Guess its water over the bridge either way.

[Epitome22]

This thread is pointless. Jamison did a hell of a job, he may have been a stronger 6th man than NVE was. Resting the hopes of the playoffs on the perceived magical ability of one bench player is pretty fruitless. Lame.

[Captain Disaster]

We need: a CLUTCH shooter, a tough low post defender, a tough high post defender, and we also need to trade Finley if we can get anything for him. His greatest asset, his excellent free throw shooting is a non factor, because HE REFUSES TO GO TO THE HOLE!

As for knee jerking, I've been saying all these things since freakin August.

[ddh33]

Sometimes people act like Nick Van Exel was just along for the ride last season. They act as though the Mavs would have won, and maybe even have gone farther without him. That's rediculous.

Other people act like Nick was the Mavs savior. They act like Nick was the only reason this team was any good. These people seemed surprised the Mavs can win at all without him. That's equally rediculous.

The truth is, Nick's value to this team was somewhere in the middle.

Nick provided a great deal of toughness (emotional). He was the kind of guy who wouldn't back down from a challenge. He wasn't afraid to take a last second shot. He was a guy who could create shots for other players, and someone the opposing defense had to scheme against. Even then, it didn't matter. He could get into the lane and help his team in different ways...

What this team misses is his creativity and toughness though. That showed every step of the way this season.

But you probably still have to make that Jamison trade.

[dude1394]

AI is crap.

[grndmstr_c]

As for knee jerking, I've been saying all these things since freakin August.

That's a long time to be saying something that makes no sense.

[Mavs Rule]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
I'd trade NVE for Jamison a thousand times.

And I'd refuse to trade for Walker 10,000,000.

I concur. I have been saying this since day one. Point forward or Walk as center, I said it wouldn't work anyway with Walk. But I am convinced that the big three didn't like the Walk trade either, so its no surprise that the season ended this way.

[Captain Disaster]

I have to admit that maybe Cuban had to trade someone for financial reasons, I just think it should have been Finley (even though I actually like Finley). Yes, AI maybe crap as a personality, but not as a player.

The value of clutch players is simply that: they are clutch. It really doesn't matter if they aren't ALWAYS clutch, it only matters in games like the 3 close ones we lost in this series. And, BTW, it doesn't appear that the trade of Van Exel lessened the Kings layup drill one bit.

[Murphy3]

NVE hasn't exactly been clutch the past few seasons. Yes, he had a nice run in the playoffs, but I wouldn't bet on him having a run like that ever again.

Screw NVE.

[Captain Disaster]

Originally posted by: grndmstr_c

That's a long time to be saying something that makes no sense.

Cute, but just because you said it, means diddly. What is your solution. swami?

It's all irrelevant now anyway; we just have to move on from here. I just wonder if the Mavs will ever get to the Finals under Cuban. It doesn't seem likely.

[Captain Disaster]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
NVE hasn't exactly been clutch the past few seasons. Yes, he had a nice run in the playoffs, but I wouldn't bet on him having a run like that ever again.

Screw NVE.

Put him on a team that is a contender, and see what happens. Screw Finley. I guess 100 million ruins you as a player.

[TVI]

Well, I'm on the record as one who didn't like the Walker trade from the start. Of course, I also thought the Mavs would win this series, so what do I know? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
I any event, Erica made a great point a while back: this series hinged on the Bibby/Nash matchup. I initially believed that matchup worked in the Mavs favor (slightly). That's where I went wrong. Nash was outplayed in this series by his counterpart, and even with Webber diminished presense, Bibby carried his team through. Sacramento was ripe for picking off, but Bibby really elevated his game, just as he did against the Lakers a couple seasons ago.

[basketball jonessss]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
I'd trade NVE for Jamison a thousand times.

And I'd refuse to trade for Walker 10,000,000.

Look, I have found someone who understands basketball. I am in shock.

Nick was no answer. What would you rather have (Nick at SG and Finley at SF ) OR (Finley at SG and Jamison at SF) It's a no brainer. Problem is that Finley still ended up at small forward where he is not effective.

[Captain Disaster]

Originally posted by: basketball jonessss

Look, I have found someone who understands basketball. I am in shock.

Nick was no answer. What would you rather have (Nick at SG and Finley at SF ) OR (Finley at SG and Jamison at SF) It's a no brainer. Problem is that Finley still ended up at small forward where he is not effective.

It's not a no brainer, obviously. How about no trade, or one involving Finley, our $100 million GUARD!?

[Day1MavsFan]

I have to agree with the captain here. You just can't measure things like heart, clutch, leadership, etc. with stats like fg%. Nick did come up big in the playoffs, and not just shooting and passing, either. His defense was good in that he denied penetration. Of course, his assist-to-turnover ratio was great as I recall.
I would rather have had Nick at SG than Finley. Finley was just horrible.
Of course, I can't be really sure of how much Nick's presence would have helped because there were so many other factors that contributed, as nicely pointed out by Murph. I do think that no Nick should be included on that list.

[Max Power]

I posted this a while back on the other thread. NVE can help you win and he can kill you.

"I just wanted to add a little something to this topic. While NVE certainly helped us win the Sacremento series (he shot 52% from the field and 45% on three pointers for the series), he hurt us in the San Antonio series (he shot 37% from the field and 34% on three pointers for that series AND only averaged 2.7 assists despite playing 38 minutes per game).

Wouldn't it have been nice if he would have passed the ball to Finley a few more times in the San Antonio series. Finley was ON FIRE - averaging 50% from the field. "

[MavsFanatik33]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
Just think, we knew this BEFORE the season started! Jamison is a nice player, but he is not clutch; he cannot take over playoff games.

He had never been there, how would you know? He's a better play than Van Exel almost all around...
Do you ever have anything positive to say?

[Stressboy]

The NVE and Raef trades will be judged by the team that takes the floor in October. If Nellie stays, then a great second PG is our most important pickup, then an athletic shot blocking center (Camby is the guy for me though I'll take someone like Swift or Chandler if we could pull a deal).

The trades were about value, not chemistry and this year was an outstanding year for the Mavs in that regard. With the additions of the rookies, we now have 7 guys that have outstanding value (supposing that we keep Nash and Danials). With that many assets, we have the ammunition to be in the running for a superstar or multiple pieces to the puzzle. In fact, other than the mid eighties team, this is the largest collection of quality players we have ever had.

I was really pissed about the 4pt play last night because that was the worst ref call of the playoffs so far and it obviously allowed Sac to win, but I was kind of relieved to see this mismatched no chemistry team put out of its misery. If I'm Cuban, I see where the genuis of the Nellies is going with the expansion, regular drafts, and free agency. If their plan does not include aquiring the two things listed above, for me its time to make a leadership change, but I would be really wary of getting rid of the Nellies because they do bring in talent which is much better than a lot of GM's out there. I would prefer for Nellie to stay as GM and get someone else to be the coach (but I don't have a clue who that should be).

Stressboy

[u2sarajevo]

Craptain Disaster strikes again.

You are complaining about the wrong offseason trade CD. Walker was a cancer to the Mavs, Cuban, people in attendance at the AAC, me. It was fitting to see his "I just sucked on a lemon and that was sour" face after he committed each of his turnovers at the end of the 4th quarter yesterday. I had the same look on my face right before I bent over and puked up my frustration with him for the entire season of miscues he orchestrated.

I think you are forgetting the frustrating crap NVE brought during the regular season. Shoot first, ask questions later. I'll take his "leadership" as long as he keeps himself out of a Maverick uniform. In other words, no thanks.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Stressboy
The NVE and Raef trades will be judged by the team that takes the floor in October. If Nellie stays, then a great second PG is our most important pickup, then an athletic shot blocking center (Camby is the guy for me though I'll take someone like Swift or Chandler if we could pull a deal).

The trades were about value, not chemistry and this year was an outstanding year for the Mavs in that regard. With the additions of the rookies, we now have 7 guys that have outstanding value (supposing that we keep Nash and Danials). With that many assets, we have the ammunition to be in the running for a superstar or multiple pieces to the puzzle. In fact, other than the mid eighties team, this is the largest collection of quality players we have ever had.

I'm on-board with you on this one stress. I don't know whom the extra players are but nellie is going to have to do something to (as murphy says) make dirk the unquestioned go-to-guy and make defense a priority.

[Captain Disaster]

Originally posted by: u2sarajevo
Craptain Disaster strikes again.

You are complaining about the wrong offseason trade CD. Walker was a cancer to the Mavs, Cuban, people in attendance at the AAC, me. It was fitting to see his "I just sucked on a lemon and that was sour" face after he committed each of his turnovers at the end of the 4th quarter yesterday. I had the same look on my face right before I bent over and puked up my frustration with him for the entire season of miscues he orchestrated.

I think you are forgetting the frustrating crap NVE brought during the regular season. Shoot first, ask questions later. I'll take his "leadership" as long as he keeps himself out of a Maverick uniform. In other words, no thanks.

I'm not complaining, I'm simply in pain. I just can't stand to take steps backwards. If these moves ultimately take us to the Finals, then so be it; but, how long will the window of opportunity remain open for the big three? Maybe Cuban has plans that will take us to the top.

[Max Power]

I think that trading Avery Johnson was a bigger blow than trading NVE. Avery wouldn't let star players slack off - heck Avery got NVE going when they first got here.

[mavsman55]

Originally posted by: Captain Disaster
Just think, we knew this BEFORE the season started! Jamison is a nice player, but he is not clutch; he cannot take over playoff games.

Captain Disaster, Antawn Jamison was just about the only one on this team other than Dirk who didn't choke down the stretch in this series. And how can you accuse a player who's never been the playoffs before in his life of not being clutch?

Edit: Also, it's hard to take over playoff games when you're not 100%. Jamison was playing with a tight hamstring or something like that, and still contributed very well.

[Captain Disaster]

Originally posted by: mavsman55

Captain Disaster, Antawn Jamison was just about the only one on this team other than Dirk who didn't choke down the stretch in this series. And how can you accuse a player who's never been the playoffs before in his life of not being clutch?

Edit: Also, it's hard to take over playoff games when you're not 100%. Jamison was playing with a tight hamstring or something like that, and still contributed very well.

In a way, I kind of view this year as similar to the first year for Nash, & then the first year for Van Exel & Raef. They weren't very good, but the following year, they were great. So provided Cuban doesn't blow up the team like he says he won't, maybe next year will be a breakout year. As sideline QBs, many on this forum believe that Nellie is a loser who makes insane decisions; I submit that he is a great coach, who makes the most of his talent. There is no denying that the Mavs have talent; I think we should give them next year with this group plus a couple of additions.