Garnett RULES

[reeds]

THE BEST in the NBA right now- period..he showed it all year, and he sure showed it in the fourth quarter of game 7...DOMINATION....all the people who said he cant win big games, wasnt that good, Dirk was better...blah blah blah..come out and chat ..im waiting to hear all the lame excuses now..He is the MVP..he DID WIN two series in a row...what can we bitch about now? I know- he is too skinny?

[LakerMania]

Webber and crew.........

[dirno2000]

He took a huge step tonight. Scored every T-Wolve fg in the 4th! That just goes to show that sometimes willing a team to victory is a maturation proccess. The fact that he didn't play college ball probably slowed his developement in that department.

[Murphy3]

The Kings are absolutely nutless.

[Simon2]

Seems like the Kings were emotionless this series. Seems like they were just tired. Tired from playing the Mavs. Nevertheless, KG was the man! You can see that he's hungry. Hungry to win. I didn't want the Wolves to win but after seeing KG's performance tonight, I'm beginning to cheer for the Wolves. Especially against the Lakers. Wolves might go all the way. I don't see anyone stopping KG but then again. Who's stopping Kobe?

[Peja_owns]

Originally posted by: Murphy3
The Kings are absolutely nutless.

Apparently so are the Mavs.

[grndmstr_c]

Aw, poor, poor bitter Peja.

[dirno2000]

I found it interesting that Saunders played Ervin Johnson 29 minutes tonight, despite the fact that he was a liability on offense. His stat line was pretty anemic (0 points, 7 boards, 2 blocks), but if you watched the game you saw how he impacted the game defensively. If he missed two lay-ups for Nellie, he never would have played that much.

[ocelot_ark]

ah reeds...hibernates for months just waiting to prove a menial point.

[Shaq Attack2]

Webber is such a bitch. I'm glad he'll never win a title.

[mavsfanforever]

The amazing factor is how Peja disappears in Game sevens. I think the only guy that played with passion yesterday was Christie.

[MavKikiNYC]

It was an interesting game. Webber has clearly fallen off the pedestal for top PFs in the game, as KG takes the top spot alongside Duncan. Webber's choke on that gimme-layup with about a minute left was classsic--as if the basketball gods were saying "NO!"; followed by the errant 3-at the buzzer "For the last time, NO!". Sac should move him if they can. I believe their window with him has closed.

KG looked mostly awesome last night, although he had a couple of missteps at crucial times (missed FT, turnover) that could've cost them. Tough, though not inconceivable, to see him taking down the Lakers. LA looks stacked to stop KG--they can put a former-superstar role player on him (Malone) backed by a current-superstart center waiting in the paint (Shaq), leaving yet another current-superstar 2 to attack from the flank. LA shouldn't try to wait until G3 to start playing again though, or the T'Wolves might be tougher than people seem to think.

Will be interesting to see how close to dominant KG can be in this series.

[SaltwaterChaffy]

Originally posted by: mavsfanforever
The amazing factor is how Peja disappears in Game sevens. I think the only guy that played with passion yesterday was Christie.

I have to give it up to Mini-Me here, because while KG was going on his unreal streak where he scored 13 straight points, Bibby was throwing some amazing passes on the other end to get Sacramento layups. However, Webber and Miller both missed on their attempts.

[reeds]

"ah reeds...hibernates for months just waiting to prove a menial point. "

Hibernates?? Not true- Im on the politcal threads getting bashed daily!

But you are correct about one thing- I did PROVE my point..Everyone bashed me before saying how Dirk was better..I am still waiting to hear what you have to say about it now? Whatever

[WayOutWest]

Originally posted by: reeds
"ah reeds...hibernates for months just waiting to prove a menial point. "

Hibernates?? Not true- Im on the politcal threads getting bashed daily!

But you are correct about one thing- I did PROVE my point..Everyone bashed me before saying how Dirk was better..I am still waiting to hear what you have to say about it now? Whatever

FYI, you did't prove anything, it was KG that proved he can be a prime time player. IMO he proved that last year against the Lakers but he just didn't have the supporting cast to pull out the series. Up until last year you would routinely see KG not ask for the ball or give it up too quickly in crunch time.

IMO, and I've been bashed for it as well, TD and KG are both better than Dirk because of their all around game both offensively and defensively. Someday he may be as good as them but right now I'd rank the PF's in the league TD, KG, JO then Dirk. JO and Dirk are second tier PF's but IMO JO is closer to TD and KG than Dirk because of his post offense, defense and shot blocking.

As far as likeable, I'd say Dirk is 2nd on my list behind TD. JO is a big crybaby and KG has turned into a punk gangsta-wanna be. Hopefully both JO and KG will grow out of their current backasward mindset.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: reeds
"ah reeds...hibernates for months just waiting to prove a menial point. "

Hibernates?? Not true- Im on the politcal threads getting bashed daily!

But you are correct about one thing- I did PROVE my point..Everyone bashed me before saying how Dirk was better..I am still waiting to hear what you have to say about it now? Whatever

Since when did they put internet access in mental wards?

[MavKikiNYC]

...TD and KG are both better than Dirk because of their all around game both offensively and defensively. Someday he may be as good as them but right now I'd rank the PF's in the league TD, KG, JO then Dirk. JO and Dirk are second tier PF's but IMO JO is closer to TD and KG than Dirk because of his post offense, defense and shot blocking.

All legitimate points, at least.

Dirk is handicapped by playing for Nelson, who eschews both defense and low-post offense.

[mikel_ind]

If the Kings were truly weak, then the Wolves must have just been lucky. A great team doesn't escape by the skin of their teeth from a weak team.

Webber's last shot was an inch off target. If the Kings could hit half their free throws, it's a totally different game.

Both teams made countless boneheaded errors in the 4th quarter. Pretty much every player who touched the ball did something bad with it.

Peja was such a nonfactor, Sprewell left him and guarded Bibby. Hoiberg and Wally handled Peja.

Someone has to make shots, other than the stars. It's always been that way, and it always will be. If it's Fisher and George, the Lakers move on. If it's Fred and Wally, go Wolves!

[kg_veteran]

but right now I'd rank the PF's in the league TD, KG, JO then Dirk. JO and Dirk are second tier PF's but IMO JO is closer to TD and KG than Dirk because of his post offense, defense and shot blocking.

O'Neal's team has had a great year, but I still take issue with him being considered a better player than Dirk at this point. He's a better defender than Dirk. He is able to serve as the anchor of a defense where Dirk really doesn't do as good of a job. But offensively, it's just not close. Dirk had what has to be considered an "off" year offensively, and he was much more efficient and effective offensively than O'Neal. Sure, O'Neal has more of a post-up game, but he shoots a poor percentage. Dirk, who is often ripped for not developing a better post game, shot 3 percentage points better from the field, 12 percentage points better from the line, is a threat from anywhere on the court, and had a much higher PPS.

If you want to call them about even right now, I could live with that, I guess, given the off year that Dirk had.

[WayOutWest]

Originally posted by: kg_veteranIf you want to call them about even right now, I could live with that, I guess, given the off year that Dirk had.

No, JO is definately a notch above Dirk this year because of his defense and post game. Dirk is definately more talented and better skilled than JO but JO's overall game would put him higher on my list.

[Stressboy]

reeds,

I'll admit that Garnett is the better all around player and no one has really disputed it, but until he overcomes the Lakers and goes to the Finals, he has done little more to prove himself than Dirk in big playoff games. Dirk has shown he can carry a team in the playoffs many times and has been huge in elimination games. He has been pretty stellar (this year being the exception, though his 26.6pts per game is tops in the playoffs this year and is 5 pts over his yearly average.). For Garnett, this year so far has been the exception in the playoffs not the rule.

By the way, I'm praying that Garnett dominates and does overcome the Lakers, but until he takes them to the finals, he has done only three things in his 9 years that Dirk has not done in 6 and that is to win the Midwest, win the West regular season and be regular season MVP. If you did not notice those three things all happened in his 9th year.

Stressboy

[reeds]

"Since when did they put internet access in mental wards? " MavsKikiNYC..is that the best you got? HAHAH..probably...work a moron...

[SaltwaterChaffy]

Originally posted by: mikel_ind



Peja was such a nonfactor, Sprewell left him and guarded Bibby. Hoiberg and Wally handled Peja.

Spree guarded Bibby for the whole series (except maybe game 1). Trenton Hassell was given much of the Peja duties, until the 4th, when Hoiberg and Wally took over. Spree didn't leave Peja, he was never assigned him.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: WayOutWest

No, JO is definately a notch above Dirk this year because of his defense and post game. Dirk is definately more talented and better skilled than JO but JO's overall game would put him higher on my list.

IMO: JO is not above Dirk. In fact, he is not as good as Dirk. He is a level down from Dirk. He had one of his best years, and Dirk had one of his worst, and Dirk was still better. This should not even be debatable. He doesn't have Dirks range. I like JO, but would put him at 4-6 as far as PF go, not at 3.

[reeds]

"I'll admit that Garnett is the better all around player and no one has really disputed it, " NOT TRUE- this board was on me all last off season about how Dirk was better..not all, but many of the posters were obviously on Dirks side...whatever

[samoan-maverick]

KG is good, but classless at that, you still shouldnt be able to get "a pass" for saying those comments, throwing elbows, but anyways he did good. So what???

Dirk > J.O.

[WayOutWest]

Originally posted by: dalmations202IMO: JO is not above Dirk. In fact, he is not as good as Dirk. He is a level down from Dirk. He had one of his best years, and Dirk had one of his worst, and Dirk was still better. This should not even be debatable. He doesn't have Dirks range. I like JO, but would put him at 4-6 as far as PF go, not at 3.

It's one thing to have a point of view, quite another to back it up.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: reeds
"I'll admit that Garnett is the better all around player and no one has really disputed it, " NOT TRUE- this board was on me all last off season about how Dirk was better..not all, but many of the posters were obviously on Dirks side...whatever

Duh.

Dirk WAS better than KG in 2002-03. KG was better than Dirk in 2003-04.

Why is that so hard to get?

You sound like Raef LaFrentz going for a rebound---you just can't quite grasp it.

[dalmations202]

Originally posted by: WayOutWest

It's one thing to have a point of view, quite another to back it up.

I'll back it up with STATS then.

Jermaine Oneal VS Dirk 2004 Regular Season By ESPN

Dirk wins the PPG
Dirk wins FT %
Dirk has more range
Dirk Win the FG% from a guy ususally shooting in the paint.

YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Playoffs : PPG RPG BPG
2003-2004 77 77 37.9 7.9-17.0 .462 1.3-3.8 .341 4.8-5.5 .877 1.19 1.4 1.8 2.8 1.2 7.5 8.7 2.7 21.8 26.6 11.8 2.6
Dirk wins the Points per shot.


Jermaine Oneal
YEAR G GS MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Playoffs : PPG RPG BPG
2003-2004 78 78 35.7 7.8-17.9 .434 0.0-0.2 .111 4.5-5.9 .757 0.76 2.6 2.3 3.2 2.5 7.5 10.0 2.1 20.1 20.3 8.6 2.1

Jermaine Wins RPG
Jermaine wins the defensive edge

IF the playoffs only count.......well Dirk outperformed him on points, rebounds, and blocks.
If the regular season is what you count, then Dirk still outplayed him in steals, less turnovers, points, assists, FG%, FT%, 3-pt %.
Whether you are talking this season or post-season. Dirk has always outperformed JO. The only players at PF ahead of Dirk, are TD and KG.

The only two places that JO actually wins is RPG, and that is only by 1.3 OFFENSIVE RPG, easily known because Dirk has range, and is outside the paint far more often, and the defensive edge, which is helped GREATLY by having the Defensive Player of the year in Artest in front of him.

Please don't think that JO is in the same ballpark as Dirk...career numbers don't support you. Dirk on an off year, doesn't support you. Yes, Indiana is in the ECF, but Dirk had Dallas in the WCF last year, so no I don't think their is a comparison. Dirk is clearly the better player.

[reeds]

"Dirk WAS better than KG in 2002-03. KG was better than Dirk in 2003-04.

Why is that so hard to get?"

Bullcrap he was...as an all around player, KG has been better this year and LAST...by all means pull out your stats-but you kwow what? Stats dont show Defense...Something KG is great at, and...you know the Rest...Its about all around play, including defense.. Dirk is good, perhaps great...superstar- NO...KG is a superstar, and was last year as well... KG's supporting cast got better this year and look what happened!!! You give him the team Dirk has had his WHOLE career and this wouldnt even be close- its a no brainer..KG had NO help at all until now, its obvious

[Murphy3]

KG and Dirk were very close in 2002-2003
KG was the better rebounder and defender. Dirk was a much more efficient scorer from everywhere on the court. Plus, Dirk was much more clutch (statistically speaking, the best offensive player in the game during the clutch in 2002-2003). Not only that, his performance in the playoffs to this point in his career ranks right up with the all time greats of the game.

This year, KG has taken a big step up offensively and has obviously opened a gap between himself and Dirk. It'll be interesting to see how Dirk responds.

[HeatFan7]

Originally posted by: reeds
"Dirk WAS better than KG in 2002-03. KG was better than Dirk in 2003-04.

Why is that so hard to get?"

Bullcrap he was...as an all around player, KG has been better this year and LAST...by all means pull out your stats-but you kwow what? Stats dont show Defense...Something KG is great at, and...you know the Rest...Its about all around play, including defense.. Dirk is good, perhaps great...superstar- NO...KG is a superstar, and was last year as well... KG's supporting cast got better this year and look what happened!!! You give him the team Dirk has had his WHOLE career and this wouldnt even be close- its a no brainer..KG had NO help at all until now, its obvious

KG>>>>>>>>>>>Dir k

And always has been and most likely will always be, come on fellas!

[Murphy3]

KG might have taken a leap this season that Dirk is incapable of taking. It's definitely possible. KG is perhaps the best player in the league. There's a pretty decent chance that Dirk will never be the best player in the league. However, Dirk is definitely capable of being a top 5 guy. KG is definitely capable of reverting back to the player that he was in 2002-2003 and before. It's one season of separation for KG over Dirk.

[MavKikiNYC]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
It was an interesting game. Webber has clearly fallen off the pedestal for top PFs in the game, as KG takes the top spot alongside Duncan. Webber's choke on that gimme-layup with about a minute left was classsic--as if the basketball gods were saying "NO!"; followed by the errant 3-at the buzzer "For the last time, NO!". Sac should move him if they can. I believe their window with him has closed.

KG looked mostly awesome last night, although he had a couple of missteps at crucial times (missed FT, turnover) that could've cost them. Tough, though not inconceivable, to see him taking down the Lakers. LA looks stacked to stop KG--they can put a former-superstar role player on him (Malone) backed by a current-superstart center waiting in the paint (Shaq), leaving yet another current-superstar 2 to attack from the flank. LA shouldn't try to wait until G3 to start playing again though, or the T'Wolves might be tougher than people seem to think.

Will be interesting to see how close to dominant KG can be in this series.

Hmm....okay, so G1 played out pretty much according to form. KG had a couple of spectacular defensive plays, but otherwise the Lakers totally corraled him in G1. I can buy the argument that he was worn out from the effort in the Sac series, but it's sure not going to get any easier. He will really get a chance to test and/or prove himself in the next 4-6 games.

Love the matchups though. The Lakers are doing the classic division-of-labor thing. Shaq doesn't have to be superstar-dominant on both ends of the floor, he can just concentrate on dominating the T'Wolves centers offensively, and backing up Malone's defensive efforts on KG. Malone doesn't have to worry about taking it to KG on the offensive end, just sit back and wait for the open jumpers to come his way, and conserve his energy to harass KG defensively. Kobe, can be the complete scavenger, roaming on defense to help shut KG down, cutting to the hole offensively while KG and Johnson-Kandi-Madsen-Miller get overmatched by Shaq/Malone.

I can see the T'Wolves bouncing back and taking a game or 2, but hard to see them seriously challenging. Caveat: I had noticed that the Lakers didn't seem to be putting out full-effort last night, which is a bit of a shame because I think they could be pretty awesome if they could get everything together. They probably just haven't had time this year. Maybe they can get synched up this series and start to hit on all cylinders, but I think it could be a really bad setup for them to be able to coast through the T'Wolves series, and hit the winner of the Pistons v. Pacers, who should be primed for a hot series.

Barkely pointed out last night that LA wasn't playing full-out, or even that hard, and he interpreted that as a sign that they didn't fear or respect the T'Wolves. Unfortunately for fans, the Lakers tend to play their best ball when they are challenged.

Burning question: What the hell is wrong with Olowakandi's hair? Nap-o-rama!



LAKERS LEAD SERIES, 1-0
Garnett Has No Encore Against the Lakers
By CHRIS BROUSSARD

Published: May 22, 2004


INNEAPOLIS, May 21 — Kevin Garnett put on a fantastic Game 7 performance in lifting the Minnesota Timberwolves past the Sacramento Kings on Wednesday night. Now, against the Los Angeles Lakers, he will need to display such brilliance every time he takes the floor.

But on Friday night in Game 1 of this Western Conference finals, Garnett, the league's most valuable player, was far from brilliant. He wasn't bad. He just wasn't great.

Whether weary from the grueling semifinal round, bothered by Karl Malone's pesky defense or simply happy to be playing so deep into May, Garnett was unable to put his imprint on the game as the Minnesota Timberwolves struggled to keep step with the Lakers.

In the end, the Lakers' star-studded lineup — and their clutch reserve, Derek Fisher — prevailed. With Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant leading a well-rounded team effort, Los Angeles took the opener, 97-88, at the Target Center. Game 2 is here on Sunday.

As dominant as might be expected against the Timberwolves' cast of underwhelming centers, O'Neal led everyone with 27 points, 18 rebounds and 4 blocks. Kobe Bryant, in a well-controlled performance, added 23 points, 6 assists and 3 steals, and Fisher scored 11 points, every one of them seemingly game-turning.

It was Fisher's 3-pointer with 58 seconds remaining that gave the Lakers a 7-point lead and sank the Timberwolves for good.

The 40-year-old Karl Malone was also strong, putting up better numbers than Garnett in recording 17 points, 11 rebounds and 3 steals.

Garnett, who posted 32 points, 21 rebounds and 5 blocks in the Timberwolves' deciding victory over Sacramento, managed only 16 points and 10 rebounds in Game 1. He shot 7 for 15 from the floor.

But with Malone guarding him well and getting help from his teammates, Garnett never got on track.

"They were coming really fast," Garnett said of the Lakers' double-teams. "They weren't waiting for me to put the ball on the floor. I've got the film. I'll dissect it. I was trying to find my open teammates, but I've got to figure out a way to do that and to be aggressive at the same time. I've got to find my teammates but not be so passive."

Latrell Sprewell led the Timberwolves with 23 points, including 18 in the second half, and Sam Cassell added 16 and 8 assists. Cassell, who has been playing through back spasms, left with a sore back with 1 minute 27 seconds left in the third quarter and did not return.

Thanks to an 11-0 run powered by two 3-pointers and a 20-foot jumper by Fisher, the Lakers took a 78-67 lead into the fourth quarter. But a 3-point barrage by Minnesota's Wally Szczerbiak (two) and Fred Hoiberg (one), as well as the scoring of Sprewell, helped the Timberwolves cut the deficit to 88-86 with 4:03 left.

Devean George answered with a driving dunk and Malone sank a jumper to rebuild the cushion. Szczerbiak hit one more jumper, but Fisher followed that with his late 3-pointer to end all doubt.

One pleasant surprise for the Lakers, and a huge key to the game, was O'Neal's stroke from the foul line. Shooting 37.7 percent from the foul line in the playoffs, O'Neal made 9 of 11 free throws in Game 1.

He credited an article given to him by Coach Phil Jackson. O'Neal said the article was one of "a couple hundred thousand" that Jackson had given him, but the first one that he read.

"It was written by some 80-year-old guy who says he made 3,000 free throws in a row," O'Neal said. "He said when you focus too much and focus too hard, you usually fail. So I stopped focusing on making it and focusing on my fingers and I just focused on my routine. Now my routine is the same every time."

Minnesota, seemingly still inspired after outlasting Sacramento two days ago, took advantage of the Lakers' early lethargy, and surprisingly, it was center Michael Olowokandi who led the way.

Olowokandi produced only 4 points while making 10 turnovers over the last six games he played. Olowokandi, the former No. 1 pick in the draft by the Los Angeles Clippers, had played so poorly that Coach Flip Saunders did not even use him in the final three games against Sacramento.

But after Ervin Johnson picked up two fouls in the first four minutes while trying to guard O'Neal, Saunders grudgingly inserted the 7-foot Olowokandi. Tipping in two shots, dunking another and putting in a nifty jump hook over O'Neal, Olowokandi scored 8 first-quarter points to help the Timberwolves to a 24-23 lead.

Garnett, in an effort reminiscent of his subpar Game 1 performance against Sacramento, scored only 6 points in the first half while committing 3 turnovers.

Garnett's matchup with Malone was viewed as a key entering the series, and Malone got the better of the exchange in the first 24 minutes. Just as he did in slowing San Antonio's Tim Duncan, Malone seemed to be frustrating one of the league's top power forwards.

Malone gave the Lakers the lead with a jumper 35 seconds into the second quarter, and they remained in front for the rest of the half. But with Cassell sinking soft midrange jump shots in scoring 12 points, Minnesota never fell behind by more than 6.

O'Neal carried the Lakers. Knowing he had an even greater mismatch than usual against Olowokandi and Johnson, Los Angeles pounded the ball inside relentlessly. O'Neal responded by scoring 15 first-half points while snagging 8 rebounds and blocking 3 shots to help the Lakers to a 46-44 lead at intermission.

[MavKikiNYC]

G2: A Wild-Card.

Cassell goes out not-to-return in the first minute of the game, and the T'Wolves get a big game out of 33-year-old journeyman Darrick Martin, who more than doubles The Glove's output.

Wally World comes in and plays like All-World, outgunning all of the Lakers' 3-point off-the-benchers combine.

KG put up decent numbers last night, but not what you'd call dominant--9 points in a 3-4 minutes stretch of Q4 with the T'Wolves holding a 14-point lead--, while Shaq has one of the worst games I've ever seen him play--I think he was 1-5 shooting at one point as late as Q4. He barely even looked awake. Totally passive. Very disappointed with his and the Lakers' effort in general.

I like what the T'Wolves are doing to Shaq defensively--with Ervin Johnson, Kandi Pants, Oliver Miller an MadDog Madsen each taking a rotation on him, and fouling him anytime he's in position to score. They totally kept him from getting any momentum, and he basically just looked slothful out there. It will be interesting to see how he responds in G3, but I can't understand how he could come out and play like such an uninspired putz when a Lakers win here could've blown the T'Wolves off the court and out of the water.

Key to G3: Karl Malone picked up two early ticky-tack fouls in Q1, and I think that changed the Lakers' defensive game-plan against Garnett. Then he went and drew attention to himself with an unnecessarily hard foul in Q4, which means that the referees will be giving him extra scrutiny in the coming games. Same for Gary Payton--all that foolish jawing at the end of the game with the game out of reach does not help the Lakers it just raises the likelihood of a more tightly called game, whcih helps the T'Wolves more than the Lakers. Malone has to play Garnett physically and aggressively, and stay out of foul trouble. If he does, Lakers can shackle Garnett, which will leave Gimpy Cassell, Latrine Sprewell, and Wally World to beat them---I think the Lakers'll take that chance.

I expect a much better effort from the Lakers in G3. Then again, I didn't expect them to let out such a stinker of an effort yesterday either. Series got slightly more interesting yesterday.

[WayOutWest]

Originally posted by: dalmations202
Please don't think that JO is in the same ballpark as Dirk...career numbers don't support you. Dirk on an off year, doesn't support you. Yes, Indiana is in the ECF, but Dirk had Dallas in the WCF last year, so no I don't think their is a comparison. Dirk is clearly the better player.

Not in the same ballpark? Homerism at its worse. Statwise Dirk is probably a better center than a PF, probably the 3rd best center behind TD and JO. Dirk statistically out performs Shaq at the center spot but who in their right mind would take Dirk over Shaq (just pointing out that stats don't tell the WHOLE story).

Dirk is still very limited defensively. TD, KG and JO are all better one-on-one AND team defenders. Nobody worries about Dirk blocking or even challenging a shot at the rim. That's why I would take JO ahead of Dirk and why IMO he's a better overall player. Offensively Dirk is better but you don't draw too many fouls on the opposing team jacking up jumpshots and like you said that also hurts him on the offensive boards.

I like Dirk much more than that whiney little bitch JO but I would still pick JO ahead of Dirk if I was building a team.