Moore and Lehane running scared

[FishForLunch]

ANNOUNCER: From the press room, to the courtroom, to the halls of Congress, Joe Scarborough has seen it all. Welcome to SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY.

SCARBOROUGH: Well, well, well, Michael Moore is running scared. It‘s time for tonight‘s “Real Deal.”

After boldly proclaiming that he is going to debate anybody anytime anyplace anywhere, Michael Moore is proving once again that he is not a man of his word. Now, of course, you know we have challenged Mr. Moore to debate on our show for months now. We have asked him to come on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY and defend his April 2004 statements declaring that the United Nations should not send troops to Iraq because more Americans need to bleed and die there, and that those killing Americans in Iraq aren‘t the enemy, but rather they are the revolution the and Minutemen, who are sure to win their battle against the occupation.

Now, we know that Moore‘s claim on “David Letterman” and other shows about debating us was just another lie, but we were really surprised today when we learned now that Michael Moore‘s spokesman is afraid to come on our show not just to debate us, but debate “Vanity Fair”‘s Christopher Hitchens. It seems that Mr. Hitchens debated Moore a few years back and beat him up very badly after the Flint folly proclaimed that Osama bin Laden was to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

This, of course, was a year after bin Laden admitted to killing 3,000 Americans on September 11. For those who have seen “Fahrenheit 9/11,” you know that Michael Moore‘s claim of bin Laden‘s innocence reveals yet another glaring hypocrisy in the central theme running through his latest mockumentary, another brazen claim, another Michael Moore lie.

And yet the Democratic establishment continues to embrace Michael Moore. You know what? It‘s a national disgrace. And it‘s tonight‘s “Real Deal.”

Now, as I said, “Vanity Fair”‘s Christopher Hitchens is with us. He debated Michael Moore in 2002 at the Telluride Film Festival and was surprised that Moore still considered Osama bin Laden to be an innocent man one year after September 11.

Christopher, thanks for joining us.

Can you tell us when Michael Moore and his spokesman are afraid to come on our show and say—and, in fact, they told us, we are not coming on SCARBOROUGH COUNTRY if Christopher Hitchens is there. What is that all about?

CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS, “VANITY FAIR”: I didn‘t know that until just now, but I am not sure if it‘s an honor or not, to be frank with you.

I wrote 4,000-word review of this film, which is full of lies and is itself a lie, on “Slate” magazine, what, nine days ago now. And I said to them, you have a war room, you claim, you have lawyers, you claim, who will sue anything you don‘t like. You have a rapid response team, so bring it on. And I know, without boasting—I hope I don‘t seem arrogant, but...

SCARBOROUGH: Never, sir.

HITCHENS: That was that week‘s most blogged piece, as the Internet specialists say. In other words, it was the most linked article on the Internet. A lot of people read it. And it flatly calls him as a liar and a fraud and a coward.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: What were the most fraudulent claims, Christopher?

(CROSSTALK)

HITCHENS: ... traitor to journalism. And I said, so, get back to me.

Not one word from, who is this guy, Chris someone.

SCARBOROUGH: What was the most fraudulent claim that Michael Moore made in this movie?

HITCHENS: Well, that‘s a very tough question, but I think I would phrase it like this.

He says, if you think Americans are fighting in Afghanistan to protect Afghanistan and America from the Taliban and al Qaeda and hold an election in Afghanistan, the first one in its history, and to defend it from barbarism, Moore says, you are totally wrong. The whole war is about Bush family private business and a pipeline, a natural gas pipeline. I think he suggested an oil pipeline, built by Unocal.

Now, I know and anyone who knows anything about it knows, that deal was canceled in 1998, when Bush was still governor of Texas, as a result of Mr. Clinton bombing the al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan. The theory isn‘t even worth arguing about. It‘s a whole-cloth fabrication, as well as a terrifying insult to Americans in Afghanistan who are fighting on the front line against barbarism. So that‘s one enormously important lie.

And then he says the Saudi Arabia control all of American foreign policy through private interests. And then you wonder, well, why does President Bush, who is their puppet, continue to knock over regimes that Saudis are in favor of, like the Saddam Hussein regime or the Taliban one? The Saudis so much hated regime change in Iraq, they made American bases move to Qatar, out of Saudi territory.

You could go on and on. He says that the White House at high level let the bin Laden family fly out of the country in a secret, surreptitious, sinister manner. And he had interviewed Richard Clarke months before. And Clarke says straight out, I made that call. Richard Clarke is the moral hero of the film. Michael Moore had the chance to ask the man who knew. Either he didn‘t ask Clarke, who authorized those flights, or Clarke told him it was me and only me, and he didn‘t think it was good enough to use.

SCARBOROUGH: Now, Christopher, you...

HITCHENS: Either way, that‘s below the level of trash TV, trash journalism.

SCARBOROUGH: You brought a tape of yourself debating Michael Moore in September 2002 at the Telluride Film Festival. And here‘s what he said about Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda. Let‘s take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER/AUTHOR: It seems as if he and his group were the ones who did this, then they should be tracked down, captured, and brought to justice.

HITCHENS: Do you mind if I break in and say...

MOORE: Yes.

HITCHENS: Ask you, what is the “if” doing in that last sentence?

MOORE: What is the who?

HITCHENS: What is the “if” doing in that last sentence of yours?

MOORE: Well, all people are innocent until proven guilty in this country.

HITCHENS: So you have no...

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: Even the worst piece of scum.

HITCHENS: I feel I have to press you on that. You regard it as an open question, the responsibility of Osama bin Laden?

MOORE: Until anyone is convicted of any crime, no matter how horrific the crime, they are innocent until proven guilty. And as Americans...

(CROSSTALK)

HITCHENS: No, that‘s all I asked you.

MOORE: Never leave that position.

HITCHENS: I‘m sorry. So bin Laden‘s claims of responsibility strike you as the ravings of a clowns, say?

(LAUGHTER)

HITCHENS: OK. Fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCARBOROUGH: Unbelievable.

(CROSSTALK)

HITCHENS: And doesn‘t he look gorgeous?

SCARBOROUGH: He does. This is a year after 9/11.

(CROSSTALK)

HITCHENS: And so smart and so clever at catching people saying something dumb in the street. Can you imagine what he would have said or Terry McAuliffe, this fatuous chairman of the DNC, would have said if President Bush a year after 9/11 had said, well, I think the jury is still out on Osama bin Laden, we can‘t do a thing, and also referred to him as if he was a well placed citizen of Rapid City or somewhere, an American citizen with all the protections of the Constitution? It‘s beyond farce.

SCARBOROUGH: You know, Christopher, though, let me expand on this tape a little bit, though, because, as you know, you have seen the movie. I have seen the movie. Here you have Michael Moore saying a year after 3,000 Americans are killed...

HITCHENS: Murdered. Murdered. Murdered.

SCARBOROUGH: Murdered, murdered—that Osama bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty, and yet, in this movie, at the very beginning, he criticizes George Bush for not assuming the bin Laden family is somehow guilty, then letting them out of the country. Complete hypocrisy.

(CROSSTALK)

HITCHENS: That‘s why I looked to see if I still had the tape, because I thought, now, a guy who was 100 percent opposed to the war in Afghanistan at the time—that‘s Michael Moore—he thought it was a war for oil, a war for pipelines, an unjust war—why is he suddenly saying he is against the Iraq war because it‘s the distraction from the hunt for Osama bin Laden? You follow my point here?

SCARBOROUGH: Of course.

HITCHENS: Why does someone who thought that Osama was innocent and Afghanistan was no problem suddenly switch in this way? Because unless he says that he was dead wrong all along and Osama Laden was innocent and wronged, he can‘t say that everything else is a distraction from the hunt for Osama.

So it‘s bait and switch. It‘s the work of a moral cretin and a political idiot. And it‘s up to the Democratic National Committee to say, do they want to continue being photographed with this man as we go into a very important election, not just in the United States, I might add, but first Democratic elections to be held in Iraq and in Afghanistan?

In a few months, we will know the outcome of all these. In all three cases, Michael Moore says that the enemy is George Bush and Saddam Hussein and Mr. Zarqawi and Mr. Bin Laden are no problem. Indeed, they are—what a wonderful way to celebrate the Fourth of July weekend, by the way. Indeed, they are the Minutemen. They‘re the staunch American revolutionaries.

Does he tell this to the widows that he goes and exploits?

SCARBOROUGH: Well, Christopher....

(CROSSTALK)

HITCHENS: Does he say to them, I love the people who killed your son or your husband or your father?

SCARBOROUGH: They are the Minutemen.

HITCHENS: Does he dare do that? If he does do that once and film himself, I will say he is courageous.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: Yes.

Let me read you a couple of quotes here. And I put these quotes in here because I wanted you to respond and actually tell me what it meant about the Democratic Party that you have got Terry McAuliffe and other people embracing this man.

Here‘s what Michael Moore had to say on the people killing America‘s troops in Iraq, and it‘s a follow-up on what you are saying: “The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not insurgents or terrorists or the enemy. They are the revolution, the Minutemen. And their numbers will grow. And they will win.”

And here‘s more, Christopher. He said on the same day: “The majority of Americans supported this war once it began. And, sadly, that majority must now sacrifice their children until enough blood has been let that maybe—just maybe—God and the Iraqi people will forgive us in the end.”

And, of course, there, Michael Moore is saying he doesn‘t want the United Nations or other countries‘ troops to go into Iraq because he believes more Americans need to die there, or, as he says, their blood needs to be let.

HITCHENS: Congressman.

SCARBOROUGH: So, correspondent for “Vanity Fair.”

(CROSSTALK)

HITCHENS: Don‘t step over where he says, God and Iraqi people won‘t forgive.

You are effectively, with the Michael Moore presentation, you are looking straight down the gun barrel of an al Qaeda video. God and the Iraqi people won‘t forgive? He is talking the language of jihad. This guy is on the other side in the most essential war that this country or society or culture has fought in a generation.

SCARBOROUGH: Why?

HITCHENS: Against Islamic totalitarianism.

Why is he against it? If you want my personal opinion, as someone who has observed Mr. Moore down the years, I don‘t think he has any principles at all. He will do anything to get applause, as you can see from the little clip you just showed. He likes applause from stupid crowds and he punches the applause button.

I would like to know, and I wish you would ask—and perhaps Mr. Lehane could be made to answer this question—who is distributing this film in the Middle East? I would like to know that now. How much money does Mr. Moore expect to make, since he is so interested in money making from Middle Eastern sources? How much does he expect to make when the film is shown in Beirut and Algeria and Cairo?

He must already know who his distributors are and how much he expects from the revenue. He is going to show this film that applauds the murder of Americans, Iraqis, British and Kurdish people all over the Middle East. He expects to do very well out of it. Well, I would like to know where he thinks the money is coming from and if he thinks it‘s worth it.

And I hope he can relax and enjoy that money.

SCARBOROUGH: All right, well, we are going to look into that, Christopher. Thank you for being with us.

(CROSSTALK)

SCARBOROUGH: I think, as you know, it bears repeating that the U.K. “Guardian” reported just last week that Hezbollah has already contacted his distributor in the United Arab Emirates and offered their support and their help in distributing the movie. And I think that says an awful lot itself.

Now, coming up, there‘s a man who beat and killed his daughter, but now he‘s back on the streets of New York. We have got the story on the release of the monster Joel Steinberg next.

Then, she‘s a role model to millions of girls, whether parents like it or not. She‘s about to get married for the second time this year to a man who is expecting a child with another woman. What messages do these choices send to your teen daughter? And why are celebrity magazines celebrating Britney‘s bad behavior?

We‘ll have that answer coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)