Protesters Are Anti-G.O.P., but Democrats Don't Claim Them

[Epitome22]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/29/po.../29groups.html


Protesters Are Anti-G.O.P., but Democrats Don't Claim Them


By DIANE CARDWELL

Published: August 29, 2004


or weeks now, Republican Party leaders have signaled that they plan to blame Democrats for any mayhem stemming from protests during the convention in Manhattan, with the G.O.P.'s chairman, Ed Gillespie, saying there is a thin line between labor, environmental and antiwar protesters and the Democratic Party hierarchy.

Many groups planning demonstrations do have a close affinity to the Democratic Party. But as protest organizers scrambled through their last week of preparations, two major themes emerged: the leadership of the protest effort is deeply fractured, and the many groups flooding New York's streets are poorly coordinated and under no central control.

Members of the largest antiwar coalition, for instance, could not agree on how to settle arrangements for its demonstration, set for today, and many other groups are practically tripping over one another with competing news conferences, attention-grabbing events and overlapping political messages.

On Wednesday, for example, as the War Resisters League was downtown announcing plans to march from ground zero this week for a "die-in" at Madison Square Garden, Al Franken, the comedian and radio host, was in Midtown, amusing reporters with his "shout-out" project.

At the same time, a protest billboard counting the dollars spent on the Iraq war lighted up in Times Square, sandwiched between a Sean John clothing advertisement and a Baby Phat billboard showing Kimora Lee Simmons wearing nothing but sneakers and bling.

Even though most protests are aimed squarely at the Bush administration, there is little evidence that Democratic Party officials are at the helm. Indeed, Democratic leaders have been worrying that angry images of demonstrators shouting, clashing with the police or damaging property will be used to tar their party, as historians say occurred after the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, when violent antiwar protests were seen as hurting the party's cause. As a result, party officials say, a focus of the spin operation they set up last week about 10 blocks from the convention site at Madison Square Garden will be to counter Republican efforts to link them to protest mishaps or violence.

"We have no connection to any of the protesters," the chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Terry McAuliffe, said on Thursday in announcing the party's war room. "I have implored everyone to make sure that the Republicans have a peaceful convention."

But the Republicans see it differently, even warning delegates that Democratic protesters will try to make it hard for them to get around the city. "Many of those organizing the protests were involved in the Democratic National Convention and are strong John Kerry allies," said Ray Sullivan, a former press aide to George W. Bush who is working with the communications team for the convention. "We expect their message to be very similar to the message coming out of Boston."

Mr. Sullivan said he would not speculate on the political ramifications of potential disorder, but he added, "The people behind many of the protests and many of these groups are seasoned Democratic operatives and allies and should be able to put on their events in peaceful and safe ways."

Nevertheless, while few people say they expect a repeat of the mayhem of 1968, the events of the past week suggest that there will be disruptive demonstrations. Already, the protesters, some naked, some on bikes, have been snarling traffic - and signs, banners and fliers are cropping up throughout the city. On Friday night, in the first major clash between demonstrators and the police, more than 250 people were arrested for biking through the city in an anti-Bush protest. And today, law enforcement officials are girding for protesters expected to descend on Central Park, many of them in defiance of bans on political rallies on the Great Lawn.

But Democrats say that the people who are likely to cause trouble are not the party faithful.

"I think the public knows that the people who get really agitated and at times violent are kind of out of the mainstream and aren't really operating in the context of a political debate," said John D. Podesta, who was chief of staff to President Bill Clinton and is president of the Center for American Progress, a research institute. "Since the party can't really control these protests and these people, I think the only thing you can do is disassociate yourself from the tactics and try to keep the public focused on the big picture," he added.


The protest landscape, ranging from established groups like Planned Parenthood and the A.F.L.-C.I.O. to anarchists bent on undoing the country's corporate structure, is disparate and fragmented. And some groups have found themselves in the uneasy position of trying to balance a desire for inclusiveness and lack of hierarchy with the need to assert enough control to avoid chaos. Law enforcement officials, while emphasizing that the vast majority of protesters are peaceful, say that organizers have no way of controlling how many or which people show up at their events and what their motives may be.

Some groups have tailored their methods to minimize the chances for a political boomerang. Mr. Franken's "shout-out,'' in which he is encouraging people to throw open their windows and engage in a loud spurt of collective anti-Bush venting as President Bush takes the stage on Thursday, is one example. "It won't tax the public safety structure," he said. "We think that this provides a way for people who really want to do something to do it in a way that can't be used by the Republicans to say, 'Look at these unruly Democrats.' "

United for Peace and Justice, whose long-anticipated march is scheduled to begin at noon today, has been working furiously to make sure protesters deliver a strong antiwar message that cannot be distorted. Part of the message, said Leslie Cagan, national coordinator for United for Peace and Justice, is not simply that so many people are opposed to the war in Iraq but that they come from all walks of life. As a result, the demonstrators will march behind the coalition's leaders in thematic groups, beginning with a combination of veterans, military families and relatives of victims of the Sept. 11 attacks.

"We are doing everything we can to be clear about what our plans are and to set a tone," Ms. Cagan said. "The notion that just because we are speaking out it will lead to conflict is an assumption that doesn't have to be made. But also the notion that should there be a conflict, that a party would use that to their own political advantage, is inappropriate."

But some protesters interested in making their own statements, whether antigovernment, anticorporate, antipoverty or pro-civil liberties, are unconcerned with whether they will undermine the Democrats.

"If we don't get out there and protest the way we want to and as forcefully as we can, then we lose our rights and it doesn't matter who's president," said Eric Laursen, who is organizing a day of civil disobedience on Tuesday with a group called the A31 Action Coalition.

Referring to how protesters could be portrayed in the news media, he said: "You don't even have to be doing anything violent. All you have to be doing is looking like a bunch of angry people behind metal barricades and people think, 'Well, the cops have to deal with that.' If you follow it out to its logical conclusion, the only thing you can do is stay home."

Of course, it is possible that whatever happens in the streets will not make a tremendous difference in what happens in voting booths in November.

"I don't think there will be a lot of movement on the basis of protests," said Kieran Mahoney, a Republican political consultant. Unless something particularly unusual happens, he added, "it seems like the people who are voting for Bush love him and the people who are voting for Kerry really hate him, and there's not a lot of people who hate George Bush who are going to suddenly not hate him based on the protesters."

[MavKikiNYC]

Hmm...that headline is eerily analgous to the delegates to the Democratic National Convention.

[dude1394]

They may "SAY" they don't claim them(sort of like sayhing they are not a liberal party), but their rhethoric, causes and politics does.

[Epitome22]

Hardly. I know Conservatives like to paint with broad brushes and assume that any and everything to the left of them is one giant cohesive organization all with ties to one another. This "red team vs blue team" mentality, and ignorance to the notion that any singular group could be in opposition to conservatives/republicans without support for or sponsorship by the Democratic party is one of my biggest pet peeves about Conservatives. For the record, most of these groups (and there's much more than you think) can't even agree with eachother muchless cohesively oppose the G.O.P. Most of these exact same groups were protesting at the Democratic National convention too, saying Kerry was a corporate whore and no better than Bush.

Most people in these organizations consider the Democrats to be just as bad or little better than Republicans. Democrats may be in opposition to Republicans too but they are "legitimate" politicians that operate within a framework. They aren't radicals, don't organize radical activity and try to distance themselves from it. That's precisely why they are trying to disassociate themselves from many of these protest groups. Because they no the radical unruly image and activity will hurt them. Especially since the G.O.P. have admitted that they will try to spin any anti-G.O.P. activity as directly sponsored by the Democratic party.

[dude1394]

Yup...that's why they descended on boston in such droves. keep spinning there pard.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Yup...that's why they descended on boston in such droves. keep spinning there pard.

I'm sorry, were you at the Democratic National convention? Because if you weren't, or unless you can produce some sort of insider knowledge from a source that proves I'm lying about Far Left wing groups protesting the democratic national convention( our own Dallas Morning news ran a story about it btw), perhaps you should keep that lack of knowledge and idiotic reasoning to yourself.

[dude1394]

Get real.. Show me all of the news clips of the nudists against kerry at the dnc, etc., etc.. Show the links since YOU somehow have this insider knowledge, share it with us.

[dude1394]

I'll help you chuckles.

rnc protestors

Thousands of Demonstrators Hit NYC Streets

42 minutes ago


By TOM RAUM, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - Tens of thousands of demonstrators took to the fortified streets of Manhattan on Sunday to protest President Bush (news - web sites)'s foreign and domestic policies as Republican delegates gathered to nominate the president for a second term

And a little photo action.

photos of protestors

I especially like these democrat supporters.

Anti-capitalists

Communists/socialists



And of course...just the nuts.


Maybe the dems can call it the heartland tour group?

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: dude1394
I'll help you chuckles.

rnc protestors

And a little photo action.

photos of protestors

I especially like these democrat supporters.

Anti-capitalists

Communists/socialists



And of course...just the nuts.


Maybe the dems can call it the heartland tour group?

Oh...couldn't quite without showing two of my favorite people..
The racial huckster Jessie Jackson and the Maggot Moore. Wonder what they are protesting?? Life?? Who knows, but I'm sure they will make a buck out of it.

[knowitall]

Even though I refuse to lump all of the "right camp" together, this forum does seem to harbour and exhibit an unexplainable darkness toward opposition from the left. They could at least pretend to be a bit more civilized.

[dude1394]

Yes knowitall. This is predominantly a forum that has a bunch of conservative folks in it. However except for a few (drbio, epitome) I don't really see a lot of name-calling. For example how is posting photos of the actual protestors in new york doing any more than exposing fact.

Now I do admit quite a hatred for the maggot moore. I don't like racial hucksters much either. But epitome posts something about how the dems DON"T claim all of these groups, but they are predominatly democrat advocacy groups. It's posted as if true, the reality seems otherwise.

[knowitall]

I like the picture of that handsome lady. There are some people from all walks of life that will do anything to draw attention to themselves. Give a little more credit. Let's call him/her "nuts with guts".

[dude1394]

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: dude1394
Get real.. Show me all of the news clips of the nudists against kerry at the dnc, etc., etc.. Show the links since YOU somehow have this insider knowledge, share it with us.

Are you REALLY this stupid? (Yes) here, let me help you out with this little thing called a search engine. Here's what I come up with in 'DNC' and 'Protest' the first things I run across





"http://capedmaskedandarmed.com/photo/DNC04/#"

Here's a website featuring numerous photos of DNC protesters in Boston. Including those same bicycling dorks.

"http://www.trowbridge.org/gallery/protesting_the_dnc?page=3"

Here's another picture gallery of DNC protesters with great things to say about Kerry


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1178255/posts

Here's a snippet of a CNN article with Leslie Cagan and her complaining about unfair treatment of protesters of the DNC. Your repub buddies at the site did into her.


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1177016/posts

Here's another article about the Black Tea party bitching about being potentially caged while protesting the democratic party. Your brownshirt buddies rip into them following suit.


http://www.wbur.org/photogallery/new....asp?counter=1

Here's yet another photo gallery DNC protesters proclaiming their love for Democrats

http://www.sdimc.org/en/2004/08/105232.shtml

Here's a link with a few pictures and someone recalling their experience during the DNC protests and their conflicts with another anti-democrat group.

And there's more where that came from. I can give you a list of sites with some recaps about the week long anti-dnc protesting. Or you can just go to Freerepublic.com and look in their database for all the stories about the far left anti-dncers and laugh along with your brownshirt buddies.

Then again. There's always the possibility that there really were no protesters of the dnc and that it's all a ploy by the liberal jew media.

[dude1394]

Found a link to the group that the maggot moore and the reverend jessie are marching for in nyc.

united for peach and justice

It's way to long to post here. But here are a few choice bits.

Al-Awda, Palestine Right to Return Coalition - CT Chapter
Anti-Capitalist Convergence
Anti-Imperialist News Service
Anti-War Anti-Racism Effort (AWARE)
Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism (CCDS)
Communist Party - Maryland
Communist Party - New York
Communist Party- Central Indiana
Communist Party USA
Corporate Lawyers Against War
Hip-Hop Against Racist War
No Blood For Oil
Psychoanalysts for Peace and Justice
Punks For Peace
Queer to the Left
Queers for Economic Justice
Queers For Peace and Justice
Queers For Racial & Economic Justice
SACHE (Anyone know what this one is??)
School of the Americas Watch (SOAW)

SOA Watch is an independent organization that seeks to close the US Army School of the Americas, under whatever name it is called, through vigils and fasts, demonstrations and nonviolent protest, as well as media and legislative work.


The below group looks right out of the democrat handbook to me. How can we say these protestors are not part of the democrat constituency?

Socialist Alternative
No cuts in public services: full funding for all community needs.
A massive public spending increase in health, housing, education, childcare, leisure and community facilities paid for by taxes on the rich.
Cancel the national debt with no payment to the big investors. Use the money to rebuild the inner cities and the infrastructure under union conditions and wages.
Free, high quality public education for all, from preschool to college.
Free, socialized medicine under democratic control.
End pollution and environmental destruction with massive investment to clean up the environment.
End discrimination and prejudice on the grounds of race, sex, ethnic background, sexuality and disability. Equal pay for equal work.
Defend abortion rights; for the right of women to choose.
Defend immigrant rights; papers for all.
End police brutality and harassment through laborcommunity committees to control all aspects of public safety.
Mass pickets and militant action to stop union busting, plant closures and layoffs.
A minimum wage of $12.50/hour or $500 per week minimum guaranteed Income.
No Workfare or prison labor, guaranteed training and a job for all.
A 30 hour work week without loss of pay.

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: Epitome22

Are you REALLY this stupid? (Yes) here, let me help you out with this little thing called a search engine. Here's what I come up with in 'DNC' and 'Protest' the first things I run across
"http://capedmaskedandarmed.com/photo/DNC04/#"

So let's go there and see what we see? Seems mostly a bunch of folks riding bikes. But let's look at the photos and see what they are wanting, shall we.

Fist 8 or 9 a bunch of bike guys holding their bikes up.

Aha...a political statement.. This person is against free trade.

And the next photo.....Hmm this person seems to be against bush. Unless that's kerry in a flight suit?

But HERE is an anti-kerry protestor... You got me on this one.

This person seems to be against the patriot act... Hmm...I think the dems are also against the patriot act...but it's hard to tell with kerry

This person doesn't like much of anything. I expect he's also in ny.


So epitome...All you've shown me with your attacks is that most of these protestors do JUST like to protest, but that they are still predominatly democrat constituencies. As expected.

[Epitome22]

No. What I've shown you is that a large percentage of the protesters that make up the "far Left" in this country are not in league with, in support of, and in fact HATE the democratic party. Rational, sensible people would at least come to the conclusion (and have long before this) that the Democratic party and these groups spreading pamplets that say that the communists weren't RADICAL enough are hardly in league with eachother. Not the dude however, this is how the dude's mind works


"This protester doesen't like the Patriot act...Democrats don't like the patriot act, Hmmm.....coincidence? I think not"

[knowitall]

Republicans "too often" make war their first tool of action. What we need is someone who can balance national security with broad international support. There is a lot to be said for cooperative intelligence. Real trust will be required for unilateral success. The kind of trust that's built on shared values. Not the kind that's created from fear and strongarmed pressure by threat.

[dude1394]

Maybe you are right knowitall.. Maybe go back to the clinton national security policies that worked so well.

I just got finished working out and watching all of the non-partisan demonstraters in NY. I couldn't believe how few anti-bush demonstraters there were. The number of anti-kerry signs out there was astonishing.

[dude1394]

As I mentioned I spent the last hour watching the protestors in NYC. First kudos to the brave, patient NYC cops. But I was surprised to see some intelligent signs at the protest march.. Here were two that I took note of...quite clever..there is more substance to the lefties than I thought.

[u2sarajevo]

Protest Warrior is no leftist organization. They are very much a Conservative anti-protest organization. Those signs are meant to mock the liberal protestors.

[dude1394]

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

But I DID see them.

[knowitall]

Every time I see someone write "that maggot Moore" I laugh so hard I can barely type! He must have dug that needle in pretty deep, huh!

[dude1394]

Yes he did... There was one post (probably in the maggot moore thread) where an american soldier was describing how his propaganda was affecting his comrades morale. It's unconcionable to me. To seem him honored in the kerry box at the DNC convention also tells me a lot about the democrat party. maybe not yourself, but it does me.

[knowitall]

I'm not aware of any alliance between Kerry and Moore prior to or during production. It might have occured, it might not have. You mentioned that a soldier reported morale issues involving his/her comrades. Don't you think it would at least be fair to guess that some soldiers considered certain points of the movie to possibly be valid? Calling it nothing but propaganda suggest some kind of preconceived arrangement between Kerry and Moore. Ginsberg said he had to leave the campaign because of his attachment to the swiftboat vets and how he felt it was the only thing he could do. Is that propaganda? After all, how long did it take this "weighty moral dilemma" to tap into his conscious?

[dude1394]

Either they thought it was valid, or it is very clever propaganda. IMO it is the latter as most of his junk seems to have been fisked repeatedly by many.

Calling it propaganda has nothing to do with kerry, and I don't think the maggot moore necessarily did coordinate with kerry. He was too busy trying to make a buck by selling out his country. What I fault the dems for is allowing him to be seated in such a place of honor at their convention..

I cannot think of a similar republican that is equivalent. If you can then imagine that person sitting in the RNC box with Dubya's mom and dad. It's approving of his hate message. They should be ashamed but I'm not sure that party can anymore.

[dude1394]

Prettiest communist I've seen. [img]i/expressions/heart.gif[/img]

[knowitall]

I respect your thoughts regarding Moore's appearence at the dnc. Didn't watch, but I trust that you did. I would like a follow up, though, on Ginsgerg's "encounter" with swiftboat vets. Seem's a little fishy. I noticed that you didn't address my curiosity. The idea that people intrenched in the Bush camp had no prior knowledge of this "encounter" seems unbelievable. So, convince me.

[dude1394]

Didn't catch the ginsberg reference. From what I understand ginsberg is a lawyer for the bush campaign. The swifties after they began to get some rumblings of lawsuits or even if not, hired a lawyer to make sure they were on the up and up with respect to 527 law. They went to Ginsberg for that advice. When the charges of the kerry and the dnc were picked up by the media, ginsberg decided to resign rather than have the appearance continue to be made. I think that the level of proof for the 'pubs versus the dems are quite different in the media. For instance ginsberg says that there are lawyers for moveon and media fund that are acting in the same capacity that he was, but no resignations there. Nor any kind of investigation into the democrat 527-kerry connections at all.

For example of dem lawyers serving on 527 groups, but no outcry from the media or any move for this person to resign.

Law firms on the Democratic side are also representing both the campaign or party and outside groups running ads in the presidential race. Washington attorney Joe Sandler represents the Democratic National Committee and a group airing anti-Bush ads, MoveOn.org.

Here's cnn on it. ginsberg
The swifities first came out many,many months ago but didn't generate any interest until they published their first ad. If there is any sort of link, it's loose at best. The swifites are not doing this for bush, they are doing it because they hate kerry's guts.

[dude1394]

Well the dems may not want to claim them but they won't have too it seems.

100,000 march in Manhattan against Bush

FRASER NELSON IN NEW YORK

MORE than 100,000 protesters flooded the streets of Manhattan yesterday as a rainbow coalition of anti-war, anti-capitalist, gay rights and pro-choice campaigners united in a march against President George Bush.

[knowitall]

Thanks for the update on protesters. Not watching. Swiftboats went to Ginsberg before ads launched. That is my take.....By the way, have you noticed I've abandoned my Burnt Toast delivery for a more Milk Bath approach?

[dude1394]

If that means engaging in civil back and forth...yes. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[knowitall]

It was before swiftboat vet ads ran. Then Patterson,(not sure if that is the guy) was called to receive letter from Cleland for the Bush camp in Crawford. Patterson couldn't recall who contacted him from the Bush camp. Not the "swiftist" evasion, wouldn't you agree?

[dude1394]

I guess terry mccauliffe isn't fooled by epitome either.

McAuliffe pleads for peace to focus on GOP record
By Alexander Bolton

Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe made a plea for peace yesterday to the hundreds of thousands of protesters who have swarmed to New York march against the Republican convention.

“Please make it peaceful,” McAuliffe said during the first Democratic press conference of the week at the national party’s New York headquarters. “We want people to see what’s going on in Madison Square Garden.”


Republicans have made it clear that they will link any protests that disrupt their activities to the Democratic Party.

But McAuliffe and other Democrats said they do not want violence in the streets to overshadow what President Bush says on the campaign trail and what Republicans say in the convention hall.

They denied any effort by their party to organize or spur the protests, even though the crowds that clogged the streets of Manhattan yesterday were evidently heavily Democratic.

The Democratic Party had nothing to do with the protests,” McAuliffe said. Yet he claimed with a tone of satisfaction and some slight underestimation that Democrats drew only 60 protesters in Boston.

Democrats pounced on two of Bush’s recent statements: his recent acknowledgment that the failure to anticipate the hostile environment in postwar Iraq was the greatest mistake of his administration, and his assessment in a “Today” show interview aired yesterday that the war on terror could not be won.

“I don’t think you can win,” said Bush when asked if the United States could win the war on terror. “But we can create conditions so that those who use terror are less acceptable in parts of the world.”

Democrats attempted to wield Bush’s statement to deflect attention from Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) support of Bush on the campaign trail, a touchy subject for Democrats as McCain is a personal friend of Kerry’s and one of the most influential Vietnam veterans in the country.

“I’m curious to see what Senator McCain will say after the president says we can’t win the war on terror,” said McAuliffe.

Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack (D), who along with McAuliffe will serve as the Democratic Party’s two regular spokesmen throughout the convention, accused Bush of not being willing to devote enough resources to homeland security to protect cities such as New York and rural parts of the country such as his home state.

“A president who says you can’t win the war on terror is a president who is choosing between urban centers and rural areas,” Vilsack said.

McAuliffe also said that over the next two months until the election, “We’re going to spend our time on job creation, healthcare and education,” an indication that Democrats plan to focus on domestic issues on which polls shows they enjoy an advantage over Republicans. McAuliffe’s statement could signal a strategic shift away from Kerry’s war record and national security issues.

Polls show that Republicans are stronger on national security and Kerry’s record in Vietnam has been tarnished by high profile attacks from Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a Republican-allied 527 group.

The war room that Democrats set up to counter the GOP message during the New York convention, several blocks south of the convention hall, is a much bigger operation than the opposition center Republicans’ set up in Boston.

Nearly 80 Democratic staffers have set up shop in a labyrinth of 20 offices just outside the convention’s security perimeter to try to demonstrate to the American public that Bush’s first priority is to fight for special interests, in the words of McAuliffe. But that message may be undermined by the fact that the building housing the Democratic message center is owned by Unite, a textile workers union and one of the most powerful special interests on the left.

By contrast, only 30 staffers manned the Republican opposition center in Boston, a more polished and less obtrusive venture.

“It’s bedlam,” said Matt Bennett, a harried Democratic spokesman, in between giving tours and interviews to reporters.

Whereas Republicans housed their war room in a squat building on the outskirts of the Fleet Center, distinguished by nothing but a Kerry-Edwards placard in one of its windows, the Democratic headquarters is advertised by a massive banner declaring “Save America. Defeat Bush.”

And unlike the GOP center in Boston, which allowed entry only to invited guests on a list, aides stood outside the Democratic headquarters waving inside anyone with a press pass.

That sense of ease is likely fostered by the knowledge that there are more like-minded protesters in town than Republican delegates.

[Epitome22]

Isn't fooled by Epitome either? He's saying the exact same thing I did.

[Drbio]

A group of protesters chanting "No more Bush, Kerry is the man" was asked to move off a street yesterday according to radio reports this morning. At that point, the policeman was beaten by several of the protesters. I am trying to find a link, but it was on the news this morning.