Plainclothes New York police officer beaten unconscious by anti-Bush demonstrators

[Evilmav2]

Scores Arrested in Anti-Bush Protests in New York

Aug 31, 6:31 PM (ET)

By Mark McSherry and Grant McCool
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Police arrested more than 125 people on Tuesday as protesters opposed to Bush administration policies marched near the World Trade Center site and blocked streets in the city's financial district on the second day of the Republican political convention.

More than 100 people were put in plastic handcuffs and led to police vans after the War Resisters League began a march from the trade center site -- destroyed in the Sept. 11 attacks -- to a planned "die-in" near Madison Square Garden, where Republicans were holding their convention to nominate President Bush to a second term in office.

"Why are we being arrested? Why are you people doing this?" some protesters shouted as police stopped the march and led them away. Several demonstrators said they followed police instructions to walk two by two on the sidewalk and were surprised to be detained.

One protester, Jim MacDonald of the DC Anti-War Network, said in an interview by mobile phone that the group did not have a permit to march and police "surrounded us when we started to walk."

"There were many among us who did not want to be arrested," he said.

About 24 people were arrested earlier on Tuesday. Seventeen were detained for illegally blocking traffic on foot or on bicycles in the Wall Street financial district and six were taken into custody for illegally wearing masks at a Harlem subway station, police said.

One man was arrested by about 10 officers after he climbed a tree to obtain a better view of a rally by fellow immigration activists outside U.S. government offices, witnesses said.

Political activists and police had expected a day of confrontations as protesters attempted to take the spotlight away from the four-day convention.

The A31 Action Coalition had vowed to carry out a day of nonviolent civil disobedience to confront corporations and Republican delegates. The group said the day would end with "civil disobedience and resistance" not far from the convention site.

"To spend a few hours or a day in jail is really a small sacrifice ... compared to people who have been subject to Bush administration policies," said War Resisters League activist Elizabeth Broad at an A31 news briefing.

ANTI-WAR AND ANTI-BUSH

Since last Thursday, about 700 people have been arrested in demonstrations across the city to protest the U.S.-led war in Iraq and other Bush administration policies.

New York's 37,000 strong police department is out in force on foot, horses, bicycles and in the air to monitor protests and to guard the city following government warnings of a terrorist attack during the election season.

The Republican convention continued for a second day on Tuesday under tight security. The convention ends Thursday night after Bush accepts the nomination to face Democratic Sen. John Kerry in the Nov. 2 presidential elections.

Most of the demonstrations in the last six days have been peaceful, including an anti-war march on Sunday by several hundred thousand people past Madison Square Garden, one of the biggest rallies seen in New York in decades.

In one violent incident on Monday night, a plainclothes police officer was beaten unconscious during a demonstration.

(Additional reporting by Larry Fine and Christine Kearney)

[mavsman55]

See, this is what I'm talking about. This thread should stem back to the thread where everyone was yelling at me for thinking it was OK for police to try and keep mobs under control. Things like this happen when you let angry groups of people do whatever they want.

[MavKikiNYC]

To be fair, it appears to have been one kid who was kicking a police officer, who had fallen off a motor scooter while attempting to set up a barricade.

They have the punk on video tape. He's lucky not to have a bullet through his thick skull.

Edit: A suspect has now been arrested. (I hope he gets every bit of what's coming to him.)

[MavKikiNYC]

At Least 565 Arrested in City as Protesters Clash With Police
By DIANE CARDWELL and MARC SANTORA

Published: September 1, 2004
A series of demonstrations rippled across Manhattan last night when protesters tried to converge on the Republican National Convention, as a day of planned civil disobedience erupted into clashes with police officers and led to the arrest of more than 900 people.

The wave of confrontations - which included a brawl with the police at the New York Public Library, marauding crowds cursing at delegates in Midtown and the detention of hundreds of protesters near ground zero - created a day of disorder in a convention week already marked by sustained protests against the Bush administration and the war in Iraq.

Yesterday's incidents stood in contrast to the enormous, mostly orderly antiwar march that drew hundreds of thousands of people to Manhattan on Sunday. Many of those protesting yesterday had purposefully avoided seeking permits for their rallies but had publicized their plans well in advance, leading hordes of police officers in cars, bikes, scooters and vans to flood various parts of the city primed to pre-empt disorder before it could occur. The day's arrests brought the convention-related total to more than 1,460.

The protesters gathered at various locations, many with the goal of descending on the convention site at Madison Square Garden. But at the various staging areas - near ground zero, in Union Square, in Herald Square near Macy's, and outside the New York Public Library - the police began making arrests, sending the crowds into a frenzy. These confrontations followed several other events, some of which went off without incident, and the police said their aggressive actions prevented even more widespread disruptions.

"Today a number of anti-R.N.C. activities failed to materialize, including a takeover of the lobby of the Warwick Hotel, perhaps because of the police presence there," Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly told reporters at an early evening news conference.

Protesters and civil liberties lawyers expressed concerns over what they said had been unfair and overzealous tactics in dealing with demonstrators who may not have had permits but were not violent.

"It's an example of the police suckering the protesters," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, referring to the arrest of some 200 protesters who said they thought they were abiding by an agreement they had negotiated with the police as they marched from ground zero on Fulton Street.

"It was a bait-and-switch tactic," she added, "where they approved a demonstration and the protesters kept up their end of the bargain. They undermined people's confidence in the police, and that's a serious problem as we go forward."

The day, loosely organized by an anarchist collective called the A31 Action Coalition, began slowly, with highly anticipated events proving less than fractious. Indeed, the cat-and-mouse between the protesters and the police started early.

Responding to word that anarchists planned to somehow disrupt the morning's trading, hundreds of police officers flooded the blocks surrounding the New York Stock Exchange before 8 a.m.

Roughly an hour later, dozens of officers responded to an obscure corner near the exchange at South William Street and Mill Lane, where protesters had stretched a ball of yarn across the street.

Within minutes, 14 young people sat handcuffed and seated with their backs to a wall near the short pedestrian mall, surrounded by three or four times as many police officers. Several balls of red and yellow yarn were strewn about the street, and a boom box sat nearby with a sign on a bedsheet reading "Celebrate the Power of Money." One of the protesters wore a pinstriped suit and a beret.

Paul J. Browne, a police spokesman, said of the protesters, "A lot of them are from out of town, and I think it was reflected in the choice of intersections."

But the protests gained intensity throughout the day, and by late afternoon, the tenor had clearly changed as the police appeared to adjust their tactics to deal with the spontaneous eruptions throughout the city and the crowds of demonstrators grew increasingly volatile as the arrests mounted.

Indeed, the turning point appeared to come as several hundred protesters with the War Resisters League tried to begin a march up Fulton Street that organizers had negotiated with police, although they did not have a permit.

Ed Hedemann, one of the organizers, said their understanding was that if they stayed on the sidewalk and did not block foot traffic or vehicles, they could proceed toward Madison Square Garden.

But within minutes, the protesters were confronted by a line of police officers who told demonstrators they were blocking the sidewalk and would be arrested, although they did not appear to be blocking pedestrian traffic at that point.

A commanding officer, telling the crowd of about 200 "you're all under arrest," ordered other officers to bring the "prison van" and the "orange netting" with which to enmesh the protesters.

"We don't know why we are being arrested, we were just crossing the street," said Lambert Rochfort, who was among the protesters. "We were told if we don't do anything illegal we would be allowed to march on the sidewalk and we did just that. Then they arrested us for no apparent reason."

Later in the afternoon, a clash erupted on the steps of the New York Public Library after two women tried to hang a protest banner over one of the lions atop the library steps. After the police pinned the women to the ground, a crowd of protesters struggled with police, answering requests to move with chants of "Oink, oink, oink."

People coming off the subways were thrown to the ground and the steps of the library were left littered with chairs and debris.

As protesters converged on Herald Square in the evening, the police tried to contain the increasingly raucous crowds. Hundreds of protesters seemed to get too close to the buses of delegates and the crowd became unruly as the police moved in metal barricades and used scooters to try to push the crowd back.

Those who would not move were arrested, and each time the police moved in to make an arrest, they were swarmed by protesters.

The demonstrators at Herald Square, frustrated by their lack of ability to move closer to Madison Square Garden, began breaking off in clusters of hundreds or so and storming the streets and avenues in Midtown, throwing cones and other objects at cars and windows as they ran.

As police drew close, they tried to scatter. Police tackled them in streets, corners and in front of stores. Innocent bystanders were also caught up in the maelstrom.

In one instance, about 200 people broke away from the larger group in a chase that went all the way from 33rd Street and Broadway to 27th Street and Park Avenue, before being tackled by police. At 27th Street and Madison Avenue, protesters set fire to a large pile of trash near the Carlton Hotel as delegates and other guests made their way to the convention.

Reporting for this article was contributed by Randal C. Archibold , Michael Wilson, Mary Spicuzza, William K. Rashbaum and Colin Moynihan.

[MavKikiNYC]

This should be shameful to the Democrats. And let swing voters take note--those trying to disrupt the Republican convention are trying to disrupt TRUE political expressiion. They are trying to stifle the articulation of any thoughtful political point of view. Did Republicans attempt to silence the Democrats in Boston from presenting their point of view (such as it was)?

While all of the thug-trash demonstrators were engaged in acts of vandalism and violence, Republican delegates spent Tuesday engaged in public service--cleaning up public parks, serving lunch in homeless kitchens and senior citizen centers.

Such different visions of America.

The Democratic party is being disgraced.

[Epitome22]

Even as ridiculously over the top and full of rhetoric as some of these groups are, even the marxist/socialist ones. This woudn't be near as big a deal if it weren't for those stupid anarchist groups. rich, pampered white college kids hiding behind bandana masks who egg on cops and then complain about police violence. They think they're engaging in something really revolutionary but they don't know they're just acting out the typical nihlism and petty vandalism that's typical of youth of their race and class. They're stupid, they're self serving and their pointless. They're not even there to support or oppose any candidate they just wan't to start trouble. They get no sympathy from me.

[FreshJive]

To be fair, most of the worst protestors aren't Democrats or even attempting to speak for the Democrats. Anarchist groups like the Black Tea Society proteseted in Boston also.

[dude1394]

They may not be democrats but they DAMN sure aren't conservatives.

[FreshJive]

Like Epitome said most of these people are only acting out. They don't care about making sense out of politics. I noticed on the Black Tea Society's message board that they actually ban posters. Anarchists, indeed.
"I believe in nussing, Lebowski, nussing....." "and tommorrow we'll come back and cutoffyourjohnson"

[mavsman55]

Originally posted by: Epitome22
Even as ridiculously over the top and full of rhetoric as some of these groups are, even the marxist/socialist ones. This woudn't be near as big a deal if it weren't for those stupid anarchist groups. rich, pampered white college kids hiding behind bandana masks who egg on cops and then complain about police violence. They think they're engaging in something really revolutionary but they don't know they're just acting out the typical nihlism and petty vandalism that's typical of youth of their race and class. They're stupid, they're self serving and their pointless. They're not even there to support or oppose any candidate they just wan't to start trouble. They get no sympathy from me.

I have no choice but to agree 100%. I highly doubt that these people are representing the democratic party in any true way.

[MavKikiNYC]

Hundreds of arrests mar protests throughout NYC

Waves of protesters clashed with police across midtown and lower Manhattan last night, resulting in hundreds of arrests.

The chaos began in the midst of rush-hour, as commuters tried to make their way home and security around Madison Square Garden tightened for convention speeches by Laura Bush and Arnold Schwarzenegger. The disorder took place on a day that anarchist groups had marked for civil disobedience.

At Bryant Park, tensions erupted at 6 p.m. when a dispute over a banner sparked rough-and-tumble verbal and physical encounters between marchers and police on and around the steps of the public library.

Meanwhile, at Ground Zero, a controversial police dragnet at Church and Vesey streets swept up 200 marchers minutes after about 500 of them left on their way to a "die-in."

As police sirens blared into the night, marchers moved to Herald Square where a series of running encounters took place. Police closed Broadway. The sidewalks were overwhelmed.

"They aren't letting me go this way, they're not letting me go that way," said Joyce Breach, 60, of the East Village, after shopping at Macy's. "I wish the police treated tax-paying New Yorkers with as much consideration as they have for these Republicans."

"This is definitely a little nerve-wracking," said tourist Kimberly King, 40, of Marina Del Rey, Calif. "It seems like we're at a delicate balance between peace and passion and at any moment, the scene could go bad."

At one point, police stood shoulder-to-shoulder across 32nd Street, as spotters peered through binoculars waiting for protesters to arrive. When a group of protesters tried to pass a police barrier at Broadway and 34th Street, one woman was nearly trampled as police pushed them back with orange netting. Protesters shouted, "This is what a police state looks like."

"When there is dissent, they try to break it up and stifle it," said Priya Reddy, a writer and eco-activist of Manhattan. "It's a whitewash. The best thing they can do is let people gather because this is history."

Talk show host Chris Matthews got a scare on the MSNBC set in Herald Square when a protester hopped a security fence and tried to jump onto the stage. He was immediately subdued and a stunned Matthews carried on.

"It's their right to protest," said Mary Ceverha, a delegate from Dallas. "They feel very strongly about it. We feel very strongly about it. I'm so proud of the police."

As of about 9:30 p.m., some 750 people had been arrested, said Deputy Chief Michael Collins; 150 alone were arrested at 35th Street and Sixth Avenue. At nearby 35th Street and Fifth Avenue about 10 p.m., there were so many arrests that police did not have enough buses to transport those they took into custody.

The situation was serious enough that Mayor Michael Bloomberg went to the police command center at Penn Station last night.

By 9 p.m., the situation was still developing, but there were no reports of serious injury or extensive vandalism.

Earlier, with dusk descending, the chaos at Bryant Park began when police pounced on two men unfurling a black-and-pink banner.

Hundreds of protesters immediately unfurled their own banners, chanting, "Let them go." Police threw a woman to the ground. The crowd surrounded the officers, chanting, "The Whole World is Watching."

"It was unbelievable," said Cyndy Bruce, 26, of Chicago. "This is a public space. The officer said, 'You can't hang it but you can hold it.' As soon as they held it up, the officers swarmed in. They incited this violence. Not us."

"It feels like a tactic of fear they're trying to instill in us like they're nervous and they feel the need to start controlling people," said Courtney Arnold, 27, of Babylon.

Minutes after the crowd gathered, police in phalanx formation linked arms. As scuffles broke out, police strung orange netting and appeared to be preparing to make hundreds of arrests.

They relented on the arrest plan at 7 p.m., as people began to move to Herald Square. Six people blocked 42nd Street. Police rushed them with scooters, tackled them and loaded them into a van.

Meanwhile, at Ground Zero -- a touchstone symbol in this year's presidential race -- a peaceful march turned sour as police strung orange nets at Vesey and Church streets, corralling 200 people including journalists and onlookers. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly blamed the Ground Zero arrests on march organizers "reneging on an agreement not to block traffic" and "failing to walk on sidewalk instead of street."

But many detainees told reporters they were not aware of the rules. "They said as long as you observe the red lights, it shouldn't be a problem," said Bob Curley, who was arrested with his son. "Then we walked off the sidewalk and across the street and that was the end."

Police filled five busloads of detainees as people screamed, "Arrest George Bush." "We are fighting against our own people, we have our own people against us," said Stephanie Lobello, 21, a tattoo artist from Flushing. "There is no freedom in this country."

One officer who was listening said, "We're following orders."

At the Hummer offices at 11th Avenue and 56th Street, 40 officers looked on as a lone protester, Georgi Page, 34, a Web producer from Harlem, marched resolutely in a Hummer costume made from a cardboard box.

"I thought there would be a lot more people here," acknowledged Page.

Her lonely protest lasted 20 minutes before she was asked to leave by a police officer. "I'm not going to be arrested," Page said incredulously. "I'm not obstructing traffic. I'm legally protesting."

But a teary Page was loaded into a police van. She was charged with disorderly conduct for "parading without a permit."

[Dooby]

"The Whole World is Watching."

No, they weren't.


August 31st was supposed to be a big night for the anarchists, hoping to start a riot. The police decided not to put up with it. No big deal.
Link

[MavKikiNYC]

Now the anarchist pussies are complaining about the conditions in the detention facility where they're being held.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: MavKikiNYC
Now the anarchist pussies are complaining about the conditions in the detention facility where they're being held.

I think a hearty and healthy "THEY CAN SUCK IT!" is in order.

[LRB]

Wonder why the vast majority of these protesters with absolutely no association at all with the Democratic party didn't protest in Boston at the DNC? I mean there is no association wth the Dems. They don't support Kerry. They're neutral as far as the Democrats and Republicans go. The DNC has absolutely nothing to do with these protest in any shape form or fashion.

BTW please PM me if you wish to buy a share of the Brooklyn Bridge.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: LRB
Wonder why the vast majority of these protesters with absolutely no association at all with the Democratic party didn't protest in Boston at the DNC? I mean there is no association wth the Dems. They don't support Kerry. They're neutral as far as the Democrats and Republicans go. The DNC has absolutely nothing to do with these protest in any shape form or fashion.

BTW please PM me if you wish to buy a share of the Brooklyn Bridge.

I've been waiting for someone to post that. If you checked every persons party affiliation and/or voting history, I guarantee you it is overwhelmingly dimocraptic. Guaranteed.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB
Wonder why the vast majority of these protesters with absolutely no association at all with the Democratic party didn't protest in Boston at the DNC? I mean there is no association wth the Dems. They don't support Kerry. They're neutral as far as the Democrats and Republicans go. The DNC has absolutely nothing to do with these protest in any shape form or fashion.

BTW please PM me if you wish to buy a share of the Brooklyn Bridge.

You must have not noticed that these anarchists don't like the democrats either and protested at their convention.

"Police walk with Anarchist protestors, during a march at the Democratic National Convention in Boston, July 26,2004. A unified and determined Democratic Party opened its national convention on Monday"

Anarchists site

BTW you must have a RE license to market property....[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[LRB]

You must have not noticed that these anarchists don't like the democrats either and protested at their convention.

You must not have read and comprehended my posts. I said that the vast majority of the protesters, not all, but most, weren't protesting at the DNC. What that means is that a few, a minority, mush less than half but more than one, were protesting at the DNC. And I'm willing to bet you that there were much more attendees of the DNC in the protestors at the RNC than attendees of the RNC protesting at the DNC.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB

You must not have read and comprehended my posts. I said that the vast majority of the protesters, not all, but most, weren't protesting at the DNC. What that means is that a few, a minority, mush less than half but more than one, were protesting at the DNC. And I'm willing to bet you that there were much more attendees of the DNC in the protestors at the RNC than attendees of the RNC protesting at the DNC.

I didn't realize that you were in Boston during the DNC and also in NYC this week to be able to say "that the vast majority of the protesters, not all, but most, weren't protesting at the DNC." As I showed there were the same types that have been discussed to be in NYC.

As for the later claim that the RNC attendee's weren't in the streets to protest the DNC, sure, they wouldn't be out on the streets, there's no valet parking and for crying out loud "those people" actually drink tap water, not the bottled water the RNC deleghates want!

[LRB]

Police arrest 1,100 people in protests

NEW YORK (CNN) -- More than 1,100 people were arrested Tuesday in protests across New York, including about 200 demonstrators near Ground Zero, police officials said.

Police said that 1,187 people were arrested Tuesday in protests surrounding the Republican National Convention. Many were part of a demonstration by the War Resisters League near Ground Zero, where the twin towers of the World Trade Center once stood.

Charges range from disorderly conduct, obstruction of governmental administration and resisting arrest, authorities said.

Meanwhile, police said they have arrested a man in connection with the beating of a detective in a protest Monday night.

Officers grabbed Jamal Holiday, 19, during another demonstration Tuesday night in Lower Manhattan. The night before, police said, Holiday was in a rally outside the United Nations. A group of more than 1,000 people had walked west toward the Madison Square Garden convention site, where there was a clash with police.

Detective William Sample was riding through the demonstration on a motor scooter when he was attacked. A freelance photographer caught a man on camera, pushing Sample off the scooter, pummeling him with his fists and then delivering a kick to his head.

Sample was taken to St. Vincent's Hospital and then released Tuesday.

"He is home recovering," said Detective Noel Waters.

The suspect's picture repeatedly had been shown on local newscasts. He was arrested without incident, police said.

Near Ground Zero, New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said about 200 people were arrested Tuesday when they disobeyed an order by police to stay on the sidewalk.

"The group got bitter" and obstructed traffic after walking into the road, Kelly said.

The protesters had gathered near Ground Zero and had begun marching peacefully down Fulton Street near St. Paul's Church when a large contingent of police, including some in riot gear, surrounded them.

The police then started pulling people from the crowd, placing them in plastic handcuffs and taking them away. A police bus and van were used to haul them off.

"What have I done? What have I done?" shouted one man as he was placed in the police van.

Nearby demonstrators who did not participate in the march chanted, "Let them go!" and "Arrest George Bush!"

The number of arrests since protests began last week has topped 1,700.

In one incident Tuesday night, a protester jumped a fence and ran onto a stage being used by MSNBC during a live broadcast of "Hardball."

Host Chris Matthews was on the set with former Environmental Protection Agency chief Christie Todd Whitman, NBC correspondent David Gregory, Newsweek's Howard Fineman and GOP strategist Sheri Annis when the protester leapt onto the stage, ran in front of the camera and charged toward the set.

Security personnel grabbed the hooded man. No one was hurt.

A crowd of about 1,500 protesters gathered about 7 p.m. Tuesday around Herald Square, a busy shopping district close to Madison Square Garden.

A half-hour later, about 15 protesters staged a sit-in at 34th Street and Broadway as police prodded demonstrators back onto the sidewalk. One protester, Cindy Fiore of Connecticut, said, "Truthfully, I hate George Bush. I think he's a terrible person."

About 8:30 p.m., the protesters blocked two buses carrying convention delegates to Madison Square Garden before police intervened. They emptied the buses and transported the delegates a different way. The protesters chanted, "This is what a police state looks like," and "The whole world is watching."

At one point, protesters also staged a "die-in" in the street, with police having to remove them physically. At least 40 arrests were made.

Protesters also carried out acts of civil disobedience at several corporations and banks in conjunction with the Republican convention.

Hundreds marched and rallied at the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement office to protest the Bush administration's detention of immigrants.

Some marchers wore black hoods and handcuffs to symbolize prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq and detainees at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Maia Ramnath, 31, a graduate student from California, took part in the march and said she intended to participate in acts of civil disobedience.

"Democracy has been hijacked by the Bush administration, and it's our responsibility to demonstrate," Ramnath said.

Twenty protesters were arrested Tuesday morning after they blocked vehicular and pedestrian traffic outside the New York Stock Exchange, police said.

About 30 activists wearing pig snouts assembled at a breakfast sponsored by gas and oil supplier Halliburton. The activists accused the Bush administration of favoring Halliburton when it awarded billions of dollars in contracts in Iraq because Vice President Dick Cheney was the company's CEO between 1995 and 2000, immediately before he became President Bush's running mate.

Calling the company "Hallibacon," the snout-wearing protesters stuffed fake money with Cheney's image on it into their mouths.

Most of those arrested have been taken for processing to Pier 57 on the west side of Manhattan. Many will have to show up Wednesday at Manhattan Central Bookings, police said.

The three-story, blocklong pier has been converted to a holding pen especially for those protesting the convention so that city precincts won't be overrun by waves of arrests.

The pier can hold 1,000 people and will remain in operation until the end of the U.S. Tennis Open, which runs through September 12.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

I didn't realize that you were in Boston during the DNC and also in NYC this week to be able to say "that the vast majority of the protesters, not all, but most, weren't protesting at the DNC." As I showed there were the same types that have been discussed to be in NYC.

As for the later claim that the RNC attendee's weren't in the streets to protest the DNC, sure, they wouldn't be out on the streets, there's no valet parking and for crying out loud "those people" actually drink tap water, not the bottled water the RNC deleghates want!

Mavdog according to your own logic you're hypocritically talking out of your ass about who was and wasn't protesting in Boston and NY. However I don't subscribe to that faulty logic, so I can comment without being a complete hypocrit. I rely on reliable coverage from news scources which are personally cross verified to get my information. And by your own admission, you can only show that some of the same "types", not individuals but types, of people were at both. However there are many groups who weren't represented in Boston and the quantity of total protesters is much higher. Also of note is how the violence of protesters is much higher as well.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB

Mavdog according to your own logic you're hypocritically talking out of your ass about who was and wasn't protesting in Boston and NY. However I don't subscribe to that faulty logic, so I can comment without being a complete hypocrit. I rely on reliable coverage from news scources which are personally cross verified to get my information. And by your own admission, you can only show that some of the same "types", not individuals but types, of people were at both. However there are many groups who weren't represented in Boston and the quantity of total protesters is much higher. Also of note is how the violence of protesters is much higher as well.

Actually I'm the only one who has provided any "reliable covergage" relating to the protesters at both conventions, so your suggestion of "logic" and "being a complete hypocrite" don't make much sense.

The point is that these protesters who have been mentioned as being at and causing trouble at the RNC were also at the DNC. Not really too hard to grasp...

[LRB]

Mavdog you can try and change the subject as much as you like, but the fact still remains that most of the protesters at the RNC weren't at the DNC and that ther are much more protesters, by at least an order of magnitude, than at the DNC.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: LRB
the fact still remains that most of the protesters at the RNC weren't at the DNC and that ther are much more protesters, by at least an order of magnitude, than at the DNC.

Let's assume for argument's sake this is true. What does this mean?

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Epitome22

Let's assume for argument's sake this is true. What does this mean?

Well it would appear that a good many protesters favor the dems over the republicans.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: LRB
Mavdog you can try and change the subject as much as you like, but the fact still remains that most of the protesters at the RNC weren't at the DNC and that ther are much more protesters, by at least an order of magnitude, than at the DNC.

uh, that's wasn't your point when you said the RNC protesters have an "association" with the DNC, to wit:

Wonder why the vast majority of these protesters with absolutely no association at all with the Democratic party didn't protest in Boston at the DNC? I mean there is no association wth the Dems. They don't support Kerry. They're neutral as far as the Democrats and Republicans go. The DNC has absolutely nothing to do with these protest in any shape form or fashion.

BTW please PM me if you wish to buy a share of the Brooklyn Bridge.

who is trying to "change the subject" eh? apparently it is you...

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog



uh, that's wasn't your point when you said the RNC protesters have an "association" with the DNC, to wit:


who is trying to "change the subject" eh? apparently it is you...

Those are your words not mine. But again you try to go off on a tangent. I never none of the protesters at the DNC were protesing the RNC as well. I just said that most of the RNC protesters weren't protesting at the DNC. You've provided zeron evidence to conteract this.

Now since most of the protesters at the RNC didn't protest at the DNC it strains credibility somewhat to suggest that most of these protesters are in no way, shape, form or fashion supporting the democrats especially considering home much more numerous the protesters are at the RNC versus the DNC.

[Epitome22]

Originally posted by: LRB

Well it would appear that a good many protesters favor the dems over the republicans.

Or a good many protesters dislike the Republicans more than the Democrats. These conventions are for a presidential election and last time I checked, it was a Republican president currently in administration.

[LRB]

Or a good many protesters dislike the Republicans more than the Democrats. These conventions are for a presidential election and last time I checked, it was a Republican president currently in administration.

Six one way and half a dozen another way. You're essentially saying the same thing I did, just restated in a negative versus postive fashion. Of course the charge has been made that Kerry campaign is based upon he's not Bush, which is what you appear to be confirming.

[Epitome22]

It's not the same. As has been pointed out, many times. Hatred for one candidate is not endorsment for another. The protesters themselves have said this many times. Protests at the convention have more to do with Bush than John Kerry or the Democrats.

[knowitall]

Epitome is right. I saw a sign that said "Vote for Kerry, just don't ask me why".

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Epitome22
It's not the same. As has been pointed out, many times. Hatred for one candidate is not endorsment for another. The protesters themselves have said this many times. Protests at the convention have more to do with Bush than John Kerry or the Democrats.

Still most RNC protestors showing favortism towards Kerry and the Dems by not protesting the DNC. However it incredibly strains credibility to suggest that none of the RNC protesters are in any way, shape, form, or fashion supporting the democrats and Kerry.

[FreshJive]

Why does it matter if they are the same "individuals"? NY crazies don't need help from some goofy Boston college kids, and you think that Anarchist losers in NY are motivated enough to trek out to Boston? I thought the argument was about the political affiliations of violent protestors as a whole.