Checens hold hundreds of Russians hostage today

[Sinn Fein]

BESLAN, Russia - Militants wearing suicide-bomb belts seized a southern Russian school in a region bordering Chechnya (news - web sites) on Wednesday, taking hundreds of hostages — many of them children — and threatening to blow up the building if police storm it. As least two people have been reported killed, including a school parent.


AP Photo


Reuters
Slideshow: Gunmen Take Hundreds Hostage at Russia School

Suicide Attackers Seize Russian School
(AP Video)



Hours into the desperate standoff, security officials said they had made brief contact with the hostage-takers. Russian special forces wearing camouflage and carrying heavy-caliber machine guns surrounded Middle School No. 1. About 1,000 people, mostly parents, were massed the three-story building in the town of Beslan, demanding information and accusing the government of failing to protect their children.


Kazbek Dzantiyev, head of the North Ossetia region's Interior Ministry, said that the hostages have threatened "for every destroyed fighter, they will kill 50 children and for every injured fighter — 20 (children)," the ITAR-Tass news agency reported.


At one point, a girl wearing a floral print dress and a red bow in her hair fled the school, her hand held by a flak-jacketed soldier. An older woman followed them. Ruslan Ayamov, spokesman for North Ossetia's Interior Ministry told The Associated Press that 12 children and one adult managed to escape after hiding in the building's boiler room.


The attack was the latest blamed on secessionist Chechen rebels, coming a day after a suicide bomber killed nine people in Moscow and a week after near-simultaneous explosions blamed on terrorists caused two Russian planes to crash, killing all 90 people on board. The surge in violence was apparently timed around last Sunday's Chechen presidential election.


"In essence, war has been declared on us, where the enemy is unseen and there is no front," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said.


President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) interrupted his working holiday Wednesday in the Black Sea resort of Sochi for a second time and returned to the capital. On arrival at the airport, he held an immediate meeting with the heads of Russia's Interior Ministry and Federal Security Service, the Interfax news agency said.


The standoff began after a ceremony marking the first day of the Russian school year, when it was likely that many parents had accompanied their children. About 17 militants, men and women, stormed the three-story building and herded captives into the gymnasium. They forced children to stand at the windows and warned they would blow up the school if police intervened, said Alexei Polyansky, a police spokesman for southern Russia.


"I was standing near the gates, music was playing, when I saw three armed people running with guns. At first I though it was a joke when they fired in the air and we fled," a teenager, Zarubek Tsumartov, said on Russian television.


Hours after the seizure, Regional Federal Security Service chief Valery Andreyev said on NTV television that negotiations with the hostage-takers "are just, just beginning" and that brief contact had not allowed authorities to evaluate the situation in Beslan, located 10 miles north of the regional capital of Vladikavkaz.


There were conflicting casualty reports.


ITAR-Tass, citing local hospitals, said one person died at the scene and seven in hospitals. Dzgoyev put the death toll at four, and the Federal Security Service chief for North Ossetia, Valery Andreyev, later said two civilians were killed and two wounded.


Two bodies were visible near the school. Dzgoyev said a girl was also lying near the building, presumably wounded, but officials said the area could not be approached because it was coming under fire.


Fatima Khabalova, spokeswoman for the regional parliament, earlier said one of the dead was a father who brought his child to the school and was shot when he tried to resist the raiders. She also said at least nine people had been injured in gunfire, including three teachers and two police officers.


Although earlier reports said 400 hostages and 17 miltants were inside, Andreyev said authorities were uncertain about those figures. He estimated there might be 120-300 captives.


"The main task is to free the children alive — and everybody located there, but the most important thing is the children," the security chief said.


Suspicion in both the school attack and the Moscow bombing fell on Chechen rebels or their sympathizers, but there was no evidence of any direct link. The attacks came around Chechnya's presidential elections, a Kremlin-backed vote aimed at undermining support for the insurgents by establishing a modicum of civil order in the war-shattered republic. The previous president, Akhmad Kadyrov, was killed with more than 20 others in a bombing May 9.





The militants inside the school released one hostage with a list of their demands, including the freedom of fighters detained over a series of attacks on police facilities in neighboring Ingushetia in June, ITAR-Tass reported.

They also seek talks with regional officials and a well-known pediatrician, Leonid Roshal, who aided hostages during the deadly seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002, news reports said.

Parents of the seized children recorded a videocassette appeal Putin to fulfill the terrorists' demands, Khabalova said. The text of the appeal was not immediately available.

The violence was the latest to plague the government of Putin, who came to power vowing to crush the Chechen rebellion. Terrorism fears in Russia have risen markedly following the plane crashes and the suicide bombing outside a Moscow subway station Tuesday night. The blast by a female attacker tore through a busy area between the station and a department store, killing nine people and wounded more than 50.

Authorities said Tuesday that 10 people were killed, but Interfax reported Wednesday that Moscow health officials revised that, saying one man who died in a hospital was not a victim of the blast.

A militant Muslim web site published a statement claiming responsibility for the bombing on behalf of the "Islambouli Brigades," a group that also claimed responsibility for the airliner crashes. The statements could not immediately be verified.

The statement said Tuesday's bombing was a blow against Putin, "who slaughtered Muslims time and again." Putin has refused to negotiate with rebels in predominantly Muslim Chechnya who have fought Russian forces for most of the past decade, saying they must be wiped out.

[mavsman55]

This is sad. But just one question: What is the point of these soldiers doing all of this? What are they trying to get out of it?

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: mavsman55
This is sad. But just one question: What is the point of these soldiers doing all of this? What are they trying to get out of it?

IMHO Russia is reaping what it sowed.

Chechnya report

[madape]

Our Islamic friends are doing what they do best - killing children.

[Mavdog]

there's a lot of that going on from both sides ape.

[Sinn Fein]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

IMHO Russia is reaping what it sowed.

Chechnya report

Well there's a shocker! Do liberals just alway's root for the terrorist? Unreal. Im glad you are justifying suicide bombings, crashings of planes and the hostage taken of hundreds of innocent children. Class act.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: Sinn Fein

Well there's a shocker! Do liberals just alway's root for the terrorist? Unreal. Im glad you are justifying suicide bombings, crashings of planes and the hostage taken of hundreds of innocent children. Class act.

who is "justifying"?
Do you always root for the oppressor?

Do you "justify" the Russians killing of civilian Chechnyns? Do you "justify" the killing of hundreds (thousands?) of innocent Chechnya children? The destruction of the Chechnyan communities, their farms, their opportunity to work and keep their families safe?

Violence begets violence. Both of these groups are wrong.

[knowitall]

Reap what they sow may have come to mind while looking over the graves of hundreds of thousands of Chechens.

[Sinn Fein]

Both groups have been wrong at times. However, in the last few years it has been a one sided thing. Russia has done NOTHING to Chechnya to warrant this.

[madape]

The kidnapping and execution of children is never justified.. ever. Mavdog, your defense of the terrorists is shocking. I can say that I now find you personally sickening.

[Mavdog]

Nobody "warrants" acts such as this. The perpertrators deserve a dose of justice...

Russia has been very, very heavyhanded in its dealing with the Chechnyans. They have destroyed the region all in the name of keeping their glorious Russian Republic intact.

The Russians and the Chechnyan successionists are all with guilt, yet the innocent are the ones who suffer.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: madape
The kidnapping and execution of children is never justified.. ever. Mavdog, your defense of the terrorists is shocking. I can say that I now find you personally sickening.

guess your reading fails you ape, I never "justified" nor "defended" the actions of the terrorists. You may however continue to be "sick" if you wish.

[Sinn Fein]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

guess your reading fails you ape, I never "justified" nor "defended" the actions of the terrorists. You may however continue to be "sick" if you wish.

But you DO call it "justice", that sir, is sickening.

[knowitall]

Mavdog never justified or defended the acts of these rebels. He merely attempted to explain their motivation.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: Sinn Fein

But you DO call it "justice", that sir, is sickening.

what? where? It's not nice to make things up...
I did say that "The perpertrators deserve a dose of justice". I said that the Russians have escalated the conflict.

What is "sickening" is the failure to place any fault on the actions of the Russians.

[Sinn Fein]

Mavdog, I, by no means place NO blame on the Russians. They do deserve blame, especially during the first war in the 90's. That said, they (the chechens) are quite culpable now and you can't blame the Russians in the recent years, they have attempted to make peace while the Chechens bomb away like cowards. And you said "they deserve a dose of justice", ergo, you think that this is their comuffins, no?

[madape]

Sorry, but stating that the Russia is "reaping what it sewed" sounds like a statement one would read on an Al-Qaeda website promptly after 9-11. It goes beyond defense. It's an approval. I wouldn't hesitate even to call it a celebration.

IMHO, those children did not "sew" anything. Unlike mavdog, I do not think their families deserve any "reaping". How could any person with a shred of humanity think otherwise?

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: Sinn Fein
Mavdog, I, by no means place NO blame on the Russians. They do deserve blame, especially during the first war in the 90's. That said, they (the chechens) are quite culpable now and you can't blame the Russians in the recent years, they have attempted to make peace while the Chechens bomb away like cowards. And you said "they deserve a dose of justice", ergo, you think that this is their comuffins, no?

"comuffins"? what's that?

the terrorists who seized the school deserve the dose of justice, may it be swift.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: madape
Sorry, but stating that the Russia is "reaping what it sewed" sounds like a statement one would read on an Al-Qaeda website promptly after 9-11. It goes beyond defense. It's an approval. I wouldn't hesitate even to call it a celebration.

perhaps in your warped world after you have altered your perception of reality, but to a rational person the phrase means that the Russians have inflicted upon the Chechnyns loss of innocent people's lives and almost total destruction to their society. no "defense", no "approval", no "celebration".

IMHO, those children did not "sew" anything. Unlike mavdog, I do not think their families deserve any "reaping". How could any person with a shred of humanity think otherwise?

Russia is the subject. These people in the school- the teachers, the students- are innocent victims. The perpertrators are (it seems) murderers and terrorists. Russia has guilt as well.

Your failure to see how Russia is also culpable is amazing.

[LRB]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

perhaps in your warped world after you have altered your perception of reality, but to a rational person the phrase means that the Russians have inflicted upon the Chechnyns loss of innocent people's lives and almost total destruction to their society. no "defense", no "approval", no "celebration".

Russia is the subject. These people in the school- the teachers, the students- are innocent victims. The perpertrators are (it seems) murderers and terrorists. Russia has guilt as well.

Your failure to see how Russia is also culpable is amazing.

To place other than 100% of the blame on the terrorist who have committed these heinous acts is unconscionable and sick. Russia may or may not have done the vile things in the past (personally I believe they have done at least some atrocious acts), however that in no way justifies the attacks of these terrorists on innocents. And no matter what you say, if you try and shift the blame off of those who committed the acts, then you are justifying them. You are unjustly comingling 2 different things. Russia's actions should be judged of their own accord as should the terrorists.

[madape]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

perhaps in your warped world after you have altered your perception of reality, but to a rational person the phrase means that the Russians have inflicted upon the Chechnyns loss of innocent people's lives and almost total destruction to their society. no "defense", no "approval", no "celebration".

Russia is the subject. These people in the school- the teachers, the students- are innocent victims. The perpertrators are (it seems) murderers and terrorists. Russia has guilt as well.

Your failure to see how Russia is also culpable is amazing.

EDITED FOR ABUSIVE LANGUAGE

[Mavdog]

Back at you.

You act like a child.

[reeds]

EDITED QUOTE OF MADEAPE's ABUSIVE LANGUAGE

What the hell is this???who is the child here??? Ape is way out of line....MODS- come do your job...I dont care if APE is a hero to this board- this is uncalled for and petty little kid shit....of course- nothing will get done..whatever...APE you should be proud

[reeds]

Still waiting.....tic toc tic toc....

[FishForLunch]

I guess Mavdog, Reeds and Knowitall have a point we are reaping what we sowed in a supporting Israel. If only we all become believers and follwed the path of Islam the "Religion of Peace" there would be peace and tranquillity in this world. BARF!!!

We should not be ashamed to support our dear friends Israel, all bin laden wants is an excuse to spread their propoganda and Wahhabhism. I dont want to feel the terroists pain and feelings EVER, I only want them wiped out from the face of this earth.

[dude1394]

No one has reaped crapola with respect to israel unless it's the creation of israel itself. Everything else is bs.

[madape]

The strike I received from the pathetic mods was well worth it. Terrorist cheerleaders like Mavdog shouldn't be allowed to dance their jigs when children die without being called out. I'll repeat my response without the offensive or threatening language. I hope you choke on it.

If it were my kids being executed in school and you said what you just said, I would want to hug you. In fact, I wouldn't mind wishing you a nice day right now. "Reap what they sew". what a wonderful opinion!.

I loveyou

[madape]

America reaping what it sewed

[dude1394]

Originally posted by: reeds

What the hell is this???who is the child here??? Ape is way out of line....MODS- come do your job...I dont care if APE is a hero to this board- this is uncalled for and petty little kid shit....of course- nothing will get done..whatever...APE you should be proud

Just like a leftist. Get a lawyer and file a lawsuit.

[FishForLunch]

Come guys be sensitive to the terrorists, they have feeling too.

Make love not War.

[dude1394]

Maybe you can find some pictures of some of the mangled jewish children blown up in israel yesterday to see what THEY have reaped.

[mavsman55]

Ahh, you see, this is the whole Mavdog philosophy. Feelings of terrorists are more important than the lives of innocents. This is how it always has been. And it sadly will never change.

[Evilmav2]

I guess the rights and wrongs of child slaughter are a nuanced issue for Mavdog and his fellow travelling intellectual compatriots- and in my opinion, that kind of pathetic, insidious "shades of grey" thinking is absolutely reprehensible and vilely contemptible.

Those children don't deserve to be held under the guns, bombs, and knives of Mohamadden madmen, and for anyone to suggest that they do is crass and inhuman. Shame on you Mavdog, Reeds, and anyone else who damned well wants to argue that those kids deserve any small measure of the criminal violence that has befallen them...

[Mavdog]

Interesting how the observation that "violence begets violence" has been warped by some into a defense of the kidnappers. That is a huge leap which is totally unfounded. It's revealing to see all those who seem to have given themselves a mental hernia from all the knee-jerk reactions above.

Has anybody offered a defense of the kidnappers? No, not in the least. They are criminals.

The actions of Russia in dealing with the seperatists in Chechnya have radicalized some of the population. That allows for the criminals such as these kidnappers to find a safe haven and reception for their evil intents. These terrorist cannot operate without some aid. Why is it that they have been afforded that help?

To defeat terrorism, whether it be in Russia or anywhere, we need to not only locate and eliminate the terrorists, we must also stop the provision of safety they are given. We must understand the reasons for otherwise law abiding people to enter the "dark side" as it were.

The heavy handed approach by Russia is the reason these terrorists have been given safe havens. Otherwise unsympathetic people have been brutally treated, with loss of family, of homes, of their livelihood, and they are then able to reconcile the obvious criminal action of harboring and aiding these criminals. They are then not innocent, they are guilty.

To stop the scrouge of terrorism we must look at the root causes of not only those who become terrorists but also to stop the aid that they are given. It is increasingly clear that the scortched earth policy of Russia has not stopped terrorism, it has provided more adherents to the evil.

There's an old saying, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I don't want a repeat of any terrorist acts, we should examine how terrorism has been been born, we should examine how terrorists have been aided in the acts, and we should move quickly we will find success in the war.

[Drbio]

This thread is unfortunate. Mavdog clearly states his sympathies for terrorists and after being b*tchslapped by ape and others, he backtracked, sidestepped and flip-flopped his little liberal self in a manner that would bring tears to Hanoi Kerry's eyes.

Pathetic and sickening indeed.

[Mavdog]

Originally posted by: Drbio
This thread is unfortunate. Mavdog clearly states his sympathies for terrorists and after being b*tchslapped by ape and others, he backtracked, sidestepped and flip-flopped his little liberal self in a manner that would bring tears to Hanoi Kerry's eyes.

DrCleo shows his inabilty to think.
very revealing, not surprising.

[LRB]

To defeat terrorism, whether it be in Russia or anywhere, we need to not only locate and eliminate the terrorists, we must also stop the provision of safety they are given. We must understand the reasons for otherwise law abiding people to enter the "dark side" as it were.

What possible proof do you have that they would be otherwise law abiding. There is no excuse for targeting and killing innocent children. There is no rational reason for aiding those who do.

[knowitall]

There is no excuse for targeting and killing innocent children. You are right. What could make a seemingly ordinary civilian snap with rage? Prehaps it could occur while picking up the pieces of their own mutilated son and daughter. Everyone on this site hopes and prays for the safe release of these innocent people. Especially the Liberals.

[LRB]

You are right. What could make a seemingly ordinary civilian snap with rage?

You make it sound as if they have no choice in the matter. That is not the case, they do have a choice. That is the wonderful things about humans, we are not just mear products of our environment. We have the ability to consciously make choices. Sometimes those are bad choices and sometimes those are good choices. However we choose. Others may limit or increase our choices, but we always have a choice. These seemingly ordinanary civilians chose to support heinous murders who target and kill children to make political statements. They didn't have to do this. Not all Checens did this. Not every Checen that lost a child that could reasonably be attributed directly or indirectly to Russia did this. It amazes me how so many want to sweepingly take away the freedom to choose of human beings and reduce us to no more than beasts reacting to our environment incapable of doing good or evil.

[Drbio]

Originally posted by: Mavdog

DrCleo shows his inabilty to think.
very revealing, not surprising.

Still with the lame ass retorts? Come on man....even a dumbass liberal like you shold be able to come up wiht a better put down.

But don't avoid the fact that you sympathized wiht terrorists. We aren't letting your true colors go away because you want to perform a Kerry backtrack flipflop.