My perspective on the trade - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

TheKid · 02-22-2002, 10:25 AM

This could be looking into this too deeply but I think this trade hasn't finished just yet. While Wahad's contract is ridiculous, I think they acquired him to see if he can fill in Fin's spots. Meaning can he give them size and can he be as versatile as Fin has been. (Going from shooting guard to small forward)If that does happen I can see the Mavericks using Van Excel and Finley as trade bait at the end of the season trying to get a big man here.

From what I understand, they would have traded Finley however with that trade kicker it made it too complicated to trade him this year but would be possible at the end of the year. There's no secret Dallas wants to try and lure Duncan here, which could NOW make it more attractive for him. Also NOW to do a sign and trade deal Duncan/ Finley & Van Exel is possible now.

Now like I said this is all speculative but I will NOT be surprised at all to see Fin and or Van Exel traded after this year. Avery Johnson gives them that veteran leadership and he's more of a floor general than Hardaway. Also small ball works better with Johnson running the point than with Hardaway running the point.

Dallas seems to be more attractive for a team that will have GREAT scorers and would be young. The only problem I would have with this is when is Dallas done with moving? I mean when you think about it Juwan STILL hadn't played an entire season with the team so how could he ever get comfortable? Now I'm not sad to see him but do the Mavericks really get interior defense from La Frentz?

Cuban has shown now that he's willing to do anything to improve the team, but at some point you have to keep a team together to let them grow. Now the big three has been with each other for a time and they are together and the cornerstone, but I think they're going to give it the rest of the season to see where we end up. Anything short of the Western Conference finals, I see some people being moved from the Mavericks and unfortunately my boy Fin isn't untouchable any longer... THOUGHTS?

Murphy3 · 02-22-2002, 11:43 AM

i was thinking more on the lines for finley or van exel going to new york for camby and something else..something along those lines.

and about lafrentz..do we expect him to be a defensive stopper?
no
is a significant upgrade? yes

mick · 02-22-2002, 12:49 PM

If someone told you that you could trade four no-lottery number 1 picks, $4,000,000, Christian Laettner and Hubert Davis for Nick Van Exel, Raef LaFrentz, and swingman who can defend on the perimeter, would you do it? No matter what team you were?

Of course you would and so would everbody else. That's exactly what they did. Two of the number ones just happened to go through Howard in the form of Alexander and Thomas.

So, you gave:

1) Two #1s, $3 mil, and say Laettner for Raef.
2) A number one (Harvey), $1 mil, and say Hubert Davis for Nick.
3) A future number one (2002) for a former number one (Abdul-Wahad)

and for a kicker you swapped Hardaway for Johnson.
Not a bad swap. The both bring veteran playoff leadership. However, AJ just might be a better fit on this team at this point.

Like I said, a great trade. And if it doesn't work for you, you have value that someone else will want. You have taken $ million in cash, some high, non-lottery #1 picks and turned them into cornerstone-type players, or at the very least valuable trade assets.

What would have been even sweeter is if we had called GS and sent Bradley and a second rounder for Jackson, keeping him out of Minn.

seelenjaeger · 02-22-2002, 01:05 PM

TheKid, I do agree.

If you take a look at our situation, we have

-too many centers
-two huge PG´s
-a bunch of players of Nellie´s game style
-three great role players at swingman (Buckner, Griffin, Tariq (he have to earn that though))

IF our run this year won´t be successful, I do expect us to:

Trade one of our PG´s, one of our Centers and likely fillers, and either our star SG or SF for a superstar caliber guy teaming up with Dirk, LaF, Nash. As you can see I´d count on Dirk staying. That makes Fin leaving long term.

I won´t bet on Duncan, it could be Garnett likewise.

But it is within reason.

TheKid · 02-22-2002, 01:29 PM

Of course that scares me because I don't want to see Fin go, but I'd be willing to bet that we'll be talking to the Knicks about Camby at the end of the season.

Oh and Murph, I know LaFrentz is a HUGE upgrade from Howard, I wasn't trying to say that at all don't get me wrong there. I was just asking does he give us the inside defensive presence that we're looking for. I won't be surprised to see in some rotations or (tall ball) Bradley, LaFrentz, Dirk, Fin and Nash or Van Exel at point. If that's the front line can LaFrentz give the Mavs some strength up front? To be honest, I really don't know about LaFrentz defensively that's why I asked. I know he's extremely versatile at the offensive end but from what I understood was that he was always playing out of position in Denver.

Murphy3 · 02-22-2002, 02:09 PM

i agree with you saying the mavs could be talking to the knicks about camby..and i also agree..
no, lafrentz isn't the inside stopper the mavs were looking for...
however, he is a significant upgrade and will fit into the mavs offense nicely

this allows the mavs to be even more dangerous offensively..once they've been together a couple of weeks..you might see this team average 110 a game for awhile

madape · 02-22-2002, 02:15 PM

The Mavs will surely be experimenting with multiple linups for the remainder of the season. We'll see small ball, tall-ball, white-ball, black-ball, foreigner-ball, hair-ball, whatever. We already know VanExel can play the two. LaFrenz can play the four or five, and I bet Nelson even gives him a look at the three. Its going to be very exciting.

Murphy3 · 02-22-2002, 02:18 PM

yes..madape, it will.
you haven't been around enough..you need to drop by and post more often.

this will be a more exciting brand of basketball (can you imagine that!!)
i just hope that nellie doesn't get too experiment happy

MavsFanFinley · 02-22-2002, 02:40 PM

I can't see Wahad filling Fin's shoes, but I've seen stranger things happen, so it's a possibility.

I see Van Exel going before Finley does, but it could take both to get a certain big man here.

As for the NY angle, wouldn't the Knicks have to get rid of Houston or Sprewell before taking Finley? And getting rid of one of their point guards before taking Van Exel. I'd be keeping an eye on that Van Exel to NY for Camby/Shandon Anderson deal for sure.

Same thing with Portland, of course, Wells could very well be gone this summer.

Murphy3 · 02-22-2002, 02:42 PM

no..i don't see wahad filling fin's shoes..however, if griffin could stay healthy, he might be a nice fit at that position.

i honestly don't see fin going anywhere..it might be looked in to..but, i don't see him going anywhere.

MavsFanFinley · 02-22-2002, 02:49 PM

True Murph...the Mavs looked into what Fin could bring back once, they'll likely do it again. Not sure how hard they looked or if they just weren't impressed what Fin could bring back right now. Over the summer could mean a different thing.

Maybe Im just not liking the idea of Fin being traded, but to me, it looks like they made a trade in which they could keep the big 3 while still having assets to bring into the mix later. Meaning they got their big man (short-term or long-term) without having to use one of the big 3.

This summer, they might use Fin, but I'd be seriously pissed if the keep Wahad over Finley. Unless Wahad simply blows socks off everywhere. But if that happens, then he could be used as trade bait material.

I still think Van Exel will be figured into a trade with NY this summer if Camby can prove to stay healthy. We'll see though.

It will certainly make for an interesting summer.

MFFL · 02-22-2002, 02:49 PM

I like this team a lot right now. I really think we have a good shot at the best record in the West. We're only 2 1/2 games behind the Kings so it is in the realm of possibility.

Hoopsmeister · 02-22-2002, 02:56 PM

There's no way Wahad is thought of a potential replacement for Finley. At best Wahad+Griffin might be considered workable at 2 guard if we had to trade Finley to bring in an important big man.

Murphy3 · 02-22-2002, 03:01 PM

i do see a possibility of bringing in a camby..moving lafrentz to 4..dirk to 3, fin or NVE at 2 and nash at 1..

however, i think nellie will fall in love with the idea of having NVE, Fin, and Nash all playing.
each can get their 30 plus minutes a night ...but none have to be too worn down

TheKid · 02-22-2002, 04:18 PM

Meister, I forgot that part of my analogy, I think that would be the thinking that Griff and Wahad would be servicable because they would have enough scorers.

Now I wouldn't want Fin to leave, I think they should keep the big three together as long as possible because personally I think they're going to win a championship if they don't break them up but I'm not the one making the moves so we'll have to see what happens.

MFFL · 02-23-2002, 08:29 PM

Another nice aspect to the trade that may have been overlooked. Because Najera & Wang were a 2nd rounders, they only signed a 2 year contract. Now the Mavs can pay them whatever without worrying about trying to maintain cap room in 2003. I was worried that the Mavs would lose them (and Buckner) in an effort to make a run at Duncan.

FINtastic · 02-23-2002, 11:41 PM

Right now, I don't believe Finley and Van Exel being traded for a big guy is very realistic. Look at the 3 back-up SGs we have right now. Sure they are nice blue collar workers, and the are very good backups. However, ALL of them are injury prone. If Finley and Van Exel were traded, we would be in serious trouble because I doubt there would ever be a time when all three SGs would be healthy. Moreover, I think Van Exel leaves before Finley due to the fact that Van Exel leaving would have a lot less affect on the chemistry. In my opinion, unless one of those three back-ups can prove to be durable or we sign a durable, quality 2G, Finley won't be traded. Besides, I sure hope Finley never gets traded, I would hate to lose him.

MavsFanFinley · 02-23-2002, 11:53 PM

Excellent points FINtastic.

I think trading for LaFrentz helped secure Fin's stay in Dallas. They felt they needed to use him to get us that big man, they didn't, so I think he stays now.

They might still listen to offers, etc...but I think he's safe.

With Abdul-Wahad, I believe Buckner's days are numbered. I wonder if they go the Trent route and not bother signing him at all or hope to use him in a sign-and-trade deal?

Like Murph said, you can find a 2 guard easy enough. We'd still have Griffin, not sure about Newman though, and Wahad to fill in behind Fin.

If they trade Van Exel for Camby this summer, I believe Shandon Anderson was involved. Does Cuban want those contracts though?

Maybe they use their 2nd rounder and hope for the best on 2 guard?

BASKETBALL 101 · 02-24-2002, 12:00 AM

If Cub/Nellie traded FIN there would have been a RIOT in DALLAS!! This city loves Him to DEATH!! His first game back from his injury, he got a MASSIVE standing ovation, the fans were so happy to see him in uniform. It was incrediable!

FINtastic · 02-24-2002, 12:54 AM

I am not saying we need a 2G right now because as long as we have Finley we are fine. I think the guys backing him up are quality back ups (although all of them are a bit too injury prone). However, I think we we would be in serious trouble if we traded Finley, and didn't get a 2G in return.

FINtastic · 02-24-2002, 12:57 AM

<< If Cub/Nellie traded FIN there would have been a RIOT in DALLAS!! This city loves Him to DEATH!! His first game back from his injury, he got a MASSIVE standing ovation, the fans were so happy to see him in uniform. It was incrediable! >>

I would probably lead that riot. Sure you might be able to replace the points. But its hard to replace his clutch play, athleticism, and leadership. This injury to his hamstring has really hurt him. He was playing out of his mind before he got injured. I think he might just finally be getting back to the top of his game.