Greg Buckner - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 01:37 PM

Once again, not living in Dallas I don't see the Mavs play too much, but from what I have read in the past I assumed Greg Buckner was a more important part of this team than most of you are making him out to be.

How serious is his injury? Is he done for the year? I have to believe, from what I've seen of him, a healthy Greg Buckner HAS to be on the 12 man playoff roster.

jacktruth · 02-28-2002, 01:50 PM

I'm not sure that there is such a thing as "A healthy Greg Buckner".

That is the problem. He's always injured. Aside from that fact, most of us like his game alot.

Hoopsmeister · 02-28-2002, 02:06 PM

Buckner's been a fan favorite in Dallas almost from the start, which has led to him being rather overrated. He's a competent player who plays good defense (which helped him stand out on the Mavs), has a good post-up game for a guard, but hasn't shown a lot of range.

However, he doesn't really give the team anything that Griffin and Wahad don't and he's been very injury prone. His injuries generally don't seem serious--strains and sprains--but they seem to be pretty constant. Griffin was originally brought in specifically because the team couldn't rely on Buckner, but has since proven his own worth. With the addition of Wahad who seems to be fairly similar to Buck, we have 3 players who all do the same thing (and I'm not even counting Newman) with about the same skill level--though Griffin seems to me to be somewhat better at both ends fo the floor than Buckner. Given that Buckner's injuries make him the expendable member of the set.

mick · 02-28-2002, 02:58 PM

Agreed. The main thing is the constant injuries. Add to that the fact he is a FA after the season, and why include him into plans for playoffs unless Grififn doesn't recover or Tariq goes down?

Tariq has been able to play both ends of the court in the past, hope he can get that part of his game back

TheKid · 02-28-2002, 03:07 PM

Actually from what I understand, if let's say, Newman, Fin, and Grif went down now, Buck could come off the IR and play. So I think it has more to do with their plans for him instead of the actual injury. Although he has been injury prone so that's the only reason why they would talk about letting him walk. Believe me, NO ONE here or in the Mavericks organization dislikes the guy or what he gives to a team. It's just that I think now he's a victim of numbers. The same way Strick became a victim of that.

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 05:05 PM

Before the season wasn't the move considered to have Buck as the backup point guard? That seems to ring a bell with me...

Hoopsmeister · 02-28-2002, 05:27 PM

There was talk of wanting him to play in the summer league with the goal of working on his ball-handling and passing so he could spend time at the point. Buckner didn't want to though so nothing came of it.

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 06:01 PM

griffin is simply a better player..and with newer player acquisitions, buckner has moved further and further down the line

now if only griffin could stay healthy...remember, he's shooting over 50% this year and is a very, very solid defender when healthy..better than buckner

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 09:00 PM

Well IMO if Buck is healthy he makes the 12 man roser. He and Griff is a big risk, so IMO they both have to be included on the roster. Wahad is a great defender but he is not as good as those 2, and plus he picks up alot of fouls in the time he's on the court.

Bayliss · 02-28-2002, 09:31 PM

Griffin is a better player and Wahad is very intriguing.

Buckner is just not dependable.

djb · 02-28-2002, 09:35 PM

Buck's best asset imo was his post-up game. At times, he was the Mavs' best post player. But with his nagging injuries, he just hasn't been able to improve upon that aspect, nor has he been able to play up to the level he reached a year ago. I like Buck, but like you all have been saying, there's no way the Mavs keep him around now that they have Abdul-Wahad and Griff.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 09:52 PM

Wahad and Griff aren't dependable either, and I rather take the undependable Buck over Wahad. That's why I say both Buck and Griff has to be included on the roster if they are both healthy at the time. That is a big IF, but I think they should both be added.

Bayliss · 02-28-2002, 10:56 PM

I'd rather have Griffin and Wahad because they **can** score. Wahad averaged like 28 points a game in college and never really has gotten to showcase his talents (scoring-wise) in the pros.

Griffen played a great game in the first meeting with Los Angeles... and he can hit outside jumpers as well getting off his shot in the lane.

Buck struggles on the offensive end, whether it be the outside game or inside game.

MavsFanFinley · 02-28-2002, 11:06 PM

Is Griffin really injured though? I know he's had some back spasms that have bothered him periodically this year, but with the trade we had to place 3 guys on the IL per rules.

I have no doubt if he was healthier than Newman, that he'd be active and not Newman. But, could it be that there giving him a rest so to speak? So, he's ready come playoff time?

As for Buckner, yeah, he's gone after the season.

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:12 PM

I agree with MikeFin4. Wahad may be a good player but hell, he should still have to prove himself to make the playoff roster.

As a Celts fan, I was sad to see us lose Griffin, b/c I really like the guy...but I think some of you may be overrating his abilities just a bit...he does everything well, but nothing exceptionally. In the games I've got to watch Buck (at Clemson and with the Mavs) I'd say he's better than Griff and possibly Wahad, who I need to see more of.

When we get some news on a possible Buck return date this debate should heat up even more...

BTW, Welcome to the board MikeFin4 [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img].

Bayliss · 02-28-2002, 11:21 PM

<< When we get some news on a possible Buck return date this debate should heat up even more... >>

Yep... the debate will be heated for about 5 games when Buck reinjures himself. (As you can tell I have a lot of faith in his ability to stay healthy.)

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 11:21 PM

Thanks Hales, I agree with what you said. This is the NBA not college, and Oliver Saint Jean wasn't that good there either. Yes he was good enough to play on a NBA team, but he hasn't really showed me anything. Yes he's a good defener but what else can he do that you have seen him do in the NBA? Well I seen he can sit in street clothes alot, but not much more besides that. Griff is good, but Buck IMO is a better offensive player. Yes Griff can hit a jumpshot, but so can Buck. Buck has also hit a 3 a time or 2, just as Griff. IMO I think they both should be included in the 12 man roster, and Wahad left off. What has he shown any of you to believe he should be included in the 12 man roster? Please feel me in, cause I have missed it.

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 11:27 PM

he's better defensively than buckner..that's why i'd have wahad on the roster.
do we need buck's scoring..?
is it better than wahad's? well, it doesn't really matter because neither will be looked to in the slightest bit to score.
and with wahad being the better defender, i can't see him not making the roster.

he also has the ability to match up with kobe alot better than buckner does..so, we'll see

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:30 PM

I chalk up their infatuation with Wahad to the fact that he's a new player, and fans get excited when new guys come into the fold...I'm not down on Wahad at all, but again, he NEEDS to prove he belongs....and most of you want to put him on the playoff roster after seeing him play twice!!

As MikeFin4 said, and I agree, Buck is more of an offensive threat than Griffin....but, as of now, they should both make the roster with Wahad being the odd man out.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 11:31 PM

Neither of them have a fighting chance against Kobe, but if I had to choose it would be Buck. Bucks better defensively than Wahad, where did you see him play all these games Murphy? I have missed them, he hasn't played many games recently. He has been hurt, and not many Nugz games has been shown on National TV anyway.

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:32 PM

murph...come on man...let's get real here....you have no freakin' clue if wahad is a better defender than buckner...that's bull, unless you happen to watch nuggets games for some reason...don't believe everything you read in the papers.

djb · 02-28-2002, 11:37 PM

The main prob I have with Buck is he's incredibly rusty each time he gets off IR. If they activate him soon, and let him get back into the swing of things before the postseason, then yes I think he should be on the playoff roster. But what are the chances of him coming back and playing significant mins the rest of the regular season? He's just been way too fragile and rusty this entire season.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 11:38 PM

exactly what I said Hales. Murphy haven't seen the guy play much but already thinks he's better than Buckner who he has seen play. Buck has showed when healthy he belongs. I don't get that at all, Murphy please explain where you seen all the Nuz games at man. I didn't see them where Wahad showed me something, and I the 1's I did see he showed me nothing(The little time he has been healthy). I have the NBA subscription on DirecTV and Wahad hasn't shown me anything. I have seen him play, and he is nothing to me. He has to prove he belongs, and he hasnt IMO.

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:39 PM

DJ, i can respect your POV, but what I don't like is these off-handed comments about wahad being a better defender than buckner...but from your angle, i can understand where you are coming from...

djb · 02-28-2002, 11:39 PM

Whoever is most productive during the final stretch of the regular season deserves to be on the playoff roster. Period.

djb · 02-28-2002, 11:40 PM

I honestly haven't seen enough of Abdul-Wahad to make an accurate assessment so I'm going to hold off on that until I actually see him on the floor.

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 11:42 PM

Exactly DJ, that's all I was getting at man!!

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:42 PM

the other thing about wahad, he's always injured too!! probably even more so than buck...so this idea of buck being too "fragile" is ridiculous IMO...and if murphy was cathing nuggets games wahad didn't play much anyways, so he wouldnt have seen anything.

DJ, amen to your last comment...whoever is the most productive gets the call...

Murphy3 · 02-28-2002, 11:47 PM

how would you know i haven't seen wahad play?
i followed the guy since he went to college..teaming up with Jackson and king at michigan before transferring to san jose st...and then into the pros.

i'm afraid you don't know which games i've seen and which games i haven't seen.

however, what it will probably come down to is who is healthy

if all three are healthy (griff,buck and wahad)..i simply don't see buck making the roster

Bayliss · 02-28-2002, 11:48 PM

<< DJ, amen to your last comment...whoever is the most productive gets the call... >>

So with that statement it should be Griff and Wahad, agree? After all they have been more productive this year than Buck.

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:55 PM

murphy whatever, i'm sick of your lame coverups (i'm sure you were a diehard san jose state fan)...i'm not going to deal with you anymore...

bayliss, how has wahad been more productive than buck? not trying to argue here but just wondering....

and i've yet to see any of you admit that wahad is just as injury prone as buck...

MikeFin4 · 02-28-2002, 11:55 PM

How can Wahad have been more productive for the Mavs than Buck Bayliss? Please let me know man, cause I haven't seen it. Also he said down the stretch meaning as we go into the playoffs Bayliss.

Murphy3, this is the pros not NCAA. The talent level is a lot different in those 2 situation. I mean anybody knows that Murphy, come on man. You might've seen him play early on, but here recently in the last 2 years or so he hasn't been on the court enough to show anything.

Hales233 · 02-28-2002, 11:57 PM

exactly mikefin4...being a good player in college and the pros is a totally different thing...

Murphy3 · 03-01-2002, 12:12 AM

sick of my coverup?
what is that supposed to mean?
damn..you don't have to get violent just because i said i think wahad is a better defender than buckner..
nellie has more or less said the same thing already as well.

and to say that I haven't seen him play much in the NBA..no, i haven't seen him much this year, but i have seen him quite a bit in the past.

calm down a bit..it's ok for me to disagree.

MikeFin4 · 03-01-2002, 12:22 AM

When has Nellie said it, and again when has Nellie seen him play recently. The guy hasn't been on the court the last 2 years or so. He has been hurt quite a bit, even more so than Buck has. I haven't heard Nellie say this, and if he did he is probably going off of what he did early on in his career. Anyone who has been following basketball knows the guy has been hurt alot and is very undependable. I will take the undependable Buck over the undependable Wahad any day of the weak. It's ok to disagree Murphy, but the comments you have made has not been backed up with anything. You said "I seen him play in college" but college is nothing like the NBA. You also said "Nellie has said he is a better defender", but I didn't hear Nellie say that. You also said "he is a better defender", yet you haven't seen him really play in 2 or 3 years. I am not trying to insult you in no way, but let's be real here man. Watch Wahad play more before you say he's better than Buckner.

The Crippler · 03-01-2002, 12:32 AM

man

MFFL · 03-01-2002, 12:39 AM

<< He has been hurt quite a bit, even more so than Buck has. >>

Abdul-Wahad HAS had a season where he has played 61 games. That's not a lot but Buckner has NEVER had a season where he has played more than 48 games.

MikeFin4 · 03-01-2002, 12:44 AM

MFFL I am curious to know what year was that he played that many games?

MFFL · 03-01-2002, 12:47 AM

99-00, his first year with the club. Last year he only played 37 games.

MikeFin4 · 03-01-2002, 12:53 AM

Just as I thought, gets a big contract and then sits on the bench in street clothes. The guy is way overpaid, and whoever gave him that big contract deserves to be fired.(they probably are already). 99/00 was a while ago, and just 37 out of 82 last year?