A bit too late - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Mavdog · 11-08-2005, 02:51 PM

for this White House to be giving the seminar on "ethics". If only the session was held before Cheney, Rove and Libby took it upon themselves to dis Wilson and his wife.
I wonder, does Cheney have to attend? or is he seen as just too old and set in his ways to change? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]
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Bush aides sent to ethics classes
1 hour, 9 minutes ago

The White House on Tuesday began mandatory, hourlong briefings for an estimated 3,000 staffers on ethics and the handling of classified information in response to the indictment of a top official in the CIA leak investigation.

Among those who attended the first ethics briefing were some assistants to the president with top security clearances, White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters.

President George W. Bush's top political adviser, Karl Rove, was not among the first group, although he was expected to attend an ethics class later this week.

The White House counsel's office will conduct presentations on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday for those aides with security clearances. Briefings for other aides in the White House and the executive office of the president will follow.

The ethics course comes after Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was indicted on five counts of obstructing justice, perjury and lying in the two-year investigation into the leak of covert CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity.

If convicted, Libby, who resigned from his post in the White House, faces a maximum sentence of 30 years in prison. He has pleaded not guilty.

The five-count indictment against Libby maintains that other government officials were aware of, if not involved in, leaking the identity of Plame to the media. One of those officials is Rove, who serves as Bush's deputy chief of staff.

Rove was not indicted along with Libby, but lawyers involved in the case said Rove remained under investigation and may still be charged in the case.

The briefings were scheduled for staffers according to the first letter of their last name. If that practice is followed, Rove would be expected at a session at 4 p.m. on Wednesday.

"The president thought it was important to have these refresher briefings for all White House staff in light of recent circumstances," McClellan said. "It is mandatory."

In addition to government ethics, the briefings will cover rules for protecting classified information.

The ethics briefings come amid pressure from congressional Democrats to fire Rove or strip his security clearance.

Asked if Rove still had his security clearance, McClellan said: "Yes."

Plame's identity was leaked to the media in July 2003 after her diplomat husband, Joseph Wilson, accused the Bush administration of twisting intelligence on weapons of mass destruction to justify the war in Iraq.

dude1394 · 11-08-2005, 03:58 PM

The only person that outed wilson's wife was wilson, multiple times.

reeds · 11-08-2005, 06:00 PM

"The only person that outed wilson's wife was wilson, multiple times."

Dude- would you think the same if it were democrats in the white house?? I doubt it very much..you are a true homer in every sense of the word.

Mavdog · 11-08-2005, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: dude1394
The only person that outed wilson's wife was wilson, multiple times.

you know the crime libby is accused of is perjury and obstruction. don't attempt to defend libby by throwing wilson out there.

as someone who saw a need to impeach our president for a similar offense of perjury about a blowjob, certainly you want libby to be prosecuted, and if rove also perjured himself you'd want him to resign and be tried, as they (in association with our veep it appears) conspired to destroy two people's lives, correct? just making sure you are being consistent.

besides, that is not how the trail has been reported. nowak was the first to put her name iin print. after all, there can be only ONE "outing".

dude1394 · 11-08-2005, 08:59 PM

Hey I'm not trying to absolve libby from any charge. But let's face it wilson has been putting her name out there since day one. If he truly wanted her to stay covert, he wouldn't have done all of the talking and op-ed writing, not to mention out and out lying about everything. So I don't really want to hear a bunch of whining about how she was treated so badly.

I mean it's not like dubya hired a bunch of folks to character assasinate her OR Wilson for that matter, like some other famous president we know. You know he didn't call her a stalker or anything like that. And last time I looked I didn't see libby or rove or dubya look into the camera, shake a bony finger and state "I did not out Valerie Plame".

Rhylan · 11-08-2005, 09:14 PM

Since when do covert operatives show up in Vanity Fair magazine, anyway?

Libby is a dumbass for lying under oath, and I agree that it's of interest to find out why and whether or not he felt he needed to protect something.. but nobody was outed out of anything.

Vanity. Fair. Magazine.

Gimme a break.

Mavdog · 11-08-2005, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by: dude1394
Hey I'm not trying to absolve libby from any charge. But let's face it wilson has been putting her name out there since day one. If he truly wanted her to stay covert, he wouldn't have done all of the talking and op-ed writing, not to mention out and out lying about everything. So I don't really want to hear a bunch of whining about how she was treated so badly.

in my view she is the true victim here, her career at CIA has been destroyed. all she did was mention her former ambassador husband for a job, you know, get him out of the house.

once Novak printed her name it was over for her in her job. once that was done, it doesn't matter who else said her name.

I mean it's not like dubya hired a bunch of folks to character assasinate her OR Wilson for that matter, like some other famous president we know. You know he didn't call her a stalker or anything like that. And last time I looked I didn't see libby or rove or dubya look into the camera, shake a bony finger and state "I did not out Valerie Plame".

we don't really know what bush did or didn't do or know. we do know that the leak came out of the white house, both rove and cheney were involved.

since those two are who is rumored to be really running things, maybe they just didn't tell him [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

dude1394 · 11-08-2005, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Mavdog
Originally posted by: dude1394
Hey I'm not trying to absolve libby from any charge. But let's face it wilson has been putting her name out there since day one. If he truly wanted her to stay covert, he wouldn't have done all of the talking and op-ed writing, not to mention out and out lying about everything. So I don't really want to hear a bunch of whining about how she was treated so badly.

in my view she is the true victim here, her career at CIA has been destroyed. all she did was mention her former ambassador husband for a job, you know, get him out of the house.

You are smoking something. She's been sitting at a desk for over 5 years now, she's no more "covert" than you are, in fact more people knew her name than know who "mavdog" is. Her career has been destroyed because she used her office at the CIA to send her incompetent husband to try and find something to smear her president with, it's called disloyalty. The CIA should be investigated here for gross incompetence.

Quote:

once Novak printed her name it was over for her in her job. once that was done, it doesn't matter who else said her name.

Again you are smoking something here, she hadn't been covert for more than 5 years THAT's why Fitzgerald could only get Libby on having differing recollections about what he told reporters.

Quote:

I mean it's not like dubya hired a bunch of folks to character assasinate her OR Wilson for that matter, like some other famous president we know. You know he didn't call her a stalker or anything like that. And last time I looked I didn't see libby or rove or dubya look into the camera, shake a bony finger and state "I did not out Valerie Plame".

we don't really know what bush did or didn't do or know. we do know that the leak came out of the white house, both rove and cheney were involved.

Sure we do, we know he didn't point his bony finger at you and tell you a bald faced lie.

Mavdog · 11-08-2005, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by: dude1394
You are smoking something. She's been sitting at a desk for over 5 years now, she's no more "covert" than you are, in fact more people knew her name than know who "mavdog" is. Her career has been destroyed because she used her office at the CIA to send her incompetent husband to try and find something to smear her president with, it's called disloyalty. The CIA should be investigated here for gross incompetence.

that's bs. when novak printed her name, she was supposedly an "energy consultant". NOBODY knew her name.

again you are smoking something here, she hadn't been covert for more than 5 years THAT's why Fitzgerald could only get Libby on having differing recollections about what he told reporters.

no, that is bs. fitzgerald would have difficulty in proving anyone <u>knowingly</u> revealed an operatives name with <u>intent</u> to expose. plame was a covert cia agent.

"differing recollections". i love it. "I didn't lie to you, I just had difffering recollections".

Sure we do, we know he didn't point his bony finger at you and tell you a bald faced lie.

no, we don't know that to be true.

FishForLunch · 11-09-2005, 12:28 AM

Yes I would like to know how these Federal employees can afford trendy homes in the DC area. We dont need any politicos who work in the CIA, just do your damn desk job answering email, taking coffee breaks, long lunch breaks and leave home at 4.

Epitome22 · 11-09-2005, 08:33 AM

The irony here being that a covert operative was outed by the administration and dude is calling for invesitagtion into the CIA for being 'disloyal' to the president. Thankfully honest, principled conservatives like Joe Scarborough have a clearer take on this issue than kneejerk GOP partisans and Bushbots.

dude1394 · 11-09-2005, 09:02 AM

Quote:

[i]kneejerk GOP partisans and Bushbots.

Eeek!

dude1394 · 07-17-2007, 10:32 AM

From Robert Novak...the orginal leaker. And imo he's is spot on.

Quote:

HH: Let me ask you, I’m bored silly by the Plame affair, Robert Novak, but I do have one question about your opinion: Why was Armitage not charged if Valerie Plame’s identity was a secret, and Patrick Fitzgerald was investigating its leak?

RN: Because there was no crime committed under the Intelligence Agents Identity Act. That bill was passed, Hugh, to protect intelligence agents overseas from being outed by left wing forces, and then marked for assassination. It was really a deadly serious act, nothing like somebody sitting in Langley in the CIA headquarters as Mrs. Wilson was, doing analysis. There was no crime committed under that act, and therefore, he was not charged. And so that is the whole problem with the Libby indictment. He was charged for obstructing justice when there was no underlying crime committed, or allegedly committed.

HH: Why did Fitzgerald, do you think, in your opinion, continue on with the investigation once Armitage had revealed it was he who was the leaker?

RN: Because…you know, when he entered the case, he was told that Armitage was the leaker. That information was given to him, because it had been known for three weeks before he was named as special prosecutor. And therefore, I think the Justice Department should have bitten the bullet and taken care of him itself. Why he did not reveal that is something that is in the mysteries of the whole, strange relationship of special prosecutors. It is very difficult for them to say no crime was committed, you’ve named me for nothing, and I’ve established a staff for nothing. But that’s in fact what he should have done.

Janett_Reno · 07-17-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epitome22

The irony here being that a covert operative was outed by the administration and dude is calling for invesitagtion into the CIA for being 'disloyal' to the president. Thankfully honest, principled conservatives like Joe Scarborough have a clearer take on this issue than kneejerk GOP partisans and Bushbots.

I watch his show, Joe Scarborough and i give all a fair shot, a Dem, Rep, Ind as long as i feel they are fair and i feel Joe is a fair Rep.

It will be more Bushbots falling to the wayside. I wish George and Dick would attend the ethics class. They could stop by and get thier buddy Donnie Ramsfield and take him to the class as well. Give them a 6-pack and lossen them up a little.

dude1394 · 07-17-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

Donnie Ramsfield and take him to the class as well. Give them a 6-pack and lossen them up a little.

Funny...you mangled the name so bad I had to google it.

Janett_Reno · 07-17-2007, 03:17 PM

I'm sorry, he has been out of office for a little while and i almost forgot how to spell his name. I do not miss him.

purplefrog · 07-17-2007, 05:59 PM

I think it is impossible to know the effects of Novak's column at this time. It is my understanding that in order to understand the consequences a "damage assessment" has to be completed by the CIA. To my knowledge this has not yet been done.

I also don't believe it is appropriate to blame Wilson for this unfortunate series of events and I can't see why anyone would make this claim. It may be the case that no crime was committed or maybe no crime could be proven. Regardless, those working in the White House should realize there is a potential risk when freely discussing Plame with reporters. It is hard for me to believe that they studied her career with a fine tooth comb and knew for a fact that she was not covert, not active, or whatever the critics are saying (I can't really follow their arguements to be perfectly honest). Their willingness to fight back in this way is irresponsible imo. Fight back at Wilson and his charges, but leave his wife out of the equation.

Also, anything that Novak says about this should be taken with a grain of salt. Seems to me there is a conflict of interest and/or bit of self-protection potentially going on here.

Mavdog · 07-17-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

From Robert Novak...the orginal leaker. And imo he's is spot on.

there are two seperate criminal acts that were investigated- the first being the plame/wilson episode, the second being acts by players involved in the first that would not be described as cooperating with the prosecutor.

make no mistake, scooter libby was convicted of a felony, he was convicted in a court of law, with full rights to his defense. guilty.

justify libby's committing his crime on the outcome of the first being negative? nah. he broke the law. that has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with his guilt or innocence.

any rational person would take the evidence and conclude that scooter took one for his boss, dick cheney, and I will be shocked if the commutation doesn't end up a pardon.

the whole attack on plame and wilson just shows how nasty and selfish that part of the administration is.

we're better off with those like scooter out of our government. nobody is above the law.

dude1394 · 07-17-2007, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mavdog

we're better off with those like scooter out of our government. nobody is above the law.

From all references that I have seen libby has been an honest person in public service. IMO this reeks of a zealous prosecutor, with the pretty much unlimited power of the federal government behind him. Making a case where none existed. Your hypothesis about cheney is nothing more than gossip and your own political bent.

IMO the zealous prosecutor is one of the most unaccountable persons in our government. They seldom are held accountable for the damage that they can do. I don't have much truck with them.

Mavdog · 07-17-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

From all references that I have seen libby has been an honest person in public service. IMO this reeks of a zealous prosecutor, with the pretty much unlimited power of the federal government behind him. Making a case where none existed. Your hypothesis about cheney is nothing more than gossip and your own political bent.

IMO the zealous prosecutor is one of the most unaccountable persons in our government. They seldom are held accountable for the damage that they can do. I don't have much truck with them.

apparently you're under the mistaken belief that the prosecutor not only tried scooter libby, but that the prosecutor was the judge and jury as well.

is it your position that the judge was not following correct procedure? or that the jury was somehow packed?

that "case where none existed" resulted in a guilty verdict after a trial. face it, libby committed a crime. a felony at that.

as for cheney, read the report. it was cheney who declassified plame's work so she could be outed, and it was cheney who orchestrated the attack on wilson thru proxies such as armitage and libby.

dude1394 · 07-17-2007, 10:13 PM

No...just that I have a (possibly irrational) fear of either a lawyer or (in this case) a prosecutor with no restraints put on him. I've seen lawyers absolutely harrass the hell out of someone buy just filing papers after papers on them.

This looks like a prosecutor that fished around until he found someone he could prosecute, but not what he was charged with. I haven't read enough of this to know all of the details, but all libby had to do was plead the fifth or not recall all day.

Novak certainly didn't feel she was covert, nor did fitzgerald find that anyone "outed" her, because no one was charged with it. As far as her being undercover, what the heck was her husband doing writing editorials for the NYTimes if her identity were important, it wasn't and isn't.

Wilson was being political when he wrote it and quite frankly deserved to be "attacked" because he was (and is) full of it.

The whole thing smacks of political payback to me,