Totally Disappointed in Dirk - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Day1MavsFan · 05-07-2006, 03:09 PM

Dirk showed why he isn't the player that can carry a team to any kind of significant success. After an 82 game regular season and first round of playoffs of being the go-to player on the team, he deferred to Jerry Stackhouse.

Where was Dirk in the 4th quarter?? Or, the whole game for that matter? I'll tell you where he was. He was somewhere out between the elbow and the three point line shooting fadaways over Bowen and Finley.

Where should he have been? Taking the ball inside on these smaller defenders and dunking on them or passing to open teammates if a second defender came off their man. He should have had his butt in the post, if Bowen was going to be guarding him, playing an inside-out game.

The perfect example of what I'm talking about was in the 3rd quarter with about 8 minutes to go. Dirk had perfect post position on Bowen, and Terry had the ball on the same side of the floor. Instead of waiting for the pass from Terry, Dirk vacated to the other side.

All of this talk about how Dirk has learned to play against smaller good defenders is hogwash. Yeah, he had one or two games in which he had success against them. Yet, I knew that that was not enough to indicate anything.

NO, Murphy, it does not matter what Dirk has accomplished in the regular season or in the first round of the playoffs. It doesn't mean shit.

Duncan showed what it means to totally dominant your defender. Duncan showed what it means to get open looks for your teammates. Dirk, on the other hand, showed what happens when you decide that you can only be a star player, a contributor on a great team, but not a superstar. Not because you don't have the talent, or ability... but because you refuse to use your skill as a 7-footer should. That is, as an efficient scorer or distributor against any defender.

So, when those of us on this board complain that we can't win it all, until Dirk plays in the post like a real power forward in the half court, this game today exemplifies what we mean. When people say that Dirk can't hold Duncan's jock, well, they're right, until Dirk proves otherwise. Unfortunately, Dirk hasn't shown us any reason to believe that he'll dominate as a skilled big man should, even against smaller defenders no less.

Some of you may respond that this is only one game, and that he's allowed to have a bad one. To that I say, game 1 is the most important of any in a seven game series. If ever there was a time to come up big, this was it. Dirk is the one who had all of the rest. Dirk is younger. Dirk should be hungrier. Without home court advantage, you almost have to win game 1.

I'm not saying you're a bad player, Dirk. I'm saying that you are wasting your ability to be a truly dominant player. Please stop teasing us. Please don't defer to Stackhouse in crunch time of the most important game of your life, for gods sake.

rabbitproof · 05-07-2006, 03:18 PM

A bit harsh but ultimately true (atleast for a day).

We all expect so much out of Dirk and Dirk wasn't even in the same planet as Duncan today. Dirk can be and should be the best player everytime he steps out onto the court.

More importantly, he's gotta do it when it counts (against the champs, in the crunch and matched up against first-rate defenders and superstars) and he will.

I have faith.

Dtownsfinest · 05-07-2006, 03:22 PM

I'm dissapointed in Dirk today. But before we right him off let's see how he reacts to what occurred today. Let's see how he responds to a poor effort. Give the Spurs credit. They played Dirk better than i've seen anyone play Dirk and that includes the Rockets last year. They were doubling him and even at times tripple teaming him and he didn't make the Spurs pay. That's a part of Dirk's game that still needs improvement. Passing out of the double team. But I thought Finley and especially Bowen played Dirk well today. They also had great help from Horry and Ginobilli at times.

Pongo · 05-07-2006, 03:29 PM

Stupid knee jerker. Have a little faith. A best of 7 series isn't decided after game 1.

"Without home court advantage, you almost have to win game 1." That, my friend, is nonsense.

We can and WILL win this series. Think positive!

It's Dirk's sytle to shoot the fade away J. Don't complain about it now, he does it EVERY game - mostly with success.

Day1MavsFan · 05-07-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

I'm dissapointed in Dirk today. But before we right him off let's see how he reacts to what occurred today. Let's see how he responds to a poor effort. Give the Spurs credit. They played Dirk better than i've seen anyone play Dirk and that includes the Rockets last year. They were doubling him and even at times tripple teaming him and he didn't make the Spurs pay. That's a part of Dirk's game that still needs improvement. Passing out of the double team. But I thought Finley and especially Bowen played Dirk well today. They also had great help from Horry and Ginobilli at times.

It's a lot easier to pass out of double-teams when you are in the post.

Let's hope that Dirk's passing skills improve before the rest of his skills diminish.

Dtownsfinest · 05-07-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

"Without home court advantage, you almost have to win game 1." That, my friend, is nonsense.

I don't think its nonsense. Your best chance at winning a 7 game series without homecourt advantage is to pull game 1. That's the game you need to sort of have leverage somewhat. You lose game 1 than your back is sort of against the wall. Game 2 sort of becomes a must win in a way. But losing Game 1 means nothing to me. If the Mavs are the better team(I think they are) they will win this series.

Pongo · 05-07-2006, 03:35 PM

There's still a decent chance to win the series. Win Game 2. Win your home games.
I won't lose faith just because of one single game. No way.

Dtownsfinest · 05-07-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

It's a lot easier to pass out of double-teams when you are in the post.

Let's hope that Dirk's passing skills improve before the rest of his skills diminish.

That's correct. That's on AJ. He needs to have it where when Dirk has a smaller guy on him he needs to be in the post and not at the mid range area. It also doesn't help that Terry couldn't buy a bucket today.

Day1MavsFan · 05-07-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pongo

Stupid knee jerker. Have a little faith. A best of 7 series isn't decided after game 1.

"Without home court advantage, you almost have to win game 1." That, my friend, is nonsense.

We can and WILL win this series. Think positive!

It's Dirk's sytle to shoot the fade away J. Don't complain about it now, he does it EVERY game - mostly with success.

Have you ever tracked Dirk's fadaways? He does not hit them mostly with success. Not even close.

The team that wins game 1 wins a seven-game series 82% of the time. Yeah, read that again and believe it, because it's true.

Before you call someone stupid, do your homework.

The game ain't about faith. Even so, what have I seen for me to justifiably have faith?

Dtownsfinest · 05-07-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pongo

There's still a decent chance to win the series. Win Game 2. Win your home games.
I won't lose faith just because of one single game. No way.

The series isn't over. I'm saying your best bet is to win game 1 if you are in a 7 game series without homecourt. Though I have us winning in a game 7 i'm sure the Mavs are praying this goes 6 games.

mavsfan1000 · 05-07-2006, 03:39 PM

Bowen was fouling the heck out of him. If Danny Crawford continues to ref than I don't like the mavs chances. Dallas has a horrible record with him as the ref.

Pongo · 05-07-2006, 03:40 PM

I agree... especially with the game 7 thing

Day1MavsFan · 05-07-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pongo

There's still a decent chance to win the series. Win Game 2. Win your home games.
I won't lose faith just because of one single game. No way.

You are asking them to win three in a row against the world champs. Decent chance of that? Of course, there is a chance, but I don't know how decent it is.

Dtownsfinest · 05-07-2006, 03:42 PM

The refs let Bowen play Dirk physical as hell. That's something Dirk isn't accustom too. Dirk's got to throw it back at Bowen. Instead of relying on your jumper play more aggressive on offense. Make Bowen work.

Pongo · 05-07-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

You are asking them to win three in a row against the world champs. Decent chance of that? Of course, there is a chance, but I don't know how decent it is.

okay, maybe I'm exaggerating here, but i still think that mavs can win 4 of the next 6 games.

aexchange · 05-07-2006, 03:53 PM

wow, this thread was unfortunate. talk about needing to chill out.

mavs5241 · 05-07-2006, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

Have you ever tracked Dirk's fadaways? He does not hit them mostly with success. Not even close.

The team that wins game 1 wins a seven-game series 82% of the time. Yeah, read that again and believe it, because it's true.

Before you call someone stupid, do your homework.

The game ain't about faith. Even so, what have I seen for me to justifiably have faith?

So your point is? Dirk is not the man, his jump shots are mostly unsuccessful therefore we'll never win a championship with Dirk? Team that wins game 1 wins the series 82% of the time so there's no chance for mavs to win? What IS your point??

Arne · 05-07-2006, 04:12 PM

We should start thinking about rebuilding after the season. I'm thinking about a KG-Dirk trade.

What do you guys think?

Drbio · 05-07-2006, 04:13 PM

I sure hope that is sarcasm.

Arne · 05-07-2006, 04:14 PM

Don't know, is it?

P.S.: Oh shit, I've got to change my sig...

Five-ofan · 05-07-2006, 04:30 PM

OMG. This is a wee bit early to give up dont you think? There is no point. He is the only person on the team that can throw a post entry pass. Well quis can too when he is playing well but its kinda hard when he isnt on the court. Basically it does no good to post if no one on your team can get you the ball. Dirk will be fine. The mavs will be fine. The spurs won a game. 1 game. They have to win 3 more. I for one still have extreme faith in the mavs winning the series. If you dont, dont let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.

mary · 05-07-2006, 04:45 PM

Quote:

I'm not saying you're a bad player, Dirk.

Thank god you clarified that.....

Quote:

Please don't defer to Stackhouse in crunch time of the most important game of your life, for gods sake.

That statement is so idiotic, I'm inclined to think its schtik.

Five-ofan · 05-07-2006, 04:48 PM

BTW just to let you know the last game is the most important game of a 7 game series. Teams that have won the last game of a series have won the series 100% of the time and i didnt even to look that up.

mavsfan1000 · 05-07-2006, 04:53 PM

What is the percentage of the team that won the last game of the series of who won the first game of the series? I bet it is around 80%.

Murphy3 · 05-07-2006, 05:01 PM

The Mavs came into today needing to take one of the first two on the road. After today, they still need to take one of the first two on the road.

So, why the knee jerking?

Simon2 · 05-07-2006, 06:55 PM

Dirk was disappointing today. He didn't play like he wanted to win. Of course, he wants to win but he didn't look like he wanted it really bad. How many times has he been Bowen's bucket boy? Hasn't he learned how to handle Bowen by now. Mavs lost today because Dirk didn't show up. If he doesn't show up, Mavs will have a hard time beating the Spurs. The tables have turned the Spurs NOW have Dirk and the Mavs have PAU. At least for one game....

dude1394 · 05-07-2006, 07:02 PM

Typical bullcrap. Guy has a bad game and all of a sudden he sucks. Sheesh fans can be ridiculous.

WraithXx · 05-07-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dude1394

Typical bullcrap. Guy has a bad game and all of a sudden he sucks. Sheesh fans can be ridiculous.

nobody (I didn't read all the posts) said he sucked, dammit

just like you or whoever gets dissapointed at Stackhouse, or Terry whenever they have a bad game, getting dissapointed in Dirk for being Bowen's bitch shouldn't be illegal

G-Man · 05-07-2006, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

The team that wins game 1 wins a seven-game series 82% of the time. Yeah, read that again and believe it, because it's true.

I can think of at least 20 reason that is a flawed and meaningless stat.
The 1st round of the playoffs includes 8 seven game series. The rest of the playoffs is a total of 7 seven game series. So simply having the top 8 teams hold serve, win game 1 at home, and eliminate the bottom 8, you get more than 50% of the series that make up that stat. How many upsets did we get in the 1st round? 1? Thats whu that stat means nothing in terms of the current situation.

Now if you want to redo your research and tell me what percentage of teams who win game one in the 2nd round win, you might be on to something. But look at the 2nd rounds. They too are filled with mismatches. To have a truly meaningful stat, tell me what happens when 2 60 win teams meet. Tell me what happens when the 2 best teams in a conference play.

What I saw was the Mavs failing to win a very winable game on the road in SA. But I also saw that the Mavs are totally capable of playing well enough to win there. Since I also know SA is good enough to win here, I know we can't afford to blow winnable games. But the sky isn't falling yet. They held the Mavs to 13 points in the 4th quarter. But we held them to 16. They needed Duncans best game to eek out a win. We almost won with Dirk and Jet playing one of their worst.

To say Dirk has to become Duncan to win is downright silly. He tried that last year against Houston, and early this year, and it didn't work. Thats like saying Jet has to become Tony Parker, or Howard has to play like Manu. Let Dirk play his game, and score his way, we'll be fine.

It wasn't over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, and it ain't over yet.

Get a grip, chicken little.

twelli · 05-07-2006, 08:12 PM

Day1MavsFan should rename himself Game1MavsKneeJerker.

Give me a break. After all that Dirk did so far, you think "he isn't the player that can carry a team to any kind of significant success".

We lost a game against the Spurs on the road by two points and everything is wrong all of a sudden?

EastDallasCowboy · 05-07-2006, 09:15 PM

Nobody said Dirk sucks.

Dirk is an amazing player. Dirk is a freak, and I mean that in a good way. Dirk had the best regular season of his career, and imo, should have been the MVP.

That said, there is a certain amount of knee jerking to this, as well as a certain amount of truth. Yes, it's just game 1 of a 7 game series. But it was a game the Mavs should have won. And being the high profile player and leader of this team, Dirk deserves some blame for them not winning it.

And considering he didn't have a great game, he deserves a little more blame. And considering what Duncan did, Dirk gets even more.

No one is saying Dirk sucks, but they're fairly heaping blame on him for this loss. If this team doesn't win, it IS Dirk's fault because he's the leader. Sure Avery and Cubes take some blame as well, but Dirk is the cornerstone of this franchise and the team's leader. He deserves blame for a loss and poor performance just as he deserves for wins and great performances.

What I can't understand is the blind defense of him no matter what that some folks on this board offer. Admit that he had a poor game (by his standards), give him some blame for the loss....and let it move on to game 2. After game 2, we'll judge once again.

kg_veteran · 05-07-2006, 09:54 PM

It's fair to place blame on Dirk for his part in the loss today.

It's not fair to say that he isn't ready to lead the team to a title. That's a conclusion we can't make yet. The series has just begun. The Mavs are going to win it, kneejerkers or not.

EastDallasCowboy · 05-07-2006, 10:45 PM

I'm not doing it, but it is certainly fair to say Dirk isn't ready to lead this team to a title.

Kudos and credit come with results, and we've yet to see any from Dirk in his career.

Once again, I'm not saying it....I'm just saying that it's a fair point to make.

Get the Mavs past the Spurs finally, and he'll get credit. Get the Spurs to the Finals, and he'll get even more. Win the finals, and the questions will stop and we'll name a street after him and retire his number.

But in the meantime, he has yet to prove anything.

endrity · 05-07-2006, 10:48 PM

What I don't understand in all of this, is if Dirk posted up Bowen up a little closer to the basket, the Spurs always send help. Why don't we start breaking that double team a little more efficiently. We knew this was coming. And by the way, I think Stack will have a great series, and this was not a coincedence. When we put him in, he is usually guarded by either Horry, or some other guy that comes off the bench (Finley, Barry). TD and Bowen are busy defending Dirk and JHo. So Stack will always have an advantage. It's up to him to produce.
However I would like AJ to take a page from the Kings of the early part of the decade. They always used Vlade or CWebb from the high post as initiators of the offense with almost everyone cutting to the basket. With TD guarding JHo that middle will be even more open. I think Dirk's passing skills have improved tremendously and we should be able to do this in parts against them. My two cents anyway.

MFFL · 05-07-2006, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Day1MavsFan

The team that wins game 1 wins a seven-game series 82% of the time. Yeah, read that again and believe it, because it's true.

Mostly because the winner of the first game was the HOME team. And since it was the HOME team, it had a BETTER record than the other team. So no suprises there.

AxdemxO · 05-08-2006, 12:37 AM

Wow some people on here are unbelievable..How do u just turn around and burn Dirk and the Team because of 1 game....its not like we lost by 20....it was by 2. Yea a loss is a loss...but there are many positives that can be takin out of this game and yet some of you so called fans are just taking the negative and bashin Dirk and the team. Dirk will b better next game and this game would have been ours if Terry hit one mor shot than he did...he was bad from the field. Its one game people ...relax...chill...do some whooossaaaaaa and we will b fine...and win the series. GO MAVS

Tokey41 · 05-08-2006, 01:19 AM

Dirk is still the man, the thing that worried me was when he said that he KNOWS hes not going to score 35+ in this series... I really hope he was just leading the Spurs into a false sense of security because if he believes that then we are in trouble.

I've never been a big fan of history stats... who cares if the team that wins game one in a seven game series wins 82% of the time? Those games weren't played by these two specific teams so why even use them as justification of your point? It doesnt make sense, they were all played by other teams that are completely irrelevant to this series. Game one is played by the team with the better record so it makes sense that the 1 seed beats the 8 seed, the 2 beats the 7, and etc. its expected that they will win game one at home and ultimately the series like someone else mentioned. But what makes this different is Dallas is the third best team in the league and SA is #2... this isint normal circumstances especially for the semis. I've NEVER understood that logic.

The Mavs didn't win game 1 in SA... well if they win game 2 they still steal HCA and even if they dont (albeit the pressure would be on then) that doesnt mean anything if they can play well at home until game 5 or 7...

And as for a KG for Dirk trade... dont joke like that. Minnesota wants to rebuild but we sure as hell don't, they could take Jho and some throw ins for KG but Dirk? Why!?

candid_snoop41 · 05-08-2006, 01:55 AM

disappointed in dirk...bullshit! he finished with what?20 and 14...1 turnover...passed the descicive shot to an open stack (who was hot)....dirk shot 40% ok,he missed some shots he usually makes,but he will be ok in this series...i hate people who like dirk when he scores 30+ and hate him when he scores 20 or something...and as you know he is not satisfied either.he'll recover----stop that trashtalk

Arne · 05-08-2006, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Dirk is still the man, the thing that worried me was when he said that he KNOWS hes not going to score 35+ in this series... I really hope he was just leading the Spurs into a false sense of security because if he believes that then we are in trouble.

I've never been a big fan of history stats... who cares if the team that wins game one in a seven game series wins 82% of the time? Those games weren't played by these two specific teams so why even use them as justification of your point? It doesnt make sense, they were all played by other teams that are completely irrelevant to this series. Game one is played by the team with the better record so it makes sense that the 1 seed beats the 8 seed, the 2 beats the 7, and etc. its expected that they will win game one at home and ultimately the series like someone else mentioned. But what makes this different is Dallas is the third best team in the league and SA is #2... this isint normal circumstances especially for the semis. I've NEVER understood that logic.

The Mavs didn't win game 1 in SA... well if they win game 2 they still steal HCA and even if they dont (albeit the pressure would be on then) that doesnt mean anything if they can play well at home until game 5 or 7...

And as for a KG for Dirk trade... dont joke like that. Minnesota wants to rebuild but we sure as hell don't, they could take Jho and some throw ins for KG but Dirk? Why!?

Like eminem would say: "I kiiiiiiiiid, I kiiiiiiiiid".

I was only kidding.

Concerning the history stats: How many times has the hometeam won a game seven? I guess the percentage is pretty high, but our Mavs still won some of those games although they were no at home.

We're gonna take this series.

aexchange · 05-08-2006, 07:30 AM

last year i recall a certain team being beat the first two games in the playoffs. they look frazzled and were unable to stop a dominant big man and his dynamic explosive swing guard counter part.

that team still won.

82% does not equal 100%. i hate that statistic. in 2002-2003, our little mavs also beat a certain team in the western conference finals in the 1st game. we went on to lose the series in 6 games.