Dirks heir - espn discussion - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

candid_snoop41 · 09-21-2006, 07:45 AM

Here's a discussion about who might become the new international superstar...Finally dirk gets some love on espn...i think its worth reading

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/s..._international

Q: Which player is most likely to eventually supplant Dirk Nowitzki as best international player in the NBA?

Chris Sheridan, ESPN Insider: I've got to stick with the choice of the past half-decade, Yao Ming. He only turned 26 a few days ago, and he can still become the most dominant center we've seen since Hakeem if he hits his prime in the next four or five seasons.

If he and Tracy McGrady could ever be paired completely healthy for 82 games, especially now with Shane Battier in the mix, this could easily be a 55-win team that could advance in the playoffs, and Yao would probably supplant Dirk in this category if he could take Houston to the Finals two years in a row.
John Denton, Florida Today: As strange as it might sound to Rockets fans, last season's back injury to McGrady might have been the best thing to happen to the Rockets in the long run.

Without McGrady dominating the ball, the offense ran through the hands of Yao. It forced him to assert himself and seek out shots rather than defer to others. And the results were sometimes jaw-dropping.

In March and April, he averaged 25.5 points and 10.7 rebounds while shooting 55 percent from the floor. He had a 20-game stretch late in the season where he scored at least 20 points 19 times and grabbed double-digit rebounds 17 times. He had back-to-back 36-point efforts against Dallas and New Jersey and hung 25 points and 17 rebounds on Los Angeles Clippers center Chris Kaman.

No, Yao will never have the physical force of Shaquille O'Neal or play with the fiery emotion of Alonzo Mourning. But what he just might do as his game continues to grow and his confidence continues to rise is revolutionize the way the position is played. His ability to hit the mid-range shot, hit free throws and hit back against those who try to hammer him on the lower block will help make Yao the game's best center long after Shaq retires.

John Denton covers the Orlando Magic for Florida Today.

Marc J. Spears, The Denver Post: Remember this name and don't try to spell it: Sofoklis Schortsanitis. Well, just remember his nickname: Baby Shaq.

The Los Angeles Clippers drafted the 6-foot-10, 300-pound plus center with the 34th pick in the second round of the 2003 NBA draft. At just 21 years old, Baby Shaq showed his superstar potential by playing well for his native Greece in the recent World Championship. He was a dominant force in the post for Greece, scoring 14 points on 6-of-7 shooting in a stunning semifinal victory over the United States in Japan.

Baby Shaq also made the highlight reels worldwide by dunking over Yao Ming in Japan, too. The Clippers, who could use some inside reserve help, made the mistake of not signing Baby Shaq to their roster this season. But after another year of playing overseas and losing some weight, expect Baby Shaq to be possibly one of the best rookies during the 2007-08 season and eventually blossom into an international star.

Marc J. Spears, who covers the NBA for The Denver Post, is a contributor to ESPN.com.

David Thorpe, Pro Training Center: It is important first to address how good Nowitzki truly is. In my view, he is the second-best offensive player on the planet, period. "Mr. 81" is the best. So with that said, and with all due respect to Yao and Manu and Boris, the next mega-superstar in the NBA born on foreign soil will be …

Darko Milicic. C'mon, you know Joe Dumars is no dummy. You know he must have watched hundreds of hours of tape and thousands of plays to take Darko at No. 2. And I know what he saw: Terrific athleticism and size, tremendous reflexes and a feel for the game, excellent skill-sets on the offensive end and a true shot-blocker. The game is easy for him. Had he been a rookie anywhere else but Detroit, all of you would have seen this. Now he has found a home in Orlando.

Remember, Darko just turned 21 this past summer. And he will be paired the perfect complement, Dwight Howard (imagine Howard's progress had he gone to Detroit as a rookie -- would he still have been a part of Team USA?). Darko can score from the perimeter, allowing Howard room to play inside. Together they will be formidable. And when Howard is resting, Darko can score with a variety of moves from the post.

The Magic will emerge as a contender this season, and Darko will be thrust into the spotlight -- the beginning of his ascension to Dirk's throne.

David Thorpe is executive director of the Pro Training Center in Clearwater, Fla., where he works as a personal coach for Udonis Haslem, Kevin Martin and other NBA players.

Brian Windhorst, Akron Beacon Journal: He'll probably never be as good as Dirk, but the international player who has the brightest future is Darko Milicic. Darko has time on his side; he just turned 21 in June and already has three seasons of famously harsh seasoning behind him.

He's always had classic European big-man traits, especially the ability to play on the perimeter and hit the mid- to long-range jumper. But he's now showing a willingness and strength to play with his back to the basket.

Playing for Serbia in the World Championship, Darko was a force in the post. He showed a remarkably effective left-handed hook shot and some other developing moves. More important, he looked like he wanted to be down there, showing aplomb and aggression at both ends. In a matchup against tournament MVP Pau Gasol and Spain, Darko scored 18 points, pulled down 15 rebounds and blocked three shots.

Plus, there's his mate in the Magic frontcourt, Dwight Howard. For various reasons, from how their talent sets mesh to how opposing teams will have to deploy coverage -- the physically stronger opposing big man will almost always have to attempt to body Howard -- Milicic has some advantages coming his way.

Brian Windhorst covers the Cleveland Cavaliers for the Akron Beacon Journal.

Ian Whittell, The (London) Times: I'm an unashamed Dirk fan. I saw Nowitzki in Germany and followed the World Team on which he starred in his U.S. breakout game at the Nike Hoop Summit in 1998.

That's why NOBODY will supplant Nowitzki as the NBA's best international player, at least not in the foreseeable future. In fact, given his age (28), work ethic and the inspiration he will draw from losing the Finals, you could make the case that the best is yet to come from the Dallas Mavericks forward.

I would also make the case that, by the time he has finished his career, it will be tough for anybody to supplant him, maybe for generations to come.

But enough of the semantics. Who is the next great international player out there? I could go for Britain's very own Joel Freeland, taken 30th by the Blazers in this year's draft, but even though one NBA European scout has told me he's convinced he could be as good as Nowitzki, Freeland's best is still more than a decade away.

So, in the hope of convincing him to accept a standing invitation to play for the Great Britain national team, I'm plumping for London-born Ben Gordon. (What? You didn't even know he was one of ours?!)

He might not be a fashionable choice, but this is a player, still only 23, who became the first rookie to win the Sixth Man award and who has few peers in the clutch category. Someone that good in the fourth quarter and that young has some future ahead of him.

MavsX · 09-21-2006, 08:32 AM

i hate yao ming

Ninkobei · 09-21-2006, 10:50 AM

yao is easy to beat, just push the ball and make his ass run. if he runs out of stamina at this age, imagine how bad it will be when dirk finally retires. also, I'm not so sure that Yao will still be around when Dirk retires, so how could he be the best european offensive player? Dirk is only a couple of years older than Yao anyway.

Flacolaco · 09-21-2006, 10:57 AM

Quote:

But enough of the semantics. Who is the next great international player out there? I could go for Britain's very own Joel Freeland, taken 30th by the Blazers in this year's draft, but even though one NBA European scout has told me he's convinced he could be as good as Nowitzki, Freeland's best is still more than a decade away.

A Brit? I have a hard time with that.

Then again...you've seen what Greeks can do.

Five-ofan · 09-21-2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

yao is easy to beat, just push the ball and make his ass run. if he runs out of stamina at this age, imagine how bad it will be when dirk finally retires. also, I'm not so sure that Yao will still be around when Dirk retires, so how could he be the best european offensive player? Dirk is only a couple of years older than Yao anyway.

Im 100% certain Yao will never be a top 5 european player.

Five-ofan · 09-21-2006, 11:07 AM

By 2010 dirk will still be the best(he will only be 32) but thabo sefalosha will be good. Not dirk good or anything but he should be a solid player.

craggmac · 09-21-2006, 11:38 AM

yao ming is weak. He's only a step up from being Shawn Bradley.

kriD · 09-21-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

A Brit? I have a hard time with that.

Pops is a Brit too, BTW

Five-ofan · 09-21-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craggmac

yao ming is weak. He's only a step up from being Shawn Bradley.

Not at all what i meant. I love Yao. He is a stud.

#1MavsFan · 09-21-2006, 12:16 PM

I think he meant yao won't be a top 5 european player since he's asian.

fluid.forty.one · 09-21-2006, 12:27 PM

I especially like what Ian Whittell wrote.

Tokey41 · 09-21-2006, 12:39 PM

Darko wont be anywhere near as good as Dirk, but he will the best out of the mentioned players. I dont know why the experts didn't suggest AK-47.

WurzburgBorn · 09-21-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

I dont know why the experts didn't suggest AK-47.

A good point. I was wondering how he got forgotten too.

fluid.forty.one · 09-21-2006, 12:50 PM

I think it's funny that they mentioned yao. He's what, two years younger than Dirk? He's going to have to mature his game quickly if he wants to take Dirks place, and keep his skill up as well.

Nash13 · 09-21-2006, 02:21 PM

This discussion is silly. None of these people are going to surpass Dirk. Along with talent, the player that surpasses Dirk will have to lead his team to wins in the season and playoffs. Not Yao Ming, Kirilenko, or any other player currently in the NBA can be leader of a 60 win team and take said team to the finals.

Captain Disaster · 09-21-2006, 09:02 PM

I find it so interesting that few give Dirk the direct respect he is due; preferring instead to give him backhanded compliments by always looking for the next Dirk instead.

Five-ofan · 09-21-2006, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Disaster

I find it so interesting that few give Dirk the direct respect he is due; preferring instead to give him backhanded compliments by always looking for the next Dirk instead.

Looking for the next dirk isnt a backhanded compliment. People are always looking for the next bird and especially jordan too. Magic to a lesser extent. Its an extreme compliment that the supposed next dirk that everyone knows wont be as good as dirk went number 1 overall. Dont look for an insult in everything.

Locked_Up_Tonight · 09-21-2006, 10:23 PM

The difference though is when people look for the next Bird, Magic or Mj... they never say: he will be better than those guys.

When people look for the next Dirk... they seem to always say that the so called prospect will be better than Dirk.

AxdemxO · 09-21-2006, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Five-ofan

Im 100% certain Yao will never be a top 5 european player.

Ummm....u do know that Yao is not from Europe..rite?? China= Asia

Therefore i guarentee that Yao willnever be a top 5 Eauro player and put a million dollars on it.

Five-ofan · 09-21-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Ummm....u do know that Yao is not from Europe..rite?? China= Asia

Therefore i guarentee that Yao willnever be a top 5 Eauro player and put a million dollars on it.

Ummmm.... Yes i get that

That was kind of the point. Yao is already a top 5 international player and one whom i would absolutely love to have.

endrity · 09-21-2006, 11:39 PM

I am pretty sure that is why he said it! It is a little thing called irony.

#1MavsFan · 09-22-2006, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

The difference though is when people look for the next Bird, Magic or Mj... they never say: he will be better than those guys.

When people look for the next Dirk... they seem to always say that the so called prospect will be better than Dirk.

Maybe because bird, magic, and mj have titles while dirk is still working hard for one. This article is a compliment for dirk, quit nit-picking at it.

candid_snoop41 · 09-22-2006, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #1MavsFan

Maybe because bird, magic, and mj have titles while dirk is still working hard for one. This article is a compliment for dirk, quit nit-picking at it.

approved! The article is definitely a compliment for dirk. Compared to espn - "insider"- articles published one or two years ago dirk is better off. More "insiders" seem to respect his game. Im tired about lebron,wade,melo sh** on espn...lets face it- dirk is a superstar and a top 3 player (at least imo). I don't see any european (or international) player who will be able to reach dirks level.

rock on mavs

V2M · 09-22-2006, 09:07 AM

Reigning MVP is international.

Five-ofan · 09-22-2006, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V2M

Reigning MVP is international.

And yet there isnt an argument to be made for him being a better basketball player than dirk...

SaltwaterChaffy · 09-22-2006, 11:58 AM

Yao Ming is already the best center in the league, and he's still improving. He might be able to surpass Dirk sometime in the next few years, but I doubt it.

He will certainly be the 2nd best International player.

Five-ofan · 09-22-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaltwaterChaffy

Yao Ming is already the best center in the league, and he's still improving. He might be able to surpass Dirk sometime in the next few years, but I doubt it.

He will certainly be the 2nd best International player.

Yes he will about the second best international player. I think his prime might last longer than dirks because his height or shooting touch wont go anywhere and doesnt really rely on athletecism. Its not like Dirk is lebron or anything athletically but he does rely on a very good first step more than people think. I dont think we will really see much of a decline in dirk till he is about 34/35 but about that time, Yao could pass him.

vinylstar · 09-22-2006, 05:06 PM

why is this not "nash's heir?" if the guy is the mvp of the entire freakin' league two years in a row, how is not the best international player?

Five-ofan · 09-22-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinylstar

why is this not "nash's heir?" if the guy is the mvp of the entire freakin' league two years in a row, how is not the best international player?

becauseA) most people dont think of canadian as international since its the same continent and B)(this is the more important one) not once in the steve nash MVP debates was anyone foolish enough to make the argument of his MVPness based on him being the best player because they would get laughed out of whatever building they are in.

fluid.forty.one · 09-22-2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vinylstar

why is this not "nash's heir?" if the guy is the mvp of the entire freakin' league two years in a row, how is not the best international player?

LOL

Wait so you're saying Nash is the best player in the league because he won two MVPs? I think even phx fans know that Dirks a far better basketball player than Nash. I'm not even sure if nash could be mentioned in the top 10 players in the league.

Duncan
KG
Lebron
Wade
Dirk
Tmac
Kobe
AI
Brand
Arenas

are all a lot better than him, and that took 2 seconds of thought. I'm sure there's many more.

Dirkadirkastan · 09-22-2006, 06:22 PM

Nash's heir would be based on skill set, like supreme court-vision or something, not sheer greatness.

Tokey41 · 09-22-2006, 07:14 PM

Nash haters? Please. Give the guy his props, personally I dont think he deserved the second MVP but anyone who ignores the fact he is the catalyst in PHX is the one who will be laughed out of a room. You could pair him with any bunch of athletic morons who only know how to play offense and you know what? They will be the third best team in the west. Oh wait... that is a reality.

He IS technically international and is without question one of the top international players... and career wise he already has surpassed Dirk with those MVP awards.

fluid.forty.one · 09-22-2006, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Nash haters? Please. Give the guy his props, personally I dont think he deserved the second MVP but anyone who ignores the fact he is the catalyst in PHX is the one who will be laughed out of a room. You could pair him with any bunch of athletic morons who only know how to play offense and you know what? They will be the third best team in the west. Oh wait... that is a reality.

He IS technically international and is without question one of the top international players... and career wise he already has surpassed Dirk with those MVP awards.

We're talking about someone surpassing someone elses skill. I think the whole world knows that Dirk is a MUCH better basketball player than Nash. Not a better play makers, not a better passer, but a better overall player. There's not even a competition.

Tokey41 · 09-22-2006, 09:19 PM

Well career wise Nash is ahead, thats my point. Whether you agree that he deserves those MVP's or not is irrelevant because its in the history books and they are his accomplishments to claim.

We can all agree that Dirk is a better player. Thats not in question at all, i'm just tired of people saying how unfair it is that Dirk although clearly a better player did not get the MVP. Thats NOT what they base the award off of obviously. Nash was simply more crucial to the Suns success than Dirk was to the Mavs. I firmly believe Nash is the sole piece that makes the Suns engine go however, the Mavs are deep enough not to rely heavily on Dirk at least thats the general assumption.

So to summarize... the international player with the most success in the NBA would be Nash, unless you count Duncan but since hes played for the U.S team thats not really fair.

Five-ofan · 09-22-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokey41

Well career wise Nash is ahead, thats my point. Whether you agree that he deserves those MVP's or not is irrelevant because its in the history books and they are his accomplishments to claim.

We can all agree that Dirk is a better player. Thats not in question at all, i'm just tired of people saying how unfair it is that Dirk although clearly a better player did not get the MVP. Thats NOT what they base the award off of obviously. Nash was simply more crucial to the Suns success than Dirk was to the Mavs. I firmly believe Nash is the sole piece that makes the Suns engine go however, the Mavs are deep enough not to rely heavily on Dirk at least thats the general assumption.

So to summarize... the international player with the most success in the NBA would be Nash, unless you count Duncan but since hes played for the U.S team thats not really fair.

I still dont understand how nash is considered more important to the suns when the mavs are better and they have extremely similar supporting casts. If anything, the suns have more talent than dallas outside of the superstars. That general assumption you mentioned is alot of BS.

rabbitproof · 09-22-2006, 10:08 PM

Yao probably.

I don't think he will surpass Dirk while Dirk is priming but as the next best international. He's already #2. If he puts seasons together like he was playing before he got hurt, it's not even a question.

G-Man · 09-22-2006, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craggmac

yao ming is weak. He's only a step up from being Shawn Bradley.

That's mean, false, and damned funny!

Hitman · 09-23-2006, 09:32 AM

I honestly think that in 2010, Darko Milicic will be one of the top 5 players in the NBA. He has all the tools - 7'1", great shooting touch, great feel for the game, gifted passer with a mean streak gained from the streets of war torn Yugoslavia (and the end of the Pistons bench)

Watch out for him and DHoward this year in the East.

nashtymavsfan13 · 09-23-2006, 02:06 PM

The Magic have a chance to be very good in the next couple of years. They've got a very good young team locked up for awhile.

Five-ofan · 09-23-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitman

I honestly think that in 2010, Darko Milicic will be one of the top 5 players in the NBA. He has all the tools - 7'1", great shooting touch, great feel for the game, gifted passer with a mean streak gained from the streets of war torn Yugoslavia (and the end of the Pistons bench)

Watch out for him and DHoward this year in the East.

I wouldnt go that far but that is one scary big man combo. I have cooled on d12 though. He needs to learn some kind of an offensive move. He is a freak but until he learns something besides the putback dunk im not sure how dangerous they will really be..