The Truth About Dirk In Big Games

[Dr.Zoidberg]

From DallasBasketball.com: http://www.dallasbasketball.com/home_display.asp

The Truth About Dirk In Big Games


Phoenix is still celebrating that HUGE regular-season victory over Dallas (so HUGE it should propel Phoenix to finish within six-or-so games of the Mavs in the standings) by "smoking them like rabbits.''While I ponder exactly what God-forsaken part of the planet must a human eminate from to be so comfortable with the "smoking of rabbits'' that those three words become part of his every-day vernacular), I also ponder how MavsWorld cannot even muster up any enthusiasm over an all-too-rare Southwest Division title.


Previous to this week, how all-too-rare have they been? We've won one outright. One. In 1987, so long ago, kids, that basketball players used to actually show their legs.


So. ... Yippee! We did it!


We didn't need Tuesday's late-late-late-night 97-93 victory at Sacto to clinch the division; that was actually accomplished on April Fools Day, when Dallas' loss at the Suns was followed up by San Antonio's sleep-walk against the Pacers. And maybe DB.com hasn't made a big enough deal of the accomplishment. Maybe we're so caught up in "streaks'' and "championship hopes'' and "big games'' that we aren't appreciative enough about what's been accomplished over the course of 74 games.


So. ... Yippee! We did it!


Speaking of "big games,'' I decided to spend Tuesday night listening to Mark and Coach O and Coop and Brad in the background while putting none other than Dirk Nowitzki in the foreground. Dirk sat out the game (just the 23rd time in his pro life he's done that) with food poisoning -- said Avery Johnson, "I told him he needs to eat more with me at night and he won't have those problems. I know all the good places'' -- which pushed me into a night of research.


Research about "big games.'' And the odd rep Dirk has in some circles for not playing well in them.
The horribly dunderheaded Sam Smith of the Chicago Tribune is the latest to spew this drivel, writing, "One or two games should not determine the award, but great players, the MVPs, understand when it's a big game and rise to the occasion. You never saw Jordan or Magic or Larry Bird slough off a loss in the regular season.''


Before I get to Smith's assessment of Dirk (a shockingly common one from people who obviously have either selective memory or no DirecTV), a quick dismissal of his historical take on Jordan, Magic and Bird: They NEVER "sloughed off'' or had a subpar game in the regular season? NEVER? What happened when they played each other, ya dope ya? Or when they guarded each other? Did BOTH teams win? Did BOTH players succeed?


(Jesus, this is frustrating.)


OK. Is there any validity at all to the notion that Dirk suffers shrinkage in this season's "big games''? After all, didn't his Mavs lose two "big games'' to Phoenix in the span of a month?
Before I get to the research, let's set the ground rules.
It's subjective, but I'll generously use the Sam Smith-type definition of "big game'' here. "Big games'' involving the Mavs are on Sundays on ABC. They're against the marquee teams, they're against their rivals, they're against hot "trendy'' teams, they're against superstar individuals. The LeBron games and the Kobe games and the games in which the network trots out those whorish Pussycat Doll girls in cleavage-cut NBA jersey-dresses.


Good enough?


Trust me, I did no cherrypicking here. I didn't search out any certain high- or low-performance games on purpose, nor did I eliminate even "big games'' that were so dominated by Dallas that Dirk played limited minutes. I simply chose, again, games that Dirk's critics would choose, at the time they were played, when trying to define "big games.'' The ones TNT and ESPN wanted. The ones that led the sportscasts. The ones that Barkley and Peter V. and Sam Smith bother flipping on. The ones that would in theory give fuel to the critics of The UberMan's "big-game'' hunting.


Here goes:


* Nov. 2 h Spurs L 91-97 9-20 FGs, 1-2 FTs, 11 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 1 block, 21 points.


* Nov. 9 @ Phx W 119-112 11-19 FGs, 12-12 FTS, 7 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 35 points.


* Nov. 24 @ Spurs W 95-92 12-23 FGs, 6-6 FTs, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 31 points.


* Dec. 7 h Pistons L 82-92 9-15 FGs, 10-10 FTs, 9 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 29 points.


* Dec 13 h Lakers W 110-101 8-14 FGs, 7-10 FTs, 14 rebounds, 8 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 23 points.


* Dec 28 h Phx W 101-99 8-20 FGs, 10-11 FTs, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 27 points.


* Jan 5 @ Spurs W 90-85 14-23 FGs, 6-6 FTs, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 steals, 36 points.


* Jan 7 Lakers L 98-101 10-24 FGs, 8-8 FTs, 13 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 29 points.


* Jan 14 @ Tor W 97-96 14-30 FGs, 7-9 FTs, 11 rebounds, 5 assists, 2 steals, 3 blocks, 38 points.


* Jan 18 h Lakers W 114-95 11-18 FGs, 3-3 FTs, 10 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 27 points.


* Jan 21 @ Miami W 99-93 10-23 FGs, 2-3 FTs, 11 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal,1 block, 22 points.


* Feb 22 h Miami W 112-100 11-17 FGs, 9-9 FTs, 11 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal, 2 blocks, 31 points.


* Mar 1 h Cleve W 95-92 9-19 FGs, 6-6 FTs, 11 rebounds, 7 assists, 24 points.


* Mar 11 @ Lakers W 108-72 6-13 FGs, 7-7 FTs, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 19 points.


* Mar 14 h Suns L 127-129 11-28 FGs, 8-12 FTs, 16 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 block, 30 points.


* Mar 18 @ Pistons W 92-88 11-20 FGs, 4-5 FTs, 12 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 block, 28 points.


* Mar 21 @ Cleve W 98-90 9-24 FGs, 3-3 FGs, 9 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 23 points.


* Apr 1 @ Phx L 104-126 6-18 FGs, 9-9 FTs, 6 rebounds, 6 assists, 21 points.


That's 18 games. Again, you and I know that there have been other "big games.'' (Or maybe, because of our rare and freshly-minted division title, we should agree that they've all been "big''!) But for the sake of the casual observer, the Dirk disliker, and I guess even dunderheaded national media people who actually have MVP votes but are nevertheless in need of a Common Sense Injection, I'm making it awfully simple.
Crummy ol' no-show Dirk, in those 18 "big games,'' has produced:


* 11 games in which he's scored 27 points or more;
* 48.6-percent shooting from the field;
* 90-percent shooting from the line;
* 14 games in which he's totaled 9 rebounds or more;
* 6 games in which he's totaled 5 assists or more;
* 12 double-doubles;
* Leadership of a team that, in those "toughest'' and "spot-lit'' games, has a 13-5 record.
* An average linescore of 10.2 rebounds, 4 assists and 27.4 points.


Dirk "doesn't show up in big games''? Those numbers are all the essentially the same or better than Nowitzki's stats over the course of all 74 games -- all of which, to the starved-for-success Mavs fan, should be considered "big.''

[left texas]

MVP

[robo98564]

GREAT read... thanks for posting

i dont care whether Dirk is MVP or not, im just glad hes on our side

[dude1394]

Good stuff by the fish.

[juckie]

he is the man and the mvp,espn creates this crap.cause he missed those fouls shots against miami.

[MavsX]

nice work bro

[jacktruth]

Dirk was also on one of a few teams that came back from 2-0 to win a 5-game series, and one of the few teams that came back from 3-0 to win a 7-game series.

How many teams have done both of those things. Let's not forget his 50 against phoenix, and his play in the SA series last year.

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

When did the Mavs being down 3-0 come back and win a series?

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by juckie

he is the man and the mvp,espn creates this crap.cause he missed those fouls shots against miami.

foul SHOT if I recall correctly. He was 3-4 in the fourth.

Diva was 2-3 (choker).

[The Crippler]

someone send that stuff to Craig Miller and George Dunham at the Ticket. They were talking about this topic this morning saying that Nash shows up during big games and Dirk does not.

[spreedom]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

Dirk was also on one of a few teams that came back from 3-0 to win a 7-game series.

Um.. has that EVER happened in the NBA period, let alone with the Mavs?

[Dtownsfinest]

I think he's referring to the Utah and Mavs series that ended the long playoff drought. But even then that was a 5 game series so i'm not sure what he's talking about.

[jacktruth]

Originally Posted by spreedom

Um.. has that EVER happened in the NBA period, let alone with the Mavs?

Sorry. It was down 2-0 to houston in 04-05.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

Sorry. It was down 2-0 to houston in 04-05.

They were down by double digits late in Game 3 too, before going on a 20-0 run I think.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Like Hollinger said, "Nash is great but Dirk is in a different league"

[G-Man]

This article is one of Fish's best. Hope his buddy Marc Stein sees it and shares it with the nation. Its interesting to see how many of the games where his shooting is below 50%, he makes it up somewhere else. Like against CLE when he gets 6 assists, or the Suns with 16 rebounds, Tor 11 rebounds and 5 dimes or 14 rebounds and 8 dimes against the Laker's.

It all adds up to MVP stuff. The guy does whatever it takes. He steps back and lets his teammates succeed, then he takes over when they don't. He is so the opposite of Kobe, its hard to put their names in the same sentence. If Kobe played the way Dirk does, within himself and within the team concept, he'd be the runaway winner. But he scores like a maniac and acts like a punk.

Nash, on the other hand, has a good attitude, but is less of a leader and is not expanding his game on a nightly basis to make his team better. PHX is pretty much exactly the same team it was when Nash arrived 3 years ago. The Mavs are a completely different team since he left. New people, new system, new attitude and great defense. If they want to give the award to him again for doing what he's always done, pass great and play no D, fine. It devalues the award. This Fish article shows why.

[NewMexiMav]

Best article by Fish in years!

Case closed . . . Dirk = MVP

[mffl03]

Marc Stein was on the radio earlier in the day commenting on somewhat of the samething, pointing out how Dirk got no street cred for hitting the game shot in that game vs Phoenix, but it's quickly obvious and yelled loudly if he chokes.

BTW, when did Marc Stein become such a Mav homer? He alluded to interviews done in January when the Mavs played the Rockets and Lakers. When did he start hanging around the team this much? He gives em mad props though.

[Dr.Zoidberg]

I find it interesting that Dirk by now missed only 23 games in his NBA career. Although he´s playing a great amount of time, he never was hurt seriously. Of course you need a little luck too, to do so, but even if he was hurt (his usual ankle injuries), it mostly didn´t stop him from playing. This compared with many other NBA players also makes him very special and shows that he is made of sterner stuff.

[kingmalaki]

Unfortunately folks only remember what hapened last, and playoff stuff over regular season stuff...so the Miami failure is still in a lot of folks heads (i.e. the average fan who isn't really a Dirk or Mavs fan). The good thing is Dirk can make everyone forget once the playoffs come. I truly thought he turned the corner on stepping up in big moments after the SA series....then the Finals happened....

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

BTW, when did Marc Stein become such a Mav homer? He alluded to interviews done in January when the Mavs played the Rockets and Lakers. When did he start hanging around the team this much? He gives em mad props though.

To me he's always been that way. He used to write the NBA Column for the Dallas Morning News, before joining ESPN.

I will once again point ouyt Dirk gets the least respect from a superstar because he's a white FOREIGNER. It's okay for a black guy to dominate Stern's league. It's okay for a white guy to dominate Stern's league. But it isn't okay for a white foreigner to do it.

If Dirk was born in America, he'd be the greatest thing. But since he isn't... since he came from Europe... he's just okay. He's soft. He's a Euro! Etc.

(And no Steve Nash is not in that place. Nash went to school in the US and NEVEr participates in international events anymore.)

[alexamenos]

i was flippin' back-n-forth between the game and NBA Coast-to-Coast last night and it struck me yet again just how much the national commentators are just full of s---...

It wasn't that they were saying anything bad about the mavs. Actually, they were being exceedingly complimentary -- too complimentary in fact. It was just one vapid and shallow comment after another, spoken with great inflection.

The coast to coast team knew that the mavs were having their way with the lowly kings all along. C-to-C didn't even have to watch any of the game. They just knew, damn the reality. Reality was, the mavs weren't toying with the Kings last night until the fourth quarter, they were doing everything they could to keep it close.

these guys.....they've got a story and they're sticking too it.

dirk's a choker. that's a three word position, it's easy to remember, and given 80 odd games a regular season and 8 season of post season play there's ample opportunity to find games where Dirk hasn't played great in the post season....once the meme takes hold it has a life of it's own.

and there's the nonsense of guys saying "I thought he had turned the corner in the playoffs last year, but he's still got something to prove to me after the finals." such goofy stuff...i'll grant you that if you begin an argument that dirk isn't clutch by dismissing all the games where dirk has been tremendously clutch, then the argumetn holds up a bit better.

[Mavs Rule]

Originally Posted by Dr.Zoidberg

From DallasBasketball.com: http://www.dallasbasketball.com/home_display.asp

The Truth About Dirk In Big Games


* An average linescore of 10.2 rebounds, 4 assists and 27.4 points.


Dirk "doesn't show up in big games''? Those numbers are all the essentially the same or better than Nowitzki's stats over the course of all 74 games -- all of which, to the starved-for-success Mavs fan, should be considered "big.''

What a nice buildup, and very strong finish with these two clinchers! Nice article Fish!

[nashtymavsfan13]

Great read, thanks for posting this.

[chumdawg]

I applaud Fish's enthusiasm, and of course you cannot argue with the data, but the problem is that to the lay observer--which Fish is trying to respond to--he's not addressing the right "big games." The lay observer is concerned first and foremost with the last four games of the NBA Finals last year, and perhaps with the recurring matchups with the Suns that seem to continuously degenerate into a situation toward the end where Nash outshines his former teammate.

It's part of that conundrum where the regular season means nothing, for teams like these. The only things that mean anything are playoff games, and to a lesser extent regular season games that look like playoff games. It is a tribute to both the Mavs and the Suns that their regular season games always look like playoff games, no matter when they play them--and to a somewhat lesser extent, also the Mavs-Spurs games.

I love Dirk, of course, but I do have a sneaking suspicion that he shrinks somewhat when faced by certain opponents. Interestingly enough, I don't count the Spurs among that group. He seems to show up, always, against the Spurs. But to my eye, he seems to shrink against two players: Nash and Kobe.

Maybe I'm wrong, but he seems a little off against both those guy's teams, at least when things are going well for them.

[Nemesis]

um...Mavs 4 - Suns 2 06 playoffs..

nothing else needs to be said.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

and perhaps with the recurring matchups with the Suns that seem to continuously degenerate into a situation toward the end where Nash outshines his former teammate.

Bullshit. How many freaking times must we be reminded?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo

and, in case you forgot already,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo

Oh yeah, and you might want to look at this too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vy0kI4SMvo

Nash always outshines his former teammate, my ass.

[Lor20]

The fact that dirk has only missed 23 games shows his dedication to the team and the game - I am sure other players would have easily missed 50-90 games with the kind of injuries and sicknesses he had. as long as dirk is able to walk you have to lock him in his hotelroom to keep him off the court.That also sometimes makes him seem less "great".
he still isnt fully recovered from the ankle injury (and turning it twice more against milwaukee and phoenix). I cant remember what game it happened in - i just remember him turning his ankle one game and then starting the next game his rebounding numbers dipped.
the numbers of the last games were:
march 12th: 13/9/4
march 14th: 30/16/6
march 16th: 30/12/4
march 18th: 28/12/2
march 20th: 24/5/1
march 21st: 23/9/6
march 23rd: 20/4/3
march 25th: 28/4/2
march 27th: 15/3/1
march 28th: 17/5/1
april 1st: 21/6/6
april 3rd: sat out.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Bullshit. How many freaking times must we be reminded?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo

and, in case you forgot already,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo

Oh yeah, and you might want to look at this too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vy0kI4SMvo

Nash always outshines his former teammate, my ass.

Would you mind putting that in text form? Thanks.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

um...Mavs 4 - Suns 2 06 playoffs..

nothing else needs to be said.

What if you looked at the year before that?

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

Bullshit. How many freaking times must we be reminded?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo

and, in case you forgot already,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eLB5x24wmo

Oh yeah, and you might want to look at this too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vy0kI4SMvo

Nash always outshines his former teammate, my ass.

Okay, you got me, I bit. Five links to one shot. Nice. I saw it live, already. Beautiful shot by Nowitzki, we will all recognize.

And Dirk for 50. Nice. I know. That's what makes Dirk Dirk.

But Dirk doesn't normally miss clutch free throws like he missed them against the Suns. He doesn't normally miss badly on potential game winners like he did at least once against the Suns. And he certainly doesn't normally get abused by short point guards on defense like he does against Nash and the Suns.

I'm just saying, the Suns are a tough match for Dirk. Hell, they knocked him out of the playoffs two years ago.

In other words, I'm not making this up.

[fluid.forty.one]

So wait since the Suns beat Dallas 2 years ago, and Dallas beat the Suns 1 year ago, does that mean Dirk has a tough time with Nash AND Nash has a tough time with Dirk?

WOwww... Maybe both teams should just sit each player so there's no chance for them to choke. ALSO I'm not sure why you're weighing the earlier playoff series over the more recent playoff series... or why you're weighing the last two regular season games against the suns this year over the first two regular season games against them... other than the fact that those back up your point, and the other ones don't.

What was your point by the way?

[chumdawg]

My point was that when it mattered the most--and the outcome was undetermined--Dirk appeared to shrink in the face of Nash. Get it?

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

My point was that when it mattered the most--and the outcome was undetermined--Dirk appeared to shrink in the face of Nash. Get it?

No, if anything, they're even. fluid said it best. Why do the later games matter more than the previous ones? And if you can argue that, then why the hell would the earlier playoff series be more important?

Chum, you have been beaten to a pulp yet again; the only thing you have left going for you is your Nash nut-hugging (yeah I said it) stubbornness.

[mqywaaah]

This is a great read indeed. Loved that part about Magic and Larry and Mike never sloughing a game. What happened when they guarded each other? Did Both teams win? LOL hahaha priceless


Pretty good as a sig to me.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

No, if anything, they're even. fluid said it best. Why do the later games matter more than the previous ones? And if you can argue that, then why the hell would the earlier playoff series be more important?

Chum, you have been beaten to a pulp yet again; the only thing you have left going for you is your Nash nut-hugging (yeah I said it) stubbornness.

I'd appreciate it if you left non-objective characterizations out of this discussion. Because I do think we can have a good discussion on the merits.

The latter games matter more than the previous ones because this is the time frame when teams are gearing up for the post-season. You can suggest all you want that the Mavs cared nothing about their last meetings with the Suns, but I will not believe you.

We can just go ahead and say that the regular-season games mean nothing, in which case we can all reconvene here in the third round. Or, we can talk about what evidence we have in front of us for how things might play out in the future (pretty much exactly what we do here on this board).

Which do you prefer? Leave it for the post-mortem? Or try to predict?

I'm in the try-to-predict camp--don't know about you. And what I have seen from Dirk in the last three years is that the performance against the Suns (and Lakers) is sometimes iffy.

Deny it if you like, and counter it if you can. It is what it is.

[Dirkadirkastan]

What did Nash do in the conference finals last year? I don't remember anything that particularly stung.

Seriously, the standards people have for Nash and Nowitzki aren't the same. When Dirk messes up, the NBA world goes ballistic, but when little Stevie makes a boo-boo, everyone's willing to let it slide.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

What did Nash do in the conference finals last year? I don't remember anything that particularly stung.

Seriously, the standards people have for Nash and Nowitzki aren't the same. When Dirk messes up, the NBA world goes ballistic, but when little Stevie makes a boo-boo, everyone's willing to let it slide.

Did you just try to slide out of the discussion?

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Did you just try to slide out of the discussion?

It's a two-sided argument. You said Nowitzki is consistently outshined by his former teammate. I don't think that's true at all. Dirk had his career playoff high in points against his former teammate (so did Nash, but that was by design. Dallas won the game). He had his clutch jumper against his former teammate this season (granted, so did Nash).

There really is no "consistent outshining" here. Unless you overblow Nash's accomplishments, and belittle Dirk's.

[chumdawg]

I don't belittle either. And that's the difference in me and you.