Avery.

[Five-ofan]

Is avery coaching for his job next year? I know this seems like a bit of an overreaction but he has gotten utterly killed coaching in each of the series weve lost over the last 3 years. Nelly was thought of as a regular season coach but honestly isnt that what avery is too? His stubborn refusal to come up with any type of offense whatsoever is every bit as much to blame for us losing this series as dirks crappy play(and yes dirk did play crappy) Hes been here for 3 seasons and he still runs an offense that a 6th grade girls coach could run. I want to be clear, I dont think he should be run out of here, at least not yet. That said hes got to take ALOT of blame for these losses.

[birdsanctuary]

Avery should be done... Last year's finals and this year, clearly outcoached. Its one thing to be a master motivatior, but you've got to have the complete package. Phil Jackson as much as I hate his ass has the complete package. Seriously, Donnie Nelson has that potential, Larry Brown (had that potential), Chuck Daly, thats about it...

Mavs are done history will look back on the Mavs and show two potential championships gone early in Dirk's career because of Cuban. Cubes letting Nash go and not able to play nice with Nellie. Nellie's clearly a better playoffs coach then Avery and you are a fool to try to argue against this. Avery simply inherited the best team in the NBA. The Mavs were clearly the best team in the NBA last year and I believe they were this year. Would have been back to back champs. And you are a complete idiot to deny this.

[nashtymavsfan13]

Rick Carlisle?

[globemaster]

Yes Avery deserves more blame than anyone else in my opinion. His decision to go exclusively with Diop allowed GState to double Dirk without penalty and he stuck with it through the entire series. He should have went with Damp and it probably cost us the series or at least games 1 and 4. I'm not defending Dirk who I think has one more year before we give up on him, but I think Avery coached worse than Dirk played if people can actually believe that.

go mavs

[Tokey41]

He needs help, he doesn't know how to adapt game to game in a series and make adjustments from his original plan it seems (at least successfully). We'll see how things go next year since we all know playoff basketball is different from regular season basketball but his coaching is certainly a large part in losing this series. Thats not to say the Warriors were an easy team to adjust to in the first place but thats not excuse for a COTY canidate.

[JamesVE]

I dont think up until now Nellie was/is considered a better playoff coach. Keep in mind, up until the revival of the run and gun NBA, he was always viewed as quirky and gimmicky, with a style that wouldnt win in the playoffs. He always seemed to be the coach people would smirk about..

Now that the NBA has evolved to his beloved style, and he's got a team full of terrific athletes (which he did NOT have here), he's looking like a genius.

Makes you wonder what would have happened if we'd all known while he was still here that small ball would become the trend in the NBA. Of course, I think Nash going to Phoenix has alot to do with more teams going small ball. And if Nash had ended up staying, maybe run and gun wouldnt have become the trend..

[Tokey41]

Originally Posted by nashtymavsfan13

Rick Carlisle?

I wish... but we can't give up on Avery that quickly.

[freestyle]

Props to Avery in regards to motivation, but Nellie's has made a career out of mystifying other coaches. Nellie usually succeeds in making others teams react to his decisions rather than imposing their will on his team.

[chumdawg]

In retrospect, it might have worked very well if AJ had stayed here in the role of assistant coach and Cuban had kept his nose out of things. As innovative as Nelson is, he probably would have made it into a co-coach sort of situation, and Johnson could have honed his chops while at the same time we still had the experience and knowledge we needed.

I would have liked our chances if we had kept the big three together, graduated AJ into a very high-level assistant coach, and tweaked the rest of the roster to add more athleticism. Oh, and if Cuban had kept being willing to spend.

But of course, that's all hindsight. As for the present, we really probably need an offensive coordinator, so to speak, to go with the defensive coordinator Harris. This would let us take advantage of AJ's fiery personality and leadership skills, while saving our offense from ineptitude.

[dude1394]

If avery had stayed assistant coach we wouldn't have had a coach. The head coach was out playing golf most of the time.

[destroy ALL]

Avery should not be worring about his job. His first full year took the mavs to the finals, not to mention he won coach of the year. His second year brought the mavs 67 wins. He's brought the Mavs to new heights with a toughness and defense. Although this year was very disappointing, the expectation level was just set wayyyy too high coming off the finals appearance last year. Next year will be only avery's 3rd full year and now there are already some people that want to give him the boot? Give me a break. Avery is doing a outstanding job with this team.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

In retrospect, it might have worked very well if AJ had stayed here in the role of assistant coach and Cuban had kept his nose out of things. As innovative as Nelson is, he probably would have made it into a co-coach sort of situation, and Johnson could have honed his chops while at the same time we still had the experience and knowledge we needed.

I would have liked our chances if we had kept the big three together, graduated AJ into a very high-level assistant coach, and tweaked the rest of the roster to add more athleticism. Oh, and if Cuban had kept being willing to spend.

But of course, that's all hindsight. As for the present, we really probably need an offensive coordinator, so to speak, to go with the defensive coordinator Harris. This would let us take advantage of AJ's fiery personality and leadership skills, while saving our offense from ineptitude.

You know who's choice it was to make Avery a head coach so soon?

Nellie's.

[dude1394]

Like I said I'm not going to knee-jerk about avery losing his job but it is a fact that giving away game 1 was a screw-up of epic porportions in retrospect. We couldn't win a game out there obviously but giving away the first one really put us in that hole.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

You know who's choice it was to make Avery a head coach so soon?

Nellie's.

Surely you recognize that Nellie didn't draw it up that way, right?

[The Crippler]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Surely you recognize that Nellie didn't draw it up that way, right?

Surely you recognize that Nellie quit on the team instead of facing adversity, right?

To answer the question, Avery deserves as much blame as anyone, but his job does not hang in the balance...yet.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Surely you recognize that Nellie didn't draw it up that way, right?

Well you know what? Sometimes coaches don't get the exact players they want. Sometimes the front office has to make a decision that goes against what the coach wants.

And if that happening absolves that coach from any and all blame from that point forward in your eyes, so be it.

The bottom line is Nellie quit on this team, but he was too cheap to out and out quit. If that's ok with you, so be it.

Look if Cuban had fired Nellie, or in some way forced him out, I could understand this argument.

But Don Nelson acted like a freaking child after Nash left this team, and he quit on my Mavericks.

So yeah, I'm sure he didn't draw it up that way, but then, none of us did, because we didn't realize just how sorry Nelson was.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well you know what? Sometimes coaches don't get the exact players they want. Sometimes the front office has to make a decision that goes against what the coach wants.

Cite me some examples that mirror the Nash situation. From my point of view, it was pretty much unprecedented.

Look if Cuban had fired Nellie, or in some way forced him out, I could understand this argument.

"In some way forced him out" is exactly what happened.

So yeah, I'm sure he didn't draw it up that way, but then, none of us did, because we didn't realize just how sorry Nelson was.

Just how sorry he was, eh? Ask Dirk, Nash, and Finley what they think of Don Nelson.

Or, you could listen to Cuban.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Cite me some examples that mirror the Nash situation. From my point of view, it was pretty much unprecedented.

"In some way forced him out" is exactly what happened.

Just how sorry he was, eh? Ask Dirk, Nash, and Finley what they think of Don Nelson.

Or, you could listen to Cuban.

Fine. There's no point getting into this. We disagree on foundational beliefs that neither of us can back up with any kind of facts.

[chumdawg]

I think it's pretty much a fact that you would have to look awfully long and hard to find another situation where an owner made such a horrible personnel decision and in doing so cut one leg out from under his coaching staff.

The rest is conjecture, but I think that part is pretty well fact.

[Mavfreak]

Nellie gave up on the team when Nash hit the pavement. Nash was his secret weapon and he knew the team would win when Nash and Dirk reached their potential. Cuban gave up too soon on the tandem. That broke Nellies heart. After the trade Nellie did not give a poop about coaching the team and did not last long after that. Nellie does not coach the players all that much, he just finds great players and lets them have at it. The Warriors look a lot like the Nash era Mavericks. The results will be similar. If Avery had a Nashesque guard I believe he could lead the team to a championship.

[diop it like its hot]

Here's the conspiracy. While Nellie's still coaching the team he and Cuban reach a point where they want to kill each other, mainly because Cuban lets Nash walk. Nellie dosent want to leave his players but feels forced because of Cuban. Instead of making a scene he devises a plan.

Hype everyone up about AJ and convince everyone that AJ is everything this team needs to get to the next level. A sharp young coach with a passion to win. Then walk away from the spotlight but continue to influence and direct the team.
Keep an ear to the organization and know which direction the are heading. Know the teams weaknesses. Know how it's star player thinks.

Return to coaching under the radar. Build a team out of nowhere designed to take advantage of every weakness the Mavs struggle with.

Destroy that team in the palyoffs.

Get the last laugh on Cuban.

Poor AJ was just used as a pawn. He's still an ok coach but not nearly as good as I thought he was.

[diop it like its hot]

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

Give me a break. Avery is doing a outstanding job with this team.

Hold that down man. Lets be realists about this.

[Allie]

Originally Posted by destroy ALL

Avery should not be worring about his job. His first full year took the mavs to the finals, not to mention he won coach of the year. His second year brought the mavs 67 wins. He's brought the Mavs to new heights with a toughness and defense. Although this year was very disappointing, the expectation level was just set wayyyy too high coming off the finals appearance last year. Next year will be only avery's 3rd full year and now there are already some people that want to give him the boot? Give me a break. Avery is doing a outstanding job with this team.

I agree!

who in their right mind wants Avery to go to another team and take them to the championship?

[Darth Ape]

Originally Posted by freestyle

Props to Avery in regards to motivation, but Nellie's has made a career out of mystifying other coaches. Nellie usually succeeds in making others teams react to his decisions rather than imposing their will on his team.

Props to Avery in regards to motivation? Are you nuts? This team wasn't ready to play. Motivation is the Mavs biggest concern! This team is losing faith in Avery. Things are probably going to get a lot worse in Dallas before they get better.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

Props to Avery in regards to motivation? Are you nuts? This team wasn't ready to play. Motivation is the Mavs biggest concern! This team is losing faith in Avery. Things are probably going to get a lot worse in Dallas before they get better.

We will all look forward to you pointing it out to us. Saying nothing good during 17 in a row win streaks but like a rotten apple coming to spoil the rest of them and gloat whenever you can. Sheesh might as well be warriorfansincedayone.

[Darth Ape]

Originally Posted by dude1394

We will all look forward to you pointing it out to us. Saying nothing good during 17 in a row win streaks but like a rotten apple coming to spoil the rest of them and gloat whenever you can. Sheesh might as well be warriorfansincedayone.

Is this the land of candy canes and sugar plum trees? Are we only allowed to say positive things about the Mavs? "Rah rah rah" and all that?

Fine.

I think Austin Croshere and Jerry Stackhouse showed a lot of heart in the series. I think the Mavs should re-sign them.

[dude1394]

No darth, you can say bad things about the mavs, it would just come across better if that wasn't the ONLY thing you did. And that all of a sudden you are such a frequent poster now that you have a chance to rub something in.

During the season, and nothing from the 'ape.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by dude1394

No darth, you can say bad things about the mavs, it would just come across better if that wasn't the ONLY thing you did. And that all of a sudden you are such a frequent poster now that you have a chance to rub something in.

During the season, and nothing from the 'ape.

You had to know this was coming.

[Darth Ape]

Originally Posted by dude1394

No darth, you can say bad things about the mavs, it would just come across better if that wasn't the ONLY thing you did. And that all of a sudden you are such a frequent poster now that you have a chance to rub something in.

During the season, and nothing from the 'ape.

Well, like I said in the other thread. I took a lot of heat during the season for my opinions. You guys deserve a little shit talking.

Permit me to enjoy this victory.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

Well, like I said in the other thread. I took a lot of heat during the season for my opinions. You guys deserve a little shit talking.

Permit me to enjoy this victory.

Then don't go all holier-than-thou when someone gives you crap for it. It you want to talk crap then be prepared to get some back, not give me this inane..

"can't we say anything bad about the mavs here..yadda...yadda". You've been saying nothing GOOD about the mavs since dampier was signed. It was kinda funny because it was only against one guy and you were so over the top with it. I used to read it to my buddy because they were funny. Now it's just a general hatred of the team. Looks more trollish to me.

[Darth Ape]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Then don't go all holier-than-thou when someone gives you crap for it. It you want to talk crap then be prepared to get some back, not give me this inane..

"can't we say anything bad about the mavs here..yadda...yadda". You've been saying nothing GOOD about the mavs since dampier was signed. It was kinda funny because it was only against one guy and you were so over the top with it. I used to read it to my buddy because they were funny. Now it's just a general hatred of the team. Looks more trollish to me.

Hey, beleive me I can take it. The only thing I take offense to is you (and others) telling me to leave... as if this is your board or something. People frequent these sports forums for the sole purpose of shit talking. I'd think everyone would want a contrarian to make things interesting.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

Hey, beleive me I can take it. The only thing I take offense to is you (and others) telling me to leave... as if this is your board or something. People frequent these sports forums for the sole purpose of shit talking. I'd think everyone would want a contrarian to make things interesting.

I don't care if you leave or stay. But puh-leeze don't pull out that sad old "can't we say anything else here" junk out. This board is full of folks giving and getting..

I do admit you may get more grief than others, but that's because you deserve it. Your whole persona is over the top stuff, so don't be too surprised that you elicit heated responses.

Not to mention that you've been throwing out this stuff for two(maybe three, can't remember) years now.

[dude1394]

Hmmm....

http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/dal...360.xml&coll=1

In the end, Cuban claimed that "It was a lot more painful (to lose to Miami) last year than this year," which is undoubtedly (to use Churchill's term) a terminological inexactitude, so expressed because he didn't want to give Nelson the pleasure of knowing he just ripped his heart out. "I may not get along well with Nellie the person, and I may not have as much respect for him there. Nellie the coach, I have tremendous respect for. He's a phenomenal coach."

Oh, good that he brought that up, because this series was a coaching victory from start to finish.

And that means it was also a coaching defeat, with Avery Johnson the real author of this disaster.

He first blundered in the last two games of the regular season, sitting out his players on that Tuesday night against the same Warriors, which gave Golden State the victory and a playoff berth, for all intents. The next night, he played his guys against Seattle. Think the Lakers and Clippers noticed this? Basically, AJ's move helped his team draw the Warriors in the first round, which in retrospect, was like choosing your own method of defeat.

Then the games began, and the Mavs were woefully prepared to handle Golden State's zone -- no penetration, they didn't run cutters, they didn't flash Nowitzki to the middle, they didn't do anything but play a perimeter game against a smaller team. Wait, don't say it: It eludes you.

Advantage: Nellie. Again. And now we're left to wonder why Avery, a razor-sharp strategist, chose this time and place to forget what the average high school coach knows.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by Darth Ape

Well, like I said in the other thread. I took a lot of heat during the season for my opinions. You guys deserve a little shit talking.

Permit me to enjoy this victory.

you disappeared shortly after the 4 game losing streak was over. Wuss.

[Five-ofan]

Im the king of staying positive for the most part as long as it doesnt involve josh howard(i just hate his bball iq with a passion) Im not saying we should fire avery. not saying he should be in championship or get fired mode next season either. That said, i think it is a legit question. with avery as coach, you are basically guaranteeing yourself you will lose game 1. Thats not a good place to put yourself in. Also, i think avery may be running out of bullets. There are only so many times you can scream at people before they begin to tune you out and since he screams so much theres a fairly good chance his shelf life will be shorter than some coaches. Also, he has begun doing something i flat out hate for any coach to do. He has begun blaming his players despite the fact that every series the mavs have lost in the last 3 years has been directly attributable to him. Yes the players play and they do deserve blame(alot of it for some) but when youve been as pathetic in each of the series theyve lost over the last 3 years as he has, its bad to put the blame on the players.


Also for those of you that read the sports guy, read his criticisms of doc rivers through the last couple of years and tell me how exactly avery differs besides using his timeouts to stop runs more(something i think he screws up just as badly by going the other direction)

[jthig32]

This scares the hell out of me.

If Dell Harris were to leave this team, I would be scared to death to enter this next season as Avery as the head coach, without bringing in another high level assistant.