Low Post Threats

[dalmations202]

I just wanted to document some of the low post threats people think "could" help the Mavs next season, and why.

Tim Duncan -- no chance
Dwight Howard -- no chance
Chris Bosh -- no chance
Shaq -- not likely
Curry -- no assets they need/want
Kevin Garnett (although he really isn't about post-ups) -- can't see it in the conference
Amare Stoudamire(although he really isn't about post-ups) -- can't see it in the comference
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Elton Brand -- possibility but not probable
Carlos Boozer -- possibility but not probable.
Jermaine ONeal -- most likely option, if Dallas is willing to move a core player or two
Zack Randolf -- not sure Dallas has the right pieces for him- little D, not sure an Avery type
Marcus Camby -- not a true "double him in the post guy", but possible

Lamarcus Aldridge - young, hard to get, probably off limits
Shareef Abdur-Rahim -- no D, not a Avery type player
Chris Webber -- no D, too slow, weak post moves, a face up player.
Charlie Villanueva -- intriguing, but I haven't seen his game much.

Dalembert, Frye, Gadzuric, James, Haywood, Big Z, Collins, Miller, Rasho, Okur, Radmonivic all have post up games that no one doubles them.

I just don't really see many low post players out there that Dallas might have a shot at getting.

JO -- if Dallas would cut into core, and Indy wants what Dallas might offer.
Brand -- I don't think possible because the only way I see him leaving is for expiring
contracts. Dallas doesn't have may of those.
Boozer -- isn't really available at this time, IMO.
Camby -- Can't see Denver taking back what Dallas would need to offer.
Webber and Rahim -- make Dirk the best Defender back there, and that spells trouble.
Aldridge -- still on his rookie contract.

I see JO as the best idea, and Villanueva as the fall back.

Any other low post threats I have forgotten about, or thoughts about these?

[alexamenos]

corliss williamson, the big nasty -- he's a free agent, he was sixth man of the year just a few seasons ago, he's still tough inside, he's ancient, and he's probably still good for 15 minutes a game.

i know he was really good in one game v. SA, but I may have just coincidentally watched his best game all season.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

corliss williamson, the big nasty -- he's a free agent, he was sixth man of the year just a few seasons ago, he's still tough inside, he's ancient, and he's probably still good for 15 minutes a game.

i know he was really good in one game v. SA, but I may have just coincidentally watched his best game all season.

I have one problem with Corliss. Height: 6-7 (that is being generous)

That makes Dirk the primary on D again, and that is not a good role for him.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

I have one problem with Corliss. Height: 6-7 (that is being generous)

That makes Dirk the primary on D again, and that is not a good role for him.

yeah -- i'm not saying corliss could be a primary kind of guy, just a guy to spell dirk for some minutes and give a change of pace. iow, he wouldn't be a terrible pickup at < MLE.

[DelNegro]

Corliss wouldn't be a bad pickup for you guys. He is undersized and can't do squat against anyone taller than him, but if you can get him in the right matchup against someone his size he'll get you a bunch of high percentage shots. You can't look for him to do much with Duncan or KG, but he'd have come in handy against Golden State.

Jamal Magloire's another name to toss out there. Free agent.

[bcrav4]

There is also:

--Upper Tier
Al Jefferson
Kwame Brown
Emeka Okafor
Josh Smith
David West
Tyson Chandler
Chris Kaman

--Lower Tier
David Harrison
Chris Mihm
Brad Miller
Joel Pryzbilla
Ike Diogu
Drew Gooden
Josh Powell
Michael Sweetney

[mkat]

we don't really need a big name post player. just someone who can give you about 10-15 points a night down low. look...we beat SA and PHX in the playoffs last year playing without a true low post. the warriors are an anomaly, and if we had a reliable guy under there, we probably would've won that series. you don't adjust your whole style to beat one team that may not even make the playoffs next year.

[SeriousSummer]

It doesn't have to be a center or power forward either--small forwards (Aguirre-type) and guards (Bonzi Wells-type) with a post up game might be good enough.

We don't need someone in the post that always forces a double team. We just need someone that makes double teaming Dirk difficult.

[SeriousSummer]

Sweetney is a free agent--if he got in decent shape, I think he might be a role player. I think he could be signed for the LLE or part of the MLE.

[alexamenos]

Originally Posted by DelNegro

Corliss wouldn't be a bad pickup for you guys. He is undersized and can't do squat against anyone taller than him, but if you can get him in the right matchup against someone his size he'll get you a bunch of high percentage shots. You can't look for him to do much with Duncan or KG, but he'd have come in handy against Golden State.

that was my thinking -- not a guy to break down the best d's, but just a guy to make teams with no interior defense pay for having no interior defense.

ps -- i love Al Jefferson -- unheralded stud.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by bcrav4

There is also:

--Upper Tier
Al Jefferson -- will be matched with Bostons new pick and PPierce
Kwame Brown -- I would put him in lower tier
Emeka Okafor -- much like Dwight Howard
Josh Smith -- unknown by me
David West -- unknown by me
Tyson Chandler -- descent defense, but would you double team him on the block?
Chris Kaman -- defense a little weak, but good O. Kind of a Damp with strength on O instead of strength on D.

--Lower Tier
David Harrison - unknown by me
Chris Mihm - injuries have hurt him
Brad Miller - weak D, too slow, his post moves are weaker than Dirk's
Joel Pryzbilla - unknown by me
Ike Diogu -- the reason that Indy might move Jermain ONeal, if they expect him to develop
Drew Gooden -- not sure he would be an upgrade to Damp for post moves.
Josh Powell -- too short
Michael Sweetney -- too slow, seems to have a lack of motivation

Nice list. I added my thoughts to the list above.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by SeriousSummer

It doesn't have to be a center or power forward either--small forwards (Aguirre-type) and guards (Bonzi Wells-type) with a post up game might be good enough.

We don't need someone in the post that always forces a double team. We just need someone that makes double teaming Dirk difficult.

bingo --- but I would still like it to be a frontcourt player if at all possible, although it wouldn't have to be mandatory.

[jacktruth]

Anytime we get a new member on this board and they start opening threads like crazy and talking out of thier rear, I consider them a low post threat.

But seriously, I don't think Dirk is nearly the liability on the post that most seem to think. He does just fine down there and his ability to drag low-post defenders out to the high post or perimeter is priceless. There isn't enough room/shots to have a mid-to-high quality low post threat AND Dirk. The only reason people are talking so much about it is that a low-post threat can kill a zone, and that's what GS did.

But what else kills a zone? Good perimeter shooting, good perimeter defense.

[Stranger]

Originally Posted by alexamenos

corliss williamson, the big nasty -- he's a free agent, he was sixth man of the year just a few seasons ago, he's still tough inside, he's ancient, and he's probably still good for 15 minutes a game.

i know he was really good in one game v. SA, but I may have just coincidentally watched his best game all season.

I think Corliss would be an excellent signing at the LLE or veteran minimum if we get some other needs taken care of first.

[bernardos70]

Kaman is a free agent?

Have you guys seen Ike Diogu play? I don't know if it was the one game I watched him in, but he was great. And he's young. Maybe he's a jewel in the rough. He's 6'8" but he's 255lb and has a 7'4" wingspan:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ike_diogu/index.html

[bcrav4]

Kaman is not a free agent, but LAC is sort of down on him right now, and he could be traded.

Diogu is probably not available, as Indi just traded for him during this season.

Okafor may be available if Charlotte gets Durant, as they also already have Sean May working in the low post.

[jacobmannjones]

Kwame Brown may the gamble taken by the Mavs. But that is dependant on how comfortable LAL are w/ the young kid in the middle...

[MavsWiLLHaVeRinGs]

Originally Posted by dalmations202

Curry -- no assets they need/want

Are you kidding me? we got the only thing the Knicks want baby. Shooting guards!

And how is Brand and Boozer both possibilities? We've got a -50% chance of landing either.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by mkat

we don't really need a big name post player. just someone who can give you about 10-15 points a night down low. look...we beat SA and PHX in the playoffs last year playing without a true low post. the warriors are an anomaly, and if we had a reliable guy under there, we probably would've won that series. you don't adjust your whole style to beat one team that may not even make the playoffs next year.

Sheesh man, 10-15 points a game is a big time post man.

[Dirkenstien]

I really like Curry. I think he is good enough to give us some serious low post production while bein decent defensively under Avery.

[The Crippler]

If only there was someone like Robert Parrish avaialble...

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by The Crippler

If only there was someone like Robert Parrish avaialble...

I'll second that one.

[MavsX]

OR BILL CARTWRIGHT

[Janett_Reno]

I agree Dalmations with your post again. This is where titles are won and it is hard to get these good low post players. Some of those guys mentioned can't be touched. O'Neil would be like a dream come true but Larry Bird is no fool. Guess what we got for Daniels, Powell, Marshall and the older defensive point guard we had from Bird? Anthony Johnson and Croshere. Larry Bird will try to bleed Dallas to death if you get Jermaine O'Neil but oh yes O'Neil s a great player. Just what all would we have to give up?

Corliss is like Fortson, to short and i have liked Corliss and he is physical and old but he has probs being to short inisde against these big guys in the playoffs. That Villanueva guy is good and i like his game. No way Okafor will ever be traded. This guy can dominate you. Other guys that could be a possibility is Kaman, Miller and Mihn. No none of these guys are great but we do not have to have great. Z is another possibility and we once was after Z but it would probably be a deal involving Dampier with Z.

I have mixed emotions with Miller and Mihm but Miller playing and not logging heavy, heavy mins he might be ok because he wants to always go outside and to much and shoot. He does have some offense and we need some offense at that position but he frustrates me at times not staying under the basket and rebounding and being a center but we do have Damp/Diop to be able to relieve Miller at anytime. At times i have thought Mihm was going to be pretty good and then he disappears and has injury. He is never consistent but i have seen some offense from him.

Kaman is solid and he plays alot like Dampier but with a lil more offense. The Clippers are frustrated because they have talent and did not make the playoffs. Will they move Kaman, Ross or Maggette or a combo?

Magloire is another one but really he is about defense and not offense. Zack Randolph is a hoss underneath and even with his size, it seems he can't be stopped. With any of the Portland players, it seems they have all been into it with management. I am not sure how they get along in the real world and Randolph is not a tall player.

Just remember, if we get a bench player, a bigger player that can give us some points in the painted area we will improve. This player doesn't have to be a star and he can rotate with Damp/Diop, if we still have both of them and let DJ go or if Damp/Diop is gone you have DJ in the rotation somewhere and three deep and one that can give you some points inside against certain teams.

PJ Brown is old but i like him. I would like to have him.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Janett_Reno

I have mixed emotions with Miller and Mihm but Miller playing and not logging heavy, heavy mins he might be ok because he wants to always go outside and to much and shoot. He does have some offense and we need some offense at that position but he frustrates me at times not staying under the basket and rebounding and being a center but we do have Damp/Diop to be able to relieve Miller at anytime. At times i have thought Mihm was going to be pretty good and then he disappears and has injury. He is never consistent but i have seen some offense from him.

Kaman is solid and he plays alot like Dampier but with a lil more offense. The Clippers are frustrated because they have talent and did not make the playoffs. Will they move Kaman, Ross or Maggette or a combo?

Magloire is another one but really he is about defense and not offense. Zack Randolph is a hoss underneath and even with his size, it seems he can't be stopped. With any of the Portland players, it seems they have all been into it with management. I am not sure how they get along in the real world and Randolph is not a tall player.

Just remember, if we get a bench player, a bigger player that can give us some points in the painted area we will improve. This player doesn't have to be a star and he can rotate with Damp/Diop, if we still have both of them and let DJ go or if Damp/Diop is gone you have DJ in the rotation somewhere and three deep and one that can give you some points inside against certain teams.

PJ Brown is old but i like him. I would like to have him.

I like Miller, but I just cannot see him in an Avery system being the last line of defense. This is what killed the Kings, and kept them from winning it all. Miller is a good scoring center who will bang, but you need a highly athletic PF like Brand, or J ONeal playing beside him picking up the shot blocking. He can work well against Yao, Shaq, or Curry, which is why he was picked up to begin with, but he ends up lost and in foul trouble when more athletic teams start taking everything right at him.

Mihm, from what I have seen would be a great number 2 Center who can provide some offense, but like Miller, he needs a defensive minded, highly athletic PF beside him as well on the defensive end. He is another one that I think would end up playing beside Diop/Damp, and not instead of Diop/Damp on most nights.

I've said that Randolph doesn't play the D that is needed to start beside Dirk, so he would either end up the 6th man, or everyone would just take it at him and Dirk all night long. Either that or the normal line-up gets BIG and Dirk goes to the SF (which he has a hard time guarding).

Magloire -- now that is another option that I just haven't seen enough to know. I know he seems to be changing teams now, and doesn't seem to be happy or putting up numbers. If he is a defensive guy with some offensive skills, then maybe he would be good in Dallas. If he is an offensive guy with some defensive skills, then you hurt your D -- which is very un-Avery like. If he is mediocre at both, then is he an upgrade to Damp? I just haven't seen enough of him to know.

Kaman -- see Miller, but if they could get Kaman and Magette for Damp/Terry -- I'd go for it because I like Magette. I don't know how that one would work because Kaman is on the Poison Pill contract till July 1, when trading is opened up again. Also, the Clipper are historically cheap, and I don't see them taking on even a small amount higher of salary -- which is what would happen.

PJ Brown....... bring him on. I think he would work Great here. In fact, if you could get him for the MLE, and change nothing, he might be the right answer. He wouldn't have to start, but could be that threat inside against small ball teams. He plays good D, and can rebound well. He is one of the few players that Dallas might be able to get without having to break up the Dirk, Howard, Terry, Harris, Damp --- and still might be able to help the team, IMO. Maybe Avery and his NO background can convince PJ to play one more year before father time catches him.

[Janett_Reno]

I thought maybe the same thing on PJ Brown but he did well against Detroit. Chicago is saying WE MUST have some inside scorring. So again, they want what we want. PJ Brown was mad during the year because he said he wanted more mins and start. Him and the Bulls had a little round but if the Bulls do not get anyone, in which i feel they will, will they go after PJ hard? He is not happy just getting a few mins and even talked of retiring. So many teams need the same thing that i feel his services will go pretty high next year and he won't or can't afford to retire because of the money thrown at him by many teams and this is at 40 years old. He is good.

I like Kaman and Magette.

Magloire is great on defense. A shot blocker and rebounder and will score some if you get the ball into him but he is very good on the defensive end. This is a player Phx might go after also. I think he is from Canada and i believe Toronto want's him. He played college ball at KY and was a swatter and rebounder and he did score in college but defense was his game with long reach. He reminds me of a cheap mans Mourning but Mourning was good on offense and more so than Magloire.

I agree with you on Miller and he isn't a good last line of defense but he can play good with someone that works with him or a power forward that helps him.

Mihm might work good with Diop. Him and Diop banging boards but also Mihm scorring. I have seen Mihm do good and some nights not really show up. He has impressed me in games and was surprised.

As far as guards cheap, Steve Blake is a passer and ast man. Sam Cassell is old but so clutch and seems hard to stop, driving, shooting or passing if his health will hold out.

PJ Brown could go in at center or Dirks position when needed and he would end up getting lots of mins.

Where do you think Gasol and Garnett goes? I feel Chicago will get one and you know the Lakers will be fighting for either of them. Dallas might try to pull off some minor moves but would be major for us, in getting an inside scorring man like Brown and maybe a pure point guard like Blake just for ast or someone like that. If they can't pull off someone cheap and pretty good then we might make a big move or bigger move with a trade.

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by Janet_Reno

Where do you think Gasol and Garnett goes? I feel Chicago will get one and you know the Lakers will be fighting for either of them. Dallas might try to pull off some minor moves but would be major for us, in getting an inside scorring man like Brown and maybe a pure point guard like Blake just for ast or someone like that. If they can't pull off someone cheap and pretty good then we might make a big move or bigger move with a trade.

Gasol and Garnett's future all depends on how the ping pong ball lands.

For instance, if Memphis ends up with the second pick, I am guessing that they keep Gasol and pair him with Durant. If Minn gets the #1 then Garnett probably ends up in either Phoenix (Marion and a couple of #1's) or an Eastern team with a high pick. These two could either stay put, or end up somewhere else, all depending on who ends up with Oden and Durant. Dallas, IMO, has no shot at either of these two NBA players or the two top draft picks. Boston would love to pair Jefferson with Oden, but might make a move of Pierce if Durant is the option.

It gets interesting based on the drop of the ball. LA would love to have KG to pair with Kobe, but I don't see the match of talent.

If Phoenix calls and offers all three 1st and Marion/Filler for KG... I can't see Minn not doing it. Then Phoenix would send out a lineup of Nash, Bell, Diaw, KG, Amare with Barbosa still there. Minn (if they get the first pick) would have Oden, Marion, and three other first rounders to develop. That would be the way to rebuild in a hurry.

Who knows, it all depends on that little ball.

[DubOverdose]

Rasheed Wallace could be available if the Pistons don't win this year and Billups signs elsewhere. He'd be a very solid pickup. He's got the attitude, post play, experience, defense, etc. that we need.

[DubOverdose]

BTW- a trade that works salary wise and is pretty fair talent wise (including age as a factor)

OUT:
JET
Buckner

IN:
Rasheed Wallace

[MascisMan]

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

BTW- a trade that works salary wise and is pretty fair talent wise (including age as a factor)

OUT:
JET
Buckner

IN:
Rasheed Wallace

Would Detroit do that since they have Billups and Rip?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

BTW- a trade that works salary wise and is pretty fair talent wise (including age as a factor)

OUT:
JET
Buckner

IN:
Rasheed Wallace

Big for Small almost never works

[DubOverdose]

Originally Posted by MascisMan

Would Detroit do that since they have Billups and Rip?

It would only have a chance of happening if Billups left and the pistons were forced to retool.

[BigD41]

Magloire is a free agent for Portland and won't command much money...maybe the MLE. He has the ability to post up and score on the block, especially against undersized teams like GS that try to run us. He is also a good rebounder and shot blocker. His game is a little under rated. He is better than Damp, especially on offense.
If we were able to sign Magloire, that might free the Mavs up to actually trade Damp if they can find any takers on his contract. Memphis always loved him, but they don't have much to offer in trade.

[V2M]

^ Wow... another good first post today!

Welcome BigD41. First post in nearly 3 years... now wassup' with dat?

[dalmations202]

Originally Posted by BigD41

Magloire is a free agent for Portland and won't command much money...maybe the MLE. He has the ability to post up and score on the block, especially against undersized teams like GS that try to run us. He is also a good rebounder and shot blocker. His game is a little under rated. He is better than Damp, especially on offense.
If we were able to sign Magloire, that might free the Mavs up to actually trade Damp if they can find any takers on his contract. Memphis always loved him, but they don't have much to offer in trade.

I expect Magloire to sign for the MLE in Toronto. They may not want him, but that would be the expectation I would have.

Toronto has Bargnani, Bosh, and Nesterovic.

My only concern is that Magloire might not be quick enough. Big, Slow centers are seeming to leave the league quickly right now.

Yao, Shaq, Big Z, and ??? are dominating big centers? Seems like all the rest are more athletic types.

[MascisMan]

Originally Posted by BigD41

Magloire is a free agent for Portland and won't command much money...maybe the MLE. He has the ability to post up and score on the block, especially against undersized teams like GS that try to run us. He is also a good rebounder and shot blocker. His game is a little under rated. He is better than Damp, especially on offense.
If we were able to sign Magloire, that might free the Mavs up to actually trade Damp if they can find any takers on his contract. Memphis always loved him, but they don't have much to offer in trade.

If we did go this route and tried trading Damp to Memphis, what would you guys think of getting Kyle Lowry as part of the deal? Hakim Warrick?

[BigD41]

Originally Posted by MascisMan

If we did go this route and tried trading Damp to Memphis, what would you guys think of getting Kyle Lowry as part of the deal? Hakim Warrick?

I'd say I'm all for anything that adds size and athleticism to the team!

[bcrav4]

One thing that is interesting to note is the success of 6'7 "tweener" power forwards this year. After watching Jason Maxiell last night tear up Cleveland, and Paul Millsap tear up Golden State, I'm convinced that the Mavs could definitely use an undersized power player who may not be that athletic. We need some hustle players, because hustle players are definitely not afraid to mix it up.

[alby]

like viva najera?

[BigD41]

Originally Posted by V2M

^ Wow... another good first post today!

Welcome BigD41. First post in nearly 3 years... now wassup' with dat?

sorry...don't hit the boards alot, and when I do I usually just come and read them. Its a good place to find links to info about the Mavs and see what real Mavs fans think about what is going on. I've just been thinking about the fact that we could get Magloire with the MLE alot and I hadn't seen much talk about it, so I thought I'd throw it out there.