JVG on the Mavs

[endrity]

Former coach and current analyst Jeff Van Gundy was on ESPN radio today, and the podcast of the interview can be found on ESPN's Daily Dime. The interview was mostly about the Shaq trade, but then it switched to the other teams in the West and what are they doing. The Mavs were the most important to come up because of the Kidd rumors.
However JVG said some very intersting things:

1) He was the first national "media guy" who said that the Mavs biggest weakness is the 2 position, not neccessarily the PG.

2) The defense has fallen off, considerably.
*I agree with this. I wasn't that worried until recently because I thought eventually we would pick it but if this kind of defense goes an after the All Star break I will not feel really good about our chances.

3) He said the Mavs have been one of the dominant rebounding teams in the league in recent years, and they are not that anymore. They have to improve there as well.

Number 3 is especially important, because it was one of our most overlooked aspects for success. In 06 we outrebounded opponents every single game during the West playoffs. Only the Heat took that away from us. It was interesting to see that when JVG mentioned the rebounding advantage Mike and Mike did not say a word, kind of like being surprised. In a lot of people's eyes these are still Nash's Mavs. Stephen A. said a couple of days ago that we are a run and gun team, while in fact we have te 2nd slowest pace in the league now.

Anyway, I think the dropoff in defense and rebounding has a lot to do with the rotations, and more specific the SmallBall formation. The refusal of Avery to put Diop in the game is baffling right now. Insisting with Dirk and Bass as 4 and 5 is just wrong. In the buck game, our lane became a layup highway when we did that. Bass is really good, but he can get his minutes when Dirk is resting (which he should do more often) or on a big lineup with Damp/Diop, Dirk, and Josh as 2. Him and Dirk are versatile enough to play the 3 and the 4. We have to get Diop back, he is absolutely critical to us. And we also have to make sure, he wants to be here next year. Yes we rehabilitated his career, but that doesn't mean he sings again with us in the summer.

[Bookit]

I agree. The defense is much better with Diop in the game. He rebounds well and his free throws aren't horrible anymore. His hands are pretty good and seems to finish around the basket a little better than he used to. I just don't get it. Avery is sacrificing defense for offense with Bass??? Is Avery a defensive coach or not?

Diop is much more effective than Damp too imo. Damp gets defensive boards but Diop gets huge tapbacks and offensive boards at critical times. I just don't get it.

[endrity]

I am not sure about Diop over Damp. Damp is still a better defender, rebounder, and sets much better pick. And while Diop has better hands, he doesn't seem interested at all on offense. Damp at least will throw down some dunks once in a while.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Van Gundy goes "Hoo-hoo" in the middle of the night.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Bookit

I agree. The defense is much better with Diop in the game. He rebounds well and his free throws aren't horrible anymore. His hands are pretty good and seems to finish around the basket a little better than he used to. I just don't get it. Avery is sacrificing defense for offense with Bass??? Is Avery a defensive coach or not?

Diop is much more effective than Damp too imo. Damp gets defensive boards but Diop gets huge tapbacks and offensive boards at critical times. I just don't get it.

Umm, Damp has been one of the best offensive rebounders in basketball for years

[jacktruth]

I've always been pretty supportive of Avery as a coach and I still am. But he does not adjust to players very well. If you give Pop and Jackson a handful of scrubs, they will win some games and they will get the best out of those scrubs. They won't just bench them.

But, there aren't many Pops and Jacksons around.

One thing the Mavs should consider is the great player approach. If you have a lot of great players in your starting lineup, you are much better than having a bench full of better-than-average players. When the playoffs start, you have 2 and 3 days between games, so you can burn your starters more.

I think that is the fatal flaw in this team. Not that they can't still win. They can, but if they don't take it all this year, they need to make some deals to getter fewer good players and more great players.

[Bookit]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Umm, Damp has been one of the best offensive rebounders in basketball for years

Umm, Damp's offensive rebounds are Moses Molone types where he has been stuffed or stripped the first time. Every time Damp has been injured and Diop has played meaningful minutes Diop has played great and the defense has been better. Damp is too slow. Damp's occasional throwdown is the same as Diop's lazy layup on the scoreboard. I don't hate Damp, I just think that the team does better with Diop.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Bookit

Umm, Damp's offensive rebounds are Moses Molone types where he has been stuffed or stripped the first time. Every time Damp has been injured and Diop has played meaningful minutes Diop has played great and the defense has been better. Damp is too slow. Damp's occasional throwdown is the same as Diop's lazy layup on the scoreboard. I don't hate Damp, I just think that the team does better with Diop.

Well, imo, and most everyone else's, you're nuts.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, imo, and most everyone else's, you're nuts.

I wouldn't speak for everyone. Damp is becoming severly overrated around here.

[jacktruth]

Diop's problems are primarily on offense, not defense. He sets lousy picks and doesn't know where to be. He clogs the offense for the other players.

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by jacktruth

I've always been pretty supportive of Avery as a coach and I still am. But he does not adjust to players very well. If you give Pop and Jackson a handful of scrubs, they will win some games and they will get the best out of those scrubs. They won't just bench them.

not just to be contrarian, but JJB, Bass, and Diop are all pretty scrubby. JJB and Bass have pretty big roles on the team now, and are performing great in those roles. I don't know that Pop got more from Beno Udrih than Avery gets from JJB. Just a few months ago, Diop was everyone's story for how Avery can get so much more out of a scrub player than other coaches.

[Bookit]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Well, imo, and most everyone else's, you're nuts.

I might be nuts, but not about this. This thread is about defense. Damp just hasn't been getting it done. Diop is better.

[Bathouse Bear]

I don't hate Damp, I just think that the team does better with Diop.

Not this year and last year.

[Underdog]

Damp & Diop are both great on defense - we need a 2 who can bring it on both ends of the court so we don't have to worry about the centers on offense...

We have a pretty good defense with Eddie, Hassell, or George on the floor, but then we only have 3 people on offense because our centers don't bring much down there either... So, we toss in Terry for some scoring, but then lose out on defense... (or else we throw Bass in & stop plugging up the middle with our centers...)

We need balance - we need a starter at the 2... (then let our centers do what they do best - stuff it & rebound...)

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I'd wouldn't mind giving up one of our defensive centers for a center who can score.

[Bookit]

Originally Posted by Bathouse Bear

Not this year and last year.

In your opinion.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I'd wouldn't mind giving up one of our defensive centers for a center who can score.

We have one - he's just 4 inches too short!





(actually, I've wanted Camby or JO here for a long time... But then again, I like who we have compared to most other teams in the league...)

[AxdemxO]

Originally Posted by Bookit

I might be nuts, but not about this. This thread is about defense. Damp just hasn't been getting it done. Diop is better.

Ur saying that Diop > Damp ???

Diop is good and should get more playin time...but tht statement is just dumb

[Bookit]

Originally Posted by AxdemxO

Ur saying that Diop > Damp ???

Diop is good and should get more playin time...but tht statement is just dumb

This thread is about how the Mavs defense is worse this year as opposed to last year and years past. Diop has played much less since Bass has come on to the scene and Damp just isn't getting it done imo. So yes, Diop > Diop defensive in my opinion.



but tht statement is just dumb



Very classy. Dale Carnegie has a book you should read.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I wouldn't speak for everyone. Damp is becoming severly overrated around here.

Good thing I didn't speak for everyone then.

Just most everyone, which is accurate.

[juckie]

Van Dumbdy hates the Mavs of course he isnt going to say anything positive.Like how Devon harris is developing in to a wonderful PG,or Dirks all around game has been so much better,or the fact that our defense comes to play when its a meaningful game.

[Underdog]

I'm gonna say that Damp is still better than Diop, but not by much (and Diop is never going to get any better sitting on the bench!)

Damp can hold his own against Shaq, Diop holds his own against Duncan - we have to play both of those guys...

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Bookit

Diop is much more effective than Damp too imo. Damp gets defensive boards but Diop gets huge tapbacks and offensive boards at critical times. I just don't get it.

I could not disagree more. Diop is an effective backup center, and I want him to play more, but no friggin way is he a better player in any way shape or form and than Damp.

[Bookit]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

but no friggin way is he a better player in any way shape or form and than Damp.

Again, this comparison was mostly for defense. I believe that Diop protects the basket better than Damp. Diop is also much quicker. Yes, Damp screams on offense when he gets a slam but he ain't that much better on offense either. So to say that Diop isn't better in "any way shape or form" must be for shock value. Diop is quicker, protects the hoop better through changing shots and opposing players just passing the ball back to the perimeter when they see Diop standing there. Agree to disagree.

Damp and Diop should split the minutes more evenly imo. Damp for guarding big guys and Diop for guarding more agile guys.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Bookit

So yes, Diop > Diop defensive in my opinion.

Yes, "tht" is dumb.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

I don't believe Diop is better than Damp. But they are the good combo center.

Damp is a great space eater and uses his body extremely well. Diop is extremely quick so he can defend quick players and/or swingmen on switches. Diop has more athleticism to get off the floor to protect the rim and block shots and make people not want to drive. Damp is an enforcer with his fouls that make people not want to drive.

(If they could score they would be the best center duo in the league.)

[endrity]

It's important they play both. They are the anchfor for our defense, and the main guys on the boards. They are both excellent rebounders, as Diop showed tonight against the Grizzlies. In order for our D and rebounding to get back to what it has been Avery has to play one of them, period. No more Smallball.

[BBJONES]

Originally Posted by endrity

It's important they play both. They are the anchfor for our defense, and the main guys on the boards. They are both excellent rebounders, as Diop showed tonight against the Grizzlies. In order for our D and rebounding to get back to what it has been Avery has to play one of them, period. No more Smallball.

Play both our centers..........call up Fazekas to back up Dirk.....Move Bass to backup SF, playing at least 24 minutes......Get JHo some minutes at SG.

Protect the basket........rebound..........shoot a high percentage.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by Bookit

Again, this comparison was mostly for defense. I believe that Diop protects the basket better than Damp. Diop is also much quicker. Yes, Damp screams on offense when he gets a slam but he ain't that much better on offense either. So to say that Diop isn't better in "any way shape or form" must be for shock value. Diop is quicker, protects the hoop better through changing shots and opposing players just passing the ball back to the perimeter when they see Diop standing there. Agree to disagree.

Damp and Diop should split the minutes more evenly imo. Damp for guarding big guys and Diop for guarding more agile guys.

You're right. We'll have to agree to disagree, because I think Diop is just too thin and not strong enough to protect the way Dampier does. He gets pushed around too much.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

You're right. We'll have to agree to disagree, because I think Diop is just too thin and not strong enough to protect the way Dampier does. He gets pushed around too much.

Isn't that weird, because he outweighs damp by about 15 pounds. Not enough muscle I don't think.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by dude1394

Isn't that weird, because he outweighs damp by about 15 pounds. Not enough muscle I don't think.

Honestly I don't think that listing is accurate. Those are often incorrect. I know Iverson is incorrectly listed at 6'0. No way that guy is taller than 5'10.

[Thespiralgoeson]

*double post*

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Well after the game against memphis, not sure if I believe Damp is really much better.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well after the game against memphis, not sure if I believe Damp is really much better.

Damp dominates Memphis too, even when they had Gasol. Check the last box score from 2 weeks ago.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Well after the game against memphis, not sure if I believe Damp is really much better.

As far as their interior defense is concerned, they're pretty comparable, but I would give Damp the edge. Damp is without question a better rebounder, and is probably the best in the league at setting screens whereas Diop's screens are very sloppy. And without looking up any numbers, I would wager Damp is less turnover prone.

[BGMaverick9]

Both of them are necessary. Damp sets the picks better and can get the boards and muscle guys out. Diop has more athleticism and works well as an off the ball defender.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

Both of them are necessary. Damp sets the picks better and can get the boards and muscle guys out. Diop has more athleticism and works well as an off the ball defender.

No question. Whether you like Diop better or Damp better, I think we can all agree that Bass shouldn't be playing center.

[G-Man]

Originally Posted by Thespiralgoeson

No question. Whether you like Diop better or Damp better, I think we can all agree that Bass shouldn't be playing center.

If you don't understand why Bass is playing more and Diop less, let me break it down for you. This is really very simple.

Remember, Bass is a Virual Rookie. He got only garbage minutes in his 2 years in New Orleans. He needs every minute he can get to learn the NBA and learn the people he has to play against. Diop doesn't need minutes. It is very impressive that whenever he plays, he performs. So I'm okay with him sitting while Bass learns. In the playoffs, there will be end of game situations where we will need him in there as a threat to score. The only time he can learn to do that is now, during the regular season. So Bass gets a lot of minutes in situations where he is not the best guy. But he will never get a clue of how to defend Duncan, or fight for offensive rebounds sitting on his ass watching Diop do it.

Avery has the option to play Bass less and Diop more, and win a few more games. That, my friends, was last year's approach. And when it got down to nut cutting time, the offense was too one dimensional. With Bass in the game, there is no more dropping centers down to double team Dirk. I wish he was taller. Heck, I wish he was Camby, but he's not. For him to be the best Bass he can be, he needs to keep playing.

The NBA has changed so much, I don't think teams can get it done with an 8 man rotation anymore. To get to the finals, we might have to go through Golden State, with only skinny, quick bigs, then LA with 2 scoring 7 footers, one whom is good from outside. After that could come a bunch of powerful inside bigs: PHX with Shaq and Amare, or SA with Timmy. In those varying senarios, I can see some games where any one of our centers plays a lot, or any one of them plays a little.

And those of you who think we would have beaten GS if Damp had started game 1 are living in a fantasy land. All of Nellie's centers shoot 3's very well. Ever seen Damp defend a 3 point shooter? Ever seen him do it well? That's why Bass is playing and Diop is sitting. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. April was not that long ago.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Originally Posted by G-Man

If you don't understand why Bass is playing more and Diop less, let me break it down for you. This is really very simple.

Remember, Bass is a Virual Rookie. He got only garbage minutes in his 2 years in New Orleans. He needs every minute he can get to learn the NBA and learn the people he has to play against. Diop doesn't need minutes. It is very impressive that whenever he plays, he performs. So I'm okay with him sitting while Bass learns. In the playoffs, there will be end of game situations where we will need him in there as a threat to score. The only time he can learn to do that is now, during the regular season. So Bass gets a lot of minutes in situations where he is not the best guy. But he will never get a clue of how to defend Duncan, or fight for offensive rebounds sitting on his ass watching Diop do it.

Bass will never ever ever ever ever be able to guard guys like Duncan. EVER! He's just too small.

Avery has the option to play Bass less and Diop more, and win a few more games. That, my friends, was last year's approach. And when it got down to nut cutting time, the offense was too one dimensional. With Bass in the game, there is no more dropping centers down to double team Dirk. I wish he was taller. Heck, I wish he was Camby, but he's not. For him to be the best Bass he can be, he needs to keep playing.

The NBA has changed so much, I don't think teams can get it done with an 8 man rotation anymore. To get to the finals, we might have to go through Golden State, with only skinny, quick bigs, then LA with 2 scoring 7 footers, one whom is good from outside. After that could come a bunch of powerful inside bigs: PHX with Shaq and Amare, or SA with Timmy. In those varying senarios, I can see some games where any one of our centers plays a lot, or any one of them plays a little.

And those of you who think we would have beaten GS if Damp had started game 1 are living in a fantasy land. All of Nellie's centers shoot 3's very well. Ever seen Damp defend a 3 point shooter? Ever seen him do it well? That's why Bass is playing and Diop is sitting. I don't see why this is so difficult to understand. April was not that long ago.

If the offense was that much better with Bass in the game I'd agree. But it's really not. At this point all you're doing is sacrifing rebounds and interior defense. It's one thing to put Bass out there at center against Golden State. It's something entirely different to do so against New Orleans or any other team with a real center.

Suffice it to say that I think playing Bass at center so much is the main reason our defense and rebounding has fallen off from last season. It's just goddamn hard to protect the paint and crash the boards when you don't have a center in the game and the other team does. And it has cost us games this season. And fine, yeah, what's a few regular season games, right? But if it costs us a playoffs series, there will be no excuse.

Now if you're giving me the same old "it's only February" shtick, that can only work for so long. If you're saying Bass needs minutes, then I agree. He even needs some minutes at center... but not many at all. I'd say no more than 3-5 minutes or so at center per game. The dude should be playing the bulk of his minutes at 4, or at 3 alongside Dirk and Damp.

[dude1394]

My buddy also thinks that bass is playing now insteaod of diop to get him ready. However if I'm diop I'm one unhappy dude, because avery is taking dollars out of his pocket, that's for sure.

If this is the case and I'm not in on it, if I'm diop I'm walking next year.

At first I thought it was, now I do not. I think Avery believes this is his best rotation. We'll see after the all-star break but it's too close and there have been way too many DNPs for this to just be getting bass minutes imo.