What Jim Reeves said about Avery......

[dude1394]

I'm not sure I've ever seen a coach burn bridges quite as effectively as Avery has done here. It's almost like watching a train-wreck.

I've read that some folks felt that winning the ko'ach of the year went completely to his head. It might be that his normal personality came out after getting much more confident in his position and the stress of bad results got to him. As he came under more and more stress he didn't change so much as go back to normal stuff.
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/...ves/index.html

The Anti-Avery -- or as some wit noted, "Ivory" Johnson -- showed up in Dallas on Wednesday to officially become the Mavericks' new head coach.

Rick Carlisle had heard all the critics of course, those who insisted he's simply a lighter version of the old head coach, and so being a smart guy, his first mission was to prove that that, among other things, just wasn't true.

Boring? Why, he partied at the House of Blues with Cubes and Little Nellie, didn't he?

No personality? He joked and traded witticisms with the assembled media, treating reporters like long-lost friends.

Rigid in his coaching philosophy? Shoot, give him a point guard like Jason Kidd and his team will run like the wind.

Yes, Carlisle is indeed a smart guy, because he certainly said all the right things on every subject. Truth be told, those who know him say he's a very likable guy.

So, I would like to remind you, was his predecessor.

It has become trendy to trash Avery Johnson now that he's left town, and honestly, Avery brought much of that upon himself with his self-serving farewell news conference in which he made sure we understood that he did everything right and that whatever failures the Mavs had were the fault of players who just weren't good enough.

That was a shame, because that wasn't Avery when he first arrived in Dallas. Not the Avery we knew as Big Nellie's assistant coach. Not the Avery we knew when he first took over the job.

That Avery didn't think he already knew everything about coaching an NBA team. That Avery didn't hint, at every opportunity, that he might have been the best point guard in NBA history, when in fact he'd been a nice little role player. That Avery wasn't as full of himself as the Avery who left Dallas, blaming everyone but himself.

But failure, whether Avery believes it was his fault or not, has a way of humbling people. Avery is also a smart guy and a darn good basketball coach. Fact is, while he was here, he was the best professional coach in Fort Worth-Dallas, hands down.

But now it's Avery's turn to show that, like Carlisle, he can learn from his mistakes.

The first step, of course, will be to look in the mirror and admit that he made some.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

God Dang, I hate Avery but can we put all the "what yo momma says about Avery" in one thread? Plus it makes it easier to compare what all the writers think.

[sike]

"The first step, of course, will be to look in the mirror and admit that he made some."

great line.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

God Dang, I hate Avery but can we put all the "what yo momma says about Avery" in one thread? Plus it makes it easier to compare what all the writers think.

You're just jealous because you've only posted 4 times in 4 days. Got to work harder man.

For what it's worth, I'm not a great fan of the "let's post everything about generic subject x here" method of message boards. I don't think it creates a very good back and forth between posters. It can clutter up the front page but so what imo.

Each of the "what they said" seem to have slightly different takes on the subject that can be explored more effectively if that point is the focus of the thread, not a generic thread with so many points that they get muddled.

[chumdawg]

I delight in seeing every new "what he said about Avery" thread. I just can't get enough of this stuff. It is so great to see how people react when they finally realize that they've been duped for the last several years by a charlatan and an asshole.

[DevinHarriswillstart]

I think we should try writing Avery stuff in the Around The NBA section since he isn't with the team anymore. That way we don't have to vomit at the sight of his name on every new thread when we want to talk Mavs.

EDIT: Especially since I don't see this thing dying down anytime soon as long as Avery keeps mouthing off.

[Robillion]

I for one actually just want to move on from the Avery era.... Im getting tired of hearing his name brought up over and over. I thought he would be out of my life entirely. Unfortunately not. My god I hope he is not in broadcast next year.. and if he is, I hope it is ESPN... I change the channel to KTXA/FSN each time it is anyway since I cant stand to hear Walton or JVG for that matter.

[dude1394]

If we weren't posting avery stuff, we wouldn't be posting anything.

Even you robillion have posted about 3 items in the mavs threads, most in response to who said's..

Nothing else to really talk about.

[Underdog]

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Awesome.

[chumdawg]

That's a great pic, UD!

Myself, I'm relishing the thought of Avery returning to the AAC as the coach of some spare team.

[sike]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If we weren't posting avery stuff, we wouldn't be posting anything.

Even you robillion have posted about 3 items in the mavs threads, most in response to who said's..

Nothing else to really talk about.

"Nothing else to talk about"???....we're talking Marvel comics in the lounge!!!!...

[sike]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

That's a great pic, UD!

Myself, I'm relishing the thought of Avery returning to the AAC as the coach of some spare team.

think he is smart enough to double Dirk? I mean, he's seen it work a few times.

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by sike

think he is smart enough to double Dirk? I mean, he's seen it work a few times.

I don't think smart has anything to do with it. If the Spurs used to double Dirk when Avery was playing there, then clearly the right thing to do is to double Dirk. If they played him straight up, then clearly the right thing to do is to play him straight up.

[Dirkadirkastan]

Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

God Dang, I hate Avery but can we put all the "what yo momma says about Avery" in one thread? Plus it makes it easier to compare what all the writers think.

I enjoy the separate threads. It's like a mini-series.

[LonghornDub]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't think smart has anything to do with it. If the Spurs used to double Dirk when Avery was playing there, then clearly the right thing to do is to double Dirk. If they played him straight up, then clearly the right thing to do is to play him straight up.

This is a fairly good summation of Avery's coaching "philosophy."

My only question is from where Avery derived the idea that Josh Howard could be a #2 scorer, and that the best way to make him as such would be to let him run ISO's and shoot 22 foot fadeaways whilst being triple-teamed? I certainly don't recall much of that from the 1999 Spurs. Maybe Avery took a bit of artistic liberty with that one.

[u2sarajevo]

People..... if the quotes about Avery were from a single source and multiple threads with each statement I could see merging. But I don't get the wanting to merge everything Avery related. I can somewhat see the argument about where it's posted but I'm not going to move the thread. Especially since it came from a well respected poster like dude.

Anyway, thanks for posting dude. I enjoy reading the different opinions of our former coach. And Lord knows that I am ready to move on. I love the new coach.... heck if we get mad at him all we have to do is add a P to the front of his first name. What's the O/U on how long it will be before we see that line issued?

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

People..... if the quotes about Avery were from a single source and multiple threads with each statement I could see merging. But I don't get the wanting to merge everything Avery related. I can somewhat see the argument about where it's posted but I'm not going to move the thread. Especially since it came from a well respected poster like dude.

Don't take everything so seriously.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

You're just jealous because you've only posted 4 times in 4 days. Got to work harder man.

You sound like Marc Jackson. Geez I wish that guy would get a coaching jon so ABC would not have him on anymore.

[u2sarajevo]

Originally Posted by Locked_Up_Tonight

Don't take everything so seriously.

Well... I apologize. I missed the sarcasm.

Go Mavs.

[chumdawg]

I don't get the thing about adding a P to his first name...

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by dude1394

If we weren't posting avery stuff, we wouldn't be posting anything.

Even you robillion have posted about 3 items in the mavs threads, most in response to who said's..

Nothing else to really talk about.

i have never posted a who said thread.. ever. heh

unfortunately the only times ive made a thread in the mavs talk have been when i posted the vid of the 07 game 6 against the warriors and accidently called it 08, when i said we could get a free agent cause of all the money coming off the books this summer (not thinking of lux tax), and about josh howard's psyche.... I try to refrain from making threads after those gems. heh.

[Robillion]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

I don't get the thing about adding a P to his first name...

pRick

[chumdawg]

Originally Posted by Robillion

pRick

Ah, gotcha. I misread, and thought it was about Avery. For the life of me I couldn't figure out what Pavery was supposed to mean.

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Robillion

i have never posted a who said thread.. ever. heh

unfortunately the only times ive made a thread in the mavs talk have been when i posted the vid of the 07 game 6 against the warriors and accidently called it 08, when i said we could get a free agent cause of all the money coming off the books this summer (not thinking of lux tax), and about josh howard's psyche.... I try to refrain from making threads after those gems. heh.

My point wasn't the posting of the thread, it was the dearth of posting in general since the season ended. In other words there isn't much to talk about right now except watching ko'ach implode.

[purplefrog]

Gimme more "What _____ said about Avery" threads!!!!

[DevinHarriswillstart]

Dunno if this has been posted already so I won't start a new thread on it....

Full-Frontal Avery
A Naked Truth About Teams' Disinterest
By Mike Fisher -- DB.com



Is Suns GM Steve Kerr’s slap-of-omission of Avery Johnson an accident, a slip of the tongue, a brain-cramping oversight?

Or is Kerr’s view fueled by his first-hand knowledge of one of the NBA’s worst-kept secrets -- a tale lowlighted by bantam-rooster ego, harsh locker-room words, and finally, Naked Greco-Roman Wrestling -- that could be a small part urban legend and a large part of The Lil’ General’s unfortunate legacy?

Quote from Kerr on Phoenix’ ongoing coaching search: “I'm in charge of hiring the right person. … What's interesting is that there are no obvious candidates now. It's not like there are really prominent former head coaches out there.’’

No "right persons''? "No obvious candidates''? No "prominent former head coaches out there''?

Yessir, that is interesting.



We were long ago tipped to one of the reasons Kerr might have that view of Avery as a coach non grata: Steve Nash has a voice in that organization, just as Dirk Nowitzki has a voice in Dallas. Nash and Nowitzki are best friends who listen to each others’ voices. So when Nash is pitching in by doing his due diligence on coaching candidates, and he calls Dirk to find out what went down in Dallas. … well, you get the picture.

And then there are X’s-and-O’s issues, and matters of “fit.’’

But there might be another reason.

According to the lore (and it seems most people inside the NBA know it, and chuckle about it), the year was 2000. Avery Johnson was a season removed from his finest moment, hitting that game-winning shot to help the Robinson/Duncan Spurs to a title. He will always get credit for being a vocal and inspirational leader of that team, but. …

“This is MY team! This is MY team!’’ Avery squawked as he marched through the visitors’ locker room in Cleveland wearing nothing but a towel and too much pride. “This is MY team!’’

He wasn’t really saying it to anyone. No one was really listening. It was, maybe, like Denzel Washington’s crooked cop at the end of “Training Day,’’ a defeated Alonzo Harris theatrically howling at the neighborhood that had finally endured enough of his sociopathic bullying.

“Okay. Alright. I'm putting cases on all you b****s. Huh. You think you can do this s***... You think you can do this to me? You m************s will be playing basketball in Pelican Bay when I get finished with you. SHU program, n****s. 23-hour lockdown. I'm the man up in this piece. You'll never see the light of... who the f*** do you think you're f***** with? I'm the police, I run s*** around here. You just live here. Yeah, that's right, you better walk away. Go on and walk away... 'cause I'm gonna' burn this m*********** down. King Kong ain't got s*** on me. That's right, that's right. … I'm winning anyway, I'm winning... I'm winning any m*********** way. I can't lose. Yeah, you can shoot me, but you can't kill me.’’

Now, imagine that in your ear. Only in a Cajun-flavored squeak.

“This is MY team! This is MY team!’’

Some would argue that Avery was simply flexing a familiar muscle, that using his emotion and his voice in that manner was commonplace and acceptable – certainly acceptable to coach Gregg Popovich, who’d anointed Avery as the admittedly effective surrogate eyes and ears (and mouth) of his roster.

Others say Avery kind of snapped, maybe responding to the realization that making that shot in the NBA Finals game was his pinnacle as a player, and that there was no place to go but down.

Whatever the motivation, a certain group – and by that we mean most of the Spurs players in that locker room that night in Cleveland not named David Robinson – had grown tired of Avery’s chest-thumping, ghetto-preaching, ego-pumping pin-and-needling, “This-Is-MY-Team’’ing form of leadership.

Next thing you know, Malik Rose dogpiled Avery Johnson. They fought. In the locker room. Naked.

Avery was fighting to represent himself. Malik pretty much represented everybody else.

“At the end, they all wanted him out of there,’’ says one NBA lifer who counts himself as a friend of Avery’s. “He grated on them. Bad. It was a matter of time before somebody finally shut him up.’’

Robinson eventually interceded and broke up the brawl. Popovich interceded in his own way, too, later explaining that the disheveled room was the result of his anger.

But it was all Avery. Avery being Avery. The Avery who got one measly scholarship offer, grudgingly accepted it, and twice led the NCAA in assists for Southern. The Avery who wasn’t drafted by the NBA, was frequently rejected by the NBA, and still, three decades later, is a champion as a player and a coach with an incredible .735 regular-season winning percentage.

But he’s also a coach without a job, a leader without a team, a voice without a stage.

What's going on here? Is Avery Johnson destined to be under the curse of Alonzo Harris? You know, coaching basketball in Pelican Bay?

Avery Johnson deserves a tremendous amount of credit for building himself into an NBA force. He would not be in a position to collect $4 million-a-year paychecks (from Mark Cuban or elsewhere,coaching or not) without his feistiness, his combativeness, his ego. But it’s that Michael Irvin philosophy all over again: “A man’s greatest strength is also his greatest weakness.’’

There are two sides to every story, and in this one, Avery’s strength is one side. Avery’s weakness is the other. We're not saying this tale necessarily paints Avery in a newly horrid light, especially considering that, again, NBA insiders have long known the details of the brawl; we will opine that we don't have to portray Avery negatively inasmuch as he continues to make public statements that do a befuddlingly complete job of that all by himself. So much so, in fact, that even the needy Bulls seem to have somehow misplaced his phone number.

Still, having considered both sides of the story and both sides of the man, aware only of Avery's faith-based "Aspire Higher'' reputation, would understandable ask: how does he not qualify to the Phoenix Suns as a “right person,’’ an “obvious candidate,’’ a “prominent former head coach’’?

Well, you know who else was on that team, and in that room, listening to “The Lil’ General’s’’ Cajun cajoling, watching Avery play both sides of management and roster, hearing Avery harshly critique teammates, and then that night in Cleveland, observing as Avery cracked up just a little bit, the pressure getting to him and manifesting itself in Avery being administered a naked-on-the-floor locker-room beatdown?

The future general manager of the Phoenix Suns, Steve Kerr, was on that team. And in that room.

558pm may 17 2008

[dude1394]

Damn...I missed a what fisher said about avery opportunity.

[DirkFTW]

You can't control what the naked wrestling urge do.

[ty]

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Dunno if this has been posted already so I won't start a new thread on it....

I wish you had made a new thread about it. In fact, I hope dude makes a new thread about it. Everybody needs to know how serious of a matter it is that Avery Johnson F-ed up this franchise.

Can't believe people still defend the fool.

[sike]

Very interesting to remember Kerr was on the Spurs then....

[foglemann]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Great Pic.