What Chuck Yeager said about Kobe, officiating and the dirkster - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

dude1394 · 05-31-2008, 07:49 PM

Pretty interesting actually. I didn't watch the spurs/lakers at all, but the lack of ft's that the spurts gave kobe were pretty low from the few box scores I saw.

http://www.bleacherreport.com/articl...BA-officiating

Quote:

Many people are under the impression that because Kobe's number of free throws dropped so dramatically in the Lakers-Spurs series that the refs were actually biased against Kobe rather than biased for him.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

A player's amount of free throws alone means nothing when determining if a player has been officiated properly. You could have a player break the record set for free throws in a playoff run, as Dirk Nowitzki did in the Mavs run to the finals, and it still means nothing in how a player is officiated.

The reason Kobe had no foul shots is because the spurs had come to the conclusion that fouling Kobe.. or making any contact with him is suicide. The Spurs defenders were literally running away from Kobe.

Please do me a favor. Watch both the Mavs' series where the Mavs faced the Spurs and went on to the Finals, and watch this Lakers series, and specifically, watch how the Spurs defend Dirk versus how they defend Kobe in these two series.

Two completely opposite gameplans for these star players. With Dirk, the Spurs are as physical as possible. Hitting him constantly throughout the series. With Kobe they are literally running away from him and trying NOT to touch him. So, why would they do this? It's not because Kobe is a better scorer than Dirk. If that was the case, the Lakers wouldn't have been so willing to trade Kobe FOR Dirk in the off season as Cuban stated they were in a recent interview. And if Kobe was that much better of a scorer than Dirk, Cuban would have made the deal for him and traded Dirk.

So, why would the Spurs not touch Kobe at all and beat on Dirk all day long? Because Kobe will get 150% of the calls if you play him physical. Kobe will get calls when no one even touches him. He will get a call every single time anyone even comes near him. Because the NBA refs give guys like Kobe, LeBron, and Wade preferential treatment.

It is the complete opposite with Dirk. With Dirk, it PAYS to foul him. It pays because the refs are literally only going to call about 5% of the fouls and contact on him. It pays to foul Dirk because eventually you are going to have Dirk with so many freethrows that NBA fans and the media will say Dirk is getting preferential treatment because he is white and because the NBA wants a white player to advance. When it's actually the complete opposite. What takes the hit is Dirk's FG%, because he is getting fouled repeatedly and not allowed to play his game. And the impact of this is huge. It allows one player to defend Dirk rather than double or triple teams, which impedes the offense and prevents the other Mavs from scoring.

And the way Kobe is officated does the complete opposite for his teammates. They are getting wide open three pointers constantly and layups because you need multiple defenders to defend Kobe, because unlike with Dirk, one guy isn't allowed to foul Kobe constantly.

Whats even worse about this though, is that Dirk is a better shooter than Kobe.. he's a better post player than Kobe. He is even a better free throw shooter than Kobe. In fact.. I truly believe.. Dirk is a bigger mismatch on the perimeter at the power forward position than Kobe is at to the players at his position -- guys Kobe's size. By allowing a guy Bowen's size to foul Dirk and take him out of the game, the refs are taking that advantage away.

The scary part though is that there is no way to change this. A player like Kobe or Wade is treated like Michael Jordan just because they were fortunate enough to play with Shaq and because they fit the stereotype of a great basketball player -- not white like Dirk and Nash. Watch the Suns' series to see how Bruce Bowen guards Steve Nash compared to Kobe as well.

The problem with the NBA is that fouls can't be proved. It's all subjective. And because of this the NBA has to be a popularity contest. Kobe was very fortunate to play with Shaq early on in his career. Not unlike Duncan with David Robinson. Both Kobe and Duncan are officiated differently than other players because of this. They were perceived as great players right out of the gate because of this.

Look at Shaq, it took him playing with Phil Jackson, and Phil had to do some heavy politicking early on with the refs and through the media to get Shaq officated the way he wanted him officiated. Then, when Shaq won his first championship, the flood gates were opened and Shaq got all the calls he wanted. You rarely ever saw Phil complaining about officiating after Shaq won his first championship. Because the genie was out of the bottle. And Kobe got that same biased officiating from that point on as well.

The reality is that the Lakers getting Pau Gasol didn't just make Kobe's life easier. It made the refs lives easier, too. Because they had been trying to get the Lakers and Kobe to the finals the whole time. Simply because it was the popular thing to do.

Dirkadirkastan · 05-31-2008, 07:55 PM

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Chuck Yeager again.

dude1394 · 05-31-2008, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Chuck Yeager again.

Ha!!

sike · 05-31-2008, 07:57 PM

"The reason Kobe had no foul shots is because the spurs had come to the conclusion that fouling Kobe.. or making any contact with him is suicide. The Spurs defenders were literally running away from Kobe."

I may be crazy...and didn't watch every game, but it seemed to me that Bowen was still playing his usual "Hands On" approach...ticky and touchy the whole time....always a hand on a hip.

Usually Lurkin · 05-31-2008, 08:17 PM

uh, Kobe is a better scorer than Dirk.
otherwise, preaching to the choir here.

BGMaverick9 · 05-31-2008, 08:43 PM

sike, I think Bowen was being physical but not the 100 percent borderline karate-kid style. Bowen gets the nod from the refs and etc so those touch things won't get called all the time. But I remember Pop enforcing the rule to not man up hard on Kobe and if he gets rolling to the lane, to lay off and don't give him free throw attempts.

They were saying that was tough on a guy like Ginobili, really does that and takes on the challenge.

sike · 05-31-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BGMaverick9

sike, I think Bowen was being physical but not the 100 percent borderline karate-kid style.

Probably right on that....but I've always thought it was all the touching and nudging that Bowen gets away with..along with amazing foot work..that really makes him so tough...I still saw that on Kobe. You're right though, it was a rugby match.

BGMaverick9 · 05-31-2008, 09:05 PM

He or They made it such a severe point of emphasis NOT to foul Kobe when he was attacking or anything, so he wouldn't get to the line.

MavsFanFinley · 05-31-2008, 11:35 PM

The plan was to give Kobe some space and force him into the jump shot. A couple times Bowen (or Udoka) got right up on him and he went around them for an easy layup or dunk or pass off to Gasol/Odom when the 2nd defender came over.

Bowen is good enough still to keep Kobe in front of him and force him to make jumpers. Problem is that Kobe is darn good at making them.

fluid.forty.one · 06-01-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirkadirkastan

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Chuck Yeager again.

boy, you said it!

nashtymavsfan13 · 06-01-2008, 02:34 AM

This is a very well written article, finally someone gets it.

"What takes the hit is Dirk's FG%, because he is getting fouled repeatedly and not allowed to play his game. And the impact of this is huge. It allows one player to defend Dirk rather than double or triple teams, which impedes the offense and prevents the other Mavs from scoring.

And the way Kobe is officated does the complete opposite for his teammates. They are getting wide open three pointers constantly and layups because you need multiple defenders to defend Kobe, because unlike with Dirk, one guy isn't allowed to foul Kobe constantly."

That's spot on.

nashtymavsfan13 · 06-01-2008, 02:36 AM

And in one of the comments on his blog in which he is responding to a reader, he says this:

"The NBA is a popularity contest. The refs are just giving the people what they want -- just like when they gave Shaq and Wade the championship."

fluid.forty.one · 06-01-2008, 02:47 AM

Chuck Yeager is my new favorite person ever.

Dr.Zoidberg · 06-01-2008, 04:56 AM

Great article! Finally someone who writes it like it is.

Underdog · 06-01-2008, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

uh, Kobe is a better scorer than Dirk.

BLASPHEMY!!!

Commandment #2: "You shall have no other gods before me."

Dirk dunked for our sins...

V2M · 06-01-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

uh, Kobe is a better scorer than Dirk.
otherwise, preaching to the choir here.

Kobe obviously is quicker and has better handles... while Dirk is taller and is more consistent with his mid-range jumper (although, of course, Kobe is very good from mid-range himself).

Overall, just 'cuz there's enough quick, athletic 6'6" swingmen out there to guard Kobe, I think, Dirk's a bigger mismatch on the offensive end. In fact, I haven't seen a player get double or triple-teamed on the perimeter, as much as Dirk got in the last few playoff series.

LSMF · 06-01-2008, 06:29 PM

I've been waiting for someone other than the Sports guy to speak about how people like Wade are given preferential treatment while Dirk gets beat up by scrub defenders with no call.

LSMF · 06-01-2008, 06:38 PM

And this article is very old but it came out a little while after the 06 finals, the guy had some opinions on how the finals were officiated, check out the first 2 sentences and then scroll down to the second column and you'll see what Im talking about. http://www.oddjack.com/index.php?s=miami+heat+2005-2006

Sportstudi · 06-05-2008, 11:31 AM

Finally someone got it! But like he wrote, the NBA will never change. Dirk will never have the same treatment like Kobe, Wade or LeBron, 'cause he is a tall, lanky, European white-guy and a 7-footer who likes shooting the three and the jumpshot. Moreover, he is not "cool" in terms of many NBA-fans, so he generally sucks in their opinion. What a shame...

Flacolaco · 06-05-2008, 11:41 AM

First he breaks the sound barrier, and now this...

Murphy3 · 06-05-2008, 11:46 AM

Officiating is truly one of the reasons why I'm a few seasons away from kicking the NBA to the curb.

Big Money · 06-05-2008, 12:40 PM

Dirk is a big, bigs take more contact than guards, get over it. Did you ever see how Shaq was guarded? Players hung on to him, its just comes with the territory.

sike · 06-05-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flacolaco

First he breaks the sound barrier, and now this...

thank you for this post....

Flip41 · 06-05-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murphy3

Officiating is truly one of the reasons why I'm a few seasons away from kicking the NBA to the curb.

This is part of the reason I started following the world game of soccer. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mavs, but I hate the league and the officiating. Some may say that there is a good bit of flopping and bad officiating in soccer, but there are also stiffer penalties for both. I don't follow the MLS though. I stick to the EPL and Aston Villa.

sike · 06-05-2008, 02:51 PM

the acting is worse in soccer...its kinda pathetic.

Flip41 · 06-05-2008, 02:54 PM

To each his own, sike. It's not every player that acts.

WayOutWest · 06-05-2008, 03:25 PM

There are players in the league you can beat up and take them out of their game, Dirk is one of them, Kobe is not. Gasol and Odom for the Lakers cannot handle being played physical, heck 90% of the Lakers roster is that way not to mention 80% of the Western Conference.

One of the biggest problems for Dirk is he has the best of both worlds in terms of his game, size and skills, but that in turn gets him the worst of both worlds in terms of officiating. Perimeter players get a lot of touch foul calls. Post players have to be hammered to get a call. The undeserved problem with Dirk is he is physically a post player but he has a perimeter game. A touch foul makes a bigger difference when you are trying to score from 15 feet away. Getting hammered 2 feet away from the basket has less of an effect on a player.

Plain and simple, Dirk is ahead of his time.

alby · 06-05-2008, 03:29 PM

http://www.bleacherreport.com/articl...BA-officiating

Many people are under the impression that because Kobe's number of free throws dropped so dramatically in the Lakers-Spurs series that the refs were actually biased against Kobe rather than biased for him.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

A player's amount of free throws alone means nothing when determining if a player has been officiated properly. You could have a player break the record set for free throws in a playoff run, as Dirk Nowitzki did in the Mavs run to the finals, and it still means nothing in how a player is officiated.

The reason Kobe had no foul shots is because the spurs had come to the conclusion that fouling Kobe.. or making any contact with him is suicide. The Spurs defenders were literally running away from Kobe.

Please do me a favor. Watch both the Mavs' series where the Mavs faced the Spurs and went on to the Finals, and watch this Lakers series, and specifically, watch how the Spurs defend Dirk versus how they defend Kobe in these two series.

Two completely opposite gameplans for these star players. With Dirk, the Spurs are as physical as possible. Hitting him constantly throughout the series. With Kobe they are literally running away from him and trying NOT to touch him. So, why would they do this? It's not because Kobe is a better scorer than Dirk. If that was the case, the Lakers wouldn't have been so willing to trade Kobe FOR Dirk in the off season as Cuban stated they were in a recent interview. And if Kobe was that much better of a scorer than Dirk, Cuban would have made the deal for him and traded Dirk.

So, why would the Spurs not touch Kobe at all and beat on Dirk all day long? Because Kobe will get 150% of the calls if you play him physical. Kobe will get calls when no one even touches him. He will get a call every single time anyone even comes near him. Because the NBA refs give guys like Kobe, LeBron, and Wade preferential treatment.

It is the complete opposite with Dirk. With Dirk, it PAYS to foul him. It pays because the refs are literally only going to call about 5% of the fouls and contact on him. It pays to foul Dirk because eventually you are going to have Dirk with so many freethrows that NBA fans and the media will say Dirk is getting preferential treatment because he is white and because the NBA wants a white player to advance. When it's actually the complete opposite. What takes the hit is Dirk's FG%, because he is getting fouled repeatedly and not allowed to play his game. And the impact of this is huge. It allows one player to defend Dirk rather than double or triple teams, which impedes the offense and prevents the other Mavs from scoring.

And the way Kobe is officated does the complete opposite for his teammates. They are getting wide open three pointers constantly and layups because you need multiple defenders to defend Kobe, because unlike with Dirk, one guy isn't allowed to foul Kobe constantly.

Whats even worse about this though, is that Dirk is a better shooter than Kobe.. he's a better post player than Kobe. He is even a better free throw shooter than Kobe. In fact.. I truly believe.. Dirk is a bigger mismatch on the perimeter at the power forward position than Kobe is at to the players at his position -- guys Kobe's size. By allowing a guy Bowen's size to foul Dirk and take him out of the game, the refs are taking that advantage away.

The scary part though is that there is no way to change this. A player like Kobe or Wade is treated like Michael Jordan just because they were fortunate enough to play with Shaq and because they fit the stereotype of a great basketball player -- not white like Dirk and Nash. Watch the Suns' series to see how Bruce Bowen guards Steve Nash compared to Kobe as well.

The problem with the NBA is that fouls can't be proved. It's all subjective. And because of this the NBA has to be a popularity contest. Kobe was very fortunate to play with Shaq early on in his career. Not unlike Duncan with David Robinson. Both Kobe and Duncan are officiated differently than other players because of this. They were perceived as great players right out of the gate because of this.

Look at Shaq, it took him playing with Phil Jackson, and Phil had to do some heavy politicking early on with the refs and through the media to get Shaq officated the way he wanted him officiated. Then, when Shaq won his first championship, the flood gates were opened and Shaq got all the calls he wanted. You rarely ever saw Phil complaining about officiating after Shaq won his first championship. Because the genie was out of the bottle. And Kobe got that same biased officiating from that point on as well.

The reality is that the Lakers getting Pau Gasol didn't just make Kobe's life easier. It made the refs lives easier, too. Because they had been trying to get the Lakers and Kobe to the finals the whole time. Simply because it was the popular thing to do.

---

I don't care what people say, people call him "soft"; people call him "not clutch"; people say he "can not lead a team". The bottom line for me is that it is truly a pleasure to be a fan of Dirk Nowitzki. It has been a joy to watch him grow and develop... starting out as a skinny teenager who could barely get his shot off when he first entered the league, to become the superstar that he is today. Hard work, dedication, motivation, and sacrifice are the words I would use to describe the type of player this guy is. Dirk for life.

PS: July 1st can't come here soon enough.

Flacolaco · 06-05-2008, 03:31 PM

http://dallas-mavs.com/vb/showthread...525#post871525

LSMF · 06-05-2008, 03:34 PM

"What takes the hit is Dirk's FG%, because he is getting fouled repeatedly and not allowed to play his game. And the impact of this is huge. It allows one player to defend Dirk rather than double or triple teams, which impedes the offense and prevents the other Mavs from scoring".

A perfect example of this was the 2006 finals where Haslem was allowed to just beat up Dirk with no call. It was very hard for me to watch Dirk get beat up while Wade got to go to the line 97 times.

PS I think someone already posted this article though.

thurst0509 · 06-05-2008, 03:42 PM

What's July 1st?

BGMaverick9 · 06-05-2008, 03:44 PM

the "start" of the offseason with FA and trades and etc.

ghazi · 06-05-2008, 05:05 PM

I shall follow Dirk Nowitzki to the gates of hell.

ty · 06-05-2008, 05:10 PM

I love when repeat threads thrive.

Edit: lol nvm, alby's thread got mod pwned.

DevinHarriswillstart · 06-05-2008, 06:01 PM

I think Dirk gained a Kobe quality when he came back from that injury. That regular season game against the Suns when it was like his 2nd or 3rd game back was spectacular. He literally, like the greats, elevated his game to above everyone else that night. I saw a man who could not be guarded under any circumstances. That is a hard quality to find in a player. Unfortunately, like Kobe, Dirk can't do it all by himself.

alby · 06-05-2008, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ty

I love when repeat threads thrive.

Edit: lol nvm, alby's thread got mod pwned.

ty, it was fun while it lasted

ShaggyDirk · 06-05-2008, 07:13 PM

W.W.D.D.

LSMF · 06-05-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think Dirk gained a Kobe quality when he came back from that injury. That regular season game against the Suns when it was like his 2nd or 3rd game back was spectacular. He literally, like the greats, elevated his game to above everyone else that night. I saw a man who could not be guarded under any circumstances. That is a hard quality to find in a player. Unfortunately, like Kobe, Dirk can't do it all by himself.

Yeah I still remember that game it was such a great moment for Mavs fans and the Mavs, they came back from a double digit deficit with tough defense and then Dirk hit that dagger while he was about to fall. I still remember seeing Dirk and Kidd hugging after that game, such a great moment.