John McCain's very own housing crisis

[Arne]

Man, that's a housing crisis. It's tough to be John McCain...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kXWTwvir9U

[dude1394]

Originally Posted by Arne

Man, that's a housing crisis. It's tough to be John McCain...

I would have to agree...I don't think I'd trade places with him.

John McCain's capture and imprisonment began on October 26, 1967. He was flying his 23rd bombing mission over North Vietnam, when his A-4E Skyhawk was shot down by a missile over Hanoi.[30][31] McCain fractured both arms and a leg, and then nearly drowned, when he parachuted into Truc Bach Lake in Hanoi.[30] After he regained consciousness, a crowd attacked him, crushed his shoulder with a rifle butt, and bayoneted him.[30] Lieutenant Commander McCain was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton".[31]

Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information, and he was given medical care only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral.[33] His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of major newspapers.[34][35]

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care.[30] Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white,[30] McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi[36] in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week.[37] In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.[38]

In mid–1968, McCain's father was named commander of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater, and McCain was offered early release.[39] The North Vietnamese made that offer because they wanted to appear merciful for propaganda purposes,[40] and also wanted to show other POWs that elites like McCain were willing to be treated preferentially.[39] McCain turned down the offer of repatriation; he would only accept the offer if every man taken in before him was released as well.[30]

In August 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain.[41] He was subjected to rope bindings and repeated beatings every two hours, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery.[30][41] Further injuries led to the beginning of a suicide attempt, which was stopped by guards.[30] After four days, McCain made an anti-American propaganda "confession".[30] He has always felt that his statement was dishonorable, but as he would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[42][43] His injuries left him permanently incapable of raising his arms above his head.[44] He subsequently received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal to sign additional statements.[45] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions" and propaganda statements.[46]

McCain refused to meet with various anti-war groups seeking peace in Hanoi, wanting to give neither them nor the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.[47] From late 1969 onward, treatment of McCain and many of the other POWs became more tolerable,[48] while McCain continued to be an active resister against the camp authorities.[49] McCain and other prisoners cheered the B-52 Stratofortress-led U.S. "Christmas Bombing" campaign of December 1972, which they viewed as a forceful measure to push North Vietnam to terms.[43][50]

Altogether, McCain was held as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam for five and a half years. He was finally released from captivity on March 14, 1973.[51]

[dude1394]

Must be tough to be Michelle Obama also.

Michelle Obama -- currently on unpaid leave from her $317,000-a-year job as a vice president of the prestigious hospital

[rabbitproof]

[wmbwinn]

Is it bad to be rich?

If so, then Obama is a fraud also.

Come on, guys/gals. Many people who are rich earned it and their wealth is an evidence of their hard work. Some married the money and are just lucky. Some inherited the money and are just lucky.

This is a silly arguement.

[chumdawg]

Is it bad to be elitist?

Or do you just get lucky?

[wmbwinn]

Originally Posted by chumdawg

Is it bad to be elitist?

Or do you just get lucky?

Elitist presupposes an attitude of superiority. Now, of the two candidates (McCain and Obama), which seems to to assume an air of superiority?

Being elitist is not synonymous with being wealthy. Some people with no significant assets behave in an elitist style. Sam Walton (Walmart) walked around in blue jean overalls.

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Elitist presupposes an attitude of superiority. Now, of the two candidates (McCain and Obama), which seems to to assume an air of superiority?

Being elitist is not synonymous with being wealthy. Some people with no significant assets behave in an elitist style. Sam Walton (Walmart) walked around in blue jean overalls.

Both do. Go read McCain's campaign statements. They just reek of arrogance.

Obama is also arrogant. But 'elitism', despite what Republicans have asserted in every election cycle in the last 20 years, is not restricted to Democrats. In order to BE a politician, one must decide that one thinks they're qualified to make decisions on behalf of other people.

EDIT: If you're saying that McCain isn't an elitist because he's not particularly intelligent, then yes, I would agree with you.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Some people with no significant assets behave in an elitist style.

Take Underdog and his eloquent tastes, for example...


(is it "elitist" when you're ALWAYS right?)

[wmbwinn]

Agree with Kirobaito that both are "elitists". That is why the discussion is silly. It is not as if one is more "down to earth" than the other...

[Kirobaito]

Originally Posted by wmbwinn

Agree with Kirobaito that both are "elitists". That is why the discussion is silly. It is not as if one is more "down to earth" than the other...

I'd say the issue is that the prevailing idea is that Democrats are "elitists" and Republicans are just "regular guys"... unfortunately, you can't level with voters with the truth, "We're both elitists." So what's the other option? Use what you can to make the other guy look like one (despite the ridiculousness of the accusation in the first place).

Obama is doing what he has to. McCain made himself look like a bumbling, elitist idiot, if not senile, and to not take advantage of that is poor campaigning.

[wmbwinn]

Agree again with Kirobaito.

[wmbwinn]

The older general statement that Dems are "elitists" goes to a much broader idea. That broader more general idea is that you have to be an "elitist" to believe you can take over for a people and help them. It is the old "small government" versus "big government" debate. The "big government" notion that Big Brother will take care of you is "elitist" in the broader, more general tone of political theory.

But, that older, more general flavor has no meaning in the issue when the two candidates are attacking each other personally.