2-4: Mavs look like a pile of poo. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

jthig32 · 11-09-2008, 06:08 PM

That was embarassing.

Dirk played well.

Green played pretty well and deserves to be in the rotation permanently.

Damp played well and I don't understand why he doesn't play in the fourth quarter. He did miss a few bunnies in close that he needs to convert, but when Damp gives you 9 and 7 in 22 minutes you take that and question why he didn't play 30 minutes.

Kidd was solid, but today may be an example of his line looking better than he actually played. I'd like to see more shot making from him when the team is struggling offensively.

Welcome to the 08-09 season Stackhouse; not that he was anything speical. He just wasn't horrendous.

It's hard to accurately describe how awful Jet was today.

Other than Jet and maybe Bass, it's hard to come up with anyone that was abjectly horrible today. And yet they lost by 11 to the freaking Clippers.

People are bemoaning the offense, and it's been rough. However, this team is supposed to be complimenting its half court offense with a lot of running. Well when's the last time you remember the Mavs getting three or four stops in a row and pushing the ball for easy baskets? A run like that really swings momentum, and between lack of stops and lack of rebounding we haven't been getting many lately.

We did have one of those in the fourth today but those were steals and was kind of fluky.

I have no idea what to do right now. I expected early struggles, but not this.

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 06:10 PM

You hope Stack gets some kind of momentum going and help the trade value more, and then you hope Bass doesn't make his value plummet.

LonghornDub · 11-09-2008, 06:12 PM

They'll improve. Who knows how much they'll improve, but they will. I for one intend to just sit back and enjoy the ride. Hopefully they don't lose 50+ games or something.

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

They'll improve. Who knows how much they'll improve, but they will. I for one intend to just sit back and enjoy the ride. Hopefully they don't lose 50+ games or something.

Now THAT is a bumpy ride!

I agree though with the plan...but keeping thinking forward.

jthig32 · 11-09-2008, 06:14 PM

It *is* worth noting that the Mavs were missing an awfully important player, someone who was playing awfully well so far this season.

Combine that with Jet playing....just horrendously...and it's not surprising that we lost.

But it's still depressing.

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 06:18 PM

Yeah, I thought about it near the end...does Josh make the difference in this game?

I really couldn't give a solid answer either way.

Dirkadirkastan · 11-09-2008, 06:23 PM

The Mavs have historically played quite well without Howard.

Zki41 · 11-09-2008, 06:25 PM

While Josh makes a difference, I don't think we should have needed him to beat the now 1-5 Clippers.

I think this was Green's regular season statement game, and hopefully it'll be understood that he definitely needs to get regular minutes like this, if not a starting position somewhere.

I am also glad but sad at the same time Stackhouse shot 5-9. I'd rather us have given up on him completely then let him get a "good" game like this to cause us to reconsider all of our doubts, and thus drawing this act further than anticipated.

dirno2000 · 11-09-2008, 06:33 PM

This was a tough loss but the Clippers aren't a typical 0-6 team. They're loaded with veteran players who know how to win games. This wasn't like losing to Oklahoma City.

BTW, does anyone know if our 2010 pick is lottery protected?

Dirkenstien · 11-09-2008, 06:34 PM

Positives were Dirk and Green tonight.

Pretty depressing how this team is playing. A combination of Howard being out and Jet playing crappy isn't a good scenario. I'm really not sure what this team needs.

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-09-2008, 06:37 PM

I think the correct starting line-up when Howard gets back is,

Kidd
Green
Howard
Dirk
Damp

There should be success with those starters eventually. If Carlisle keeps starting Green....

jthig32 · 11-09-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

This was a tough loss but the Clippers aren't a typical 0-6 team. They're loaded with veteran players who know how to win games. This wasn't like losing to Oklahoma City.

BTW, does anyone know if our 2010 pick is lottery protected?

It is not.

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

I think the correct starting line-up when Howard gets back is,

Kidd
Green
Howard
Dirk
Damp

There should be success with those starters eventually. If Carlisle keeps starting Green....

We'll see...but there is potential there.

Bayliss · 11-09-2008, 06:43 PM

But that lineup should finish the game too. Can someone go to popcornmachine and see if Damp has finished a game for the Mavs? I don't remember it. It is weird how he doesn't see the 4th. The defense might improve a lot in the fourth if he and Dirk were paired together.

Dtownsfinest · 11-09-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LonghornDub

They'll improve. Who knows how much they'll improve, but they will. I for one intend to just sit back and enjoy the ride. Hopefully they don't lose 50+ games or something.

I hate to sound like a have a loser's mentality but i'm not sure if losing 50+ is that bad at this point. This team could use some youth. I hope we can get into next year's draft class with trades though.

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

But that lineup should finish the game too. Can someone go to popcornmachine and see if Damp has finished a game for the Mavs? I don't remember it. It is weird how he doesn't see the 4th. The defense might improve a lot in the fourth if he and Dirk were paired together.

So now are you saying defense was a problem?

Dtownsfinest · 11-09-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

It is not.

You sure? We've already traded our 2010 pick? Or does drno mean 2009 draft pick?

DevinHarriswillstart · 11-09-2008, 06:51 PM

Green did look a lot like a young Mcgrady on some of those offensive plays.

jthig32 · 11-09-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

You sure? We've already traded our 2010 pick? Or does drno mean 2009 draft pick?

We traded the 2010 pick in the Devin deal, and it is not lotto protected.The '08 pick we traded was.

jthig32 · 11-09-2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirno2000

This was a tough loss but the Clippers aren't a typical 0-6 team. They're loaded with veteran players who know how to win games. This wasn't like losing to Oklahoma City.

BTW, does anyone know if our 2010 pick is lottery protected?

I'm fresh out of early season optimism right now, so I'm glad someone else is pointing this out. The Clips have been without Baron Davis and Cabmy for some games this season, and have played a really tough schedule.

Still....we really need to win today.

GermanDunk · 11-09-2008, 06:54 PM

Crap ! G´night folks !

Bayliss · 11-09-2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

So now are you saying defense was a problem?

Never said it wasn't a problem. I said offense is the bigger problem. But at the moment I'm arguing cat sh*t smells worse and you are saying dog sh*t smells worse. Either way it is all sh*t and it all smells.

(But cat sh*t is still a bigger problem.)

Dtownsfinest · 11-09-2008, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

We traded the 2010 pick in the Devin deal, and it is not lotto protected.The '08 pick we traded was.

OH okay. Yea I thought we couldn't trade consecutive picks anyway lol. So we have this year's pick? I guess we should be careful on the "rebuilding" talks. WE don't even have a 2010 pick.

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 06:59 PM

I had stuff...edited...

I'm done arguing that point, defense is just as much of a problem as the offense.

Ninkobei · 11-09-2008, 06:59 PM

maybe we can trade jason kidd for devin harris?

Dirkadirkastan · 11-09-2008, 07:02 PM

I slept through this game.

Dtownsfinest · 11-09-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevinHarriswillstart

Green did look a lot like a young Mcgrady on some of those offensive plays.

I had no clue Green was so young. He's only 22. Still amazes me this guy got cut and couldn't find a job. He can really be special. JR Smith is finally just getting it going. Deshawn Stevenson took awhile. This is around the time high schoolers start to get it. And he hasn't even had a consistent home yet. I'm sort of worried about him playing so well that we can't even resign him because he'll demand more than the mid-level.

Dtownsfinest · 11-09-2008, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

maybe we can trade jason kidd for devin harris?

Only a fool would do that. Who'd sign a aging point guard for a young one with atleast 10 more years left in the league?

Bayliss · 11-09-2008, 07:04 PM

Well, when you are 2-4, you have several problems. But (IMO) defense isn't the problem. Offense is the bigger problem that needs to be fixed first. If you can't score. You aren't going to win.

The only team that ever got by with it was the Pistons. The Mavs cannot score.

Bayliss · 11-09-2008, 07:05 PM

As if Devin would solve the Mav problems. He really helped in 06 against Miami and in 07 against GS.

Dtownsfinest · 11-09-2008, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

As if Devin would solve the Mav problems. He really helped in 06 against Miami and in 07 against GS.

No he wouldn't help. But at this point with a team full of 30 year olds i'd like to replace some of those guys with 20 year olds. Everyone over 30 on this team is a liability of some sort except Dirk.

LonghornDub · 11-09-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayliss

Well, when you are 2-4, you have several problems. But (IMO) defense isn't the problem. Offense is the bigger problem that needs to be fixed first. If you can't score. You aren't going to win.

The only team that ever got by with it was the Pistons. The Mavs cannot score.

If you can't stop people, you aren't going to win either.

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 07:18 PM

It's clearly a philosophical viewpoint argument. That's all it is.

When it comes down to it, you're defense has to be solid. I'm not even going to say the obvious saying...

dirno2000 · 11-09-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninkobei

maybe we can trade jason kidd for devin harris?

Throw in two first rounders and you got a deal

Usually Lurkin · 11-09-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

No he wouldn't help. But at this point with a team full of 30 year olds i'd like to replace some of those guys with 20 year olds. Everyone over 30 on this team is a liability of some sort except Dirk.

why not look to some of the old guys that are actually not contributing, or can be counted on to contribute only sporadically (stackhouse and terry!). Kidd for Harris would be as lateral a move talent wise as Harris for Kidd, and with Kidd we've got potential for better team ball. We're just lacking the team to ball with.

DubOverdose · 11-09-2008, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

OH okay. Yea I thought we couldn't trade consecutive picks anyway lol. So we have this year's pick? I guess we should be careful on the "rebuilding" talks. WE don't even have a 2010 pick.

Maybe we can beg NJ to trade us that pick back in exchange for Bass?

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 07:41 PM

quoting because this is spot on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthig32

This offense was supposed to score partly because it was supposed to get easy baskets off the break. Improve the defense and rebounding and you will improve the offense.

Dtownsfinest · 11-09-2008, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

why not look to some of the old guys that are actually not contributing, or can be counted on to contribute only sporadically (stackhouse and terry!). Kidd for Harris would be as lateral a move talent wise as Harris for Kidd, and with Kidd we've got potential for better team ball. We're just lacking the team to ball with.

If teams would take Terry's contract and Stackhouse than i'm all for it. But It hinkw e have to be a realistic about this. Dirk has trade bait, I imagine Green now does, Bass somewhat and Josh Howard somewhat. I can't imagine a team trading for anyone on this team outside of them. JET's contract makes him difficult to move. I'm for trading Kidd. I feel he's our only real trade bait. I'd probably wait until the All Star Break to do so though. That's when teams figure out what their future holds for the season. Whether they want to make a trade to get into the postseason or to blow up their team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubOverdose

Maybe we can beg NJ to trade us that pick back in exchange for Bass?

Would you do it? I'm on the fence. I like Bass' potential. I guess it matters how good the pick is. If its 15 and up i'd rather keep Bass.

ghazi · 11-09-2008, 07:47 PM

didn't see the game, I dunno what to think. Agree that the Clippers are not your typical 0-5 or 0-6 team, and Jho was out... but it still hurts to lose a "gimme" like this.

Can't get a read on this team. Just seems like we're not that good on offense, not that good on defense, and not that good on the glass... whereas a few years ago we were efficient in all 3 of these areas. *sigh*.

No championship vibe whatsoever. and quite frankly, even if those are lofty expectations, that's the only thing that would make me feel happy about this year (I guess a deep playoff run would suffice)... I will still follow the Mavs to the gates of hell though, regardless of how this year turns out.

Lakers coming up on Tuesday... really would like to see us beat a legit team... we've done that what, 3-4 since the Kidd trade?

BGMaverick9 · 11-09-2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dtownsfinest

If teams would take Terry's contract and Stackhouse than i'm all for it. But It hinkw e have to be a realistic about this. Dirk has trade bait, I imagine Green now does, Bass somewhat and Josh Howard somewhat. I can't imagine a team trading for anyone on this team outside of them. JET's contract makes him difficult to move. I'm for trading Kidd. I feel he's our only real trade bait. I'd probably wait until the All Star Break to do so though. That's when teams figure out what their future holds for the season. Whether they want to make a trade to get into the postseason or to blow up their team.

I agree Jet's contract makes it hard to move, but I'm not really sure they would be inclined to move him in the first place unless the deal sweeps them off their feet. It doesn't make sense to trade Kidd unless you have a plan in place for the short/long term for a PG. I think Howard still has relatively good value, as does Bass but his is sinking slightly. I think Stack has value simply for the fact his contract is up...teams won't care about the player, they care about the numbers coming off the books.