Butler or Marion

[Zki41]

Do you guys think that Butler and Marion should both remain starters on the team, or do we need to move one to the bench (this could depend on several factors, like the emergence of Roddy, free agency, trades in general). If so, which one should receive the more prominent role going forward, with the other becoming a bench player or possibly getting traded (like with the DUST Chip). Neither is also a possibility.

I personally believe we need to keep both on the team, but I do not think Butler at shooting guard is working as well as we would hope. Butler has too many Josh tendencies, and while he can spread the floor and shoot the occasional three, and can drive, he quickly resorts to the jump-shot. A lot of the faster guards will give him trouble on defense. Marion on the other hand, has been inconsistent in his offensive role, but has been more than satisfactory on defense. I feel the Kidd/Butler/Marion/Dirk/Haywood line up does not have enough offense, and only slightly above average defense. I think we just have to pick one at SF based on the match up and what is going on in the game, whether we need offense or defense. Unfortunately that leaves a hole at SG in which we need Roddy or a free agent to reside in, to do things like shoot 3's and cut through the lane. If we have to give up one of Butler or Marion, I think Butler is more desirable due to his talents and his contract, but I also think he would be the better fit at small forward if we fill the void in at SG. While we take a step back defensively, I think we have enough offensive weapons that we could maybe get Butler to take a greater role defensively. If that does not work out, his contract, going into the new CBA in 2011, will be desired by the trade deadline.

[grndmstr_c]

Very happy to see both here next year, but I do think that the team would fare best when both guys play primarily as forwards, and that means bringing one of them off the bench; probably Marion.

That said, I have a hard time believing that the odds of both guys being back are much better than 50/50. Butler's name in particular is going to figure prominently in trade talks this summer.

[jthig32]

I think it's very unlikely that Butler is back next year. Given the choice I'll take Marion.

[Usually Lurkin]

assuming we get another scorer, Marion works as Mr. Defense. Assuming we fail at that (which I do), we'll need to keep Butler, as the more well rounded player.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by Usually Lurkin

assuming we get another scorer, Marion works as Mr. Defense. Assuming we fail at that (which I do), we'll need to keep Butler, as the more well rounded player.

Even if everything else remains same at the swing positions, I'll take the offense I expect Roddy to provide and keep Marion. I think the flexibility Marion provided defensively this season went under appreciated at times, even around here.

He spent significant time guarding Tony Parker over the last half of the series and we barely even mentioned it because it was expected. That's a huge, huge, huge asset.

[FINtastic]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I think it's very unlikely that Butler is back next year. Given the choice I'll take Marion.

I'm curious, is that because you think the Mavs are going to make a big move with Butler being a key piece, or is that because you think the Mavs are going to just try to rid themselves of him?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by FINtastic

I'm curious, is that because you think the Mavs are going to make a big move with Butler being a key piece, or is that because you think the Mavs are going to just try to rid themselves of him?

I don't think they're going to just dump him for anything, but I think it's pretty obvious at this point that he's pretty sub-standard as a SG and does his best work at SF.

I think (hope, maybe) that the Mavs truly value what Marion meant to this team this season. He's not just an elite defender, he's an elite defender that can guard four positions depending on the matchups. A player that can effectively guard Carmelo, Durant, Kobe, Ginobili, Monta Ellis and Tony Parker is awfully rare indeed. That's even harder to replace than a scorer at the swing position. And while it's not really top of mind after the Spurs series, the way we were able to defend elite swing men this season was incredibly refreshing. I don't want to give that up.

If they don't move Butler I expect him to come off the bench next season. But I think the Mavs will make at least one significant trade this off season, and I think it's highly likely that Butler is involved.

[tcat075]

I'm not the basketball mind you are, Jthig. I totally understand that. But it seems to me that this team was the number 2 seed last year and lost in the playoffs due to a disappointing offensive performance, mainly in the early quarters.

It seems to me (and yes, I am an extreme optimist by nature) that the basic guys here should result in a really good team next year with a few key additions. Dirk as the centerpiece, Marion as the lockdown defender, Kidd as the old distributing vet, Butler as one of the two offensive options behind Dirk.

JET needs to go. Between him, Dampier's contract, and maybe some other spare parts, do you think its not possible to acquire another Butler-like player? More importantly, do you think that type of lineup could be effective? The player who comes to mind, without much research, is John Salmons. Can shoot the three pointer, but also is able to shoot off the drive and create some. Ideally, the Mavericks could find another player like him who is can drive a little bit more, but John Salmons with Butler seems to me to be a decent fit.

Now, I guess I'm relying on Butler having a rebound season. Not even 30 yet...its hard to imagine he's on the decline. Knowing this, why would the Mavs just toss him aside like a used tissue? I doubt we could get similar value for him. Like, if he's the key to getting Wade, obviously pull the trigger. But otherwise? I can't see a trade that benefits us while successfully dumping him. I think Wade's a pipedream. I don't see Joe Johnson leaving Atlanta, either...they are on the verge of taking the #3 seed in the East from Boston, and Atlanta is still a young team with a lot of upset. They stand to get a lot better in the next couple years.

As I said before, dumping JET is a much more important thing to do for me. He underperforms in the playoffs, is very streaky, and is not efficient with his shooting. There are times when he struggles knocking down wide open shots. And of course, he's undersized and plays terrible defense. If we can get another 15-17 ppg scorer whose consistent taking it to the basket (in theory) to couple with Butler to go with Dirk...have Dirk as #1 and Butler and Unnamed be 3a and 3b respectively...neither truly a #2 but yet combined taking the secondary scoring load...I honestly believe it might just work. Throw in the increase role of Beaubois (though don't rely on it), maybe add a Big Z type center to pair with Haywood (he's stated he wants to come back and MAvs front office obvously high on him) or at least another center who isn't as offensively incompetent as Damp and I believe this team is much more potent that last year.

[GermanDunk]

What about Timmmah ?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by tcat075

I'm not the basketball mind you are, Jthig. I totally understand that. But it seems to me that this team was the number 2 seed last year and lost in the playoffs due to a disappointing offensive performance, mainly in the early quarters.

It seems to me (and yes, I am an extreme optimist by nature) that the basic guys here should result in a really good team next year with a few key additions. Dirk as the centerpiece, Marion as the lockdown defender, Kidd as the old distributing vet, Butler as one of the two offensive options behind Dirk.

JET needs to go. Between him, Dampier's contract, and maybe some other spare parts, do you think its not possible to acquire another Butler-like player? More importantly, do you think that type of lineup could be effective? The player who comes to mind, without much research, is John Salmons. Can shoot the three pointer, but also is able to shoot off the drive and create some. Ideally, the Mavericks could find another player like him who is can drive a little bit more, but John Salmons with Butler seems to me to be a decent fit.

Now, I guess I'm relying on Butler having a rebound season. Not even 30 yet...its hard to imagine he's on the decline. Knowing this, why would the Mavs just toss him aside like a used tissue? I doubt we could get similar value for him. Like, if he's the key to getting Wade, obviously pull the trigger. But otherwise? I can't see a trade that benefits us while successfully dumping him. I think Wade's a pipedream. I don't see Joe Johnson leaving Atlanta, either...they are on the verge of taking the #3 seed in the East from Boston, and Atlanta is still a young team with a lot of upset. They stand to get a lot better in the next couple years.

As I said before, dumping JET is a much more important thing to do for me. He underperforms in the playoffs, is very streaky, and is not efficient with his shooting. There are times when he struggles knocking down wide open shots. And of course, he's undersized and plays terrible defense. If we can get another 15-17 ppg scorer whose consistent taking it to the basket (in theory) to couple with Butler to go with Dirk...have Dirk as #1 and Butler and Unnamed be 3a and 3b respectively...neither truly a #2 but yet combined taking the secondary scoring load...I honestly believe it might just work. Throw in the increase role of Beaubois (though don't rely on it), maybe add a Big Z type center to pair with Haywood (he's stated he wants to come back and MAvs front office obvously high on him) or at least another center who isn't as offensively incompetent as Damp and I believe this team is much more potent that last year.

In a perfect world I would absolutely rather keep Butler than Jet. I think Butler would make a very nice sixth man, running the offense through him while Dirk was off the court and giving him some run at SF alongside Dirk.

But Caron Butler is going to be significantly more valuable this off season than Jet. In fact Jet is probably still going to have negative trade value. You're going to take back a worse contract or give up something else of value to move Jet.

Butler, otoh, is on the last year of a his deal and can still score from the SF position. If nothing else he's the kind of player that would put up nice numbers for a bad team for a season. I think it's very likely that Caron and Damp move in tandem for a player more impactful than John Salmons.

I absolutely do not believe that the Mavs will push to trade Caron. I simply believe that he will be involved in almost all discussion involving the Mavs. I think that teams will ask for Roddy, and in most cases will be told no and move on to Caron.

[mkat]

i'd take both, but the one thing i really despise in a player is a guy who talks a good game then doesn't show up on the court...Marion and JET are these players. They talk about sucking it up and winning and all they have to do to win, then they go out there and give a subpar effort when it really counts.

that said, at least Butler scores.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by jthig32

In a perfect world I would absolutely rather keep Butler than Jet. I think Butler would make a very nice sixth man, running the offense through him while Dirk was off the court and giving him some run at SF alongside Dirk.

But Caron Butler is going to be significantly more valuable this off season than Jet. In fact Jet is probably still going to have negative trade value. You're going to take back a worse contract or give up something else of value to move Jet.

Butler, otoh, is on the last year of a his deal and can still score from the SF position. If nothing else he's the kind of player that would put up nice numbers for a bad team for a season. I think it's very likely that Caron and Damp move in tandem for a player more impactful than John Salmons.

I absolutely do not believe that the Mavs will push to trade Caron. I simply believe that he will be involved in almost all discussion involving the Mavs. I think that teams will ask for Roddy, and in most cases will be told no and move on to Caron.

When you say someone better than Salmons, who do you have in mind? I'm really doubtful we can get much better than him. Joe Johnson/Dwyane Wade seem like a really long reach to me, and there isn't much a tier between those two teirs (LeBron + Wade; Johnson + others) and Salmons. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by tcat075

When you say someone better than Salmons, who do you have in mind? I'm really doubtful we can get much better than him. Joe Johnson/Dwyane Wade seem like a really long reach to me, and there isn't much a tier between those two teirs (LeBron + Wade; Johnson + others) and Salmons. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

I have no idea at this point, because there's too many variables involved.

But when Stack's contract (which was SIGNIFICANTLY less valuable than Damp's is) and trash nets you Shawn Marion, I'm not sure why anyone would think it's unrealistic to expect Damp to bring an even more impactful player. It's certainly possible that the right situation never materializes, but I feel pretty safe in saying that Damp's contract is going to bring a major rotation player for this team. And maybe I'm underrating Salmons a bit. He was pretty terrible this season before he got to Milwaukee, wasn't he?

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by mkat

i'd take both, but the one thing i really despise in a player is a guy who talks a good game then doesn't show up on the court...Marion and JET are these players. They talk about sucking it up and winning and all they have to do to win, then they go out there and give a subpar effort when it really counts.

that said, at least Butler scores.

I could not possibly disagree more with this. Marion was one of our most consistent players this season. It just so happens that his primary contribution is defense, which is harder to define and remember.

Can you remember even five games this entire season where you thought Marion didn't bring full effort and effectiveness defensively? Because I sure can't.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I have no idea at this point, because there's too many variables involved.

But when Stack's contract (which was SIGNIFICANTLY less valuable than Damp's is) and trash nets you Shawn Marion, I'm not sure why anyone would think it's unrealistic to expect Damp to bring an even more impactful player. It's certainly possible that the right situation never materializes, but I feel pretty safe in saying that Damp's contract is going to bring a major rotation player for this team. And maybe I'm underrating Salmons a bit. He was pretty terrible before he got to Milwaukee this season, wasn't he?

Salmons played really well for Chicago in their playoff push and resulting playoff series with Boston. He was good for most of the year. I remember at the trade deadline in 08-09 I really was wanting the Mavs to trade for him. Didn't happen, and he went to Sacramento. He was OK there, if I recall. And then Milwaukee, where he was great this year, obviously.

And yes, I'm sure I underestimate the Dampier contract. I was onboard with the Stackhouse one, but this one seems too good to be true for some reason.

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by tcat075

Salmons played really well for Chicago in their playoff push and resulting playoff series with Boston. He was good for most of the year. I remember at the trade deadline in 08-09 I really was wanting the Mavs to trade for him. Didn't happen, and he went to Sacramento. He was OK there, if I recall. And then Milwaukee, where he was great this year, obviously.

And yes, I'm sure I underestimate the Dampier contract. I was onboard with the Stackhouse one, but this one seems too good to be true for some reason.

Yeah, I structured my sentence incorrectly on Salmons earlier and changed it after you quoted it. What I meant to say was that I thought Salmons was relatively terrible THIS season before getting to Milwaukee. And I may be wrong on that as well, I'll have to go look. But he was defeinitely pretty darn good last season.

[Zki41]

Salmons is a future JET waiting to happen, especially if he gets a long term, $10+ million dollar contract. Towards the end of his contract, I can see the inconsistency set in. I would take Salmons for MLE type money. But Salmons is not worth Butler or the DUST Chip.

[tcat075]

Guess its time for a brief John Salmons study. I'll compare him to Butler a lot since they are similar players.

Salmons and Butler are both 72% jumper, 28% inside players. Salmons has drawn a few more fouls this year, percentage wise (13% to 11%). He's also shot better, his eFG% being 49% to Butler 47%. Salmons is assisted on about 10% less of his jumpers than Butler, though, implying that he's been more of an iso guy in Milwaukee this season than Butler this year. Of course, Milwaukee has a point guard who is a terrible distributor and no superstar to draw doubles and kick to, so he's had to iso more and overall its more impressive he's shooting a higher percentage.

Butler lives and dies on the 16-23 foot jumper. Salmons, however, mixes those jumpers up with threes and can get inside and takes a lot more 10-15 footers than Butler (Butler .2/.9 per game this year whereas Salmons is .9/2.3 each game this year). This implies he drives and shoots off the dribble more than Butler does. Butler can drive, but if he's driving he's stepping back into the 16-23 foot range and firing.

I've heard Salmons is inconsistant, though. This was a brief summary, I can add more on later if needed.

[grndmstr_c]

I have a hard time seeing Salmons in Dallas. He's not worth Booby, isn't a match for the DUST-chip, I'd expect Milwaukee to match (and hence beat) an MLE offer, and the only real argument that I can see for preferring him over JET is that he's taller.

On the subject of sub-JJ level talents, more generally, it's worth noting that the Mavs have the pieces to be active in the trade market for players currently under contract (read: Iguodala).

[jthig32]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I have a hard time seeing Salmons in Dallas. He's not worth Booby, isn't a match for the DUST-chip, I'd expect Milwaukee to match (and hence beat) an MLE offer, and the only real argument that I can see for preferring him over JET is that he's taller.

On the subject of sub-JJ level talents, more generally, it's worth noting that the Mavs have the pieces to be active in the trade market for players currently under contract (read: Iguodala).

Yup. There's no reason Damp's contract has to be moved in a SnT.

[sefant77]

With Marions contract it would be even hard to dump him for expirings. So there is no trade with Marion that would make us better anyway.

I expect both on the team next year if no big deal happens with Butler.

[mavs777]

Marion we need that defensive stopper and that is him. Think of this starting 5.

PG- Kidd
SG- Wade
SF- Marion
PF- Dirk
C- Haywood

Great slashers in Wade and Marion, also 2 good perimeter defenders in those 2, 2 stars...

[Usually Lurkin]

Originally Posted by jthig32

Even if everything else remains same at the swing positions, I'll take the offense I expect Roddy to provide and keep Marion....

spent significant time guarding Tony Parker over the last half of the series and we barely even mentioned it because it was expected. That's a huge, huge, huge asset.

For me, Roddy went from a great looking prospect to a probable regular contributor and possible big contributor. That's two (or three, even) in the bush to Butler's 1 in the hand of definite regular contributor. I want assurance, not gambles.

I absolutely agree on Marion. We need the designated defender. If we can keep him out there just for that, and build his reputation for that, we can start getting him to cheat more (ala Bowen and Artest), and you can't win a championship without cheating.

[Zki41]

I hope Marion works this summer on finishing around the rim. His effectiveness would increase exponentially if he would just make the layups and garbage points that he has a tenacity for being in position for. There were too many times this season that Marion missed shots within 5 feet. And occasional flub is understandable, but he missed way too many. His defense is a bigger factor though, and outweighs his unpolished offense. I wonder if he exerts too much energy to be able to convert some of the easy buckets he gets an opportunity to make.

[GermanFan]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I don't think they're going to just dump him for anything, but I think it's pretty obvious at this point that he's pretty sub-standard as a SG and does his best work at SF.

I think (hope, maybe) that the Mavs truly value what Marion meant to this team this season. He's not just an elite defender, he's an elite defender that can guard four positions depending on the matchups. A player that can effectively guard Carmelo, Durant, Kobe, Ginobili, Monta Ellis and Tony Parker is awfully rare indeed. That's even harder to replace than a scorer at the swing position. And while it's not really top of mind after the Spurs series, the way we were able to defend elite swing men this season was incredibly refreshing. I don't want to give that up.

If they don't move Butler I expect him to come off the bench next season. But I think the Mavs will make at least one significant trade this off season, and I think it's highly likely that Butler is involved.

thats why i voted for Marion

I guess a package deal to get a nice two would be nice with Butler involved

[mkat]

Originally Posted by jthig32

I could not possibly disagree more with this. Marion was one of our most consistent players this season. It just so happens that his primary contribution is defense, which is harder to define and remember.

Can you remember even five games this entire season where you thought Marion didn't bring full effort and effectiveness defensively? Because I sure can't.

i was talking mostly in the playoffs. he was great regular season. he just seemed to disappear (on both sides of the ball) in the post season.

[BGMaverick9]

If it's between the two, I think you definitely keep Marion more involved because of his defensive abilities. He still can be a major factor in offense, as in a fast break setting. He's just really hot/cold when it comes to his low-post game. When it's working, it really adds another dimension, but it can be crippling when it's not going in the basket.

The idea of moving Butler to the bench is an interesting but potentially a chaotic one if most of the pieces stay in the fold. Roddy is definitely the future and if Butler is going to the bench, they're still going to value Kidd so they could go Kidd/Roddy as the backcourt...which isn't a terrible idea. I can imagine there MIGHT be problems if Jet moves back to 7th-8th man role, I think you're pushing your luck if you have Jet AND Butler take "reduced" roles...especially if it's not leading to success. The first time they hit a 0-2 or 0-3 skid, people are gonna get angry. I think it's 50/50 on him leaving. If he's dealt, he'll be pushed in as part of the DUST-Chip. If not, I really don't see him last past the trade deadline.

I agree with the notion that the fact with Stack's contract + pieces got you Marion...you have to be optimistic that a bigger/better chip can net you something that builds excitement about roster possibilities.

I still think trying to trade Jet is a major focus once they get the DUST issue settled. His value is pretty darn bad and it's going to take something drastic to have a deal that's a win-win from a talent perspective with a dealing shipping Jet out as the primary piece. He's one of the few pieces left of the main core and once Josh was shipped out, IMO, he became the next guy on the chopping block. He DOES need to basically become a 7th or 8th man in the rotation. If you can get stuff out of him, that's great...if not, it's not gonna break you at the knees. It's not necessarily trading for the sake of change, but I'm definitely not being so quick to reject potentially lateral moves in terms of trading him.

[tcat075]

Originally Posted by grndmstr_c

I have a hard time seeing Salmons in Dallas. He's not worth Booby, isn't a match for the DUST-chip, I'd expect Milwaukee to match (and hence beat) an MLE offer, and the only real argument that I can see for preferring him over JET is that he's taller.

On the subject of sub-JJ level talents, more generally, it's worth noting that the Mavs have the pieces to be active in the trade market for players currently under contract (read: Iguodala).

Well, my initial post stated a player along the lines of Salmons. Not Salmons himself. Though I'd take Salmons over JET with little hesitation. Any solid 15-18 ppg shooting guard who's consistant and who can actually shoot threes...I know they don't grow on trees, but this is the type of player we need to be looking at because we all know Johnson/Wade/Bosh are a long shot, at best.

Mike Miller comes to mind, if we could get his head screwed on straight that he's not a point guard but a shooting guard, and get him to start shooting the ball again.

[grndmstr_c]

I'll say this re: Marion v Butler as the starting SF. Plug in someone like Wade or JJ at SG and Marion's the one I want to see out there at tip-off. Not simply because of his defensive abilities, but just as importantly because of his ability to function in an offense playing off the ball.

[grndmstr_c]

Not to make it all about Salmons (because I certainly agree that Dallas needs an upgrade at SG), but I do think you're overrating him if you think he (or players of his caliber) would make much of a difference to Dallas' championship aspirations. Even in Salmon's best year (08/09) his PER has failed to equal the worst PER JET's posted (09/10) (that's going back at least as far as JET's last year in Atl). Consistency's great and all that, but Salmons has only ever been consistently average, and that's not going to cut it.

[kg_veteran]

I just skimmed, so forgive me if I repeat what somebody else has already said.

I think the odds are pretty good that the Mavs try to use Butler in a trade. If they do, all of this discussion is moot. However, if they are able to get a starting guard without dealing Butler, I think a 3 forward rotation of Dirk, Butler, and Marion makes perfect sense. Who starts would probably depend on who's here. I lean more toward starting Butler because he is a two-way player, and Marion really isn't any more.

[bobbyfg7]

Originally Posted by kg_veteran

I just skimmed, so forgive me if I repeat what somebody else has already said.

I think the odds are pretty good that the Mavs try to use Butler in a trade. If they do, all of this discussion is moot. However, if they are able to get a starting guard without dealing Butler, I think a 3 forward rotation of Dirk, Butler, and Marion makes perfect sense. Who starts would probably depend on who's here. I lean more toward starting Butler because he is a two-way player, and Marion really isn't any more.

This was my original thoughts as well. Except I would like to see Butler coming off the bench. Let Marion work with Kidd and the offense can run through Butler when he comes in. That would be a lot of offense off the bench in Terry, Butler, and Roddy B.

[Rick41]

The only thing that got to me about Marion this season is that he missed ALOT of easy buckets, layups etc...

[Underdog]

Marion's contract pretty much guarantees that he's finishing his career in Dallas.

Personally, I'd love to keep both guys, get a legit 2, start Butler at the 3 and make Matrix our 6th Man.

Something like:

Kidd/Roddy
upgrade/Butler
Butler/Marion
Dirk/Marion
Haywood/Damp


EDIT: how magical is that DUST Chip anyway - could we get Iggy without giving anyone up?

[bobbyfg7]

Good point, Rick. So maybe like KG said, completely situational on the starting gig. Marion can start when you need to limit an all-star and you need points off the bench. Butler can start when you need offense from the get go. I can live with that.

Of course, this is all assuming Butler is still here next year.

EDIT: That lineup would do nicely UD....nicely.

[SMC0007]

Originally Posted by Underdog

Marion's contract pretty much guarantees that he's finishing his career in Dallas.

Personally, I'd love to keep both guys, get a legit 2, start Butler at the 3 and make Matrix our 6th Man.

Something like:

Kidd/Roddy
upgrade/Butler
Butler/Marion
Dirk/Marion
Haywood/Damp


EDIT: how magical is that DUST Chip anyway - could we get Iggy without giving anyone up?

I don't think Iggy is good enough. I'd rather give up Butler to get in a deal to get a lock at SG.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by bobbyfg7

Of course, this is all assuming Butler is still here next year.

I won't lose any sleep if we have to give him up to acquire someone like D-Wade or Joe Johnson...

[bobbyfg7]

Originally Posted by Underdog

I won't lose any sleep if we have to give him up to acquire someone like D-Wade or Joe Johnson...

Indeed on Wade. But call me crazy, and I'm sure I'm going to take crap for this, but doesn't JJ seem to quiet down in the playoffs?

Heck, the way Salmons has played the last two seasons in the playoffs makes me think we could just sign him out right and use the infamous DUST chip to get someone else.

Don't get me wrong, JJ >> Salmons. But Salmons just seems to bring his "A" game come playoff time and that is something Dirk and Cuban have been looking for.

Both JJ and Salmons seem to be TO machines however. Thoughts?

[grndmstr_c]

If I'm choosing between Damp+ Butler for Wade or Damp for Iggy, I'll take the former any day. If it's Damp+Butler for JJ or Damp for Iggy I feel pretty comfortable saying that I'd rather have Iggy + Butler than JJ.

[Underdog]

Originally Posted by SMC0007

I don't think Iggy is good enough. I'd rather give up Butler to get in a deal to get a lock at SG.

Subtract LeBron, Wade and Joe Johnson from the equation and tell me who you'd rather have at the 2...

Personally, I think if you can add Iggy (a two-way player who has missed 6 games in 6 seasons) without giving ANYTHING up, you've just gotten significantly better, especially since Butler would be playing his natural position at the 3... We'd still need an upgrade at the 5, but I think that puts us back into contention...