Bad News for Mavs' Fans - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Bayliss · 06-20-2002, 09:34 AM

<< Mavs: Coach Don Nelson said Wang Zhi-Zhi will not play on the Mavericks' summer-league team because of the franchise's promise that Wang would return to China. "That doesn't mean that we don't want to re-sign him," Nelson told the Dallas Morning News. "We do." . . . The team also learned that coveted international free agent Ognjen Askrabic will play for his club team, FMP Zeleznik, for one more season before testing the NBA free-agent route. >>

Dammit... why do we even bother with Wang? Without summer league he isn't going to improve at the rate that we need him to...

Askrabic would be better served playing in the NBA this year instead of honing his skills further in Europe. (Whether he signs with the Mavs or not isn't the question... it boils down to his development and to progress into a quality NBA player you need time against the best. You can't waste another year. One of the reasons why Dirk, Pau, Peja and Hedo have had success is because they came here early. Just think how good Kukoc and Sabonis would've been had they been exposed to NBA talent early. The same applies to Asrabic.

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 09:40 AM

I hear you Bayliss, this is why it frustrates me dealing with these foreign players sometimes. They have obligations they have to honor with their country and unless they come in and have an impact or really want to be here you always deal with them wanting to leave or in Wang's case their country MAKING them come back. The Rockets are going to be PISSED dealing with them and Yao.

MavsFanFinley · 06-20-2002, 09:53 AM

From what I understand, Wang is still going to participate in summer leagues, just not ours. Not sure how much good will come of it, but at least he'll be working with some team.

I said before that I'd like to resign him, but if we lost him I wouldn't be too broken up about it for this reason. How long are we supposed to keep waiting for him to be able to join us for the summer league, training camp or just to be able to play the whole season?

As for Yao...China hasn't put the restrictions on him like they did with Wang. I wouldn't take their word for it, but that isn't my problem.

The Houston Rockets’ attorney Michael Goldberg has returned from China with good news. Goldberg said Wednesday that he was told that 7-foot-5-inch Chinese center Yao Ming would be able to play the entire NBA season and playoffs if the Houston Rockets were to pick him first in the draft.

The Rockets have been seeking assurances that Ming would be available for the entire NBA season and not be recalled to play for the Chinese national team. The Chinese however, wanted assurances that Ming would be available to them for international play. And, Goldberg said Wednesday, "We also assured them that he'd be able to play in the Olympics."

With that part of the negotiations completed, Goldberg said the Rockets were now waiting for a release from FIBA, the international basketball governing body.

The Chinese Basketball Association and Ming’s team, the Shanghai Sharks are working to complete their approval process hopefully leading to the release that would allow him to play in the NBA. "The CBA and the Sharks understand that we have to have the FIBA release in time to make our decisions before the draft," Goldberg said. "The Sharks would be losing their No. 1 player so they wanted to make sure things can be worked out."

And knowing that Askrabic isn't coming this season, wonder who the Mavs will focus on now? I have hard time believing we'll land Kandiman.

Chicago JK · 06-20-2002, 09:57 AM

I am very intrigued by Wang and hopes he comes back next year with the Mavs. Without staying the States though he will never be more than a situational player. Although, if he stays here and works hard I think he is a very interesting player. He has very good court awareness on the court and this is one thing that gets overlooked.

Hoopsmeister · 06-20-2002, 10:44 AM

<< From what I understand, Wang is still going to participate in summer leagues, just not ours. Not sure how much good will come of it, but at least he'll be working with some team. >>

Which is something I have found interesting about his 'disappearance' from the start, and mentioned at the time. By walking off on the Mavs who can now legitimately tell the Chinese they have no control on him, Wang has the capability of participating in the summer league with someone else and getting its benefits. Then he comes back to Dallas next year (he's an rfa--he knows he can't go anywhere else if Dallas doesn't let him and he fired his one leverage to get Dallas to do so, his agent, before making these moves) and Dallas gets him back with the benefits of summer league and without damaging their relationship with China.

I rather wonder if his firing of his agent wasn't something similar.

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 11:00 AM

I think g will be a very good player in a year or two. It is odd that he won't be playing in the summer league. Askarabic not coming is probably due to the buyout request on his contract. Euro teams think they can gouge NBA teams for buyouts. It's rediculous.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 11:27 AM

why would any other team want wang to play on their summer team?..especially since the mavs seem to be willing to match any offers.. and the interest in wang will probably be little enough to where the mavs will have that capability with relative ease

seelenjaeger · 06-20-2002, 11:28 AM

C´mon Doc - thats plain silly.

Those players have CONTRACTS for professional sports. It´s ridiculous to think that "just because NBA is calling" those teams should be obliged to let their players walk for nothing.

It´s just pro-sports, and it´s damn ok that those teams get rewarded for their losses ...

mick · 06-20-2002, 11:43 AM

<< why would any other team want wang to play on their summer team?..especially since the mavs seem to be willing to match any offers.. and the interest in wang will probably be little enough to where the mavs will have that capability with relative ease >>

What if another team wants a "free look" before making an offer? No reason that a S&T couldn't be worked out. If Wang plays for Clipps, GSW/ or Magic in the summer, expect that something is going on behind the scenes.

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 11:49 AM

What if another team wants a "free look" before making an offer? No reason that a S&T couldn't be worked out. If Wang plays for Clipps, GSW/ or Magic in the summer, expect that something is going on behind the scenes.

That's the way I see it. Why WOULDN'T another team want to take a look at him. They probably want to have him come in and work with them. Believe it or not, other teams have more leverage than the Mavs do in trying to sign him. Even though we have the ability to match, Cuban isn't willing to go that deep in his pocket for Wang. It could potentially be the same situation it was with Booth last summer.

MavKikiNYC · 06-20-2002, 11:53 AM

<< ...Those players have CONTRACTS for professional sports. It´s ridiculous to think that "just because NBA is calling" those teams should be obliged to let their players walk for nothing.

It´s just pro-sports, and it´s damn ok that those teams get rewarded for their losses ... >>

Agree. Otherwise the NBA would just start using foreign leagues as an unsubsidized developmental league--like they used to do the NCAA. They have a right to protect their own investments.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 11:53 AM

<< What if another team wants a "free look" before making an offer >>

i guess that could happen, but i would think it would be very unlikely. I also think that many of the people on this board are a bit off on what wang's actual value is.

I would think that few teams would want to deal with a huge headaches of dealing with this situation for a player of wang's capabilities

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 11:55 AM

maybe i'm wrong on this one..but, we'll have to wait and see. if someone is willing to have him take up several minutes a game during the summer league when they could give those minutes to one of their own players, hell..be my guess.

Hoopsmeister · 06-20-2002, 12:03 PM

<< I think g will be a very good player in a year or two. It is odd that he won't be playing in the summer league. Askarabic not coming is probably due to the buyout request on his contract. Euro teams think they can gouge NBA teams for buyouts. It's rediculous. >>

Euro teams know they can't get any more than 350,000 out of NBA teams (the league limit). If they 'gouge' anybody, its the players trying to get out--but as pointed out, those players have signed contracts with the team. The team has every right to a compensatory buyout--especially since if the guy is an NBA prospect, he's probably someone who would be a cornerstone of their team if he honored his contract.

TheKid · 06-20-2002, 12:03 PM

I know people are off with what Wang's value is but for some reason NBA teams LOVE seven footers. We were off with what we thought of Booth last year too, but the Supersonics thought he was he was the answer...

Personally I think Wang won't improve to be much better than he is but that's just my opinion. He serves a purpose though and he is good coming off the bench in particular situations but I don't think he's going to improve much more than he has already.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 12:07 PM

TheKid, I think when you throw in the constant problems with the Chinese in this situation, I believe it lessens his value significantly

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 12:52 PM

C´mon Doc - thats plain silly.

Those players have CONTRACTS for professional sports. It´s ridiculous to think that "just because NBA is calling" those teams should be obliged to let their players walk for nothing.

It´s just pro-sports, and it´s damn ok that those teams get rewarded for their losses ...

That wasn't exactly my point....the Euro teams may have player "X" under contract for say....$100,000 this year. When the NBA comes calling, the team asks for a buyout of $350,000. That is too damn much and it is gouging. If the player wants to move on tot hte BEST league in the world, then I agree, the original team should be compensated...but the new team shouldn't be gouged either. Pay the amount of the contract plus a little extra to make it fair for the original team, but don't expect the NBA team to pay your teams payroll for the next 2 years.....it's too damn much.

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 01:05 PM

WTF? Two of my posts disappeared...

SJ- I don't think that Euro teams should gouge the NBA teams. I totally agree with you that they should be compensated. Let's say player "X" wants to go from the Euro league to the NBA. He has $100,000 and one year lef ton his contract. He should be allowed to(with the original teams permission) buy out his contract. I think ti is not unreasonable to ask for the value ($100,000) plus a little extra for the original team since they will lose an asset. However, Euro teams typically try to gouge the NBA team by asking for $350,000 (for this example). A 350% increase is gouging.

Hoopsmeister · 06-20-2002, 01:06 PM

<< $100,000 this year. When the NBA comes calling, the team asks for a buyout of $350,000. That is too damn much and it is gouging. If the player wants to move on tot hte BEST league in the world, then I agree, the original team should be compensated...but the new team shouldn't be gouged either. Pay the amount of the contract plus a little extra to make it fair for the original team, but don't expect the NBA team to pay your teams payroll for the next 2 years.....it's too damn much. >>

Doc, a lot of those buyouts are fixed in the contract (just like NBA contract) well before the NBA comes calling. If you'll look back at coverage on Gasol in the last draft, everybody knew he was a high pick, but they also knew he had a multi-million dollar buyout with his Euro team and that any team drafting him had to factor its existence into their plans. I know the same is true of Raul Lopez whom the Jazz are waiting on etc.

Given that I know that people like Gasol and Lopez have multimillion dollar buyouts built into their contracts before the player ever declares for the NBA, I think your 100,000 vs 350,000 is just wrong. Clearly, good Euro players in the top leagues (like Spain and Italy) are making millions. It may be a third of what they can make in the NBA, but that is still millions.

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 01:15 PM

Where are all my posts going? I have lost like ten posts today?

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 01:17 PM

the 100,000 - 350,000 thing was just an example since I had no real figures to work with. Putting buyouts in the language of the contract is a good idea, but not all players have that.

Nellie · 06-20-2002, 01:44 PM

<< TheKid, I think when you throw in the constant problems with the Chinese in this situation, I believe it lessens his value significantly >>

True. But some of that is made up for in that Wang is a marketable icon. Whoever lands him will be able to reep the benefits of an increased profit margin on merchandise sold overseas and several billions wanting to watch your team.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 02:08 PM

i agree with that..however, they'll sign wang if he's worth that much monetarily to the team in marketing. if that's their purpose, they'll offer him more than the mavs can ...therefore, it does no good to the mavs for wang to be playing on another teams' summer league team

Hoopsmeister · 06-20-2002, 02:11 PM

From Hoopsworld vis the Lone Mavs Fan Forum:

"That doesn't mean that we don't want to re-sign him," Nelson said Wednesday. "We do.... It's a strange situation where we'd love to have him play on our summer-league team, but we don't want to be misconstrued in China. That [Wang returning to China] was our commitment to them. We've kept all our commitments with them [China]," Nelson added, "I don't see how they could change their opinion of us. He did that on his own." The article also confirms earlier reports that Mark Cuban will tender the necessary qualifying offer to Wang to make him a restricted free agent and retain the right to match any other offers Wang might get that do not have a first year value exceeding the league average salary which will fall somewhere near $4.5 million once final tabulations by the league are complete.

This supports my own theory that Wang going off on his own actually has the tacit blessing of the Mavs--let him get some NBA summer seasoning but doesn't hurt the Mavs relationship with China.

Murphy3 · 06-20-2002, 02:28 PM

which i contend, if the mavs are planning on matching any offers, then there's no reason for any other team to pick him up. now, it might not necessarily be on any NBA's summer league team, but...

seelenjaeger · 06-20-2002, 02:36 PM

Doc - the trading system here in europe in EVERY sports is working completely different than to the NBA system. It´s not based on the earnings of the players, at least not to a certain degree, but to something called Trade Value. If players change their clubs with contracts running it is very usual that their original club gets quite a high fee "just for releasing them".

Those transfer fees go up to around 100 million dollars ... for a single player in soccer for example. It´s just that because the NBA doesnt use it your unfamiliar with it - and therefore call it gauging. But it is indeed how the rest of the world works ...

Drbio · 06-20-2002, 04:34 PM

You are right...haven't heard of that system.