Norm Hitzges' view on the proposed NVE for Ward-Thomas trade - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 10:41 AM

"I love this trade"

Nellie · 06-27-2002, 10:44 AM

I don't know, I think I might be getting cold feet. It seemed like the right thing to do the other day but I'm not sure now. Call it post-draft paranoia.

Drbio · 06-27-2002, 10:45 AM

If we could sub anyone else for Ward I would feel a lot better.

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 10:47 AM

i'm not sure why you're getting cold feet... maybe your feet are just knee jerking a bit
[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

kg_veteran · 06-27-2002, 10:54 AM

My feet are cold too (with regard to Ward). I know the guy's a solid defender, but when it all comes down to it, he really kinda sucks. I'd like a guy there who at least COULD step in and play starter's minutes if Nash goes down.

Nellie · 06-27-2002, 10:54 AM

<< If we could sub anyone else for Ward I would feel a lot better. >>

Good point. Maybe this is what is bothering me about it. Now that I know NY has Frank Williams, Ward doesn't seem nearly appealing enough for me.

Drbio · 06-27-2002, 10:56 AM

kg- that's why I don't feel comfortable with Ward. I don't think he can play the whole game if we need him to. Plus, I just don't like the guy.

MFFL · 06-27-2002, 10:57 AM

I'm not for the deal if Ward is involved. He would be a worse bust than Eisley in the Mavs system.

Hubert Davis/Thomas - YES

Ward/Thomas - NO

kg_veteran · 06-27-2002, 10:58 AM

<< kg- that's why I don't feel comfortable with Ward. I don't think he can play the whole game if we need him to. Plus, I just don't like the guy. >>

Agreed.

I like MFFL's idea. Give me Hubert and Thomas, and I'm actually liking the deal a lot better. Hubert can play some point, is an underrated defender with size, and just doesn't suck as much as Ward.

Thomas/Davis - Yes
Thomas/Ward - No

Drbio · 06-27-2002, 10:59 AM

I would pull the trigger on Thomas/ Davis for NVE.

MFFL · 06-27-2002, 11:02 AM

And I've read in a few places that Jordan is making Hubert Davis available.

Nellie · 06-27-2002, 11:03 AM

I would take Huby or Williams over Ward.

Dooby · 06-27-2002, 11:04 AM

I heard Nellie on Norm on my way back from Court. Who is this 7-Footer we are going to sigh as a free agent? All I know is foreigner; undrafted; knee surgery; athletic; 7 feet tall.

mick · 06-27-2002, 11:06 AM

<< "I love this trade" >>

I like Norm, but he is wrong in this case. I think NVE actually has more value after the draft because several teams still need a PG, or to move their existing PG for an upgrade.

I think NVE is still valuable trade asset, just start thinking in terms of a 3 team trade to get what we need.

Drbio · 06-27-2002, 11:07 AM

you can probably include thin, weak, raw..etc....but I don't have any idea.

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 11:09 AM

y'all seem to fail to understand that the mavs will have the ability to pick up a backup PG with the exception...if they address their interior defensive issues with thomas, backup PG would be the only other issues they have to address

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 11:09 AM

of course...they'd still be able to sign their own players

Maringa · 06-27-2002, 11:20 AM

Your answer.....Lazaros Papadopoulos...He hurt his knee last year and didn't play much. He went undrafted. I think he will be an Evan Eschmeyer type,,,not much better...

FilthyFinMavs · 06-27-2002, 12:26 PM

If we trade Nick a nice thing to do would be to sign Mcinnis because other than BIBBY he is probaly one of the best in the free agent pool. I still think we can get more value then WARD and Kurt Thomas for NVE. We just dont need Ward here and if Mavs do this trade I wouldnt even take Ward. If we could get Sprewell and Thomas in this trade and give up NVE and whoever Ill be happy but if we are going to trade NVE which im not up for doing we should get more than Ward and Kurt. Frank Williams I dont mind either.

kg_veteran · 06-27-2002, 12:28 PM

I'd love to sign McInnis. If you could get him for the exception, you'd have to think about it.

mick · 06-27-2002, 12:33 PM

<< Your answer.....Lazaros Papadopoulos...He hurt his knee last year and didn't play much. He went undrafted. I think he will be an Evan Eschmeyer type,,,not much better... >>

Read All About Him

FilthyFinMavs · 06-27-2002, 12:34 PM

<< I'd love to sign McInnis. If you could get him for the exception, you'd have to think about it. >>

Yea I would love to but do u think Mcinnis would take another backup starting role? Thats the only thing I question other than that It would make sense to trade NVE in this deal for Thomas and any other player but Ward.

madape · 06-27-2002, 01:12 PM

I don't give a crap what trade filler comes along in the trade. The idea is to get Kurt Thomas, and he'd be a stud here. If Ward needs to be included to get the deal done, so be it. I think Tariq Abdul Wahad was getting lonely anyway.

BTW - One of the biggest reasons the Knicks are considering this trade is that they want to get rid of Ward. No Ward, probably no deal. Switching Williams for Ward is impossible from a salary matching standpoint, and doesn't make any sense for the Knicks anyway.

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 01:14 PM

i agree madape.
i'm not sure why so many people aren't willing to add a guy that what be huge in addressing the mavs main need.

the mavs would still have the exception to add a PG if they weren't satisfied with ward..but i have a feeling the combination of ward and AJ would be more than good enough to play 15-18 minutes a game at backup PG.

kg_veteran · 06-27-2002, 01:47 PM

<< I don't give a crap what trade filler comes along in the trade. The idea is to get Kurt Thomas, and he'd be a stud here. >>

I'm sorry, I can handle Murph saying "interior needs" 100 times a day, but I can't handle you saying that Thomas would be a stud here. That's simply untrue. The guy's a pretty decent player and a blue collar worker on defense and on the boards, but stud simply doesn't apply.

The Crippler · 06-27-2002, 01:51 PM

Kurt Thomas is NOT the answer...

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 01:54 PM

Thomas IS as good of an answer for the mavs needs as they'll be able to acquire

Nellie · 06-27-2002, 01:58 PM

<< Thomas IS as good of an answer for the mavs needs as they'll be able to acquire >>

I agree with this only after all hope at Kandi is lost.

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 02:04 PM

well, if you can get kandi for the exception..i'm all for that..but, i don't think it's likely

kg_veteran · 06-27-2002, 02:06 PM

<< Thomas IS as good of an answer for the mavs needs as they'll be able to acquire >>

A bit pessimistic this early in the offseason, don't you think?

madape · 06-27-2002, 02:06 PM

Thomas is strong enough and mean enough to give us a real interior defensive presense at power forward. He'd be the best man-on low post defender the Mavs have had in years. We do not need another shotblocker, we've got Raef and Bradley to shut down rampant layup opportunities. We need a guy that will tear up the boards, and Thomas will give us that. His rebounds per minute average is great, especially considering the way the Knicks slow down the game. Remember when this guy was the leading rebounder in the NCAA while at TCU?

His offensive game is perfect for what the Mavs need at his position. He's got enough of an outside shot where defenders won't play off of him and clog up the lane. He also runs the floor well for a big guy. Remember when this guy was the NCAA leading scorer while at TCU?

Whether he starts or comes of the bench as the sixth man, Thomas is exactly what the Mavs need. The more I think about this deal, the more I become convinced that there is not a single other player that can realistically be aquired for NVE who would be a better fit in Dallas than Kurt Thomas.

Nellie · 06-27-2002, 02:18 PM

Well said Madape, a bit optimistic but there is nothing wrong with that. Thomas would do a good job here, I don't have any doubt about that. I just think the deal needs to be tweaked a little to make it just right. I mentioned in another thread that we ought to force NY to take Bradley at a time that they don't realy have a 5. It might be our ONLY chance to dump Bradley over the next 6 years. I don't realy want Ward but there are other guys on NY, like Shandon Anderson, who are overpaid and Layden might be willing to part with that I wouldn't mind having. Like Murph has said, we can get a PG with the exception so it isn't absolutely neccesary to take on Ward.

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 02:18 PM

am i being pessimistic?
no, not at all..realistic

thomas is a good fit

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 02:26 PM

a great post by the most intelligent writer (next to norm) ever to write at dallasbasketball.com (from Tom...he used to write for the site before taking up writing for an NBA online insiders magazine)

"Uh, Fish?

I don't recall Nick exactly being a defensive stopper against any of the Kings guards either. If anything he was just as soft as Nash even though he went into the series against Sacramento fresher.

If Nick's departure can go toward even a partial solution [i.e. Thomas] of solving the frontcourt problem I too have to cast a vote into that column.

Nick will never be a solution to defending taller guards of opponents. Yes he can score, if we're willing to put up with his shooting % that drags down the overall team performance. Defense is something he will never help.

Finding a taller guard/wind someway to help on defense seems an easier proposition than getting a rebounder/enforcer in the lane and thus another step in the right direction to me even if a small sacrifice at the PG spot is made on this behalf.

Van Exel is also three years older than Nash [maybe closer to 2 1/2] so he's not the long term answer as a back-up that we need to look for and groom.

Next summer the Mavs' need to look at another European guard Sani Becirovic a Slovenian who is 6-5 and plays both PG & SG now for Virtus Bologna. He can shoot, penetrate, and keeps improving on defense every year since he continues to work on it. Ask Donnie about him, you'll see."

kg_veteran · 06-27-2002, 02:38 PM

<< am i being pessimistic?
no, not at all..realistic

thomas is a good fit >>

If your thought is that Thomas is the best we can possibly get, I think that is pessimistic.

I like Kurt, and think that, Madape's assessment of him, while a bit optimistic, is fairly accurate. I think he's a great low-post defender, decent offensive player, and good rebounder. But the Knicks would be the team foolish to pass up on the deal at this point -- not the other way around.

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 02:42 PM

yes, i think Kurt Thomas is a great fit and i also think he's probably the best option the mavs will have this off season

Nellie · 06-27-2002, 02:48 PM

<< yes, i think Kurt Thomas is a great fit and i also think he's probably the best option the mavs will have this off season >>

Not that I realy want to get involved in this argument but this statement is a prediction at this point, not a fact. I say we wait and see on Kandi. If that can't get done, Thomas is an excellent consolation prize.

Murphy3 · 06-27-2002, 02:49 PM

what the hell are we to do here on this site? simply talk about things that have already happened?
of course you have to speculate and use some common sense

kg_veteran · 06-27-2002, 02:50 PM

<< I say we wait and see on Kandi. If that can't get done, Thomas is an excellent consolation prize. >>

I think this is the better position to take. In fact, have we explored all avenues out there in terms of viable trades for NVE? You may be able to (believe it or not, Murph) find a trade partner willing to give more in return than Thomas and Ward. I know that's a shocking concept, but it's true...

Nellie · 06-27-2002, 02:54 PM

<< what the hell are we to do here on this site? simply talk about things that have already happened?
of course you have to speculate and use some common sense >>

I guess I just don't understand what your hurry is and why you think it would be a huge mistake not to do it now.