A prelude to the death of baseball. - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

Drbio · 07-04-2002, 03:05 PM

Thursday, July 4

Players may set strike date at Monday meeting

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ESPN.com news services

A member of the Major League Baseball negotiating team told the Chicago Tribune on Thursday that union negotiators have said they plan to set a strike date at a meeting in Chicago next week.

Earlier reports, including one citing Chicago Cubs catcher Joe Girardi, indicated that players weren't likely to set a hard-and-fast strike date at a meeting of players representatives on Monday. But one player told the Tribune that the players association is concerned that there has been little movement on economic issues since March.

"We've said to them, 'What's the deal?'" one member of the MLB team told the Tribune. "The answer is, 'We're going to Chicago to set a strike date.' "

Girardi said Tuesday he doesn't think players will set a strike date Monday, but if the players don't strike before the end of the season, he expects management to lock out the players in the spring.

"We keep making proposals, and they have no response," Selig said. "There is just no response. Our guys are frustrated. ... The magnitude of this is frightening."

The owners want to reduce the disparity in revenues between clubs and curb salaries. Baseball has been hit by eight work stoppages in its history.

"It's the old thing," one highly placed MLB executive told the newspaper. "They think they can walk; then we'll blink and fold."

One owners representative said they remain united.

"Selig, no matter how much they're throwing at him, he won't move," said the MLB executive.

"I would just hope in the coming weeks and months we have a chance to make a deal," Selig said Wednesday. "We need a deal. ... I remember '94-95, trying to come back, and, oh, what a nightmare."

During negotiations in June, the sides mostly addressed secondary issues. In an attempt to get talks moving, owners made a series of small concessions. But in the last year, the union has moved only from 20 to 22.5 percent on revenue sharing -- owners are seeking 50 percent -- and hasn't acknowledged the luxury-tax issue. It made its last counterproposals on core issues in March.

Union head Donald Fehr has said the strike is a last resort. In recent days, he has been saying it may be the only choice players have left; otherwise owners will declare an impasse in negotiations after the World Series, which would give them the right to impose new work rules.

The players fear being locked out after the World Series.

"Everybody needs to stop worrying about the politics and make a deal," Selig said. "We can make one. ... The whole world knows the system has to be changed. There's enough revenue here ... where we ought to be able to do the things we have to do and move on."

Murphy3 · 07-04-2002, 06:38 PM

the biggest problem with baseball... the players fight as one with their union..

the owners can't get together and decide what they want....

as long as the owners have no idea what they are looking for other than more money, then they'll never resolve the situation

Drbio · 07-04-2002, 07:46 PM

The biggest problem is that the players are a bunch of greedy bastards.

Murphy3 · 07-04-2002, 09:54 PM

sure..the players are greedy..but the owners were more than willing to pay them more and more money.

what was nolan ryan going to do when he received the first million dollar contract.. was he not gonna play anywhere unless he got that million?

was a-rod going to retire unless he received 25 million?

yeah, the players need to give in some at this point so the issues that baseball is dealing with gets resolved..

but before any issues get resolved, the owners must come together as a group and decide what they'd like to get accomplished before they can realistically start to talk with the players' union

Drbio · 07-04-2002, 10:14 PM

I put the latest labor issues firmly on the shoulders of the players. I have sided with them (kind of) in the past. Not this time. This time they are are just full of the proverbial shit.

Murphy3 · 07-04-2002, 10:29 PM

how can you put it firmly on the players?
that doesn't add up. sure, they must shoulder some of the blame however, the owner can't even get together to figure out what changes they'd like to make

do they want more revenue sharing? hell, they don't know. Do they want to contract? hell, they don't know. Are the losing money? hell, they don't know..they claim the are but according to forbes, they aren't... who do you believe? can you believe the owners? no..you can't.

there's enough blame to go around. However, it's difficult to blame the players for taking money that owners were more than wililng to give them.

sure, i want the players to make some concessions now. Why should they make concessions? Because the owners didn't have their shit together for the past 20-30 years and let things get out of control. You have a select group of owners that are fine with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

Until the owners unite to find some common ground, there's absolutely no chance things will be resolved.

yes, their's enough blame to go around..

Drbio · 07-04-2002, 10:36 PM

Make no mistake about it. Both sides are culpable. However, the players refuse to address revenue sharing and every other tatctic that has saved the other sports leagues. They demand higher base salaries, and refuse to give an inch on any issue. F*ck the players and that asshole Don Fehr.

Murphy3 · 07-04-2002, 10:41 PM

sure..the players must give in now.
i'm not arguing that.

however, it doesn't matter if they are willing to give in at this point because the owners cannot get their shit together.

there needs to be some sort of cap with a minimum and maximum that can be spent by teams...

something like 50 millino bottom and 80 million top.
to do so, the owners would need to agree on revenue sharing initially and THEN, the players would need to agree upon it.

there's sooo many issues and the owners inability to get on the same page only makes the players' union stronger.

reeds · 07-05-2002, 08:33 PM

it sounds silly-but the union is TOO strong. They refuse to give in on almost any issue. If that attitude continues, it will kill the game. I hate to side with owners, because they are much richer than the players, but I have to lean in the owners direction in baseball. There needs to be a cap- football and basketball have them, whats the big freaking deal. Or revenue sharing has to be a bit more sharing of the pie- screw it- get the deal done. NO one is starving here- except for us fans. And trust me- if there is another strike- there will be less and less of "us fans".

Murphy3 · 07-05-2002, 08:34 PM

sure..the union IS too strong.
why did they get that way?
the owners have had absolutely no clue as to what they were doing for years

Drbio · 07-05-2002, 09:28 PM

It is the greedy ass players. I'm sorry if they can't live on an average salary of over 2 million per year. Fuck 'em. If they strike I will NEVER go back to a mlb game again. I'll just focus on the college game. It's better anyways.

reeds · 07-05-2002, 11:32 PM

ya, the players better think long and hard before they strike again- because fans like us have had enough of this shit. the straw that broke the camels back? I think so...

MavKikiNYC · 07-06-2002, 07:13 AM

And there's always the WNBA to watch....

Hoopsmeister · 07-06-2002, 09:56 AM

<< If that attitude continues, it will kill the game. >>

From your mouth to Fate's ear.

Drbio · 07-06-2002, 03:39 PM

Not to beat a dead horse here, but baseball needs fans like me. I have been to Rangers games every stinking year since they moved to Arlington...EVERY year (even when we lived in Japan!!!). I've (or my dad) held season tickets for the majority of those years. I buy the stuff. My kids wear the stuff. My dad bought the stuff. I wear the stuff. I watch religiously on the TV when I can't attend the games. I donate my tickets to games to charities to ensure seats aren't empty. I buy programs...shitloads of decker dogs....and wash them down with ice cold beers. I own a closet full of shirts from the ballpark stores. A lot of my expendable cash goes to MLB (and the Mavs, but that is another issue). My dad took me to games, I take my kids to games, and I hope one day I can take my grandkids to games...but if those selfish bastards strike one more damn time.....I will never set foot in a major league park again. Both owners and players extoll the pain of the fans as they shit on our heads while their greed blinds them to the source of their income....US! Well that well has now run dry. I hope a MLB player, owner, whatever sees this....I am not the minority in the kingdom of fans. I am the fan that pays the bills. If you strike...you can kiss my ass and understand that you will have received my last dollar.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img] And players...understand that we dont give a shit if you feel that you aren't getting enough money when the average salary is now over 2 million per year. Try a real job. Get off your high fucking horse and meet the owners for once in the damn middle. You greed raises ticket prices and understand that season tickets at the college games are cheaper and as of late more enjoyable anyway. My rant is now done. You may return to your regularly scheduled bullshitting.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-disgusted.gif[/img][img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/img]

TheKid · 07-08-2002, 01:18 PM

Doc, I understand your frustration and I would be pissed too, but the problem is the fans will come back.. THEY ALWAYS come back... (Maybe it's because of the WNBA that they'll come back)

However the problem in these negotiations are exactly what Murph said, the owners need to get a plan and come to the table TOGETHER.. Baseball does need a cap without question. Owners like Steinbrenner doesn't want a cap because he can find ways to make money to pay his players REGARDLESS of what his payroll is.. These owners need to come sit down and say, this is what we're doing and it's going to be like this. Either the players will accept or not accept. Maybe in the end the owners will have to bend a little to the side of the players which is fine too, but until they KNOW what they need to do and get it together, the players will keep the upper hand.

Fidel · 07-08-2002, 07:17 PM

Doc you should start some kind of mailing action with that post above. I don´t care enough for MLB, but if something like that (a strike, and than another strike) would happen to german soccer my reaction would be pretty much the same like yours now.

Drbio · 07-08-2002, 10:39 PM

Players prepare for stoppage, don't set strike date

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ESPN.com news services

ROSEMONT, Ill. -- The executive board of the baseball players' union failed to set a strike date Monday but will ask major leaguers for the authority to call the sport's ninth work stoppage since 1972.

Members of the union's executive board, meeting on the day before the All-Star Game, left a hotel near Chicago's O'Hare International Airport saying they will go back to their teammates. Philadelphia outfielder Doug Glanville said that because of the uncertain position, it was wise to "prepare for the worst.''

After the expiration of the previous labor deal Nov. 7, owners proposed economic changes that would slow salary growth. Players are worried that as negotiations drag on into the fall, owners may try to unilaterally change work rules or lock out players, freezing offseason signings and trades.

"From the players' standpoint, a strike is a last resort,'' union head Donald Fehr said. "It would not be entered into unless the players feel they had no other viable option, and it is our hope over the next few weeks we will be able to have the kinds of serious and substantive discussions with major league owners we have heretofore been unable to have, and will resolve these issues.''

Gene Orza, the associate general counsel of the players association, told ESPN's Karl Ravech that when and if union executives decide on a strike date they will then take that date to the players for approval. Twins representative Denny Hocking told ESPN that the union still believes it can negotiate a collective bargaining agreement with the owners.

Management reacted positively to the union's decision.

"I think it's good that they didn't set a date,'' said Rob Manfred, the owners' top labor lawyer. "We've tried to send a signal that we'd like to get this resolved at the table.''

During a five-hour session, Fehr briefed players on the slow-moving talks, which are scheduled to resume Thursday in New York.

"Hopefully this will light a fire under them to get negotiations going,'' Chicago White Sox pitcher Kelly Wunsch said. "Right now we seem to be in a holding pattern. We want to find out exactly what the points of contention are.''

Owners have proposed to increase the percentage of local revenue each team would share, from 20 percent to 50 percent, and a 50 percent tax on the portions of payrolls above $98 million, which combined would slow the increase in salaries. They have skyrocketed from an average of $51,500 in 1976 to $2.38 million on Opening Day this year.

Owners say only the large-market teams can win, and that more revenue sharing and a drag on salaries is needed to restore competitive balance.

"Guys have paid the price for you,'' Cleveland pitcher Paul Shuey said. "If it comes to that, you pay the price for the future.''

Fehr and players said setting a strike date was never on Monday's agenda.

"That was never the purpose of the meeting, nor was it the result of the meeting,'' he said. "We did, of course, discuss all options for the future but no action in that regard was taken.''

Fehr has met with seven of the 30 teams and will continue his discussions. Player representatives will confer with teammates.

"There will be discussions at the individual club level over the next couple of weeks,'' Fehr said.

Players hope their move Monday will spur the owners to negotiate.

"The owners should say since the players didn't set a strike date, let's get something done,'' Minnesota's Denny Hocking said.

That is similar to what happened eight years ago, when the union's executive board met in Pittsburgh on the day before the All-Star Game. The executive board then held a conference call 17 days later and set a strike for Aug. 12. The strike lasted until the following April and wiped out the World Series for the first time since 1904.

Players also discussed the owners' proposal to test for steroid use and said they would try to get a sense from their teammates on what the union's position should be. Fehr didn't give any specifics.

"It's a serious issue. It will be handled seriously and it will be handled in bargaining,'' he said.

Fehr said he thinks the sides could agree to a worldwide draft that covers all amateur players, an expansion of the current draft, which applies primarily to those in the United States and Canada.

He detailed the difference the sides have on revenue sharing, saying that using 2001 figures the clubs would like to increase the total from $167 million to $300 million and that the union would like it to be at about $230 million.

He also detailed the union's distaste for a luxury tax, which even teams readily admit would cause teams not to sign players they would without the limitation.

"A luxury tax is a significant penalty, because somebody hired someone,'' he said. "If you think about it that way, that's a pretty strange thing to do in the United States of America.''

Fehr scoffed by management's claim that the union has not responded to the owners' proposals.

"We have bargaining,'' he said, "and they do public relations.''

Murphy3 · 07-09-2002, 07:50 AM

it's a good sign that they didn't set a date.. i'm at least a bit encouraged by this
now, it's time for the owners to step up and take a step in the right direction

Dooby · 07-09-2002, 09:06 AM

Oh they set a date, alright. They just didn't set "set" a date. By the first date back after the break, every player will know the strike date. At least, that is what I suspect.

Murphy3 · 07-09-2002, 09:11 AM

maybe so..maybe not
i don't actually think the players want to strike... the owners would love for them to strike and for the players to look worse than the owners for a change

Drbio · 07-09-2002, 04:33 PM

The players reps were sent back to their teams to vote on which of a series of dates to select for a proposed strike. The players will not allow the season to end without striking or having a new agreement. Otherwise the owners can declare an impasse. If the players would just this once show that they were sincere and play out the year, the fans would flock back to them. Otherwise ti sits firmly on them.

Drbio · 07-10-2002, 11:10 PM

Barry Bonds was just on Leno. He said that he is afraid the players were not going to make people happy next week. He feels like they are striking apparently. I am guessing the players will announce a strike date next week. Bonds said he hopes not, but it's likely.

Then he said some bullshit about it not hurting the game. Whatever.