Who are the superstars in the NBA? - Dallas-Mavs.com Forums

MFFL · 05-23-2001, 12:21 AM

I tried really hard to think of a definition of a superstar. I couldn't. The closest I could come up with would be the 10 best players in the NBA. Can you be a superstar without being one of the ten best? Maybe.

My top 5
1) Shaq
2) Duncan
3) Kobe
4) Garnett
5) Iverson

My next five are not in any particular order
Grant Hill
Vince Carter
McGrady
Webber
Kidd

I would put Dirk and Finley in the top 20. I would call them stars, but not superstars.

scooterj5 · 05-23-2001, 01:59 AM

Stars, superstars who cares?

Murphy3 · 05-23-2001, 08:14 AM

apparently, alot of people care scooter

MavsFanFinley · 05-23-2001, 10:50 AM

I agree with most of your list MFFL but Im not sold on McGrady being a superstar--yet. I'd like to see Grant Hill come back before I keep that label on him as well.

And no I have nothing agaisnt the Orlando Magic [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

LonestarROB · 05-23-2001, 10:51 AM

Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, and as much as it pains me to say it, Kobe. That's it IMO.

Murphy3 · 05-23-2001, 10:53 AM

iverson would be hard to keep off of the list, as much as i despise him

TheKid · 05-23-2001, 12:14 PM

I'm not willing to call Kobe a superstar yet. I just can't label him that as long as he's on the same court with Shaq. I would like to see him perform at the level he performs at without Shaq. However the rest of your list I have to agree with, except I would take Grant Hill off of that list also.

Big Boy Laroux · 05-23-2001, 12:55 PM

kobe is a superstar because the nba markets him as one.

i'm telling you, put fin or dirk in some commercials, and they're the best thing since sliced bread.

TheKid · 05-23-2001, 01:04 PM

Thank you, and that was my point all along! Believe this, Dirk is emerging at the right time. Dallas will be on national TV more next year and DIRK will become the next superstar. DESERVEDLY SO, if he continues to play as he did this year. That has been my point all along.

Big Boy Laroux · 05-23-2001, 01:21 PM

i can tell you one thing i do not want. i do not want dirk marketed as the "great white hope." he's a great ball player, and i hope it can be left at that.

dallaslaker · 05-23-2001, 01:25 PM

I don't see Dirk or Finley being marketed as much as Shaq, Kobe, Garnet, etc. The problem is that these guys are not the good-looking, well-spoken type like MJ, Kobe, and the one who started it all, Magic. I don't see these guys making commercials like Allan Houston or Webber. English is still an abvious second language to Dirk and Finley doesn't have the playboy looks. If you're gonna put someone on TV in front of millions of people, they are going to have to look good.

dallaslaker · 05-23-2001, 01:26 PM

if I confused anyone... "these guys" meaning Dirk and Fin.

abvious = obvious

OK, I'll hire a secretary to proof-read all of my posts from now on!

TheKid · 05-23-2001, 02:40 PM

You may be on to something Dallas Laker. Never thought of that, the only thing is Bird was a superstar too, and he didn't speak that well and he sure as hell wasn't good looking. However I guess he was the exception to the rule.

Murphy3 · 05-23-2001, 02:42 PM

A big reason why dirk and fin aren't superstars is because neither of them are good enough players yet. i may be on to something also

Big Boy Laroux · 05-23-2001, 02:48 PM

way to pat yourself on the back, murph...

(DJ! can we get some smilies with rolling eyes? you know, for sarcastic posts?)

LonestarROB · 05-23-2001, 05:04 PM

hehe [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

reeds · 05-23-2001, 05:36 PM

I cant argue with your top five MFFL, in fact, id keep em right in that order also.

"Kobe is a superstar because the NBA markets him as a superstar"? That may be the funniest thing ive heard on this board yet. Of course the NBA markets its stars- and they are good at it too I might add. But the NBA doesnt make KOBE jump better than 99.9%of the world,shoot,drive,dribble, create,score and dominate!!! That is plain STUPID. That is GOD given talent. And who right now has more RAW talent than KOBE? A more balance all around game? I gotta sit down and read this..This outta be good... Give up...He is a superstar with the NBA marketing him as one or without them...PERIOD!!! IM the one who has always said there will never be another JORDAN- and I'll stick to that statement. But- the next closest thing out there right now is....... KOBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

turbo.mav · 05-23-2001, 06:59 PM

n therte

giostar · 05-23-2001, 07:29 PM

Personally... I'd take Vince and Iverson over Kobe though as a guard... mainly cause I hate the lakers and he plays for them, so I dont like him... but do think he's real good. But all 3 are Superstars. You can't stop them, only hope to contain them.

What about these players... are they superstars?
Zo Mourning... remember he was hurt this year.
Steve Francis
Hubert Davis [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

MFFL · 05-23-2001, 07:37 PM

I like Mourning but I put him in the same range with Finely and Dirk - a star. Francis is a potential superstar but his team HAS to be in the playoffs for him to make that jump IMO.

Hales233 · 05-23-2001, 07:48 PM

Mourning is a superstar, without a doubt.

MavsFanFinley · 05-23-2001, 07:50 PM

I'd have to lump Mourning in with Grant Hill...I need to see how they recover from their respective injuries to see if they can retain their superstar status.

Big Boy Laroux · 05-24-2001, 08:53 AM

the nba does market kobe as a superstar, as well as all the other companies he endorses. does he deserve the endorsements? of course he does! he's an amazing player.

but if the nba marketed him as shaq's sidekick, we'd be comparing him to pippen, not jordan.

and everyone (well, most) in the nba is a great athlete. they can jump high, run fast, shoot well. i really don't see kobe being above and beyond anyone in the league with his athleticism.

i also have a question. what % of kobe's points come from the line? superstars get the calls, we all know that. since he's being marketed as the Heir to Air, i'd be willing to bet he gets all kinds of crazy calls (and in the laker games i've watchd, he does).

Murphy3 · 05-24-2001, 09:21 AM

guys that average about as much, as much, or more points don't get marketed like pippen was with jordan.

Murphy3 · 05-24-2001, 09:26 AM

kobe averaged 28.5 points a game this year,
right around 7 of those points per game came from the line.
a good reason to why he gets to the line alot is because he drives to the basket.
regardless, even without free throws, he still averaged 21.5 points a game.

TheKid · 05-24-2001, 09:32 AM

Endorsement people give the people what they want. For instance a long part of Mitch Richmond's career he was arguably the second best shooting guard in the NBA. (Behind Jordan of course) However he wasn't getting any NATIONAL endorsements, so no one was willing to give him his props. The man was unstoppable too. You're talking about a player that until he went to Washington did not average UNDER 22 points a game in his career! The only difference in the first five years of Kobe's career is he's won a title. However I'd be willing to bet if he didn't play with Shaq he wouldn't have won a title. He still would be putting up impressive numbers though, and he would still have the endorsements and he would still be considered a "superstar" in the eyes of a lot of people off of talent. That's why I say alot of people base SUPERSTAR status off of perception compared to what's actually being done on the court.

Kobe's numbers through his career so far are:

PPG: 18.5
Asst: 3.4
St: 1.2
TO: 4.4
Blk: 0.7
FGP: 45%
3P%: 32.5%
FTP: 83%

Mitch Richmond's numbers for the first five years of his career:

PPG: 22.5
Asst: 4.2
St: 1.4
TO: 4.0
Blk: 0.3
FGP: 48%
3P%: 36%
FTP: 83%

Richmond wasn't considered a superstar then. Now could it have been because he was in the league when the league had many superstars at the time or is it because he wasn't "MARKETED" as such. Just so you know at the time, there were only two better shooting guards than Richmond statistically, Jordan and Drexler.

Big Boy Laroux · 05-24-2001, 09:33 AM

i know he's a great player, but he's been marketed as the next jordan since he came into the league.

Murphy3 · 05-24-2001, 09:37 AM

you're forgetting, kobe is 22.
a key part of all the marketing has to do with his age and him coming straight out of high school. how long do you wait before calling kobe a superstar?
nobody is saying, "wow, look at kobe, he's 22 and he's already had a fabulous hall of fame career." it's, this guy is 22 and look at the numbers he's putting up already. big difference. you might need to find someone else to compare kobe to.

TheKid · 05-24-2001, 09:55 AM

Also, playing on a team with a force like Shaq. That DEFINATELY shouldn't go unnoticed. I'm not saying the guy is NOT a phenomenal talent because he is. I'm just saying I think there are a lot of other players if put in HIS situation would do what he's doing also.

Let's put it this way, you're a Dirk fan, you mean to tell me Dirk wouldn't put up BETTER numbers (offensively) than Kobe has if he played with someone like Shaq? HELL YEAH he would, the only thing Dirk probably wouldn't be as good as Kobe is on the defensive end.

giostar · 05-24-2001, 07:06 PM

Anfernee Hardaway couldn't post those numbers when he played with Shaq... And I don't see other players on the Lakers now posting monster numbers... not even respectable numbers.

Ohhh... and my NBA2K1 dreamcast game has Kobe listed as the best player on the game... right besides Garnett. In front of Shaq. If Dreamcast says it, its gotta be true. Just look they are going out of buisness, what do they have to loose?

Murphy3 · 05-24-2001, 10:50 PM

no, i don't think dirk would put up 28.5 a game, or at least i don't think he would have matched kobe's scoring numbers this year.

Fidel · 05-25-2001, 01:06 AM

Dirk would definitely not have put up the numbers Kobe has this year. Perhaps in a few years he could be that good. But right now Kobe is clearly ahead of Dirk.

Flying Tiger · 05-25-2001, 01:08 AM

I would like to post here that there is no concreate definition of a superstar, so anyone can be a superstar in someone's eyes.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-happy.gif[/img]

scooterj5 · 05-25-2001, 08:17 AM

yes that's what I meant

Murphy3 · 05-25-2001, 08:30 AM

that's fine, but some people throw around the term superstar way too much then.
sorry, if you think finley's a superstar,then he's about the 20-30th best superstar in the nba

TheKid · 05-25-2001, 10:06 AM

Ok now I'm confused.. I've heard people say on this board, Kobe is "slightly" better than Finley however everyone would prefer to have Finley over Kobe. Then everyone says, Dirk should be the number one option over Finley. Saying Dirk has CLEARLY established himself as the better offensive weapon. Now people are saying, Kobe is clearly ahead of Dirk or Dirk is not on his level. However all the posts I've read, people are saying Dirk could score 28-30 but then say there's no way he could put up 28 points on a team that would TRULY allow him to score at will from the perimeter. When Shaq would be out, he would have free reign in the low post.

Also, the reason no one else on that team could have stepped up to 28 points a game when Kobe was out was because no one else on that team is an exceptional talent. Rick Fox, Horry, Fisher, Grant, Harper, George and who ever else is on that team are even CLOSE to Dirk or Kobe talent wise. The fact those guys are even able to perform is because Shaq is there. So when you put an exceptional talent with him, they're going to flourish.

That makes no sense to me. This I do know, and I don't care what anyone thinks, if Fin was on the team with Shaq, he would be able to score 28 points. There's a big difference when you have his talent and you're not the focal point of the defense. I personally believe Dirk would be able to score 28 points also. My point is, I'd be willing to bet, if you took Shaq out of the mix, Kobe probably would average 30 points a game, I would bet my life he would shoot under 40% from the field doing it.

As far as what you said Scooter, you're right. It's whoever you think is a superstar is. I'm sure Mavinator thinks Bradley is a superstar. While the majority of the world would argue that, it is in the eyes of the beholder. As someone said on here, it's when that particular player goes somewhere you become a fan.

Murphy3 · 05-25-2001, 10:18 AM

no doubt in my mind, give me kobe over finley.
and if you'd bet your life he'd shoot under 40% averaging 30 without shaq, well, it was nice knowing you

TheKid · 05-25-2001, 10:25 AM

When Shaq is out of the game, Kobe takes so many bad shots, it's amazing. During the stretch this year when Shaq was out, Kobe shot around 41%. I'm not quite sure, but I know it was in that area. Over an entire season, without question, that percentage would drop. NOW if they brought in someone who could help take some of the load off of Kobe's shoulders, then maybe not, but if the Lakers kept the team they had, and let's say Shaq went down for three months. That team would be slightly above .500 and Kobe would probably score 30 points and shoot terrible from the field. It's possible, just look at Iverson.

LAM0015 · 05-25-2001, 11:05 AM

Kobe is overrated as well. Kobe and Finley should be forced to play on the same team to see which one whines more about not getting enough shots. They would be at each others throats.

TheKid · 05-25-2001, 11:33 AM

Fin NEVER bitches, don't get him mixed up with Kobe.